This fits for me as well. I don't have the Core D IG -- I have the 2012 Condensed (1 yr) Core D+E IG and most of that core (which doesn't include Incans, Aztecs, Mayans, or any of the Marshall books, btw), without the American Indian Prayer Guide. How reflective is this sample page of SL's worldview? I can't find any reference to this viewpoint in the D+E IG notes. I have SL's Core P4/5 (2008), Core K (now A)(2009), Core 1+2 IG (now B+C)(2010), Core D+E IG (2012), and Core F (2011). I've also used SL's Science for the A,B, & C levels. I blend with other materials and another curriculum, and have pretty much reached the end of the line with SL -- I'm not keen on the science past C level, or the Cores past F (just looking at the catalog -- I haven't seen any of the upper cores). I'm not 100% sure what SL's worldview is, although I'm pretty sure I'm not quite in line with it. However, the materials I've received have been been a wonderful aid in our homeschooling experience. I've dropped or held off on a few books, made some substitutions. My general impression of the IG notes has been to present multiple views and encourage people to think and question. I believe John leans Old Earth and Sarita leans Young Earth and some books (such as the Marshall books) get added in (apparently with significant editing suggestions) to present a *different viewpoint* (although I haven't seen the viewpoint in the OP sample in any of the materials actually presented to the children). I'm at a bit of a loss as to why the OP sample doesn't have a discussion included of the obvious flaws -- that is what I would expect from my other encounters with SL IG notes. <Shrug> The IG notes aren't something my ds sees at this level. I don't know what we covered for history before 5th grade when I was in public school in the 70's -- what I remember is some library books I read on my own time, what I learned from family members' first hand experiences in the Great Depression, WWII and other events from 1900 on, or stories passed to them from their grandparents living in the mid-Atlantic area during Civil War times, and a couple memorable school field trips. That was about it. I would be comfortable with the Grade K-5 education my ds would get if I stuck with the Cores pretty much as scheduled -- even though we don't :)

The link took me to the same page I found by searching. That history (before my time as a customer) does explain a few things -- although I believe they could have structured their no-resale policy legally, I can see they didn't do their legal homework beforehand, and the horse was already out of the barn -- structuring it legally (a la Calvert style "lease") would probably have gone over like a lead balloon after they'd already raised hackles. I wonder how much that weighed in with the recent choice to go digital -- there are other *good* reasons to go digital, like solving some of their shipping hassles, cutting down on the amount of inventory they *should* carry, and some people liking e-readers and wanting customizable and fillable schedule pages -- but it also gives them a more palatable way to reintroduce legal resale limitations. I don't know anything about what people resold or tried to sell on their used forum -- their forum is extremely slow, and has been most of the time I've used their products. *How to do business* obviously isn't their strong point. I like the format of their curriculum packages that I have purchased though, and have spent a lot of money on other companies' products that didn't work so well for us that required a lot of tweaking, pre-reading, substitutions, and supplementing, that I would like to avoid in the future -- so I hope they get things figured out.

That link didn't work for me, but a quick search took me to their website resale policy -- I noticed that it mentions that any exclusive that is *like a book* rather than a guide or workbook with reproducible pages is free to be resold. It is interesting that their policy says that you are technically able to resell their exclusives, even though they may have been included *free* as part of a full package -- I guess it isn't worth the trouble to them to go through the legal terms to restrict usage by making it a *lease*? So okay, if it is *legal* to resell for those who really want to sell it because they haven't structured the sale as a lease like Calvert does -- what is the gripe?

I haven't purchased anything in digital format. The exclusives can still be purchased in the print form, for use for as long as you like within your family, with associated shipping charges based on size of order, and without some of the additional rights that come along with the digital forms (I believe I have also seen reference to *unless you have purchased a license for use in a homeschool co-op* -- not sure if that was in reference to print or digital). But it wouldn't surprise me if WP failed to obtain legal guidance in how to structure the sale terms before they started selling their products (or use of their products as it may be). I have noted that in the three print catalogs I have (starting with 2010-2011), it is stated up front what their resale policy is on exclusives, with additional information available on their website. I don't see why buying it in print negates the right to sell a product (or right to use a product) they have produced themselves with resale limitations. Would people be happier if they called it a *rental* and removed the right to continue to use the guide as long as you like or with younger family members in the future? The items I *purchased* from Calvert were simply a student workbook and an instructor guide, to go along with CHOW (the text I had already purchased from another vendor), and a similar instructor guide and spiral bound combo small text/workbook for *A Child's Study of Famous Americans*. I decided not to try Calvert's full program based on the terms of their enrichment courses. I continue with WinterPromise because their products work well for us, and I had no desire to resell the exclusives. I keep records in the guides, we write in the workbooks, parts get cut up and glued in other pages or projects -- not much left to sell anyway. It seems to me if the sale (or rental) terms are provided up front, people have the choice to accept them or buy elsewhere.

Because you aren't buying a book that you are free to do with as you choose. You are buying the license to use the curriculum as long as you choose within your immediate family. Are you familiar with Rosetta Stone? I haven't used it, but I understand they sell a license to use their software -- if you try to sell it to someone else when you're done with it, they can't register it and use it on their computer. Have you ever purchased materials from The Calvert School? I purchased a couple enrichment courses from them, and their limitations for reuse of instructor guides is more limited than WinterPromise's. Inside the Lesson Manual it states "As set forth in the Enrollment Agreement, this lesson manual is the property of Calvert School and is leased for use only with the student enrolled." Note that I am not in their programs that provide full curriculum, or grading, or teacher oversight or monitoring in any way -- I simply purchased one of their history enrichment courses to use on my own time and schedule with one child. I certainly can't resell this course to anyone else, and supposedly they offer discounts for repurchase if you choose to teach their curriculum to younger siblings later on (!!) I don't remember the exact wording in the *enrollment agreement*, but I believe it saves me the trouble and expense of returning the guide to them after a year, by allowing me to destroy it myself. It's legal to sell a license to use curriculum produced by the seller, rather than selling it as a book that can be resold. As for customer service, I have purchased three complete themed programs from WinterPromise starting in 2010. Delivery was in parts and slow. I sent e-mails every couple weeks or so updating what was newly received and what was still outstanding. I eventually got everything. Some items came directly from Amazon or other book vendors. Why am I still ordering from them? Because I am an advance planner, and if keeping records and sending periodic e-mails gets me my whole order -- I've been able to deal with it, even if I have a business degree and have worked in very small and very large businesses and sometimes am left scratching my head. But the main reason -- my son has loved the programs, mostly as written, although we haven't done everything on the buffet of suggested activities -- the choice of books, activities, the themes have been right up his alley. I've used another curriculum, as well as supplementary materials, that have arrived in a flash, with tremendous customer service -- but they haven't fit nearly as well. My last order, I took the hint and bought the exclusives and just a few other items and got the rest from Amazon. We'll see how things go in the future. I'm hopeful that the 48-hour downloads for most of the exclusives is a step in the right direction. Since their programs work well for us, I hope they get things figured out!

That small storm was a super derecho with wind speeds from 80 to 91 mph in places. Link from Indiana to the coast, NJ to NC. With a day with no power or internet, I was antsy with the idea that I couldn't log in and surf, even when I wasn't planning to be online, lol.

Not a *soft* drink. Strong or potent, as with hard liquor.

I went ahead and ordered the old Core F. By the time we need it (in a couple years, lol), they may have ironed out the kinks if we want to upgrade. Or I'll be thrilled I didn't wait. I felt a little ill about how much I spent on curriculum this year, but the good news is I won't need to go through this next year. Or maybe the one after that either. :D

Here's a link to Faber's My First Piano Adventure. You can look at the video lesson guide to see if it is something that would appeal to you. The book we got a couple years ago came with a cd to go along with it.

I was thinking I could see young mother for someone under 35 with their oldest still young. I don't think I ever qualified, having my first at 40 and seeing that *Advanced Maternal Age* on my medical chart. :001_smile:

SL turned out to not be a perfect fit for my son, and I didn't feel like *family*, but I did feel that I was welcome to use the parts that worked for us and I made an effort to buy the books I wanted that SL sold from them since they did me the favor of giving me a starting point for making our own plan. I'm a little backwards from the usual, the core IG's are a waste for me, so I got the 2011 LA IG to schedule the readers and for a writing supplement, figuring I was willing to spring the $39.99 for the LA IG to go along with their reader package. I surely won't spend $100+ on a Core IG that I won't use. These latest changes make me feel that if I'm not with them 100%, they'd rather show me to the door. :001_huh:

Okay, I'm still drawn to post. Only before I felt relaxed, but now I feel slightly uneasy. :001_huh: (No cats have been harmed in the making of your avatar?)

I'm new and haven't seen any of your other threads, but I couldn't help but respond to this one. Maybe it was your avatar.

I remember something -- was it a year ago? Two? I think after John resigned -- about not limiting your worldview to parts of your life -- I probably shouldn't say more since I don't remember quite how it was said -- in any case, I wasn't familiar with whatever it was she read, so it sounded to me at the time like less of a change in core beliefs and more a commitment to reflect her beliefs in all areas of her life. Maybe that includes a more conscious effort to reflect her worldview in the curriculum? I had the impression John leaned OE and Sarita leaned YE. At the lower cores and science I have, John has notes here and there to give the parent the heads up that material is coming up where parents will need to discuss their own beliefs with their children. I wonder how long John's notes will stay in the IG's.

From their history, the idea was conceived by Sarita and another mom, who helped with making the curriculum (I don't know how long she was involved), but the business was Sarita and John.

I was subscribed to one of those threads, and the posts were landing in my e-mail. It got locked when a poster got on to defend SL and made some rather accusatory comments about the complainers, and there were posts responding to that. It was closed *for the weekend*. It may be a long weekend. I wish people could resist questioning the motives of other posters on threads where SL is actually talking -- it gives them the best excuse to make the thread disappear.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm not an old-timer customer from way back, but I came in when John wasn't long gone -- and it was his 27 reasons NOT to buy that drew me in. I can't work with their new cores. I'm set for a year or two, but if they keep on this track, I will probably have to move on elsewhere myself. I'm not as invested in the company, but I can certainly understand why others are upset.

I haven't read this thread that closely, so forgive me if you've posted elsewhere to make the answer obvious, but you do realize that Sarita wasn't hired by the Board to replace John, but that this was a Mom and Pop business Sarita and John started in their garage years ago? Sarita has always been president. John has been the public relations face of the business, in charge of customer service, marketing, and otherwise actively involved, who people saw and felt they knew. If John and Sarita always had different views, it wasn't all that obvious -- and now it doesn't shock me that the customers who loved Mom and Pop from way back would be wondering if it was just Pop who loved them back, and feeling more than a tad betrayed, and a bit hurt that Mom and the kids notice being used as a book list more than appreciating the dollars spent by the loyal customers over the years that could have gone somewhere else?

For SL LA, someone asked about being able to upgrade a LA IG in the future, and SL's response was that there would be nothing to upgrade, because the LA won't be available separately for core D and above. It appears to me it won't be optional, and it won't be available separately (except for cores A - C, where you can pick based on your child's reader level). I wonder if there was much of a market for the separate LA. As for WP, I was wondering why people on their forum were passing up the full package IG discount and buying off Amazon until I placed my first order -- on August 18th with a planned September start -- newbie error :lol:

From what I've seen over the last three years, I doubt it. I think John, with his degree in philosophy, enjoyed a good debate and was in his element on the forums. I think they grew into something that the people at Sonlight now don't want to have to deal with since he's not participating in them anymore. I think Sonlight would like nothing better than for their forums to be a happy, friendly place where nobody posts anything but recipes, questions about how to help Sammy with his spelling, or asks for advice on what core would be best for a family with a 4, 6, and 7 yo. I suspect Sarita dislikes conflict enough that she'd rather have her business shrink than deal with forum controversies.

I just went over to youtube and looked up Sonlight curriculum and watched the entire 54 minute video John Holzmann did on the history of Sonlight for the company's 20th. The beginning gives good insight into the backgrounds of John and Sarita and how they balanced each other so well. The last 15 minutes or so gives an explanation why John began pulling back for the next generation of the company and I found heartbreaking for his personal emotional investment in the company and customers and the toll it had on him.

I am so thrilled to have stumbled across this forum and thread this evening! I was delaying conception plans while on the 2-year waiting list for a prestigious academic pre-conception zygote school. It never occurred to me that I could begin now at home!

Hi! I don't post here much, hope nobody minds me just barging in. I believe Sarita has always been president of Sonlight. If you look at their history, they started the company up as an idea Sarita had with a friend and fellow homeschooling neighbor, but the business aspect was Sarita and John's from the beginning. John resigned from day-to-day operations and pretty much dropped out of active participation in the forums in 2008.

Although a promise was made of more information to come when the thread I was following was locked, I'm not sure I need more info at this point. If it was a flap about a completely new book, I might hold judgment. The complete about face after John's eloquent assessment is remarkable. I really don't want to support sales of books like that for a child under 10, no matter what notes they may include in the new IG. I had my box day today of my selections from the 2011 D+E. I didn't get the IG. It may be my last SL box day. I'll be using SL's lit that I just got, that I'll schedule in with WinterPromise's American Crossing. WP's shipping isn't anything like SL's, but I can plan around it and I actually like what I've gotten from them in a couple other programs.

Hi:) I rarely post, but I'll share my experience as a child. I got a puppy (German Shepherd) for my 10th birthday. The dog was loyal to the whole family, but I spent the most time with her and was the most frequent feeder, so she seemed to have just a little more attachment to me. I gave her some basic obedience training (sit, heel), and then when she was about 6 mo old or so, we participated in a 4H dog training workshop, with mostly 8-11 yo kids with adult dogs. One boy was 6 yo with a Great Pyranees (yep, it was taller than him). His mother had enrolled him so the dogs would be more respectful of him, and apparently she thought it helped. He was able to get the dog to sit and heel for him. At the end of the workshop, we had a "show" for our families. My sister did one or two of the categories with my dog, and I did the others with her. The dogs generally were loyal to their families in general. My dog would obey commands (such as heel, sit, down, stay) for anyone in our family. The only problems of confusion about who is master I would see would be if different family members gave different commands at the same time to the dog. The one problem we had with our dog was that she was not much different in size than me and we lived in a rural area, and especially as a young dog, could be carried away if other dogs ran around loose or a wild animal ran by. We walked her on a short leash so that we could easily let go and let her run if need be without her tripping -- such as when that skunk called ....