Sonlight alternatives

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I am getting TOG 2 ready, Easy Classical for K, and Omnibus 2 to supplement.

TOG has suggestions in the redesigned print version for alternate books, and the TOG site has a list for each replaced book. After this, I am curious to see the changes SL is really making.:001_smile: I may use a core for younger and just continue in Omnibus. Prairie Primer for sure too! I have to follow the cycles in History and have always missed year 2 for various reasons. We plan to move slowly through the TOG 2 to fit everything in and go deep into history.

[warneral]

Guest hollow

Story of the world

Mystery of history

Tapestry of grace

[Mom0012]

I agree about CHEC being a big reason for SL to add in the Marshal books. I can't stand CHEC, they mock anyone who claims to be Christian but does not follow Ken Hamm. I've never been to a CHEC convention, they are incredibly expensive AND lock out most of the companies that I'd want to see.

 

I have been worried about SL making more substantial curriculum changes for a couple of years and sadly, it looks like that is precisely what's happening. I wonder if there will be more and more of these books, and a further circling of the wagons around Evangelistic homeschoolers. SL used to be the one Christian curriculum that could be used by a wide variety of faiths/nonfaiths, but it's looking more and more Bob Jones-y.

 

I really must research Pandia Press and other options. I have ToG Year 1 and it's ok, but not quite our style. I do find it very easy to sub out many of their religious beliefs and sub in our own! The books they recommend are also really good, and I love the extras like philosophy, art history, architecture, etc that you can do, and the books for those. That is really nice. I might have to change how we do ToG to make it fit our family for high school, IDK. I LOVE the format of VP Omnibus (the background material, the quality of the binding, the use of various authors for the articles and the various assignments). But, I can't STAND the Reformed view that permeates everything. Even my dd is getting annoyed with the POV.

 

Right now, as peeved as I am with SL, we'll be doing Core 6 and some of 7 and possibly 100 (I really have to see an IG to make that determination). My dc love SL and adore the books. The way SL is scheduled and done in the lower Cores matches well for our family. I am very glad that I don't have to worry about the new Marshal books, those Cores are done and we won't be revisiting them.

 

To me, it seems like poor timing for SL to make this change if these are their reasons for doing so. Homeschooling is becoming more and more mainstream and I think the strong Christian base that was a large part of the initial movement is going to become a smaller and smaller part of the whole. Really, I can't imagine that there are going to be more and more secular options in the near future. The way SL is now, it is very flexible and can be adapted for Christians, non-Christians and secular homeschoolers. I think it would be a shame for them to pigeon-hole themselves into one niche that seems like it will become a smaller segment of the overall homeschooling population. But, they have the numbers and I'm sure they've researched it, so maybe this is a move they felt they had to make to keep afloat.

 

Lisa

[kolamum]

Therein lies the problem. We're not quite sure what their educational philosophy is at this point. :confused:

 

Did you see her video on the SL page discussing why the changes were being made in her own words? I haven't watched it yet, but for some it helped them understand the why..

 

Although a promise was made of more information to come when the thread I was following was locked, I'm not sure I need more info at this point. If it was a flap about a completely new book, I might hold judgment. The complete about face after John's eloquent assessment is remarkable. I really don't want to support sales of books like that for a child under 10, no matter what notes they may include in the new IG.

 

I had my box day today of my selections from the 2011 D+E. I didn't get the IG. It may be my last SL box day.

 

I'll be using SL's lit that I just got, that I'll schedule in with WinterPromise's American Crossing. WP's shipping isn't anything like SL's, but I can plan around it and I actually like what I've gotten from them in a couple other programs.

 

To make shipping quicker with WP only purchase their material from them. As in their WP Exclusives. Get the rest from Amazon or Book Depository. Makes things REALLY quick. :D We loved our year with AC, but I moved away from WP to SL because of WP's resale policy. I also liked the looks of the books with SL better for year 4. ;)

 

 

I will say this, if you don't like the new IG's I bet you'll be in luck with the old ones for a while. There's so many people excited about the changes that they'll be selling their old IG's.. I'm amongst them and all ready mentioned to do parting with the older ones. :lol:

 

 

 

FWIW, It was discussed on their website about the whole LA & Bible thing. Bible isn't optional, it's in there.. BUT, LA is optional. You don't HAVE to purchase it with the Core. Or so they said. I'm not sure how that will work after viewing the most recent samples, but I did find that interesting. We've used their LA, but not ones matched with their cores yet so I'm hoping that I can defer not to have the LA I don't want & that my ig's won't see a huge price rise, kwim?

[3peasinapod]

 

FWIW, It was discussed on their website about the whole LA & Bible thing. Bible isn't optional, it's in there.. BUT, LA is optional. You don't HAVE to purchase it with the Core. Or so they said. I'm not sure how that will work after viewing the most recent samples, but I did find that interesting. We've used their LA, but not ones matched with their cores yet so I'm hoping that I can defer not to have the LA I don't want & that my ig's won't see a huge price rise, kwim?

 

I think LA is not optional when you buy a core no matter what, early cores through later cores. The difference comes in at Core D, where the LA portion is actually on the backside of the core schedule. So next year when we get to Core D, I will have to purchase the IG with the LA even if I don't use the LA. Fortunately, I am willing to supplement with pieces of SL's LA as we have time. In the early cores, if you are just purchasing an IG, you don't have to get the LA too; these are interchangeable.

 

Sarita's video also helped me and her response to The Light and Glory predicament on the forums . . . for now. I won't use that book when we get to it, and I will be watchful of PH and keep my ears open to discussions. That's just me, though. I understand how to some, this change is not negotiable though.

Edited March 16, 2012 by 3peasinapod

[lorisuewho]

Sarita's video also helped me and her response to The Light and Glory predicament on the forums . . . for now. I won't use that book when we get to it, and I will be watchful of PH and keep my ears open to discussions. That's just me, though. I understand how to some, this change is not negotiable though.

 

I must have watched a different video of Sarita. The one I watched discussed why the changes to the IGs. I thought it was helpful. However, there was no mention of The LIght and Glory in that video. Is there another one?

[ZooRho]

I must have watched a different video of Sarita. The one I watched discussed why the changes to the IGs. I thought it was helpful. However, there was no mention of The LIght and Glory in that video. Is there another one?

 

I think she meant the response that Amy posted from her conversation with her mom

[tuesdayschild]

If I had the money I'd buy up all the cores now and be done with it LOL.

 

This is what I wish I could do.

Us too, or at least the cores we imagined we might use for high school.

 

DH says buy the IG for G/6 (the only pre-Core H IG we don't have) and then look elsewhere :001_huh: since the way the new IG's will be set up totally defeats the reason we purchase them - for the book notes.

He's totally involved with the R/A's and uses the current book by book notes we've tucked neatly inside a book.

 

Possible choices for us to browse through :

-Pre 2012 2nd hand SL IG's

-A.O.L

-Biblio Plan

-History Odyssey

-Invent something myself (following the WTM way):glare:

-Dreaming now: and lastly I'll be hoping that someone else invents a *new* hs curric that is a 4 year cycle of WORLD history, with sep.er.ate book notes, literature that is engaging, and provides a catalogue that includes a review of each book ;)

[Michelle My Bell]

I have nothing to say about Sonlight, but no, TOG does not include L/A. It does have an optional writing component, but not L/A.

 

I'm sure I'm going to regret asking this, and I'm going to seem like an uneducated idiot for doing so, but I really am trying to understand some of the issues and I'm just not getting something (I guess).

 

It seems some of the issue is the LA being included. But without seeing how much this increases the price I don't understand why people just don't do that part. If it does increase the price significantly, well, that I can understand somewhat. But, we don't know until 4/2, right? And doesn't TOG (since that's where most are looking to go...even I'm looking.) include LA too? So I'm just not getting that part exactly, as a reason to be really upset with them. Because there doesn't seem to be the same uproar over Bible being included. Or is there something else?

 

Then there is The Light and Glory and other book issue. Ok, I went back and researched John's blog. Got it, I see why people took issue with it.

But again, this seems like an issue that might be a bit early. It's scheduled as a Day 5 book, so optional. (I'm a 4 day user so maybe it's a perception thing. Since I do 4 days I would have no problem not doing that book anyway. So, maybe 5 day folks are upset that soemthing like this is being added to them? They maybe don't see it as optional as I do?) I am assuming the book won't be read in totality so maybe some of the selections are ok? Don't hit me!! Really, I just don't know and I'm sorting it out. I thought the "warning" with SL all along was that different ideas would be present but that notes would be there. And John's notes will be there right? Well, we guess. But won't know until April 2.

 

I do understand that the view of history presented is slanted or even wrong (in TLaG). But can't that be said of almost any history book? Or several? I am NO history buff at all. I look at the history of my voting years and I know that both sides are rarely shared in a single reporting or book. So I admit, that I take most history books with a grain of salt.

Is the issue with them including any of it, because it's all wrong? How do you know that opposing views won't be included in later weeks? (Until we see the whole schedule?)

 

I guess I've never seen any curriculum not have something included that someone didn't want or like, and changes make everyone crazy...but SL is a business like any other and most try to streamline and have continuity across the brand. I like the way the notes were (2011)...I had a great system. :) And this new way will certainly yank that out from under me. But most curriculum I've used since 2008 have had significant changes.

 

So, could April 2nd change the degree of these issues?

 

And regarding the direction of the educational philosophy...is this related to The Light and Glory issue? Or is there something else in what they have done? This is something I really can't find anything on and would like to know as I'm only doing 3rd grade right now and want to know what I'm looking out for.

[kardamom]

To make shipping quicker with WP only purchase their material from them. As in their WP Exclusives. Get the rest from Amazon or Book Depository. Makes things REALLY quick. :D We loved our year with AC, but I moved away from WP to SL because of WP's resale policy. I also liked the looks of the books with SL better for year 4. ;)

 

 

I will say this, if you don't like the new IG's I bet you'll be in luck with the old ones for a while. There's so many people excited about the changes that they'll be selling their old IG's.. I'm amongst them and all ready mentioned to do parting with the older ones. :lol:

 

 

 

FWIW, It was discussed on their website about the whole LA & Bible thing. Bible isn't optional, it's in there.. BUT, LA is optional. You don't HAVE to purchase it with the Core. Or so they said. I'm not sure how that will work after viewing the most recent samples, but I did find that interesting. We've used their LA, but not ones matched with their cores yet so I'm hoping that I can defer not to have the LA I don't want & that my ig's won't see a huge price rise, kwim?

 

For SL LA, someone asked about being able to upgrade a LA IG in the future, and SL's response was that there would be nothing to upgrade, because the LA won't be available separately for core D and above. It appears to me it won't be optional, and it won't be available separately (except for cores A - C, where you can pick based on your child's reader level). I wonder if there was much of a market for the separate LA.

 

As for WP, I was wondering why people on their forum were passing up the full package IG discount and buying off Amazon until I placed my first order -- on August 18th with a planned September start -- newbie error :lol:

[Ohmomjacquie]

We are going to be using my father's worlf next year for mt third grader.similar style but cheaper and we can choose rainy books from a list or pick our own.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I hate to be the idiot here who doesn't know what is going on but instead of searching through all the old threads I thought I would ask what sonlight has done that has made everyone jump ship on them. I have always longed to use them and am sad to hear of so many who are unhappy. What is the deal?

[3peasinapod]

I think she meant the response that Amy posted from her conversation with her mom

 

I must have watched a different video of Sarita. The one I watched discussed why the changes to the IGs. I thought it was helpful. However, there was no mention of The LIght and Glory in that video. Is there another one?

 

 

It was the response Amy put on the forums. I apologize, I don't know which forums are public and private; it's confusing to me.

[ZooRho]

I hate to be the idiot here who doesn't know what is going on but instead of searching through all the old threads I thought I would ask what sonlight has done that has made everyone jump ship on them. I have always longed to use them and am sad to hear of so many who are unhappy. What is the deal?

Search for the Light and the Glory thread.

 

Sl is re adding that book after it was removed and notes inserted about what a bad book it was.

[ZooRho]

It was the response Amy put on the forums. I apologize, I don't know which forums are public and private; it's confusing to me.

 

it is under moderator review anyway so locked away. and more than likely won't have the conversation in it when /if it returns

[boscopup]

I hate to be the idiot here who doesn't know what is going on but instead of searching through all the old threads I thought I would ask what sonlight has done that has made everyone jump ship on them. I have always longed to use them and am sad to hear of so many who are unhappy. What is the deal?

 

They're about to reveal their new redesign of cores A-G. They showed a sample of Core D which included a book titled The Light and the Glory, which is a VERY providential book. The book was previously the spine in this core many years ago (like 20?), but was taken out when they found the Landmark book. Later, John himself posted a lengthy post about how bad TLATG is, that it was "an embarrassment to the company". Now they've added this book in as an optional 5th day only book in order to cover a few topics (not sure how many - The Great Awakening and Amistad were specifically mentioned, but there may be more). It will not be a spine, and it sounds like it won't be used in its entirety.

 

This book was the first thing I noticed about Core D changes before anyone mentioned it, and it alarmed me to see it. I would not want to use that book at all (and I'm a conservative, Bible-is-the-word-of-God, literal 6 day creation, all that jazz Christian). It presents America as "the new Israel".

 

Now they're saying that Sarita may not have even known about John posting the diatribe against the book, and Sarita chose the book because she wanted to fill specific holes without getting a whole book to be read (just wanted something with stories you could do individually for the 5th day). I can understand her position, and I can understand the mixup between John's comments and Sarita's comments. I do think there is probably a better resource than TLATG out there that she could have used, or she could have just left those topics out, since this core is meant for 3rd-5th graders (!!). The Great Awakening was technically taught in the core via a mini-report, where the child was to look it up in an encyclopedia and write (or narrate) what happened. I think that's sufficient for the age, personally. I don't know if Amistad is covered in that way. I haven't gotten that far in the schedule. I have a 2005 IG.

 

That's the brief version. :D

[3peasinapod]

I hate to be the idiot here who doesn't know what is going on but instead of searching through all the old threads I thought I would ask what sonlight has done that has made everyone jump ship on them. I have always longed to use them and am sad to hear of so many who are unhappy. What is the deal?

 

It is a long story. One reason, not the only reason, people are upset is because a book they took out years ago, The Light and the Glory, is being put back into Core D. It is a Providential History book with gross inaccuracies. There is more to the whole thing than meets the eye, though.

 

I was about to jump, but decided to watch very carefully and see how the notes handle this particular book or if other books are added that have this slant. SL was known to be in the middle of the road, carefully hitting both sides and teaching kids to think from both sides. This book seems a strange choice.

 

I know I'm not describing everything and I'm only speculating from what I've read, but the best thing would be to read everyone's remarks.

[Kathryn]

The problem with claiming Sarita didn't know john's thoughts is that they were in the IGs as well. And it's not just one book, it's all three. And it's how they're portraying themselves as nobody having a clue what anyone else in the company is doing or why. And it's how customers are being treated when asking questions. We're told that we are whiney children who need to be quiet. It's not just one thing, and it's not just the few I've mentioned. It's one after another after another.

[3peasinapod]

The problem with claiming Sarita didn't know john's thoughts is that they were in the IGs as well. And it's not just one book, it's all three. And it's how they're portraying themselves as nobody having a clue what anyone else in the company is doing or why. And it's how customers are being treated when asking questions. We're told that we are whiney children who need to be quiet. It's not just one thing, and it's not just the few I've mentioned. It's one after another after another.

 

 

I think that this was just a bad example done from the spur of the moment type thing. It was offensive, and thankfully Amy did apologize/regret it. :001_smile: Amy was speaking from the heart and didn't think it seems. Not nitpicking, just trying to clarify. The things are starting to build up.

[mandymom]

I have nothing to say about Sonlight, but no, TOG does not include L/A. It does have an optional writing component, but not L/A.

 

TOG does contain a very extensive literature component, esp in the dialectic level and even more so in the rhetoric level, in addition to a writing program. There is weekly vocabulary for the lower levels as well as occasionally for the upper levels. It does not have handwriting, spelling, or grammar included.

Edited March 17, 2012 by mandymom

[mamaraby]

I'm planning to use Classical House of Learning Literature next year instead of Core B. I like the layout, and it's free! It's secular, but I feel confident discussing our beliefs in context. I'm not switching in response to what Sonlight is doing; CHOLL just looks great and as a bonus will be inexpensive. Right now I'm kind of thinking I might use CHOLL for two years and then go to SL Cores D and then E.

 

I eliminated SL from the running a long time ago, but I've been reading these threads with half an eye as it were because I have recommended it for other families in the past. However, I'm really glad I read this thread today because this is *perfect* for this secular homeschool family. I don't know how I've never heard of it. This will round things out nicely next year!

[boscopup]

I think that this was just a bad example done from the spur of the moment type thing. It was offensive, and thankfully Amy did apologize/regret it. :001_smile: Amy was speaking from the heart and didn't think it seems. Not nitpicking, just trying to clarify. The things are starting to build up.

 

 

:iagree: She apologized as soon as someone pointed out that mistake. Everyone says something wrong like that on occasion (at least, I know I do :tongue_smilie:).

 

I'm waiting to pass judgment on the whole thing until I see the core at convention. If I do use core E new next year, I won't purchase those books. I'm fine with skipping those topics for elementary. If the core is riddled with providential stuff, I'll just buy used like I did this year.

[Kathryn]

Yes, she took it back once people were offended. But, seeing how it demonstrated exactly how we've been treated, it seems pretty indicative of how they're feeling. We're supposed to accept whatever choices Sarita makes for us and buy the Cores, no questions asked. If we don't like it, we can go through the hassle of returning it and choosing a new curriculum halfway through the year. To my knowledge, no one has told them they can't do whatever they please, we've simply asked to be informed what this means for the company's future and why this choice was made. The answers simply don't make sense. First, we're told that nobody knew about John's feelings. Well, that's fine and dandy if it was just a random post on the forum, but this was in the IGs as well. Then, we're told that all book decisions are Sarita's and John had no input at all on books except for Core 400--which has the most complaints. It seems we are being told that they are moving away from Sonlight, the John Years. I don't know, I'm tired of trying to figure it out. I'm tired of waiting for answers and the way customers are being treated. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from liking Sonlight or their product line. I'm just talking about my personal feelings. I'm tired of the way Sonlight the company makes me feel. It's not about any one thing, it's about everything. From now on, they're a book list to me.

[melmichigan]

:iagree: She apologized as soon as someone pointed out that mistake. Everyone says something wrong like that on occasion (at least, I know I do :tongue_smilie:).

 

I'm waiting to pass judgment on the whole thing until I see the core at convention. If I do use core E new next year, I won't purchase those books. I'm fine with skipping those topics for elementary. If the core is riddled with providential stuff, I'll just buy used like I did this year.

 

Everyone makes mistakes, but jeez, Sarita's kids seem to liken their customers to children in times of stress. This isn't the first time, wasn't it her brother that was in the dog house for something similar around this time last year.

[boscopup]

Everyone makes mistakes, but jeez, Sarita's kids seem to liken their customers to children in times of stress. This isn't the first time, wasn't it her brother that was in the dog house for something similar around this time last year.

 

:lol: I haven't been around those forums until very recently, so yeah, I would have no clue of a pattern. I can only judge based on what I've seen.

 

I think the analogy was poorly chosen, but a somewhat accurate one (if you don't take it too literally - ie, comparing adults to children... that part is inaccurate), and she did go into much more detail than anyone else, so I cut her some slack for that. I get the feeling they're not wanting to divulge everything until they do their "big release" (and I agree that the month-long teaser thing is incredibly stupid and probably a huge cause of controversy due to speculation)

 

Honestly, it's tough to be in a situation like that. I've been there, being accused of things that weren't true, trying to diffuse the situation (as an admin of the forum), and having to deal with it harshly because people wouldn't just calm down and talk, and they instead twist every word you say into something completely different from what you believe or meant. So I understand how they feel, even though I still think they need to take the book out and put something more historically (and Biblically) accurate. :tongue_smilie:

 

Maybe the lesson here should be that Sonlight won't teach your kids how to handle controversy in discussion forums, so use something else for that. :lol:

[ZooRho]

Everyone makes mistakes, but jeez, Sarita's kids seem to liken their customers to children in times of stress. This isn't the first time, wasn't it her brother that was in the dog house for something similar around this time last year.

 

yes the have a bad case of foot in mouth disease.