JenniferB Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Michael Pearl defends his book "To Train up a Child" in this news cast. Homeschooling is mentioned in the news cast as one of the problems, because the murdered children in these cases are isolated and don't attend public schools where teachers are mandatory reporters. Oh boy... A petition to get Amazon to stop selling the Pearl's book was also mentioned. Has that been passed around the Hive yet? I haven't seen it. We should get that petition some more signatures! :auto: to try and find a link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think this is the petition Q13 Fox was referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissad2 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I signed it. Thanks for the link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Signed and tweeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillian Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I've signed the petition already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 signed! Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I see I signed that one in October of 2011. It doesn't seem to have gotten a lot of public awareness. I wish more people would sign it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 As someone who has spanked my children, and even with a <gasp> wooden spoon, I think the book should be withdrawn from being sold :( I love my kids... never have bruised them... and I'm not sure I'd even spank them if I was choosing again.... At the very least, I'm not sure why he won't put anything in about being careful to not hurt them... not to spank (or at least "over spank") adopted children. I'm so sorry that he can't see the harm he's doing :( So... so... sorry :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElisabethGrace Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thank you for posting this. I've signed & I'm off to spread the word!:auto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) The answer is not in calling for a boycott of a product. The answer is in holding child abusers fully responsible for their actions regardless of what they read in their free time. No book, in and of itself, can turn you into a child abuser. Nobody can make you beat your child dead without your consent. THAT is what matters, not where or whom those people "got their ideas" from. No such thing as "gave them ideas". These cases are cases of personal responsibility and self-restraint gone wrong, not cases of a bad book having a magical power of making good people do bad things, as one would assume is the case due to all the media hype about that book. It is never about "ideas" per se - it is about people having a responsibility to exercise caution and self-restraint and approach ideas critically. So, I am NOT going to sign any boycott proposal, in spite of disagreeing with just about everything that book suggests. After all, Amazon sells De Sade, Mein Kampf, and a whole bunch of "morally questionable" works. It is not about pretending those works, or works about "questionable parenting methods" do not exist, nor is it about patronizing people by attemping to make those works the least accessible possible - it is about emphasizing the element of personal responsibility. Read what you want, but YOU will be responsible for what you do with i.e. for your actions towards your children. Edited March 15, 2012 by Ester Maria illiteracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The answer is not in calling for a boycott of a product. The answer is in holding child abusers fully responsible for their actions regardless of what they read in their free time. No book, in and of itself, can turn you into a child abuser. Nobody can make you beat your child dead without your consent. THAT is what matters, not where or whom those people "got their ideas" from. No such thing as "gave them ideas". These cases are cases of personal responsibility and self-restraint gone wrong, not cases of a bad book having a magical power of making good people do bad things, as one would assume is the case due to all the media hype about that book. It is never about "ideas" per se - it is about people having a responsibility to exercise caution and self-restraint and approach ideas critically. So, I am NOT going to sign any boycott proposal, in spite of disagreeing with just about everything that book suggests. After all, Amazon sells De Sade, Mein Kampf, and a whole bunch of "morally questionable" works. It is not about pretending those works, or works about "questionable parenting methods" do not exist, nor is it about patronizing people by attemping to make those works the least accessible possible - it is about emphasizing the element of personal responsibility. Read what you want, but YOU will be responsible for what you do with i.e. for your actions towards your children. :iagree: The answer is not to boycott or socially censor the thoughts or beliefs of another, no matter how offensive. It's to encourage discussion that will foster the sharpening of individual personal judgment and critical thinking skills. Also, it's important to ask the question: if Michael Pearl's ideals of discipline are finding fertile ground to take root, what went into making that "ground" favorable in the first place? In other words, what is providing the "fertilizer" that is causing some people to be so receptive to the Pearls' ideals? I could name a couple of likely cohorts, including some very traditional beliefs regarding social order, authority, and child-rearing. But rather than focus on these issues (which many absolutely resist subjecting to critique), it is easier to focus on the final trigger, and blame that instead. The problem is, that once the Pearls' book is banned, the same agents who were looking for this system to fill in the gaps to an already pre-set paradigm, are going to merely look for some other equally egregious method of "discipline" to match their beliefs. As Ester said, no book or movie or other opinion piece can make you believe or practice something. That is your own choice, predicated upon what you are willing to accept a given source as reasonable and sound information, and how far you decide to apply that to your own life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think that every single time Michael Pearl speaks, it clarifies more and more to every parent capable of independent thought exactly why and how he is an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think that every single time Michael Pearl speaks, it clarifies more and more to every parent capable of independent thought exactly why and how he is an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Amen. Gosh this guy is like a cockroach that you just can't get rid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Didn't he say that he was raised the same way? That. in and of itself, explains a lot. It's a whole vicious cycle. It's so sad that people who read it can't see it for what it is and instead give it merit and follow his insane advice. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I bought some of his books many years ago...when it was suggested to me that *homeschoolers just loved them*. :glare: When I watched that video of him barely tapping his hand with that plumber's supply line and saying, "Ouch, that hurts." it made me cringe to think of how HARD those parents must have whipped their children and how devastated those kids must have felt. I had no idea that he suggests withholding food and spraying with water as additional punishments. :crying: The reporter had obvious bias against homeschooling, which is unfortunate for us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) The answer is not in calling for a boycott of a product. The answer is in holding child abusers fully responsible for their actions regardless of what they read in their free time. No book, in and of itself, can turn you into a child abuser. Nobody can make you beat your child dead without your consent. THAT is what matters, not where or whom those people "got their ideas" from. No such thing as "gave them ideas". These cases are cases of personal responsibility and self-restraint gone wrong, not cases of a bad book having a magical power of making good people do bad things, as one would assume is the case due to all the media hype about that book. It is never about "ideas" per se - it is about people having a responsibility to exercise caution and self-restraint and approach ideas critically. No, but when a woman who was raised in an abusive household and has a predisposition to act in an abusive manner reads something like this, when she is already sleep-deprived and stressed and in all likelyhood trying to parent too many children as it is, it makes it that much harder for her to resist her upbringing and continue to parent in a calm, loving manner. I do think that the best way of getting rid of this garbage is for people to simply not buy it, but let's not pretend that it hasn't had any kind of negative influence and that the authors don't have any responsibility for the book's content. ETA: That wasn't some kind of autobiographical statement, in case anyone was thinking that. I've just read about it happening too many times. Edited March 16, 2012 by Mergath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeslieAnneLevine Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I signed it. It might not be the answer, the most ideal way to combat this, but it's one way to do so and that's a good enough reason for me to sign it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The answer is not in calling for a boycott of a product. The answer is in holding child abusers fully responsible for their actions regardless of what they read in their free time. No book, in and of itself, can turn you into a child abuser. Nobody can make you beat your child dead without your consent. THAT is what matters, not where or whom those people "got their ideas" from. No such thing as "gave them ideas". These cases are cases of personal responsibility and self-restraint gone wrong, not cases of a bad book having a magical power of making good people do bad things, as one would assume is the case due to all the media hype about that book. It is never about "ideas" per se - it is about people having a responsibility to exercise caution and self-restraint and approach ideas critically. So, I am NOT going to sign any boycott proposal, in spite of disagreeing with just about everything that book suggests. After all, Amazon sells De Sade, Mein Kampf, and a whole bunch of "morally questionable" works. It is not about pretending those works, or works about "questionable parenting methods" do not exist, nor is it about patronizing people by attemping to make those works the least accessible possible - it is about emphasizing the element of personal responsibility. Read what you want, but YOU will be responsible for what you do with i.e. for your actions towards your children. I agree with you, and yet if he loves children, regardless of how he feels about his book.... he would withdraw it from being sold. (He would take responsibility to remove a book that is being used "incorrectly") I can't believe that with people killing their children in the name of "discipline" that he would continue to not at least warn those exhausted parents to look at their parenting a second time.... and make sure they're helping their children overcome their issues. (Thinking specifically of those poor adopted kids going through so many problems, including plain culture shock :() Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I also think there is some responsibility in the parenting community to make sure that garbage stays out of reach. I think the Pearls get into a lot of homes because new parents are ignorant or scared of being parents. I never changed a diaper until it was my son's. I was spanked as a child, not harshly, but it was a viable form of discipline. I had no clue how to be a good parent. Many of these vulnerable parents may have not been raised in a church and are now trying to "do the right thing". Unfortunately the Pearls getting discussed as a viable option is dangerous. We were older parents, with some years of living behind us, so parenting seemed like a natural course of common sense. I can absolutely see if would be easy for others to get sucked into the Pearls vortex, and not see the danger for a few years. People that are ignorant or looking for discipline methods won't be digging into Mein Kampf probably. To me that is what makes the Pearls despicable, they prey on the ignorance and vulnerability of people trying to do a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 It just slays me to be associated with this whackadoodle in some peoples mind's because we homeschool. I don't support censorship but frankly, I think this book contains explicit instructions for criminal activity. Then again, so does the Anarchist's Cookbook and the drivel put out by racial hate groups everywhere. It troubles me that there is a market for it at all. While the parents who beat and kill their children are responsible for those crimes, the Pearls and their advice- ranging from staying with the man who rapes your kids to smacking teeny babies hard for no reason in particular- are not in my mind morally free and clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 No, but when a woman who was raised in an abusive household and has a predisposition to act in an abusive manner reads something like this, when she is already sleep-deprived and stressed and in all likelyhood trying to parent too many children as it is, it makes it that much harder for her to resist her upbringing and continue to parent in a calm, loving manner. I do think that the best way of getting rid of this garbage is for people to simply not buy it, but let's not pretend that it hasn't had any kind of negative influence and that they authors don't have an responsibility for the book's content. I absolutely, 100% agree with you that the book has what we might call "a dangerous potential" and that it can be a trigger for a person of a particular kind of background (social, ideological, education) and of a particular kind of personal disposition, which, when combined, can be tangibly dangerous. As regards this recognition, you and I are on the same page. My problem is that I could say the same about anything and everything - everything is a potential trigger for somebody and can, combined with certain people and circumstances, be a factor in things going very wrong. Many - most? - ideas out there on the "market" of ideas have a dangerous potential for some people of some backgrounds in some circumstances, even the seemingly innocuous ones, let alone those that are not. I think that it ultimately boils down to the choice between two options. Either we can treat people (more specifically, adults without significant cognitive issues) as in principle responsible for their actions and capable of owning them, capable of raising above the context which produced them to the level of having acquired a certain autonomy of their choices... or we can treat them as incapable, in principle, of doing so, and patronize them by "protecting them from their own selves" by measures such as calling for boycotts of publications and alike, suggesting that their choices were not really "theirs" but that they were "influenced by ideas" (presumably, to the point of not being able to resist), and so forth. This is the point at which you and I may part in opinion (though not necessarily). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I also think there is some responsibility in the parenting community to make sure that garbage stays out of reach. I think exactly the opposite. I would like to see it out there, commented and demystified. If I were a Christian or otherwise stemming from the circles which are the target audience, feeling like I could reach hem, I might be even entertaining the idea of publishing a critical edition / my own reading with "corrrections" (theological, pedagogical, etc.) / etc. I think that is what needs to be done, with both the original text and responses out there in broad daylight, rather than 'dangeous' publications being pushed aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The answer is not in calling for a boycott of a product. The answer is in holding child abusers fully responsible for their actions regardless of what they read in their free time. No book, in and of itself, can turn you into a child abuser. Nobody can make you beat your child dead without your consent. THAT is what matters, not where or whom those people "got their ideas" from. No such thing as "gave them ideas". These cases are cases of personal responsibility and self-restraint gone wrong, not cases of a bad book having a magical power of making good people do bad things, as one would assume is the case due to all the media hype about that book. It is never about "ideas" per se - it is about people having a responsibility to exercise caution and self-restraint and approach ideas critically. So, I am NOT going to sign any boycott proposal, in spite of disagreeing with just about everything that book suggests. After all, Amazon sells De Sade, Mein Kampf, and a whole bunch of "morally questionable" works. It is not about pretending those works, or works about "questionable parenting methods" do not exist, nor is it about patronizing people by attemping to make those works the least accessible possible - it is about emphasizing the element of personal responsibility. Read what you want, but YOU will be responsible for what you do with i.e. for your actions towards your children. Absolutely. THIS is the point. We don't petition that other books be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I have read this book, in my teen years, growing up in a different kind of way..won't go into it. Anyways, I will say my children will never be treated the way this book says. I have personally seen too many children, too many families hurt by the practices that this man, and other men- I know some :( -are doing to their children and wives, yes wives. It makes me sick and the Lord even says in His Word not to harm a little child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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