TXBeth Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I know it's crazy, but I'm actually thinking of starting Beast as soon as we finish Singapore 2A in a couple weeks. Well, actually, we'll take a couple of weeks "break" to just play math games, practice mental math and math facts, explore some mental math strategies we haven't covered yet, and then do the assessment. Then, I'm thinking we'll use a little Beast each week as our fun math day, while doing Singapore 2B the rest of the days. Is that crazy? I just really don't see anything in the scope & sequence of SM2B that would help prepare DD for Beast. It seems like everything needed has been covered already. And...I would love for her to learn multiplication the AoPS way before she memorizes multiplication tables with Singapore. Any opinions on that? It seems crazy to start a challenging 3rd grade program without finishing 2nd grade first, but I'm thinking we'll take it really, really slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviya Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Mine just came!! Connecticut. I thought I had shown restraint, but apparently I did spring for the priority shipping. It was 3:30am :blush::blush::blush: By the way, I LOVE the "nerds" tag on this thread. I am resolutely not looking at it until tomorrow. My younger dd is almost 8, working through SM 6A. My plan is to integrate BA while she completes SM 6A and B and then continue with BA until she's ready for the pre-algebra book. So probably a year and a half or so. I think the depth of this prevents it from being boring or just review. The sample chapter was awesome. I anticipate this will really solidify her understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I know it's crazy, but I'm actually thinking of starting Beast as soon as we finish Singapore 2A in a couple weeks. Well, actually, we'll take a couple of weeks "break" to just play math games, practice mental math and math facts, explore some mental math strategies we haven't covered yet, and then do the assessment.Then, I'm thinking we'll use a little Beast each week as our fun math day, while doing Singapore 2B the rest of the days. Is that crazy? I just really don't see anything in the scope & sequence of SM2B that would help prepare DD for Beast. It seems like everything needed has been covered already. And...I would love for her to learn multiplication the AoPS way before she memorizes multiplication tables with Singapore. Any opinions on that? It seems crazy to start a challenging 3rd grade program without finishing 2nd grade first, but I'm thinking we'll take it really, really slowly. Â It's what I would have done had BA been released last year at this time. Â I would note that while BA does lay some ground-work with other things prior to multiplication, that memorizing the times tables does play a promenent role in BA's approach to multiplication. Â Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Can anyone who has it in hand talk to me about the teacher notes? Are they pretty substantial like the solutions to the pre-tests? Â Because while I think ds will love it, I'm not sure I can teach it well. :blushing: He has already asked several questions about the assessment that I don't feel like I answered adequately. Â There are fairly detailed solutions (ones appropriate to the complexity of the questions) in the back of the Practice books. Â Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 It's what I would have done had BA been released last year at this time. I would note that while BA does lay some ground-work with other things prior to multiplication, that memorizing the times tables does play a promenent role in BA's approach to multiplication.  Bill  Oh, I'm definitely not opposed to memorization of times tables. I think it's important unless you want to spend hours on math every day. It's just that I think once she memorizes them, she won't be as likely to think deeply about what they mean. So I'd rather have her think and understand first and memorize second. Singapore theoretically works this way, but in reality they ask for memorization about 2 days after introducing the concept. Doing this will also give me a "safety net." If BA ends up not being a good fit, I can always drop it after 3B and we will still be on the same track we were to continue with Singapore 3 this fall. On the other hand, if BA is as good as I expect it to be, I might not order Singapore 3 after all, or at least not the HIG.  In any case, I'm glad to hear you approve of my plan. I was hoping you would chime in. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Our copy is here! Alex loves it. I can't wait until she goes to bed, so I can read the whole thing, guide and practice together, and figure out what the true difficulty level is. Â I love the games, like the angle mazes and the shape-drawing game. This is a fabulous book! Â My main reservation has to do with how long it will take us to whip through the whole thing... I'm thinking fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 My main reservation has to do with how long it will take us to whip through the whole thing... I'm thinking fast. Â This is one of my reservations too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nov05mama Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Our copy is here! Alex loves it. I can't wait until she goes to bed, so I can read the whole thing, guide and practice together, and figure out what the true difficulty level is. I love the games, like the angle mazes and the shape-drawing game. This is a fabulous book!  My main reservation has to do with how long it will take us to whip through the whole thing... I'm thinking fast.  :iagree: LOVING it so far!!!! I am going to have to make sure he doesn't fly through this like he did singapore since the next books will take a while.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogwoodMama Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 DD (2nd grade) has only officially "completed" only Singapore 2a but has been "discovering" the multiplication tables on her own and has shown the ability to understand many concepts in 2b on her own, she just literally doesn't want to go through the Singapore program b/c of issues with how it is presented/learning style fit. She is also finishing up 2nd grade, about to start 3rd grade. :) So since she is the right age/maturity we are immediately dropping Singapore and going to Beast Academy. If we have to pause and fill in along the way, that's fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Â My main reservation has to do with how long it will take us to whip through the whole thing... I'm thinking fast. Â The Practice book should slow you down. Â Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Oh, I'm definitely not opposed to memorization of times tables. I think it's important unless you want to spend hours on math every day. It's just that I think once she memorizes them, she won't be as likely to think deeply about what they mean. So I'd rather have her think and understand first and memorize second. Singapore theoretically works this way, but in reality they ask for memorization about 2 days after introducing the concept. Â We are totally on the same page. BA does some preliminary work with patterns, skip-counting (better than it sounds), and geometry subjects that "imply" multiplication....but when they hit multiplication they lay down the law that the beasts need to memorize their times-tables. Â They actually get dressed-down by a drill-sergeant, Sergeant Rote (believe-it-or-not :D) in a boot-camp who makes it clear in no uncertain terms that they will master their times-tables. Stg. rote is an extreme guy :tongue_smilie: Â Doing this will also give me a "safety net." If BA ends up not being a good fit, I can always drop it after 3B and we will still be on the same track we were to continue with Singapore 3 this fall. On the other hand, if BA is as good as I expect it to be, I might not order Singapore 3 after all, or at least not the HIG. Â In any case, I'm glad to hear you approve of my plan. I was hoping you would chime in. :) Â I wish we had had it a year ago (not complaining) and your plan would have been my plan. As it is I have to figure out my own plan. I would like to retain as much Primary Mathematics as I can, I still see the value there. But BA is unique. Â Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 I had excused Alex from school today because we have houseguests. She insisted on doing a math lesson anyway, and then asked if she could have more Beast Academy instead of a bedtime chapter. Â Anyone noticed the cute little side references? For example, on page 26, among all the regular pigeons, there's a Mo Willems "Don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus" pigeon. Page 50 has a sly "This is Spinal Tap" reference. I'm sure there are more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 USPS says my Beast Academy package is in San Diego...but I HAZ IT!! Â dd8 called her father in Indiana to tell him all about it. We've been reading through it this afternoon. It was such a nice surprise when I wasn't expecting it until Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nov05mama Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Question for those of you who have the books in-hand now... Â How do you think you will 'plan' it out? Will you even try? I've already been throwing all our plans for the upcoming year into HST+, but when it comes to BA, I am not even sure where I would begin?! Â Will you do a Chapter sub-section per week? per day? Obviously, some chapters will take more time than others. Will you do BA daily then? Or have another schedule in place? (MWF, TTh) Â Surely I'm not the only one trying to think this through?? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Question for those of you who have the books in-hand now... How do you think you will 'plan' it out? Will you even try? I've already been throwing all our plans for the upcoming year into HST+, but when it comes to BA, I am not even sure where I would begin?!  I don't have book in hand, but I do use HST+. This may be one of those things that you just list as "Beast Academy" and not list exactly what to do. Put a sticky tab in the book where you are, and pick up there each day. :)  I've used the weekly assignments thing for subjects like this (AAS was a good example, where I knew we needed to do spelling each day, but I didn't have any idea how the lessons would plan out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Oh, it's here, it's here!!!! Â I have not mapped out how we are going to use it yet, but I am very happy with the quality of the materials. I was also happy to hear the 6yo say she wished they had one for first graders. I told her that she can use it when she's ready. Â I had planned on using it as a supplement, but may have to rethink that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractalgal Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Â Who else is planning to be guinea pigs with us? Â Well, we've not used Beast Academy, but my daughter did tell me recently (before I noticed all these BA threads) that AOPS Algebra is her favorite math she's ever used...which has caused me to take a second look. Â Keep us posted as to how its working out. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 There is a warfare in my household. My husband (the family mathematician here) doesn't want to start BA until my little boy is at least 7.5 years old (that was negotiated down from 8 year old). We both have been pouring over the pages. His verdict - the program needs maturity (frustration level, focus...) that he believes is still lacking. He wants to do SM 4A over the next 6 months. I was just holding CWP3 and boy it looks like a joke after the polyomino mazes. I am so conflicted. I don't know. I think we should give it a try (this is a kid that learned long division in 2 examples), but more I sit with problems more I see his point that maturity is a must here and maybe he will get more out of it at 8. I just don't think I can sit with those books for six month or a full year and do nothing. I don't have self restraint at all. what to do... :001_unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Â I've already been throwing all our plans for the upcoming year into HST+, but when it comes to BA, I am not even sure where I would begin?!For programs like BA, I list all the exercises in the Lesson Plan tab, but don't assign/schedule them. Instead I enter the finished exercises (from the Lesson Plan tab) at each day's end. If you wanted an entry for BA listed with the assignments, you could always have a "dummy" generic entry for each day in addition to the a "proper" (after the fact) entry under a slightly different name. If time tracking is important, it's easier to enter it once in the dummy entry and assign all the exercises as "0" minutes, rather than divvy up time between exercises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 There is a warfare in my household. My husband (the family mathematician here) doesn't want to start BA until my little boy is at least 7.5 years old (that was negotiated down from 8 year old). We both have been pouring over the pages. His verdict - the program needs maturity (frustration level, focus...) that he believes is still lacking. Â I wonder too about the maturity or personality required to deal with hard problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I wonder too about the maturity or personality required to deal with hard problems. Yes. I will be very interested to hear in about 6 month what Rivka and Bill report and how they deal with challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 What I think so far: there are a few lessons that are wonderful precursors to lessons in the Prealgebra book. See, e.g., squares, 3B Guide 59-65/3B Practice 51-55 and this Prealgebra lesson, and of course the last chapter in 3B on the distributive property. I might even make dd do them :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 re: hard problems, I noticed this note at the bottom of 3B Guide p. 98: If you're stuck on a problem, do something! Trying some possible answers can help you see patterns that help you get unstuck. Â This suggestion is also included in RR's article on hard problems. Â So, as much as personality issues can play a role with trying hard problems, learning little strategies such as this one may prove useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaffodilDreams Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 We ordered 3A yesterday, so we'll be guinea pigs, too. I plan to start with dd8 as soon as it arrives. A big thanks to the people who posted pics of the comic layouts in the review thread. That helped me decide to give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtney.byrum Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 My kids are very interested and we were all laughing while reading the samples the other day. Â My one question is: Do they both need a practice book or would one be enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I really appreciate that they put a page in there about the importance of definitions and vocabulary. It really ties in well with discussions we've been having in other areas. Â (I know! It's a bendy straw!") :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 re: hard problems, I noticed this note at the bottom of 3B Guide p. 98: "If you're stuck on a problem, do something! Trying some possible answers can help you see patterns that help you get unstuck. "  This suggestion is also included in RR's article on hard problems.  So, as much as personality issues can play a role with trying hard problems, learning little strategies such as this one may prove useful.  Yes, there are other places in the guide where they give explicit advice like that, and where the beasts model useful approaches for a problem you don't know how to answer - such as trying a simplified version first.  Yes. I will be very interested to hear in about 6 month what Rivka and Bill report and how they deal with challenges.  Me too. :D I think we, in particular, will be a good test case because Alex is quite young and because she really struggles with perfectionism. I am conscious of our responsibilities to the Hive, as early adopters, :lol: and I promise to update regularly.  My kids are very interested and we were all laughing while reading the samples the other day. My one question is: Do they both need a practice book or would one be enough?  There will be some parts where your kids could simply write down their answers on a separate sheet of paper, but there are other parts where you'd really want to make a copy of the actual sheet, because the exercise is something like a maze or big number chart that would be a pain in the neck to hand-copy. At $12, I think I'd probably spring for two copies if I had two kids doing BA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Yes. I will be very interested to hear in about 6 month what Rivka and Bill report and how they deal with challenges. Â I ordered them last week, and I'm scheduled to receive them this coming week. My son is good at math, and I had first coincided the 3A/3B with Singapore Math. Since he's in 4A Singapore, I wasn't going to order it. BUT, now I realize that he'll have a great time with them, and I hope he loves the cartoons and problems as much as I think he will. Â Can't wait to see if they get his math juices going. Maybe if I tell him that they are for someone else :) And just.... let him borrow them :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I really appreciate that they put a page in there about the importance of definitions and vocabulary. It really ties in well with discussions we've been having in other areas. Â (I know! It's a bendy straw!") :lol: Â The kids and I stumped DH on this one the other night. The kids thought it was absolutely hilarious. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I really appreciate that they put a page in there about the importance of definitions and vocabulary. It really ties in well with discussions we've been having in other areas. Â (I know! It's a bendy straw!") :lol: Â The kids and I stumped DH on this one the other night. The kids thought it was absolutely hilarious. :lol: Â The game that goes along with that page is really great. Print the cards from the website - there are more of them. We didn't have enough people to make two teams, so we played round-robin with Alex, Mom, and Dad. We took turns being the draw-er, the describer, and the judge. The draw-er and describer each got a point for every one they got right, and the judge got a point every time the describer used a forbidden word. After each round we switched roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 GREAT NEWS!!!!! Stubbornness can sometimes be a good thing. There is nothing like an annoying wife that wonĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t stop yapping the entire weekend the same thing into your ear. :D So, we reached a compromise! If our boy could do 10 random problems (not challenges) without any help from content he knows (skip counting, multiplication, etc), we would give it a try. As soon as my kid saw the skip counting mazes, we couldnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t pry the book out of his hands. Not only he got every one of randomly assigned problems right! + all the mazes of course. SO BA IS A GO HERE! We have two weeks to tie loose ends on SM and then we agreed to start. The decision is to keep SM (at least for now). I am suppose to stay out of picture on challenge problems and let him tackle alone (I believe this is unusually cruel). I really want to know how you guys are approaching challenges. WE ARE ON BOARD!!! I WON THIS WAR! :D:D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 GREAT NEWS!!!!! Stubbornness can sometimes be a good thing. There is nothing like an annoying wife that wonĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t stop yapping the entire weekend the same thing into your ear. :D So, we reached a compromise! If our boy could do 10 random problems (not challenges) without any help from content he knows (skip counting, multiplication, etc), we would give it a try. As soon as my kid saw the skip counting mazes, we couldnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t pry the book out of his hands. Not only he got every one of randomly assigned problems right! + all the mazes of course. SO BA IS A GO HERE! We have two weeks to tie loose ends on SM and then we agreed to start. The decision is to keep SM (at least for now). I am suppose to stay out of picture on challenge problems and let him tackle alone (I believe this is unusually cruel). I really want to know how you guys are approaching challenges. WE ARE ON BOARD!!! I WON THIS WAR! :D:D:D  Like I really believed this was a war you were going to lose :D  Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Like I really believed this was a war you were going to lose :DÂ Bill :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 GREAT NEWS!!!!! Stubbornness can sometimes be a good thing. There is nothing like an annoying wife that wonĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t stop yapping the entire weekend the same thing into your ear. :D So, we reached a compromise! If our boy could do 10 random problems (not challenges) without any help from content he knows (skip counting, multiplication, etc), we would give it a try. As soon as my kid saw the skip counting mazes, we couldnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t pry the book out of his hands. Not only he got every one of randomly assigned problems right! + all the mazes of course. SO BA IS A GO HERE! We have two weeks to tie loose ends on SM and then we agreed to start. The decision is to keep SM (at least for now). I am suppose to stay out of picture on challenge problems and let him tackle alone (I believe this is unusually cruel). I really want to know how you guys are approaching challenges. WE ARE ON BOARD!!! I WON THIS WAR! :D:D:D  :hurray:  As for challenges, I do the same that I do with any other "stumps" they may run across in their work (not just math or BA). First, they have to read the question to me, because sometimes it's 'not understanding the question' and not so much 'not knowing the answer' that is the problem. If they do understand the question, then I tend to ask leading questions. What do you need to find out? What do you already know? It's hard to write it out without having an actual problem as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 His verdict - the program needs maturity (frustration level, focus...) that he believes is still lacking. He wants to do SM 4A over the next 6 months. I was just holding CWP3 and boy it looks like a joke after the polyomino mazes. Â GREAT NEWS!!!!! I am suppose to stay out of picture on challenge problems and let him tackle alone (I believe this is unusually cruel). I really want to know how you guys are approaching challenges. WE ARE ON BOARD!!! I WON THIS WAR! :D:D:D Â Yaaay! Have fun! I'll look forward to hearing about your experiences. Â As far as how we're approaching challenges... Â Right in chapter 1, we hit a section that I think is very hard. It's where you are supposed to make several complicated shapes with tetrominoes (i.e., the shapes from the game Tetris). All the problems on the page are starred - I think there are six of them. There isn't really a method to apply, as far as I can tell - it's trial and error and geometric insight. I really have to puzzle and work to get the right answers myself. Â Alex did the two easiest while looking at the corresponding picture in the guide, with good motivation and a "just for fun," experimental attitude. The third one she tackled gave her serious pause. She started to melt down and complain that it was impossible. I sat beside her and offered steady encouragement and some reminders. ("Remember, you're allowed to flip them over.") When she continued to be frustrated, we peeked at the hint. Â She tried a little more and still couldn't do it. While she was looking the other way, I did a little experimentation and figured out the right answer. I quickly disassembled it, left one piece in place, and told her "Oh, hey! I figured it out! You're on the right track with the things you were just trying. It starts with this one." Knowing that I had done it, and having one piece done for her, cheered her up and allowed her to finish. Â Looking at the rest of the puzzles on the page, I knew that we couldn't spend a whole math lesson working on them or there would be a nuclear meltdown. I affirmed that they are very tough, and told her that we would do one a day, mixing them in with other kinds of problems. Â So today I gave her a bunch of the toothpick puzzles (pretty easy) and then stuck a tetromino puzzle in the middle. She tried several arrangements without much luck. After she worked steadily for a few minutes, I gave some advice - "Why don't you start with that U shape at the top, because there are only a few ways you could combine the pieces to make that." With no further assistance, she finished the puzzle in about a minute and was very proud that she didn't need the hint in the back of the book. Â The last two tetromino puzzles look very, very hard to me. We'll use the same strategies: warm up on easier problems, lots of encouragement, affirmation that it is a real struggle and that it's okay not to know the answer, occasional advice about the approach, judicious reference to the hint in the back of the book. If she can't do one, we'll move on to other things and come back to it the next day. Â Remember that they aren't supposed to be able to do all the starred ones right away. There's a helpful panel in the "how to use this book" section which reminds kids of that. Go back and reread that when meltdowns threaten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nov05mama Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I don't have book in hand, but I do use HST+. This may be one of those things that you just list as "Beast Academy" and not list exactly what to do. Put a sticky tab in the book where you are, and pick up there each day. :) Â Yeah, I've had that much figured out since that's what I do for SOTW as well. I am still trying to figure out if we should do some BA each day, or if we should do more of a M,W,F routine with it. I sat down with the Practice book last night and even if we did a practice page a day 5 days a week (some were 2 page spreads), it would take about 6 wks to get completely through 3A working straight through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I just received it today (order 11 and 12 from BA site shipped media mail). Â In looking through it I sure don't see much addition work. In MM3 my ds did extensive amounts of 3 digit adding and subtracting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It was interesting (to me anyway :D) doing the first section in skip-counting last night. The little-man is so used to problem solving using re-grouping strategies that skip counting became a forced issue. Â When, for sake of example, he was supposed to skip count the total number of spikes on 9 porcupods (which each have 15 spikes) he glanced at the pictures and said: 135! Â I was like, whaa? We are skip counting. Â 9 Tens are 90. 9 Fives are 45. 90+45 is 135. Distributive Law. Â Uh yes William, but we are skip counting. Try it again please. Â Group Porcupods into two groups of Four with one left over. 60+60 is 120. 120+15 is 135. Â Yes William, but did I happen to mention we are skip counting? Â Fine. 15, 30, 45.....135. See?! I told you!!! Â It may be a long year :tongue_smilie: Â Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Yaaay! Have fun! I'll look forward to hearing about your experiences. As far as how we're approaching challenges...  Right in chapter 1, we hit a section that I think is very hard. It's where you are supposed to make several complicated shapes with tetrominoes (i.e., the shapes from the game Tetris). All the problems on the page are starred - I think there are six of them. There isn't really a method to apply, as far as I can tell - it's trial and error and geometric insight. I really have to puzzle and work to get the right answers myself.  Alex did the two easiest while looking at the corresponding picture in the guide, with good motivation and a "just for fun," experimental attitude. The third one she tackled gave her serious pause. She started to melt down and complain that it was impossible. I sat beside her and offered steady encouragement and some reminders. ("Remember, you're allowed to flip them over.") When she continued to be frustrated, we peeked at the hint.  She tried a little more and still couldn't do it. While she was looking the other way, I did a little experimentation and figured out the right answer. I quickly disassembled it, left one piece in place, and told her "Oh, hey! I figured it out! You're on the right track with the things you were just trying. It starts with this one." Knowing that I had done it, and having one piece done for her, cheered her up and allowed her to finish.  Looking at the rest of the puzzles on the page, I knew that we couldn't spend a whole math lesson working on them or there would be a nuclear meltdown. I affirmed that they are very tough, and told her that we would do one a day, mixing them in with other kinds of problems.  So today I gave her a bunch of the toothpick puzzles (pretty easy) and then stuck a tetromino puzzle in the middle. She tried several arrangements without much luck. After she worked steadily for a few minutes, I gave some advice - "Why don't you start with that U shape at the top, because there are only a few ways you could combine the pieces to make that." With no further assistance, she finished the puzzle in about a minute and was very proud that she didn't need the hint in the back of the book.  The last two tetromino puzzles look very, very hard to me. We'll use the same strategies: warm up on easier problems, lots of encouragement, affirmation that it is a real struggle and that it's okay not to know the answer, occasional advice about the approach, judicious reference to the hint in the back of the book. If she can't do one, we'll move on to other things and come back to it the next day.  Remember that they aren't supposed to be able to do all the starred ones right away. There's a helpful panel in the "how to use this book" section which reminds kids of that. Go back and reread that when meltdowns threaten.  Thank you!!! This is exactly what I am looking for. I think your approach is the right approach. My husband got this crazy idea in his head that unless a child can do this without help, he shouldn't be doing it at all. Seeing so many challenging problems clustered together also gave us a pause. What doesn't help is DH can take one quick look at those challenge problems and give you a right answer (what do you mean how I did it? Are you blind? Can't you see the patterns?) and he thinks if we just wait for a year, our son will be able to do just that. I keep telling him that I graduated with As in math and I can't solve some of this (really speaks to my teacher). I don't think the lack of "magic vision" is a maturity issue. I think if we break apart challenging work (just like you did), we will be just fine. I have nothing to report yet, but the first section completed and skip counting mazes (probably the easiest parts of the program). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thank you!!! This is exactly what I am looking for. I think your approach is the right approach. My husband got this crazy idea in his head that unless a child can do this without help, he shouldn't be doing it at all. Â Uhhh... then what are teachers for? Why have them at all? Â I confess that I went through some similar worries myself, when we were doing MEP - along the lines of, "but if I have to help her with some of this, does that mean I am cheating by accelerating her?" The lesson plans were a revelation to me, with their straightforward recommendations about hints, supports, "abler students may...", and "in the discussion, elicit that..." It's just not supposed to be a child alone in a closet, unsullied by any assistance. Â Your DH should read about the zone of proximal development (Vygotsky). Children learn the most when adults boost them just a tiny bit above what they could do without help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What doesn't help is DH can take one quick look at those challenge problems and give you a right answer (what do you mean how I did it? Are you blind? Can't you see the patterns?) and he thinks if we just wait for a year, our son will be able to do just that. I keep telling him that I graduated with As in math and I can't solve some of this (really speaks to my teacher). I don't think the lack of "magic vision" is a maturity issue. I think if we break apart challenging work (just like you did), we will be just fine. Â I see two issues here: 1- your husband is much older and better educated than your son. I don't expect my kids to know as much as I do. I can take one look at any number of third grade (or twelfth grade) things and answer them immediately. That doesn't mean an 8 year old can. Â 2- my experience with HSing parents who hand the kid a book and walk away is not good. Especially in math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Uhhh... then what are teachers for? Why have them at all? I confess that I went through some similar worries myself, when we were doing MEP - along the lines of, "but if I have to help her with some of this, does that mean I am cheating by accelerating her?" The lesson plans were a revelation to me, with their straightforward recommendations about hints, supports, "abler students may...", and "in the discussion, elicit that..." It's just not supposed to be a child alone in a closet, unsullied by any assistance.  Your DH should read about the zone of proximal development (Vygotsky). Children learn the most when adults boost them just a tiny bit above what they could do without help.  This is it! He is worried that I might be helping "too much" and potentially impeding his learning (you learn when you struggle philosophy). Periodically he sits with him just to make sure he really is where I say he is and then wonders in amazement. He is worried we have no way of telling how much he really can do on his own if we always sit by his side. He thinks assistance should be mostly centered on "teaching the new concept", not on solving problems that are suppose to measure if a child understands the concept. I get it. That's how my school was set up. Nobody helped us with homework, but then we didn't do BA :D  Thanks for book recommendation.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 In looking through it I sure don't see much addition work. In MM3 my ds did extensive amounts of 3 digit adding and subtracting. Â Thank goodness. My younger son would rather poke his eyeball out with a pencil that to keep doing that over and over again. I mean, once you can add/subtract with borrowing/carrying isn't doing it with 2 digit number essentially the same thing to do it to 10 digit numbers (excluding mental math techniques)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I just received it today (order 11 and 12 from BA site shipped media mail). Â In looking through it I sure don't see much addition work. In MM3 my ds did extensive amounts of 3 digit adding and subtracting. Â BA assumes that multidigit addition and subtraction are already well established. Which is a bit tricky for us, as MEP only does 2-digit mental addition in 2nd grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 BA assumes that multidigit addition and subtraction are already well established.Are there questions in BA 3A or 3B which require this? Or will I be able to just introduce it when it comes up in MEP and not worry about teaching it ahead of starting BA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 This is it! He is worried that I might be helping "too much" and potentially impeding his learning (you learn when you struggle philosophy). Periodically he sits with him just to make sure he really is where I say he is and then wonders in amazement. He is worried we have no way of telling how much he really can do on his own if we always sit by his side. He thinks assistance should be mostly centered on "teaching the new concept", not on solving problems that are suppose to measure if a child understands the concept. I get it. That's how my school was set up. Nobody helped us with homework, but then we didn't do BA :DÂ Thanks for book recommendation.! Â I know that there are math programs which are set up so that a concept is taught and then practiced/applied, but I don't think that BA is one of them. There is definitely new teaching in the practice book, plus, I think you're supposed to arrive at some discoveries just via attempting the practice problems. Â MEP was the same way. The student pages had some sections that were supposed to be "okay, you've learned how to do this, so just do it" - but there were other sections that were clearly meant to be used as teaching tools, walked through together, and not as simple application of a pre-taught principle. Â Maybe your husband should e-mail Ruszyck and ask him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Are there questions in BA 3A or 3B which require this? Or will I be able to just introduce it when it comes up in MEP and not worry about teaching it ahead of starting BA. Â It's funny, because the pretest so emphasizes that skill, but I don't think so. My first impression is that most of the addition and subtraction needed for 3a and 3b is of the sort that someone with MEP mental math skills will be able to do without any trouble. But I would definitely work on identifying and understanding place value in large numbers, because large numbers come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thanks a lot Rivka - like I needed to add more books to my reading list :glare: Â :lol: Any particular Vygotsky book I should start with? They all look so interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Are there questions in BA 3A or 3B which require this? Or will I be able to just introduce it when it comes up in MEP and not worry about teaching it ahead of starting BA.  The pre-assessment says: Before beginning Beast Academy 3A, a student should be comfortable adding and subtracting multi-digit numbers and must have a solid understanding of place value. I wouldn't worry too much about it if your dc can add two digits (which you can extrapolate to more digits). This should come into play with skip counting. I haven't noticed subtraction in there just yet, though I've only skimmed through. FWIW, one of my kiddos can multiply single digits - he can skip-count too - but AFAIK he has not yet been taught about carrying/regrouping, etc. He's not quite ready for BA yet, but he did understand the very first lesson on angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I shouldn't have posted above. I'm in a grumpy mood and having a not so great day. It definitely comes across in my post. :001_huh: Â Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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