Ordinary Kids and High School Plans

[creekland]

They are taking advantage of this childless stage of life to explore the world and make it a better place. Are they self-supporting adults? No. Are they accomplishing something? Yes. Are they happy with what they are doing? Yes. Some of them may even do this well into their thirties.

 

Nan

 

And this is why I said I see this as more for the wealthy. We need/want our kids to be self-supporting adults vs those who are off doing what they want while being supported by us (short of schooling). If money were truly no object for us, then I suppose they could be supported forever, but honestly, I think I would still want them to be able to do something self-supporting by the time they were in their upper 20s or 30s.

 

It's not a bad path. It's just not one the majority of parents/students around here could viably choose. Many around here need jobs while in high school to help with bills esp if they want their own car, but not limited to that. I know kids who work to help pay for groceries or internet access (for school more than play).

[Nan in Mass]

And this is why I said I see this as more for the wealthy. We need/want our kids to be self-supporting adults vs those who are off doing what they want while being supported by us (short of schooling). If money were truly no object for us, then I suppose they could be supported forever, but honestly, I think I would still want them to be able to do something self-supporting by the time they were in their upper 20s or 30s.

 

It's not a bad path. It's just not one the majority of parents/students around here could viably choose. Many around here need jobs while in high school to help with bills esp if they want their own car, but not limited to that. I know kids who work to help pay for groceries or internet access (for school more than play).

 

A few of the younger ones (think still in high school) are still being supported by their family but the rest are not. They will work a job temporarily to get money, then take off and spend it. When they are working, they find someplace free to live, someplace other than their families, usually. Some recent jobs of the last batch I talked to were: organizing a rich person's personal library (and living in the house), doing construction in Australia, writing freelance articles (that person had graduated from college), fixing up somebody's new house (living there while working on it), and child care (living in). Friends knew somebody who knew somebody who needed something done. Definately not rich GRIN.

 

Nan

Edited March 30, 2012 by Nan in Mass

[4wildberrys]

My goal homeschooling was always College Prep----until my dd got to the high school years and I realized that it was NOT working the way my well laid plans said it should! I still pushed her hard to complete challenging subjects, and still had her take that darn ACT. But in the end, amid all the pressure and stress of trying to complete all those requirements and watching all her friends go off to college and all the questions of 'So where are you going to college?'----she is doing online college and LOVING it!! She is working and paying for it all on her own. At first, this was a tough decision. after all we live in a very small, isolated town far removed from any cc's with terrible employment opportunities. The default for ALL kids around here is 'Get a loan, go to college'. There were problems right at the start forums though mainly, food intolerance issues that would have made dorm living and cafeteria eating 100% out of the question. Add to that one income homeschooling that has not allowed us to save to pay our kids way in college and our reluctance to allow our kids to get into possibly major debt before the age of 22--and we had our decision ready made for us.

 

Her best homeschooling friend did the typical go off to college-----and dd is quite dismayed to learn that the 'liberalizing' we studied That happens in college is alive and well-----her friend is now enjoying the 4 years of partying and debauchery she missed being a homeschooled----and she gets to pay it off after she graduates and finds a job! All the kids she knows who went off to college regularly post their partying and debauchery of their wild college and dorm living on FB-whether homeschooled or not. Dd is now very happy with her decision and has met a wonderful young man who also decided not to return to his college for the same reasons. They both work and do online school----and don't drink, do drugs and engage in the promiscuity that pretty much ALL the rest of their friends are doing right now. They feel years older than their same age friends.

 

Right now with ds 2 years away from this decision, we now are very pro online schooling either through College Plus or independently. Our new mantra is---"Dont do college unless you have a direction and goal----it's too expensive to toy with and waste 4years partying! Just be aware that your employment opportunities are very limited without a degree.". We are NO longer in favor of college after high school default obviously :001_huh:

[creekland]

A few of the younger ones (think still in high school) are still being supported by their family but the rest are not. They will work a job temporarily to get money, then take off and spend it. When they are working, they find someplace free to live, someplace other than their families, usually. Some recent jobs of the last batch I talked to were: organizing a rich person's personal library (and living in the house), doing construction in Australia, writing freelance articles (that person had graduated from college), fixing up somebody's new house (living there while working on it), and child care (living in). Friends knew somebody who knew somebody who needed something done. Definately not rich GRIN.

 

Nan

 

If they aren't being financially supported by their parents, I would consider them self-supporting... even if not in a typical job. I know of one teen who headed off to see the world - occasionally getting jobs - but mom and dad still regularly sent money and she used their credit card. That's what was in my mind. Her dad was a doctor and mom was a consultant.

 

All the kids she knows who went off to college regularly post their partying and debauchery of their wild college and dorm living on FB-whether homeschooled or not.

 

Just wanted to point out that my oldest has been in college for two years now and has plenty of friends who are not the partying/debauchery type.

 

I also went to college and wasn't the partying/debauchery type and had plenty of friends (met hubby there too - he also wasn't the partying type).

 

It very much depends upon the person.

[Nan in Mass]

If they aren't being financially supported by their parents, I would consider them self-supporting... even if not in a typical job. I know of one teen who headed off to see the world - occasionally getting jobs - but mom and dad still regularly sent money and she used their credit card. That's what was in my mind. Her dad was a doctor and mom was a consultant.

 

I know that sort of explorer, too, including my own. I just happen to know far more who are doing it totally on their own. Some have family situations that have forced them to be on their own and wanting to make the world a better place for their own future children. Some are just adventurous. The just-adventurous ones do tend to go back home to visit from time to time. I am fascinated by the contrast between these young people and the hopeless waiting ones at home, so I have gone out of my way to find out how exactly they are managing to live. At first, I, too, assumed they had family support. They don't. They just somehow have more... oomph?... than some of my oldest's friends. Or they came from worse places.

 

Nan

[Tammyla]

I often swing between feeling encouraged and stressed reading many threads, but the positive out shines the negative. I think some days, I'd crawl into a hole without the board.

[Lori D.]

But I did want to correct the impression that the above programs were "stepping stones" to the military.

 

 

Sebastian, thanks so much for the corrections/additions; the Military is one area I know little about, so I appreciate you posting this info! My hope is that we can all post about what options we know of to help one another! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Lori D.]

Well, my kids are going to 4 year schools. I'll freely admit bias when it comes to my own, plus they are all academically capable and eager to go. Were either of the latter two not true, I'd re-evaluate.

 

 

I'm right there with you, Creekland, in desiring 4-year degrees -- or more! -- for our DSs! And while I'm wishing -- in stable fields for which our society will always have a need. ;)

 

BUT, I am having to readjust my expectations. Younger DS has mild LDs and NO interest. Plus in the career testing we've done, he is a great "idea man", but is not also gifted with perseverance; he moves from idea to idea. That is an incredible asset to companies, to have someone who can think outside the box and come up with innovations, invent things, literally think up new products and services -- BUT, that is a hard job to find or prepare for. I suspect he is going to have an ever-changing career that will look like a bit of a wild and bumpy ride to the rest of us! :eek:

 

Right now, we are working on strengthening the weak areas from the mild LDs, and will have him go to CC upon graduation. He is enjoying -- and having good success! -- with the sign language classes he is taking for dual enrollment this year, so we will start off by having him take the coursework that could lead to the 2-year degree and certification as an interpreter -- and see what happens along the way. Knowing DS, it will end up being no where NEAR that current tentative goal... ;)

 

Older DS graduated high school last year; he is taking coursework at the CC towards a 2-year Digital Arts degree (film/video production), plus the additional coursework that would transfer as completion of the first 2 years of required classes at any of our state's public universities, so he could then go on for 2 years at the university for a 4-year degree. At the moment he is expressing no particular vision for a 4-year degree.

 

 

Having DSs who are NOT immediately (or possibly ever) heading for a 4-year degree has been a huge reason why I have been investigating "alternatives" -- NOT trying to suggest that people lock onto NOT getting a 4-year degree, but that for many, going the 4-year degree route immediately after high school graduation is either not going to work, or may not be the best timing -- whether due to lack of funds, interest, maturity, clear sense of direction, etc.

 

 

Creekland, I appreciate you sharing your experience with various high school students and future goals/options. It does sound like your area of the U.S. has very specific, negative, economic, educational, and workforce problems and downsides, what with being very rural and not having access to many options. Our state is one of the worst hard-hit by the bursting of the housing bubble, BUT, our family lives in a larger city, and so we have access to more options. I imagine those living in the rural and agricultural areas of our state have access to far fewer options.

 

 

I found this series of charts and the written interpretation below the charts to be very helpful in getting a feel for what the trend in attaining higher education has been, and what it might possibility look like during my DSs working careers. It looks to me like it will be critical for students to get SOME sort of post-high school education -- which at the least will probably need to be a certification or 2-year degree -- in order to stay competitive in the job market. In addition to the link to the trends above which I found very helpful, I'm listing below a few other statistics in case they are of help to anyone else, as well. :)

 

The actual numbers of those who currently HAVE a 4-year Bachelor's or above is lower than what I would have guessed: just under 30% -- a little less than 1 out of every 3 adults over the age of 25. While that number WILL rise some with the current high school/college generation, knowing it is really that LOW right now is actually a little bit of a relief... 2010 U.S. Census Bureau statistics

- 87.14% = high school graduate

- 55.90% = some college

- 39.06% = Associate's and/or Bachelor's Degree

- 29.93% = Bachelor's Degree

- 7.60% = Master's Degree

- 2.93% = Doctorate or Professional Degree

 

 

Gotta run now, but I would like to add to the specific paths that those in their 20s have taken that Creekland and Nan in Mass and others have been so kind as to post. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Lori D.

[Nan in Mass]

Lori - That is much lower than I would have guessed! I would find it comforting if it applied to my area of the country. I am sure the rate is higher where I live. I think it is something like 37% for Mass. in general, and my area is more educated than some of the more rural parts of the state. In my oldest's public school class, almost everyone had plans for further education when graduating. At the time, my son's friends were among the ones whose plans did not work out, or among the few who had no plans. "Plans" meant accepted to a school or program or apprenticeship. It didn't mean "able to pay for" the program. Some stumbled over the money. Others made the plans just to please (or placate) their parents or the guidance department. Making a wildish guess (by counting heads) I would say that 90% at least began to carry out their plan.

 

The default plan was the community college with a plan to transfer. I think our community college has something like a 37% graduation/transfer rate. Only 61% of the full-time students return for a second year, and only 43% of the part-time ones do. The ones I've talked to that did not return said it was just more high school and they were tired of going to school - in other words, it didn't seem to be leading anywhere. (Not that I am complaining about our community college. I've spoken with a number of older students who were studying frantically all the time to get through the basic science and math courses so they could move into the very competative nursing program. I just would be wary of sending a child there to do basic courses with a view to transfering to a 4-year college for a liberal arts degree. The ones I know doing that didn't stay.)

Edited March 30, 2012 by Nan in Mass

[creekland]

Creekland, I appreciate you sharing your experience with various high school students and future goals/options. It does sound like your area of the U.S. has very specific, negative, economic, educational, and workforce problems and downsides, what with being very rural and not having access to many options. Our state is one of the worst hard-hit by the bursting of the housing bubble, BUT, our family lives in a larger city, and so we have access to more options. I imagine those living in the rural and agricultural areas of our state have access to far fewer options.

Lori D.

 

We're actually in an economically decent section of the US for the most part, but it's mostly built upon farming and food manufacturing. There are some other manufacturing plants around too. Since there is so much work opportunity in the blue collar sector, education hasn't been a priority as most that get higher education move out unless they are teachers or local doctors, etc. Since we're rural, not many of those are needed.

 

I love the lifestyle around here or we wouldn't live here. It's been a great place for hubby to have been self-employed with Civil Engineering (until this last downturn anyway). I just wish a decent (by my standards) high school education were available. As I've said before, we were explicitly told by a former middle school principal that our public schools aren't here to educate the above average student. They are here to educate the average student - and around here that means joins the military (at that time it was more likely), works at _____ (major food factory), or goes to community college.

 

We're white collar education loving weirdos for our neighborhood having been raised in other areas and settling here by choice as we love the area and surroundings. If we'd grown up local we'd have known no other way and would think all is fine educationally. Our kids - if bright enough - would attend local colleges and come back for local jobs. ;)

 

I have no bias against blue collar workers in general. Many in those industries are good friends of mine. I have several relatives in blue collar jobs. They can still provide decent jobs for local kids. But we are different... and I want mine to follow in our educational footsteps even if they opt to settle back into this area after getting their degrees. I'm even insisting that they go away to school and NOT stay local. I want them to be part of the world and then choose where to live (here or elsewhere). It's strange I suppose, but that's the way it is. We all have things we want to pass on to our kids.

 

ps It's due to comparing local opportunities vs national opportunities that we've hashed out our theory as to why a degree of some sort is becoming more and more important. Where the factories have gone, there isn't much left. AND, many jobs in factories that used to NOT need degrees now want them.

[Lori D.]

Lori - That is much lower than I would have guessed!

 

 

I know! That statistic really took me aback, Nan.

 

I think what we SEE is loads of high school grads going to college right after graduation -- but what we DON'T see is when many start quietly withdrawing and not making it all the way through to the goal of the 4-year degree. Look at that figure of "55% = some college" -- compared to 30% with a 4-year degree, or even compared to 40% with a 2-year OR 4-year degree! That seems to translate into a HUGE college "drop out" figure to me!

 

Yet, when I think of the young adults in their 20s I know here, several have dropped out, due to not having a clear goal and not having the money to waste on aimlessly taking classes. All of those young adults are working, about half still live at home, and half live on their own.

 

 

 

The default plan was the community college with a plan to transfer.

 

 

Where we live, this is actually the #1 main plan of the majority of homeschoolers, with only those who earned scholarships going straight to either the local public university or to an out-of-state institution. And here, our local CC is of overall good quality, and it has an agreement with all the state public universities that they will accept quite a few specific courses from the CC as the "general ed" coursework -- in fact, there is a program older DS is working through that gives you 2 years-worth of transfer credits to the university, so you only need to take 2 years of classes to finish your Bachelor's.... Quite a few of the homeschool and private/public school students I personally know seem to be doing well with this program.

 

 

Of the young adults in their mid-to-late 20s I know (some homeschooled, some private/public school) about equal amounts fall into these categories:

- got a 4-year degree, got a job, now married and have children

- got a 4-year degree, still single, looking elsewhere than the degree-field area for a job -- either because there aren't jobs available, or the job in the degree-field is giving them personal satisfaction

- got a 4-year degree out-of-state, but have moved back home and can't seem to find a job

- started at the University, but dropped out, now working full time -- some live solo, some at home

- married, children, working, taking a few classes at a time at University toward specific degree and desired job

- single, working, taking classes a few at a time at the CC toward specific degree/certification and desired job -- OR, will transfer to University

- single or married, started own business (some after some time time at University and dropping out)

 

 

Of those who are recent high school grads/early 20s:

- 1 earned her BA through College Plus while finishing high school

- most taking classes at CC, most with idea of transferring to University

- few who got scholarships now at Universities

- only 1-2 went straight to working

 

 

I only know a few people who are now working on, or finished in the past few years, a Master's degree:

- 1 woman, late 40s, earned online Master's in business; the economy wiped out jobs, and she now *just* makes a living by yard-sale/E-bay/Craig's List buying/selling

- 1 woman, late 40s, is currently earning a Master's in ministry; no specific plans for full-time work/use of the degree

- 1 woman, mid-20s, married with 2 toddlers is doing it just because her husband works for the University and she can takes classes very cheap

- a man, late 30s, got his MFA; he teaches high school, and may switch to the teaching at the University setting

- several men/women in mid 20s got MFA in writing; they will continue to work as barristas, office jobs, assistants on University campuses, etc., as, frankly, they aren't going to earn a living by selling their writing, much as the MFA program greatly helped them improve their writing

 

 

I see a trend, here: our family is all Humanities/Fine Arts based, as are quite a few of the people we know. Degrees don't seem to be helping them any; and the few business degrees are not a help right now with such a poor economy, and not living in a place where there are tons of business jobs... Those with engineering and science degrees are doing well; while a lot of friends my age work in those areas, I don't seem to see many students going into those fields...

 

 

While this is kind of silly and many of the statistics are not relevant to this discussion, I DID find interesting the big numbers of students delaying home buying and having families due to college debt statistics from Infographic of the Day: Is College Worth It?

 

 

And for those who want to delve more deeply into these questions, check out this super list of articles: http://collegestats.org/articles/2010/02/whats-a-college-degree-actually-worth-20-good-answers/

 

 

 

In the end, I still plan to *highly* encourage our DSs to get a 4-year degree, though! :) Best of luck to all! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Lori D.

[jpklehm]

Sometimes its not just the content but a skill set you are teaching. My chemistry teacher use to say "It teaches you to think" which I agree. My brain is able to think through complex processes and procedures because of academic rigor and or taking classes that seemed useless in terms of the content. Research, troubleshooting, trial and error, patience, are all skills taught in these upper level courses.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I just had this conversation with my 14 yo ds regarding his Algebra, and I told him the same thing.

[Nan in Mass]

Lori - I think homeschoolers might have a better chance of making it through the community college transfer program. They aren't adding "more high school" to high school. Mine found cc a challenge in ways that had nothing to do with academics and by the time they stopped having to think about putting their name on their paper and they had discovered how silly the girls in their classes were, they were close enough to graduation that finishing wasn't a problem. Besides, mine know what they want to do and know it absolutely requires a 4-year degree. I think it is a different story for many public school students who are just in the community college for lack of a better plan. For them, it is just more limbo.

 

Nan

[LuvingLife]

Just gonna add in my $0.02:D

 

I for the as long as I can remember being pressured to go to college, I had to go, had to go, had to go!!!! Mind you that my parents were not pressuring me one bit, they wanted me to have a goal in mind but never was I required to actually go off to college. It took a long time but finally after years of floundering about I have come to a decision with help from God and my family. I will most likely be attending my local CC or CollegePlus! and the Mission Field has become my calling in life. I am extremely happy with my decision and I wouldn't change it for the world as I now know my calling in life and I don't have that constant nagging feeling that I am not good enough. Going to CC or online college isn't bad, at least you have a goal in life and aren't wasting time like so many I know. (Not everyone does, but there are many I know who do.)

[1Togo]

To the op. Perhaps I missed this, and it's been said in another post, but 7th grade, 8th grade or even 9th grade is too young to predict outcome. An average student or even a student who is behind can change in a few years.

[ktgrok]

I think part of it is that I am SICK of our "college obsessed" world. I seriously don't remember it being like this when I was in high school, and there were many trade options even in our school district. Today, it feels as if high school is simply to prepare every kid for college, and I am sorry...regardless of what the 21st century experts try to tell us...you can teach to college, but the hard core truth is that probably half or at least a third really don't belong there, and the college drop out rate or remediation rate proves that. So what is the point with this obsession?

 

It is NOT that I don't value education, obviously I do or we wouldn't be homeschooling!! But where is the common sense? Where are parents like me whose kids may or may not be really college material of one looked with a more evaluative eye at all kids.

 

It isn't all about the cost, it is about casting each of our children as college-ready, despite the fact that thousands really aren't but feel there are no real other options out there for them or they have been brainwashed to feel "less than" if they elect not to attend.

 

I don't know, it is just becoming a real moral/ethical dilemma for me.

 

Cindy

 

I think the reality is that many jobs that didn't require a college education before, do now. My father was able to get a technical degree from a trade school (electronics) and work his way up. He is now the manager for the entire state of florida for an international company. However, he says that NO ONE could do that now. You HAVE to have a degree to even be considered.

 

Same with my mother. She was an activities director in a nursing home. She was a nurse before that. She was one of the very last people grandfathered in, to be a licensed activities director. Those that came after her MUST have a degree.

 

Also, although many trades pay very well (plumber!), they can be very hard physically. It used to be you could work a physical job and be assured of a pension when you retired at a decent age. That is no longer the case, and many have to work longer into those golden years than before. That isn't possible doing many trades that require physical, back breaking labor.

 

I would think that taking classes at the community college during junior and senior years of highschool would be a free way to get some college credit, feel out how the college system works, and see where they want to go.

[Nan in Mass]

To the op. Perhaps I missed this, and it's been said in another post, but 7th grade, 8th grade or even 9th grade is too young to predict outcome. An average student or even a student who is behind can change in a few years.

 

Totally agree. Thank goodness I didn't have to decide if mine could manage college based on their 8th grade writing ability!

[Nscribe]

Many professions I think about in terms of 10 years from now seem vulnerable to significant change. Take teaching for example, I see a trend in schools for dual enrollments and online/distance learning. Law--more and more the processes are automated and the research is done entirely differently than two decades ago. Medicine--apps and various monitoring technologies plus a trend in policy toward more standardization mean changes to the profession.

 

We are in a time of change. I wonder at times if this is how families who had farmed for generations felt as they poured into the cities and became part of the urban classes at the end of 19th/beginning of 20th century.

 

I have had two different seniors graduating from high school this year tell me their younger siblings entering high school this year will have a much harder path to trek. They base this on all the changes they see in their schools that they just barely grandfathered out of.

 

It is a tough time to be making the decisions high schoolers are having to make. I can't remember where I heard it recently, but one speaker noted that they trend is strongly toward people having multiple (and often vastly different) careers in their working life.

 

All that said, I am trying to provide a solid but diverse experience, opening as many opportunities as possible for a changing world. The only thing that does seem certain is the trend toward more and more education beyond high school.

 

One other note, is the statistics that show how many hold a BA often don't account for whether it was done on a traditional 4 year schedule. I remember reading somewhere that a big surge of later in life degree earners has been in place over the past decade.

[CanaryMelody]

To the op. Perhaps I missed this, and it's been said in another post, but 7th grade, 8th grade or even 9th grade is too young to predict outcome. An average student or even a student who is behind can change in a few years.

 

Not the OP, but thank you for this encouragement. I needed to hear this right now. :001_smile:

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with you! :) That's another thing I've noted in the research I've been doing -- and as what is required in jobs in changing, I'm reading a LOT about how even those who already have degrees are having to go back to school to get a more "current" degree to keep from being replaced by those more recent college grads. So, even already *having* a 4-year degree is not necessarily a help if it is "old".

[CyndiLJ]

As the original poster, all I can say is "WOW!"...lots of terrific thoughts here, and I appreciate all that have shared.

 

I also realized as I read all the comments that I have an unusual piece to our puzzle, which colors my thinking dramatically...all of our children are adopted from orphanages, and 3 of them were adopted as much older children (8, 10 and 11). I think I might be partially rebelling against much of this "Start thinking about college in 8th grade" stuff because several of my kids have already lost half their childhoods, and I don't want them to lose the other half to preparing for a future that no one can predict. Sheesh, my 13 year old daughter is mature in so many ways, but still has the desire to reach back and be the little kid she never got to be...just last week she was playing with Playdough and lovin' it! My 13 year old son still plays imaginary super heroes and is NOT ready to be thinking about college or futures yet, but our culture is set up so that I feel pressured to do what doesn't feel right.

 

That is not all the problem, for sure, and perhaps my anxiety stems from what several of you also posted which I recognize to be true:

 

A) The college drop out rate is ridiculous. Period. We flat out are "pretending" as a society that every kid is college material and are not preparing kids who really aren't for other careers.

 

B) Many are also correct in the fact that, sadly, more and more jobs are requiring college degrees even when it makes not a lick of sense that one should have to have one to fulfill the job.

 

C) We are moving away from a labor based economy to a "thought" based economy, and that makes sense for higher ed. That still leaves many youth who are truly not college material fumbling around...really guys, college was NEVER intended to be appropriate for every single student, no matter how much we want to think they all should go.

 

D) It is asinine for most youth to have a clue what they want to do at 14 or 15 years old, or even younger. Yet just as we now feel we have to have 3 year olds beginning to read and rush their growing up, we also feel we need to have our early teens figuring out their future when they haven't had enough experience to base any choices on.

 

I guess I could go on and on, as I do see both sides. For us, it is not at all about caring about a Big Name College, that is meaningless (although I recognize that for many it is not, and I respect that...just sayin' for us it is not at all important). It is more about the value of college at all...and with the dropout rate being what it is, that actually means that many, many students are in debt for huge sums and still don't end up with a diploma. It also makes me wonder about the validity of the statement so many make about "most jobs today require a diploma"...how can that be if the dropout rate is that high?? Where are all those people coming from to fill those jobs that require college diplomas if the staggering numbers of dropouts are correct? Somehow, I think my greatest confusion stems from numbers and statements that don't add up. I am not necessarily speaking about statements made in this thread, but in our media over the course of the past year or two...there is so much conflicting info out there, how does one know how to direct their children?

 

For the moment, we are taking the academic middle ground...we will make sure we have all the entrance requirements met for a standard lower level college or community college. But I am not going to make sure my kids have so much rigor in their high school education that they are essentially repeating college work once they get to college. I know, call me foolish, but if the average public schooler is getting into college and managing to make it with the kind of education we all know they are getting (or not), than I have to believe that a middle of the road homeschool education would still be superior and give a child a leg up versus a public schooler.

 

Maybe I am just digging in my heels over this because every year I see us expecting more and more that our kids grow up too darned fast, even the ones that are from normal backgrounds. How healthy is this for our children, to push and push? No offense to any here, it is a general question. How much younger are we going to go before we stop trying to make our kids act like college students? 4th grade? 3rd grade? Already schools have pulled recess time, free play time, etc and wonder why they have issues with behavior in class. Already subject matter is introduced at younger and younger ages that used to be considered appropriate only for much older kids...but we are in a rush to have our kids "grow up".

 

It just seems to me that the further down the road we go towards forcing adulthood or more mature behavior on younger and younger children, we find the opposite effect occurring, and we see kids in their mid-20's being ever more irresponsible and delaying real adulthood longer and longer. This whole trend seems to be backfiring on us.

 

If we do college, and I am sure a couple of ours will at least for an AA/AS, we will be CLEPing and onlining it. In Colorado, our community college fees are no bargain, other than you can sometimes attend while at home. I know for some states it is much less expensive, and here it is a little less, but not hugely less.

 

I don't know, I guess part of it is that this board tends to be (and rightfully so) a heavier college orientation for post-high school, and I just have yet to find "my people" anywhere online. I love the suggestions here, I love reading others interesting situations and openness to sharing, but sometimes I feel like the Homeschool Loser Mom reading these boards too much! I just want my kids to have a more pertinent education than I got in PS, a stronger focus on basic reading and writing skills that I got in PS, and more importantly I want them to be able to better explore who they are and what they want to be and not feel as if their entire self worth is bound up in their SAT scores, or that they have to spend the last 4 or 5 years of their childhoods being involved in tons of activities they could care less about simply to look good to an admissions or scholarship committee. I guess I want them to have a real life, and not live only for the future all through high school...be it through public school or homeschool.

 

And I know I have probably inadvertently offended tons of folks here with my comments, and if so I do truly apologize. I don't think at all that ANYONE should view the world the way I do, nor do I think anyone is foolish for doing what works for them. I just wish I didn't feel so alone in this.

 

Thanks so much for all the wonderful feedback!

 

Cindy

[Deb in NZ]

A different perspective here, but take it with a grain of salt as we're not living in the States. I have a university degree & grew up in the States in a family where a university degree was the expected path to follow for a couple generations so far. Dh grew up here in New Zealand & only had 3 years of highschool before doing a 5 year apprenticeship. Neither of his parents or any of his siblings had more than 3 years of highschool. I always assumed that all of our dc would go to uni, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Dd went to PS from age 5-10, homeschooled from age 11-16, then began polytech (like communtiy college). When her friends at PS finished year 13, dd had earned 3 tertiary certificates & numerous practical certificates (Coast Guard, Red Cross, PADI, etc.) as well as put in many hours of volunteer work in areas of interest. Dd had no trouble getting accepted into a 2 year Marine Studies program at polytech, with a 3rd year option to earn a university degree. This was all with NO highschool qualifications, but instead a strong CV showing passion & dedication to her chosen area of study. 2013 dd plans to begin an 18 month cadetship on a tall ship to earn her nautical tickets.

 

Ds#1 went to PS from ages 5-7, then homeschooled until age 15. Since age 15 he has taken a year & a half of polytech, including 2 engineering courses. He also attended a 6 month alternative education program in our town designed to get teens ready for the military. These 2 years of study helped him earn his NCEA 1-3 (NZ's highschool qualification) & be offered an apprenticeship in the biggest engineering company in our province. Ds#1's apprenticeship supervisor has told us that ds#1 is the most qualified engineering apprentice that he's had in the ten years he's been working in the industry. This is more impressive when you consider ds#1 doesn't turn 18 until this coming monday.

 

Ds#2 began highschool last year after homeschooling for 8 years. He is not at this time aiming for university, but instead he plans to follow his father & brother into the trades. He plans to stay in highschool for all 5 years, doing his pre-apprenticeship courses in highschool rather than at polytech like ds#1 did. This is mainly because he wants to be captain of the hockey & sailing teams when in year 13 :tongue_smilie:

 

Dh & I are firm believers in gaining qualifications, but don't believe that is limited to university degrees. Dh's trade certificate has allowed him opportunities that he would not have had with an university degree. He has traveled through his work to places many people only read about as well as making a difference in the day-to-day lives of many people. My university degree is nice now that we need me to go back to work, but for the past 20 years I haven't really used it. I am very grateful that I did not have student loans to pay back.

 

Not having degrees will not limit ds#1 & ds#2's job opportunities. Not having qualifications would have. As it stands at the moment, when ds#1 finishes his apprenticeship he will have the opportunity for jobs that could earn him $60k-80k+ / year. Skilled tradesmen are getting very scarce, so job opportunites are much better than those of many university grads.

 

JMHO,

Edited March 31, 2012 by Deb in NZ

[creekland]

I think what we SEE is loads of high school grads going to college right after graduation -- but what we DON'T see is when many start quietly withdrawing and not making it all the way through to the goal of the 4-year degree. Look at that figure of "55% = some college" -- compared to 30% with a 4-year degree, or even compared to 40% with a 2-year OR 4-year degree! That seems to translate into a HUGE college "drop out" figure to me! Lori D.

 

I know several drop out. It happens a bit from our high school due to being underprepared for a 4 year school. It frustrates me.

 

However, I wonder how the statistics would change if we eliminate the older generation from it. I re-read your stats and it was for >25. If one goes all the way up to senior years, well, few went to college back then. Granted, some are getting degrees when they are older, but I don't think that makes up for the difference totally. I wonder what the stats are for 25< x < 35 or so? It still won't be a majority (except, perhaps, for some subgroups) as many still drop out of high school, much less consider college, but I wonder if there would be an upward trend...

 

Lori - I think homeschoolers might have a better chance of making it through the community college transfer program. They aren't adding "more high school" to high school. Mine found cc a challenge in ways that had nothing to do with academics and by the time they stopped having to think about putting their name on their paper and they had discovered how silly the girls in their classes were, they were close enough to graduation that finishing wasn't a problem. Besides, mine know what they want to do and know it absolutely requires a 4-year degree. I think it is a different story for many public school students who are just in the community college for lack of a better plan. For them, it is just more limbo.

 

Nan

 

I think you're right. The vast majority from our high school who go to cc do so because they aren't quite sure what to do and don't have the stats to go to a 4 year school. There are exceptions, but for the majority, it's hardly a recipe for success for most.

 

To the op. Perhaps I missed this, and it's been said in another post, but 7th grade, 8th grade or even 9th grade is too young to predict outcome. An average student or even a student who is behind can change in a few years.

 

:iagree:

 

I would think that taking classes at the community college during junior and senior years of highschool would be a free way to get some college credit, feel out how the college system works, and see where they want to go.

 

Just remember, for many of us, this option isn't free. We have to pay $230 per credit hour (or $690 per 3 hour course now).

 

Agreeing with you! :) That's another thing I've noted in the research I've been doing -- and as what is required in jobs in changing, I'm reading a LOT about how even those who already have degrees are having to go back to school to get a more "current" degree to keep from being replaced by those more recent college grads. So, even already *having* a 4-year degree is not necessarily a help if it is "old".

 

Hubby - my licensed professional engineer with his own business - just had to complete 24 credit hours (finished them yesterday) to keep his license. It's a state requirement to have ongoing education for engineers. They need 24 credits every 2 years. FTR, I DO think it's important that engineers keep up on the latest in their fields, so I agree with the requirement. ;)

 

It also makes me wonder about the validity of the statement so many make about "most jobs today require a diploma"...how can that be if the dropout rate is that high?? Where are all those people coming from to fill those jobs that require college diplomas if the staggering numbers of dropouts are correct? Somehow, I think my greatest confusion stems from numbers and statements that don't add up. I am not necessarily speaking about statements made in this thread, but in our media over the course of the past year or two...

Cindy

 

I think you're doing a great job and your kids will do well!

 

My guys and I have talked about the point I've quoted above... Our conclusion is that there are far fewer jobs overall. When one considers how much mechanism has taken place it's astounding. One used to have to farm by hand and horse. Roads were carved by hand. "Stuff" used to be made by hand. Now machines do almost everything and just need a handful of people to work them. What do all those other people do?

 

A few work in our megastores - never used to have them. Some work in food service that has grown. Construction used to be an option, but that got hit in the last downturn. But compared to before? When I look at old pics of factories or road building or farming or even telephone service, it's a far different picture than what one sees today.

 

So, oodles are funneled into college to get that degree to be one of those middle class (or higher) white collar workers. Not all THAT many are needed. I suppose one could call it natural selection at work. Even now, one hears of many graduating who can't find jobs (see one of Lori's posts), so those making it through are higher than the numbers needed in some cases.

 

AND, that's where most of us are at today... what degrees have jobs? If picking a "less-likely" degree, how does one go about getting one of the coveted jobs out there? Is it even worth it to try (esp for some who aren't so academically inclined)? If not, what other options are out there? Even the military, which used to be a great fallback, is cutting back (lots of mechanism there too) and requiring more.

 

Whether we like it or not, it HAS become a more competitive world. Not all kids are going to succeed with a 4 year degree (whether they get it or not) - success defined by getting a job they like where they needed that degree. But we all want ours to succeed somewhere... hence - looking at and sharing thoughts/options.

 

Personally, mine are going the 4 year route, but I know they are academically capable and they want it. Whether they succeed or not due to their degree will only be answered years down the road. I think it gives them their greatest odds.

 

We all need to make our own decisions and there is NO ONE right path for everyone. It's a diverse world with diverse jobs. Everyone needs to find their niche. The problem may be that it's like musical chairs and there aren't enough niches to go around. Those who aren't motivated to get one, flounder or only get choices of niches few want - and without motivation to do those... it's not pretty.

Edited March 31, 2012 by creekland

[4wildberrys]

As the original poster, all I can say is "WOW!"...lots of terrific thoughts here, and I appreciate all that have shared.

 

I also realized as I read all the comments that I have an unusual piece to our puzzle, which colors my thinking dramatically...all of our children are adopted from orphanages, and 3 of them were adopted as much older children (8, 10 and 11). I think I might be partially rebelling against much of this "Start thinking about college in 8th grade" stuff because several of my kids have already lost half their childhoods, and I don't want them to lose the other half to preparing for a future that no one can predict. Sheesh, my 13 year old daughter is mature in so many ways, but still has the desire to reach back and be the little kid she never got to be...just last week she was playing with Playdough and lovin' it! My 13 year old son still plays imaginary super heroes and is NOT ready to be thinking about college or futures yet, but our culture is set up so that I feel pressured to do what doesn't feel right.

 

That is not all the problem, for sure, and perhaps my anxiety stems from what several of you also posted which I recognize to be true:

 

A) The college drop out rate is ridiculous. Period. We flat out are "pretending" as a society that every kid is college material and are not preparing kids who really aren't for other careers.

 

B) Many are also correct in the fact that, sadly, more and more jobs are requiring college degrees even when it makes not a lick of sense that one should have to have one to fulfill the job.

 

C) We are moving away from a labor based economy to a "thought" based economy, and that makes sense for higher ed. That still leaves many youth who are truly not college material fumbling around...really guys, college was NEVER intended to be appropriate for every single student, no matter how much we want to think they all should go.

 

D) It is asinine for most youth to have a clue what they want to do at 14 or 15 years old, or even younger. Yet just as we now feel we have to have 3 year olds beginning to read and rush their growing up, we also feel we need to have our early teens figuring out their future when they haven't had enough experience to base any choices on.

 

I guess I could go on and on, as I do see both sides. For us, it is not at all about caring about a Big Name College, that is meaningless (although I recognize that for many it is not, and I respect that...just sayin' for us it is not at all important). It is more about the value of college at all...and with the dropout rate being what it is, that actually means that many, many students are in debt for huge sums and still don't end up with a diploma. It also makes me wonder about the validity of the statement so many make about "most jobs today require a diploma"...how can that be if the dropout rate is that high?? Where are all those people coming from to fill those jobs that require college diplomas if the staggering numbers of dropouts are correct? Somehow, I think my greatest confusion stems from numbers and statements that don't add up. I am not necessarily speaking about statements made in this thread, but in our media over the course of the past year or two...there is so much conflicting info out there, how does one know how to direct their children?

 

For the moment, we are taking the academic middle ground...we will make sure we have all the entrance requirements met for a standard lower level college or community college. But I am not going to make sure my kids have so much rigor in their high school education that they are essentially repeating college work once they get to college. I know, call me foolish, but if the average public schooler is getting into college and managing to make it with the kind of education we all know they are getting (or not), than I have to believe that a middle of the road homeschool education would still be superior and give a child a leg up versus a public schooler.

 

Maybe I am just digging in my heels over this because every year I see us expecting more and more that our kids grow up too darned fast, even the ones that are from normal backgrounds. How healthy is this for our children, to push and push? No offense to any here, it is a general question. How much younger are we going to go before we stop trying to make our kids act like college students? 4th grade? 3rd grade? Already schools have pulled recess time, free play time, etc and wonder why they have issues with behavior in class. Already subject matter is introduced at younger and younger ages that used to be considered appropriate only for much older kids...but we are in a rush to have our kids "grow up".

 

It just seems to me that the further down the road we go towards forcing adulthood or more mature behavior on younger and younger children, we find the opposite effect occurring, and we see kids in their mid-20's being ever more irresponsible and delaying real adulthood longer and longer. This whole trend seems to be backfiring on us.

 

If we do college, and I am sure a couple of ours will at least for an AA/AS, we will be CLEPing and onlining it. In Colorado, our community college fees are no bargain, other than you can sometimes attend while at home. I know for some states it is much less expensive, and here it is a little less, but not hugely less.

 

I don't know, I guess part of it is that this board tends to be (and rightfully so) a heavier college orientation for post-high school, and I just have yet to find "my people" anywhere online. I love the suggestions here, I love reading others interesting situations and openness to sharing, but sometimes I feel like the Homeschool Loser Mom reading these boards too much! I just want my kids to have a more pertinent education than I got in PS, a stronger focus on basic reading and writing skills that I got in PS, and more importantly I want them to be able to better explore who they are and what they want to be and not feel as if their entire self worth is bound up in their SAT scores, or that they have to spend the last 4 or 5 years of their childhoods being involved in tons of activities they could care less about simply to look good to an admissions or scholarship committee. I guess I want them to have a real life, and not live only for the future all through high school...be it through public school or homeschool.

 

And I know I have probably inadvertently offended tons of folks here with my comments, and if so I do truly apologize. I don't think at all that ANYONE should view the world the way I do, nor do I think anyone is foolish for doing what works for them. I just wish I didn't feel so alone in this.

 

Thanks so much for all the wonderful feedback!

 

Cindy

 

I agree with you on SO many points here! ;). I spend far less time here than I used to because I simply don't feel it's necessary to push my particular kids so hard or to do college in high school. I regret, now, all the wasted time worrying and pushing dd into a college prep high school track when I could have eased up, enjoyed her high school years more with her and allowed her to truly follow her more artistic interests. I'm not making the same mistake with ds----we'll cover the college prep basics that he is capable of, but I'm not going to push him into a corner with rigor if it's not a good fit.

 

You're not alone with your thoughts!

[elegantlion]

This may be better served in a spin off, but I think it extends the conversation. What about Networking opportunities in college? I have a family member who worked in England for two years, using her connections from her university. That option would have never presented itself otherwise.

 

My son desperately wants to go to Japan. His best chance is to go through a college trip. Dh wouldn't let him go before college anyway. Our nearest university and closest CC don't offer options of travel to Japan. I can absolutely seeing my son taking advantage of college connections to study in Japan or even go to work after college. I've found a college in state that does offer those choices. My concern is that if he attended locally and then transferred, he missed out on a year or two of building relationships.

 

As someone who went to work right after high school, I don't have any connections to fall back on. I worked at some decent jobs with good people, but it felt like renting vs. buying. When I walked away that was it. There was nothing to keep us tied together. I can't pick from an alumni pool to find expertise in any area. I don't know person x who went on to study or be _______(whatever). That may be different for others, or not seem important. However, I've seen those with the connections be able to help open doors for themselves that would otherwise be shut.

[hsmamainva]

Lori - I think homeschoolers might have a better chance of making it through the community college transfer program. They aren't adding "more high school" to high school. Mine found cc a challenge in ways that had nothing to do with academics and by the time they stopped having to think about putting their name on their paper and they had discovered how silly the girls in their classes were, they were close enough to graduation that finishing wasn't a problem. Besides, mine know what they want to do and know it absolutely requires a 4-year degree. I think it is a different story for many public school students who are just in the community college for lack of a better plan. For them, it is just more limbo.

 

Nan

 

I agree completely! My oldest chose this route.

 

She took a few classes at the community college during her junior and senior years and really enjoyed them. When she graduated in 2009, she applied to her favorite college (at the time) and was waitlisted. She chose to remain at the community college and receive her AA degree.

 

She graduates in May (yay!) and has already applied to five colleges. All five of them accepted her (yay!) and she's already confirmed her acceptance at her top school and received a very generous financial aid package (90% of the cost will be fulfilled in the form of grants).

 

She'll enter college as Junior and she already knows exactly what she wants to major in -- she didn't have a clue what she wanted to study right out of high school.

 

Now...our oldest son "graduates" in May. He'll be 18 and, as far as our county is concerned, we are officially "graduating" him, but he'll continue to study at home. He has Asperger's Syndrome and has always learned at his own pace, which is roughly a year or two below his current grade level.

 

So we're going to continue working on math, writing, and history (his *favorite* subject) for a few more years before he'll be ready for the community college.

 

Our youngest son is definitely college-bound and he's considering a career as a marine biologist or veterinarian...and of course "lead vocalist in a rock band" is still at the top of his list. :lol: So, as you can tell, he still needs a few years to mature! :D

 

Our youngest daughter has classic autism as well as a severe language delay, so we're still working on the basics of learning to read and do basic math. We're hoping she'll eventually be able to live independently at some point -- college is a sky-high pipe dream in her case.

[Deb in NZ]

This may be better served in a spin off, but I think it extends the conversation. What about Networking opportunities in college? I have a family member who worked in England for two years, using her connections from her university. That option would have never presented itself otherwise.

 

My son desperately wants to go to Japan. His best chance is to go through a college trip. Dh wouldn't let him go before college anyway. Our nearest university and closest CC don't offer options of travel to Japan. I can absolutely seeing my son taking advantage of college connections to study in Japan or even go to work after college. I've found a college in state that does offer those choices. My concern is that if he attended locally and then transferred, he missed out on a year or two of building relationships.

 

As someone who went to work right after high school, I don't have any connections to fall back on. I worked at some decent jobs with good people, but it felt like renting vs. buying. When I walked away that was it. There was nothing to keep us tied together. I can't pick from an alumni pool to find expertise in any area. I don't know person x who went on to study or be _______(whatever). That may be different for others, or not seem important. However, I've seen those with the connections be able to help open doors for themselves that would otherwise be shut.

 

Others may find the alumni network to be very valuable, but I have never known of anyone IRL who has used this to open doors. On the otherhand I've noticed that having participated in scouts / sports / etc. has opened many doors for my dc & their peers as well as dh. Ds#1 was told by his apprenticeship supervisor that where he went to school, etc. would most likely not be mentioned at all in his job interview, but he would be asked about the extra curricular activities listed on his CV. If the discussion lasted beyond 5 minutes, regardless of what they were discussing (fishing, hockey, etc.) then he most likely had the job. Employers could find out about previous education, etc. from transcripts & references, but they were very interesting in finding out about personality during the interview & choosing someone who they would like to work with. This has proven true for dh a number of times over the years & continues to be true for our dc. Where you went to school hasn't been nearly as important as what you've done outside of school.

 

JMHO,

[creekland]

Others may find the alumni network to be very valuable, but I have never known of anyone IRL who has used this to open doors.

JMHO,

 

This actually happens a lot here - esp with certain colleges.

 

For those looking for a first job certain names of colleges on applications will get on put in the interview pile and others in the "maybe" or "no" pile. (NOTE: I'm not meaning must be IVY, for engineering around here the good names are Penn St and Virginia Tech - regionally, it'll adjust accordingly as it will with other fields).

 

For those looking for later jobs, connecting with alumni can be key. Our Alma mater sends out a quarterly magazine with various alumni updates (that they send in) and I KNOW we could contact any one of them for networking in their area if we wanted to.

[elegantlion]

Others may find the alumni network to be very valuable, but I have never known of anyone IRL who has used this to open doors. On the otherhand I've noticed that having participated in scouts / sports / etc. has opened many doors for my dc & their peers as well as dh. Ds#1 was told by his apprenticeship supervisor that where he went to school, etc. would most likely not be mentioned at all in his job interview, but he would be asked about the extra curricular activities listed on his CV. If the discussion lasted beyond 5 minutes, regardless of what they were discussing (fishing, hockey, etc.) then he most likely had the job. Employers could find out about previous education, etc. from transcripts & references, but they were very interesting in finding out about personality during the interview & choosing someone who they would like to work with. This has proven true for dh a number of times over the years & continues to be true for our dc. Where you went to school hasn't been nearly as important as what you've done outside of school.

 

JMHO,

 

It's not so much of where you went to school that I'm thinking, it's who you meet along the way. I've seen a lot of professional connections happen because x went to school with y. It's not necessarily the interview, but who you knew to help you get the interview in the first place.

 

My dh never advertised his business, but worked from referrals for years. From my experience there is just as much power in WHO you know as WHAT you know.

[Miss Marple]

This actually happens a lot here - esp with certain colleges.

 

For those looking for a first job certain names of colleges on applications will get on put in the interview pile and others in the "maybe" or "no" pile. (NOTE: I'm not meaning must be IVY, for engineering around here the good names are Penn St and Virginia Tech - regionally, it'll adjust accordingly as it will with other fields).

 

For those looking for later jobs, connecting with alumni can be key. Our Alma mater sends out a quarterly magazine with various alumni updates (that they send in) and I KNOW we could contact any one of them for networking in their area if we wanted to.

 

My ds who graduates this year was talking about this very thing to his younger brother over spring break. DS1 has a job with a petroleum company as soon as he graduates. He indicated that even at the level of internships, networking is the best/fastest way to advance in his field. Stats are the first thing they look for, then they want to know who you know. At the student level the best way was to attend optional seminars with guest speakers, go to the "working luncheons", play golf for various fundraisers, go to the tailgate parties, etc. He actually lost out on an internship because he couldn't find the tailgate party :glare:. Everyone else who attended got an offer (and his stats were better).

 

He interned with the same company for 2 years and now has a permanent job with them. But he is convinced more and more that movement within a company and between companies is primarily based on networking.

[Nan in Mass]

CindyLJ -

 

Not to worry - if you look at the boards over the years, you will see that many of us posted posts very much like yours as we began high school planning - the posts all say something like this:

I don't think my child can handle a high school program of a million AP classes, captain of varsity sports, captain of the debate team, president of the chess club, inventing a widget to save the world, running a large red cross drive in my community, winning math, violin, and robotic competitions, and starting a local soup kitchen.

I wouldn't want my child to live that life even if he could. It would negate the reason we are homeschooling - love of learning, not teaching to the test, accommodating a different learning style or lopsided interests, meaningful learning, having more family time, having time to discover one's passion, a classical education, etc. What about childhood? I don't want my high schooler to have no time to read aloud with the family because they are frantically skimming their AP Lit reading list or no time to cut out snowflakes to celebrate the first snow because they are cramming for the SATs.

Can it really be true that my child needs all that to get into college? Especially when the media is full of how many public school graduates can't read or write or do basic math and how the colleges all need remedial classes now? Surely not...

Some of us go on to wonder whether college is worth it now that it costs so much and there are alternative, cheaper paths to the same degree, especially since the job market in the US (or where ever) is changing due to globalization and mechanization and computerization. And some of us think that a college education is more important than ever before for those same reasons.

Usually the poster mentions the 8th grader's inability to write if they are STEM oriented (or a boy), or the 8th grader's inability to do algebra if they are not STEM oriented.

 

Your post is a very normal for here. Why, then, are there so many posts about AP classes on TWTM board? Because they are a problem. GRIN If they were ordinary and easy for all our children, there would be nothing to post about. Why does it come up at all? Because most of us have discovered, as we move through the high school years, that in order for colleges to compare our homeschooled children to the other applicants, our children need standardized tests or outside grades of some sort, and the big-name colleges like AP tests the best because AP classes, being designed to teach-to-the-test, cover a known body of knowledge. Many people here are homeschooling because their children are too bright to fit in well at their public school and AP classes are possible without making the child do nothing but study. If you aren't aiming for a big-name school, then you probably don't need to bother with AP classes, but unless you are taking an alternative path (CC, online, ...), you probably need to do some standardized testing or outside classes. Many, many of us here are doing something other than million APs, million extra-curriculars, pushpushpush. We concentrate on giving our high schoolers the skills to survive college if they decide to go, have them take the SAT, have them take a few outside classes to validate our mummy transcript, make sure they do something more or less equivalent to the 4 English, 4 math, 4 science, 4 social studies, 2 foreign language, and then concentrate on our own family educational goals and giving our children time to do their own thing. The results are often amazing! And the children get into college if they want to go - not Harvard, of course, or MIT, but a more ordinary college. And because they aren't tied to their books, they often find they have the time and energy to invent something or travel or play a sport or get involved helping their community or contribute to their family or start their own business. In other words, they have time to become an interesting person. And their parents post intimidating posts on TWTM board asking for help with these various activities GRIN. I would tell you to go look at the college acceptance thread on the college board, but it doesn't show the ways in which the students were not like the average playing-the-game students - all that shows is their success despite not playing the game.

 

I don't mean to imply that your own situation is not unique and does not have its own unique problems. I just want to offer comfort and tell you that you don't not-belong here as much as you think.

 

Lots of luck with whatever path you decide to take...

 

Nan

 

PS - I am one of the ones who refused to play top-this-test-and-extra-curric.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Nan in Mass

[CyndiLJ]

CindyLJ -

 

Not to worry - if you look at the boards over the years, you will see that many of us posted posts very much like yours as we began high school planning - the posts all say something like this:

I don't think my child can handle a high school program of a million AP classes, captain of varsity sports, captain of the debate team, president of the chess club, inventing a widget to save the world, running a large red cross drive in my community, winning math, violin, and robotic competitions, and starting a local soup kitchen.

I wouldn't want my child to live that life even if he could. It would negate the reason we are homeschooling - love of learning, not teaching to the test, accommodating a different learning style or lopsided interests, meaningful learning, having more family time, having time to discover one's passion, a classical education, etc. What about childhood? I don't want my high schooler to have no time to read aloud with the family because they are frantically skimming their AP Lit reading list or no time to cut out snowflakes to celebrate the first snow because they are cramming for the SATs.

 

.......

 

Lots of luck with whatever path you decide to take...

 

Nan

 

PS - I am one of the ones who refused to play top-this-test-and-extra-curric.

 

Nan,

 

I think I love you. Can you be my mommy mentor? Pretty Please???

 

You said exactly what I think I needed to hear. I want my kids to be interesting and interested, not glued to books. I DO want them prepared, but I the Harvard MIT route ain't happenin' here so why teach college in high school? Not that I want them to have the easy way out, I don't, but I want more time for real life, not a School Robot.

 

Interestingly, many of the family in our rural area seem to go to the flip side and don't do much at ALL as far as academic and I am sometimes seen as "hardcore" where on this list I would be seen as a bit of a loosey goosey! HAHA! Can't win, I guess :-)

 

Ahhhh...I feel much better now, Thanks!!!!!!

 

Cindy

[elegantlion]

Nan, as always, you rock. I appreciate your words.

[Deb in NZ]

Nan, as always, you rock. I appreciate your words.

 

:iagree:

[Nan in Mass]

Paula - I remember when you wrote your I don't think I want to do this post LOL. You were interested in that global student book, right? I just used her directions to find a summer French program for my youngest. Nan

[elegantlion]

Paula - I remember when you wrote your I don't think I want to do this post LOL. You were interested in that global student book, right? I just used her directions to find a summer French program for my youngest. Nan

 

Oh, wonderful. I still have that one on my wish list.

[Nan in Mass]

I don't agree with everything the author says about education in general and the tone is rather annoying (when it isn't seeming comforting because I have a child on the other side of the world), but I don't think there is anything wrong with her two basic ideas - finding a way to make her children desirable in the new more global job market and finding a way to make college affordable. Her practical, how do I set this up, how does it really work out information seems about right to me, judging from talking to other people who have done this. Just don't overlook the assumption by the author (and occasional aside in a quote) that the student will have rock solid study skills. It does offer another educational path for those who are not trying to do the good tests/gpa/ex curr's route into college. I wish I had done more of what she suggests. I've done bits and pieces here and there but almost totally in such a way that it negates the benefits she discusses. Sigh.

 

Nan

Edited April 2, 2012 by Nan in Mass

[SailorMom]

Normal kids go to college. Normal kids don't go to college.

College is not the end-all, and does not guarantee success in life or even a decent job.

However, it used to be a high school diploma was enough to get a really good job - a job that paid well enough to support a family.

Now - a 4 year college degree is expected for many of those same jobs. To stand out now, you need a graduate degree.

So - do they have to go? No, of course not.

But - if they aren't sure where they are going or what they want to do, then the options need to be kept open for them. If they want college, then they can find a way to make the finances work when they get to that point. If they don't get college-prep sort of classes - even that may not be a possibility for them. I don't think you hve to be the extreme to prepare them, though. Just decent classes in math, language arts and science. Maybe tow years of a foreign language. The "top-this-test-and-extra-curricular" is not needed for most kids.

It is still very possible to get a four-year degree without breaking the bank - and you son't have to be a super-star high-schooler.