Comparing Protestantism and Catholicism

[knit247]

I hope you all can stand another Protestant / Catholic post. All of the posts on the subject this past year or so have been fascinating to me. So much so that I started RCIA last fall. As I posted recently, I am starting to have some serious questions and I feel like the more questions I have, the less I know. I am not even sure that I am joining/can join the Church at the Easter Vigil, which distresses me further...

 

I won't go into every single question that I have ;) but I do have a "for instance": I grew up (Presbyterian and United Methodist) hearing/believing that in order to be forgiven, all I had to do was ask for forgiveness from God and I would be forgiven. Catholics believe that confessing to a priest is the way it was intended to be. I have read the verses that Catholics use to support that, and it makes sense to me. So, why did I learn it another way? And where can I find the Protestant statements explaining and supporting it? Other questions I have relate to Purgatory, praying to saints, etc. I never believed in Purgatory or prayed to saints as a Protestant, and I want to know why that is not the norm. Where can I find explanations/supporting statements for the Protestant "side"? How strange that I grew up Protestant yet have no idea about any of this... I am not doubting what I was taught as a Protestant at all - I just want to know where to go to find the "why"s of it.

 

Is this even making any sense? Am I looking for some sort of apologetics, and if so should it be from my particular denomination? I wish I had someone to talk to - someone well-versed in Protestant theology, maybe. Sometimes I feel like I need to take a converting to Protestantism class to learn why it is that I believe the way I do (did - do - did)...:tongue_smilie: I'm just not sure that I can join the Catholic Church until I really know both viewpoints, yet I am scared that I am so bent own finding the "right" church, that I will never find it...

 

Anyone know where I should start???

 

ETA: I just emailed the pastor at the United Methodist church where I grew up. He is fairly new, and my parents just told me that he graduated from a Catholic university and has brought many "Catholic-like" traditions to our church. They like him very much and think he would be more than willing to talk with me!

Edited February 12, 2012 by knit247

[JFSinIL]

We do not pray to saints - we pray asking the saints to pray for us to God. Just like folks here ask each other to pray for this or that person. Can't hurt to have the Blessed Virgin (for example) take notice and say a prayer on our behalf!

 

Asking saints to pray for us does not prevent us from also doing our own praying to God. I am sure the folks who post "please pray" threads here are also doing their own praying and not relying on the prayers of others.

 

You should also take these questions to the folks leading your RCIA classes. You won't be asking anything they have not heard before, I suspect.

[knit247]

Ooops - I am sorry if I said it wrong. In my RCIA class we are always taking about praying "to" saints, but I totally understand that it is not like praying "to" God. It is asking them to pray for us just like we would ask a friend here on earth to do so. :)

 

ETA: sadly our RCIA instructor is not very approachable. He knows an amazing amount of information (to the point of overload - one recent class had 30-some pages of typed notes), but really doesn't take to questioning well. The class is honestly him giving a lecture for an hour and all of us sitting there, furiously taking notes.

Edited February 12, 2012 by knit247

[dirty ethel rackham]

Wow, That is a shame that your RCIA team is not welcoming questions. Questions are part of the process. I would have a sit-down with the pastor of this parish to not only ask the questions you seek answers to, but also to let him know that they are NOT being answered in RCIA.

[justamouse]

Wow, That is a shame that your RCIA team is not welcoming questions. Questions are part of the process. I would have a sit-down with the pastor of this parish to not only ask the questions you seek answers to, but also to let him know that they are NOT being answered in RCIA.

:iagree::iagree:

[justamouse]

I hope you all can stand another Protestant / Catholic post. All of the posts on the subject this past year or so have been fascinating to me. So much so that I started RCIA last fall. As I posted recently, I am starting to have some serious questions and I feel like the more questions I have, the less I know. I am not even sure that I am joining/can join the Church at the Easter Vigil, which distresses me further...

 

I won't go into every single question that I have ;) but I do have a "for instance": I grew up (Presbyterian and United Methodist) hearing/believing that in order to be forgiven, all I had to do was ask for forgiveness from God and I would be forgiven. Catholics believe that confessing to a priest is the way it was intended to be. I have read the verses that Catholics use to support that, and it makes sense to me. So, why did I learn it another way? And where can I find the Protestant statements explaining and supporting it? Other questions I have relate to Purgatory, praying to saints, etc. I never believed in Purgatory or prayed to saints as a Protestant, and I want to know why that is not the norm. Where can I find explanations/supporting statements for the Protestant "side"? How strange that I grew up Protestant yet have no idea about any of this... I am not doubting what I was taught as a Protestant at all - I just want to know where to go to find the "why"s of it.

 

Is this even making any sense? Am I looking for some sort of apologetics, and if so should it be from my particular denomination? I wish I had someone to talk to - someone well-versed in Protestant theology, maybe. Sometimes I feel like I need to take a converting to Protestantism class to learn why it is that I believe the way I do (did - do - did)...:tongue_smilie: I'm just not sure that I can join the Catholic Church until I really know both viewpoints, yet I am scared that I am so bent own finding the "right" church, that I will never find it...

 

Anyone know where I should start???

 

ETA: I just emailed the pastor at the United Methodist church where I grew up. He is fairly new, and my parents just told me that he graduated from a Catholic university and has brought many "Catholic-like" traditions to our church. They like him very much and think he would be more than willing to talk with me!

 

To understand your questions about Protestantism, you're really going to have to read the history of Luther and Calvin and Zwingli. Read their own words.

 

The Healing Power of Confession by Dr. Scott Hahn. It's so much more than asking forgiveness.

 

Signs of Life: 40 Catholic Customs and their Biblical Roots.

Have you checked out the conversion stories at Why I'm Catholic? They have them listed by former denomination and they're fascinating. They will answer a lot of your questions in a way that you may feel more connected to.

[NotAVampireLvr]

Former Catholic chiming in. (not going to Catholic bash - I greatly respect the religion - its just not how we practice our faith anymore)

 

Anyhow - one big difference between Catholics and Protestants is that Catholics recognize the Apocrypha in the bible and Protestants do not. There is some Catholic teaching that comes from those books. I'm thinking of salvation by works /vs/ salvation by grace, a huge difference in beliefs.

 

As far as intercession of saints - there are bible verses that can be interpreted as being supportive or non-supportive so its really how you choose to interpret those verses.

 

There are huge differences between Protestantism and Catholicism... I would suggest reading up on both sides... if your RCIA group isn't aswering questions, definitely push and talk to the parish priest. There is a lot free info online about the differences between the two ... usually biased one way or the other, but its there. I know there are a lot of people on both sides here to answer any questions you might have.

[camikins2010]

Umm, really? Post a link in hopes that she'll click on it and see that the RCC is thw 'whore of babylon' and abandoning the bible and forget joining that horrible RCC?

 

I used to attend churches like that, before I decided to become Catholic.

 

The major thrust of the Reformation is that the Roman Catholic Church had abandoned the Bible in favor of the traditions of man. One of the major tenets of the Protestant Reformation is sola scritura (scripture alone). Man's word or traditions does not have any biblical authority at all.

[Parrothead]

Former Catholic chiming in. (not going to Catholic bash - I greatly respect the religion - its just not how we practice our faith anymore)

 

Anyhow - one big difference between Catholics and Protestants is that Catholics recognize the Apocrypha in the bible and Protestants do not. There is some Catholic teaching that comes from those books. I'm thinking of salvation by works /vs/ salvation by grace, a huge difference in beliefs.

 

As far as intercession of saints - there are bible verses that can be interpreted as being supportive or non-supportive so its really how you choose to interpret those verses.

 

There are huge differences between Protestantism and Catholicism... I would suggest reading up on both sides... if your RCIA group isn't aswering questions, definitely push and talk to the parish priest. There is a lot free info online about the differences between the two ... usually biased one way or the other, but its there. I know there are a lot of people on both sides here to answer any questions you might have.

Catholics do not believe in salvation by works.

[i.love.lucy]

This article has some comparisons. It is written from a Protestant viewpoint as far as I can tell. In my somewhat limited knowledge of Catholicism (never having taken a class like you are) I can't see anything erroneous about what the article states Catholics and/or most Protestants believe, but you'll have to see that for yourself. I didn't see anything incorrect in it's statements about Protestants.

[NotAVampireLvr]

Catholics do not believe in salvation by works.

 

 

works based salvation then? Coming from a very traditional Catholic family (my brother is a priest, father a deacon) this is what I was taught. As far as I know there are Catholics who believe this and many who do not... but it was how I was brought up.

Edited February 12, 2012 by NotAVampireLvr

[Parrothead]

I hope you all can stand another Protestant / Catholic post. All of the posts on the subject this past year or so have been fascinating to me. So much so that I started RCIA last fall. As I posted recently, I am starting to have some serious questions and I feel like the more questions I have, the less I know. I am not even sure that I am joining/can join the Church at the Easter Vigil, which distresses me further...

You still have time. Continue to learn all you can. Please don't decide in the next week or two. But if you do decide that you are not ready, you will be welcome next year after you've settled everything in your mind to your satisfaction. :grouphug:

 

 

I won't go into every single question that I have ;) but I do have a "for instance": I grew up (Presbyterian and United Methodist) hearing/believing that in order to be forgiven, all I had to do was ask for forgiveness from God and I would be forgiven. Catholics believe that confessing to a priest is the way it was intended to be. I have read the verses that Catholics use to support that, and it makes sense to me. So, why did I learn it another way? And where can I find the Protestant statements explaining and supporting it? Other questions I have relate to Purgatory, praying to saints, etc. I never believed in Purgatory or prayed to saints as a Protestant, and I want to know why that is not the norm. Where can I find explanations/supporting statements for the Protestant "side"? How strange that I grew up Protestant yet have no idea about any of this... I am not doubting what I was taught as a Protestant at all - I just want to know where to go to find the "why"s of it.

It isn't really an either or situation for some of your above questions. As Catholics we can always, always talk to God. We can even be forgiven by God without going through Reconciliation. ;) But it isn't the norm for us. We do love our outward signs - our sacraments. Receiving the sacraments does both our bodies and our souls good. So that is why we do things the preferred way.

 

As for the saints, Catholics are not required to ask the saints in Heaven for intercession. If that isn't something you can wrap your head around now, it isn't a deal breaker.

 

On the other hand, as a whole Protestant Christians do or don't do thing alike or differently from Catholic Christians because at one point their learned men decided that what Catholics were/are doing doesn't jive with the Bible. We all know the Bible often seems to have conflicting testimony. Without the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition these learned men did/do not have the full truth as we, Catholics, know it. With only Sacred Scripture our separated brothers and sisters in Christ have what we perceive as a skewed view of things. (And to them we are the ones with the skewed perception.)

 

As such each Protestant Christian denomination believes something ever so different from the others. Otherwise the only Protestant denomination in existence would be the Lutherans. To pin down why each one believes different than the Catholics do, one would need to know which denomination one is referring to.

 

Is this even making any sense? Am I looking for some sort of apologetics, and if so should it be from my particular denomination? I wish I had someone to talk to - someone well-versed in Protestant theology, maybe. Sometimes I feel like I need to take a converting to Protestantism class to learn why it is that I believe the way I do (did - do - did)...:tongue_smilie: I'm just not sure that I can join the Catholic Church until I really know both viewpoints, yet I am scared that I am so bent own finding the "right" church, that I will never find it...

Have you checked online for a Catholic vs. ______ Christian chart/graph/opinion piece? Or if you can give a specific (do you want both Methodist and Presbyterian POVs?) demomination that you want to hear from? Maybe someone well-versed in that particular denomination can chime in or volunteer to answer your questions.

 

 

Anyone know where I should start???

It seems that you already have. :D

 

ETA: I just emailed the pastor at the United Methodist church where I grew up. He is fairly new, and my parents just told me that he graduated from a Catholic university and has brought many "Catholic-like" traditions to our church. They like him very much and think he would be more than willing to talk with me!

If there is any way I can help PM me.

[Parrothead]

works based salvation then? Coming from a very traditional Catholic family (my brother is a priest, father a deacon) this is what I was taught. As far as I know there are Catholics who believe this and many who do not... but it was how I was brought up.

There may be Catholics who are badly catechized and think that is what they believe but it is not what the church teaches by any means.

[Parrothead]

This article has some comparisons. It is written from a Protestant viewpoint as far as I can tell. In my somewhat limited knowledge of Catholicism (never having taken a class like you are) I can't see anything erroneous about what the article states Catholics and/or most Protestants believe, but you'll have to see that for yourself. I didn't see anything incorrect in it's statements about Protestants.

The article has bits of truth wrapped around bits of error. It is an interesting read, but not entirely truthful about what the Catholic church teaches.

[albeto]

Check out this link...

 

http://www.noiseofthunder.com/articles/

 

Oh this is brilliant!

 

Thank you so much!

 

a new documentd titled The Gift of Scripture that instructs parishioners to be aware that certain parts of the Bible are not actually historically true.

 

Because you know, God could totally have made Eve from Adam's rib after he got lonely and created them at the same time. True story.

 

POPE BENEDICT KISSES THE BLOOD OF JOHN PAUL II

 

Ewww! Icky Catholics. Darn cannibals.

 

Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.

 

But you'll never hear that about Catholics. Or Jews. Or Muslims. Or Hindus. Or Pagans. Or...

 

Srsly, gold here. Thank you.

[Parrothead]

The major thrust of the Reformation is that the Roman Catholic Church had abandoned the Bible in favor of the traditions of man. One of the major tenets of the Protestant Reformation is sola scritura (scripture alone). Man's word or traditions does not have any biblical authority at all.

The Catholic church never abandoned the Bible. And certainly not in favor of traditions of man. The Catholic church differentiates between Sacred Tradition and traditions of man. Sacred Tradition is that from which the Sacred Scriptures were written.

 

Dei Verbum (Latin meaning "The Word of God") is a Second Vatican Council’s document on divine revelation. It says, 'The relationship between Tradition and Scripture is explained: "Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

"Thus, by the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence."

[Parrothead]

Check out this link...

 

http://www.noiseofthunder.com/articles/

There is not truth to any of that at all. It is all propaganda and untruths. Could you possibly argue with actual truths? This just makes you look scared and silly. And on a classical education message board, it is just sad.

[Parrothead]

Oh this is brilliant!

 

Thank you so much!

 

 

 

Because you know, God could totally have made Eve from Adam's rib after he got lonely and created them at the same time. True story.

 

 

 

Ewww! Icky Catholics. Darn cannibals.

 

 

 

But you'll never hear that about Catholics. Or Jews. Or Muslims. Or Hindus. Or Pagans. Or...

 

Srsly, gold here. Thank you.

Really? :confused:

[albeto]

Really? :confused:

 

Really.

 

The idea that one guy has it all figured out, warning everyone else about those pesky other [dangerous] Christian-wanna-be's is great to use as an analytic exercise. Read what he's really saying. Note the implications he offers. Take control of your beliefs. Know what you believe and why. What's wrong with that?

[Parrothead]

Really.

 

The idea that one guy has it all figured out, warning everyone else about those pesky other [dangerous] Christian-wanna-be's is great to use as an analytic exercise. Read what he's really saying. Note the implications he offers. Take control of your beliefs. Know what you believe and why. What's wrong with that?

Because the linked article is spreading lies and half-truths.

 

I do agree with your last bit. Know your faith and know it well. Nothing wrong with that. But as this is not a religious message board it isn't cool to post stuff that bashes someone's faith. We have many Catholics, a few Jewish moms, a couple handfuls of Muslims, along with others

 

Oh, and one Guy did figure it all out. His name was Jesus. The same One I, as a Catholic, walk with daily.

[justamouse]

The major thrust of the Reformation is that the Roman Catholic Church had abandoned the Bible in favor of the traditions of man. One of the major tenets of the Protestant Reformation is sola scritura (scripture alone). Man's word or traditions does not have any biblical authority at all.

 

Yes, I know exactly what I walked away from, you don't need to educate me on it.

 

It started with coming to the conclusion that Sola Scriptura has caused about 40,000 denominations. Which is in itself against what the bible says. (Father Luther didn't plan on his nailed thesis' going the way it did, and at some points he deeply regretted it. He also believed in confession, asking Mary and the saints for intercession, and the Immaculate Conception of Mary. He also suffered deeply from scrupulosity, and in the end I think it would be safe to question his sanity.)

 

1 Cor 1-10

10Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. 16Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

Gal 5:19-21

16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

That's the first of the long list of Sola Scriptura's offenses to the body of Christ. Edited February 12, 2012 by justamouse
clarity

[I.Dup.]

Check out this link...

 

http://www.noiseofthunder.com/articles/

 

I seriously am so ashamed that I actually hung out with and learned from Protestants who believe this nonsense. I am a Catholic now, after going through a RIGOROUS study over the past year. I grew up protestant.

 

AFA the OP, some things you just have to step out on faith. Not everything has to click all at once.

[Bluegoat]

I hope you all can stand another Protestant / Catholic post. All of the posts on the subject this past year or so have been fascinating to me. So much so that I started RCIA last fall. As I posted recently, I am starting to have some serious questions and I feel like the more questions I have, the less I know. I am not even sure that I am joining/can join the Church at the Easter Vigil, which distresses me further...

 

I won't go into every single question that I have ;) but I do have a "for instance": I grew up (Presbyterian and United Methodist) hearing/believing that in order to be forgiven, all I had to do was ask for forgiveness from God and I would be forgiven. Catholics believe that confessing to a priest is the way it was intended to be. I have read the verses that Catholics use to support that, and it makes sense to me. So, why did I learn it another way? And where can I find the Protestant statements explaining and supporting it? Other questions I have relate to Purgatory, praying to saints, etc. I never believed in Purgatory or prayed to saints as a Protestant, and I want to know why that is not the norm. Where can I find explanations/supporting statements for the Protestant "side"? How strange that I grew up Protestant yet have no idea about any of this... I am not doubting what I was taught as a Protestant at all - I just want to know where to go to find the "why"s of it.

 

Is this even making any sense? Am I looking for some sort of apologetics, and if so should it be from my particular denomination? I wish I had someone to talk to - someone well-versed in Protestant theology, maybe. Sometimes I feel like I need to take a converting to Protestantism class to learn why it is that I believe the way I do (did - do - did)...:tongue_smilie: I'm just not sure that I can join the Catholic Church until I really know both viewpoints, yet I am scared that I am so bent own finding the "right" church, that I will never find it...

 

Anyone know where I should start???

 

ETA: I just emailed the pastor at the United Methodist church where I grew up. He is fairly new, and my parents just told me that he graduated from a Catholic university and has brought many "Catholic-like" traditions to our church. They like him very much and think he would be more than willing to talk with me!

 

You know, there is no rule that says joining the Catholic Church, or any other, has to be this Easter. Discernment is important and should not be rushed.

 

I'd also suggest that in general, looking to Catholics or RCIA instructors for information about Protestant belief is not the best idea. The minister your parents pointed you too may be a good resource - Methodism in general has well educated clergy with a sensible historical approach - there are however exceptions to that.

 

So - your questions - I am going to speak mainly here from a fairly main-line Protestant position - more modern groups have come out of that same tradition but developed it in one direction or another

 

The question of Confession to a priest: An important word here is necessity - the necessity of confession to a priest. What does that mean in a Catholic context? Under normal circumstances, if someone has committed a mortal sin, they must confess to and be absolved by a priest to be forgiven. For venial sins this is not necessary. And in modern times it is usually taught that in the case that it is impossible to do this (say you die before you can find a priest) you will likely still be forgiven. However, it is not all that clear that has always been taught in the past by the Catholic Church.

 

An important point to understand from a Protestant historical context is penance. While the CC teaches that those who confess are forgiven, they still are considered responsible for the temporal punishment from sin. If this does not happen in this life it will have to be served in purgatory. So doing a penance given by the priest has the effect of reducing or negating that time to be spent in purgatory.

 

Now, Confession is not wholly absent from the Protestant tradition. It can sometimes be found in Lutheran churches and often in Anglican ones, possibly others. The big difference is that while these groups would say it is often very beneficial, it is not considered necessary - it is entirely possible for individuals to confess directly to God and to be forgiven. The importance of the idea that individuals are directly incorporated into the body of Christ as individuals as well as part of the Church is very great for protestantism, and this is reflected in the tendency to support direct confession.

 

There are a few other issues. One is that the Protestant Reformers rejected the strict separation between mortal and venial sin which makes the idea that one type of sin always means a complete rejection of God less clear. (And, honestly, modern Catholicism also recognizes that the status o sin is contextual to the individual and situation, which raises questions about how one knows if any particular sin is mortal or not.)

 

Additionally, the Reformers strongly objected to the penance system I described above and the idea of temporal punishment for sin. This was connected to the use of indulgences which was a huge hot-button for the Reformers, so this also tended to make they turn against the idea of the necessity of Confession to a priest.

 

Purgatory: The first question here is, in Catholicism, what is purgatory? It is at it's most basic level the idea of a "place" or state of being after death where we are purified from all the things we hold onto that separate us from God - habits, things we didn't get around to letting go of in life. This may or may not include a concept of time - there is no definitive teaching on whether time passes as such in purgatory.

 

However, that itself is not a particularly Catholic teaching. Many Protestants and the Orthodox would be quite alright with the idea of something like that after death. But it is again the idea of a place of temporal punishment for sins that was particularly troublesome to the Reformers, and the related idea of the Treasury of Merit. So many Protestants would be comfortable to say there may be a type of purification of our remaining sinful attachments after death, but not with saying that this is a kind of debt owed for past sins which could be negated by doing penance or receiving an indulgence from the Treasury of Merit. So the thing specifically being objected to is actually fairly subtle.

 

And then the final issue with purgatory is making it a dogma, something that must be believed as a salvation issue. Both the reformers and the eastern Church have strongly disagreed with making purgatory a requirement like this, and especially with making the supposed details about how it works, which were a late development in the Tradition of the Church and never existed in the East, a requirement.

 

Praying to saints in the more traditional protestant groups is also not cut and dried - Anglicans also do it,, and Lutherans may - Martin Luther was himself very dedicated to Mary. The tendency to move away from it in the Reformation was related to the increased emphasis on a personal connection to Christ, and also a reaction against abuses and misunderstandings about the role of saints - saints, for example, were big money makers, and fake relics of saints were very common.

 

Now, in modern times some Protestant groups have developed a rather unorthodox set of beliefs about the afterlife - for example saying that those in Heaven are sleeping and unaware of anything - and this is a separate reason for those groups denying the idea of praying to saints.

 

I'm afraid I don't have a general resource to suggest, but I hope this is somewhat helpful.

[albeto]

Because the linked article is spreading lies and half-truths.

 

That's why I was being sarcastic.

 

I do agree with your last bit. Know your faith and know it well. Nothing wrong with that. But as this is not a religious message board it isn't cool to post stuff that bashes someone's faith. We have many Catholics, a few Jewish moms, a couple handfuls of Muslims, along with others

 

My comment wasn't meant to bash but to illustrate some of those lies and half-truths. I doubt the poster who linked that sees them as lies and half-truths. I don't doubt she believes very sincerely (and compassionately) that Catholics are deluded and misled by their leaders and this website may open some eyes to the "truth." Simplifying an idea to its base foundation makes it more difficult to focus on the sugar-coating, especially when the bitter foundation is taking center stage.

 

Oh, and one Guy did figure it all out. His name was Jesus. The same One I, as a Catholic, walk with daily.

 

I know. Everyone says that about their beliefs.

[Parrothead]

That's why I was being sarcastic.

 

 

 

My comment wasn't meant to bash but to illustrate some of those lies and half-truths. I doubt the poster who linked that sees them as lies and half-truths. I don't doubt she believes very sincerely (and compassionately) that Catholics are deluded and misled by their leaders and this website may open some eyes to the "truth." Simplifying an idea to its base foundation makes it more difficult to focus on the sugar-coating, especially when the bitter foundation is taking center stage.

 

 

 

I know. Everyone says that about their beliefs.

Oh, I see. Sorry. I missed the sarcasm part. I thought you were being serious.

[justamouse]

 

Additionally, the Reformers strongly objected to the penance system I described above and the idea of temporal punishment for sin. This was connected to the use of indulgences which was a huge hot-button for the Reformers, so this also tended to make they turn against the idea of the necessity of Confession to a priest.

 

 

 

Just pointing out that the RCC did reform itself on the abuse of indulgences. ;)

 

(I'm sure you know) It had to do with the lack of communication within the church in the Medieval ages (feudalism and taxing travelers brought communication within the church to a halt, and the people ended up electing Bishops instead of being appointed by the Pope, then the bishops later were being appointed by the monarchy, which brought a whole host of problems/abuses).

[Parrothead]

 

The question of Confession to a priest: An important word here is necessity - the necessity of confession to a priest. What does that mean in a Catholic context? Under normal circumstances, if someone has committed a mortal sin, they must confess to and be absolved by a priest to be forgiven. For venial sins this is not necessary. And in modern times it is usually taught that in the case that it is impossible to do this (say you die before you can find a priest) you will likely still be forgiven. However, it is not all that clear that has always been taught in the past by the Catholic Church.

 

 

I just want to clarify one little thing since Father __ recently pointed it out to our parish. The priest who hears one's confession is acting in the role of Jesus on earth. Not that he has delusions of grandeur, and thinks he is Jesus. Catholics believe that when one says one's confession to a priest, one is saying one's confession to Jesus. It is Jesus via the Holy Spirit that grants absolution. The priest is just the one saying the words.

 

(FTR a priest can deny absolution.)

[justamouse]

Oh, I see. Sorry. I missed the sarcasm part. I thought you were being serious.

 

Malfunctioning sarcasm font strikes again. :tongue_smilie:

[simka2]

Just pointing out that the RCC did reform itself on the abuse of indulgences. ;)

 

(I'm sure you know) It had to do with the lack of communication within the church in the Medieval ages (feudalism and taxing travelers brought communication within the church to a halt, and the people ended up electing Bishops instead of being appointed by the Pope, then the bishops later were being appointed by the monarchy, which brought a whole host of problems/abuses).

 

OP, I wonder if this has something to do with why it is so difficult to find the answers you are looking for from a Protestant perspective. I know for me it was difficult to wrap my theological brain around the fact that the RC did reform itself. It makes me wonder if Luther would write his 95 thesis against the RC of today. Just something I think about every once in awhile. :D

[Parrothead]

Malfunctioning sarcasm font strikes again. :tongue_smilie:

Honestly! Don't we have a smiley for that? :D

[Parrothead]

OP, I wonder if this has something to do with why it is so difficult to find the answers you are looking for from a Protestant perspective. I know for me it was difficult to wrap my theological brain around the fact that the RC did reform itself. It makes me wonder if Luther would write his 95 thesis against the RC of today. Just something I think about every once in awhile. :D

Now you've gone and done it. I want to google the Thesis and compare them to today's church. Like I don't have anything better to do. ;)

[albeto]

n/m

Edited February 12, 2012 by albeto

[cathmom]

I highly recommend the book How to Go from Being a Good Evangelical to a Committed Catholic in Ninety-Five Difficult Steps. It is so thought-provoking!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Committed-Catholic-Ninety-Five-Difficult/dp/1610970330/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329085654&sr=8-1

[I.Dup.]

I highly recommend the book How to Go from Being a Good Evangelical to a Committed Catholic in Ninety-Five Difficult Steps. It is so thought-provoking!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Committed-Catholic-Ninety-Five-Difficult/dp/1610970330/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329085654&sr=8-1

 

It looks like you can read most of it through the "Click to look inside" link there on Amazon. Looks good!

[justamouse]

I highly recommend the book How to Go from Being a Good Evangelical to a Committed Catholic in Ninety-Five Difficult Steps. It is so thought-provoking!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Committed-Catholic-Ninety-Five-Difficult/dp/1610970330/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329085654&sr=8-1

 

:lol: Talk about truth in advertising. That's a title. :001_smile:

[NotAVampireLvr]

I would also recommend Scott Hahn - he converted from Protestantism to Catholicism. I believe he might have been Presbyterian. Rome Sweet Home is the book I think where he chronicles his journey. Its written by he and and his wife.

[ElizaG]

About the "praying to saints" thing... I've seen some Catholics saying defensively that we don't do this, and just wanted to clarify. We do talk about praying to Mary, the saints, and the angels, but this doesn't have anything to do with worship. "Pray," in the older and broader sense, just means "ask, entreat, implore." For instance, "Let me go, I pray you!" or "Pray tell me the way to London."

 

As for information about what Catholics believe about other issues such as grace and works, I'd suggest visiting the web site of Catholic Answers, whose tracts have been approved by their bishop as being free of doctrinal and moral errors. Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth might be a good place to start.

[Joanne]

OP, this probably isn't at all what you are looking for. And I sure don't mean to discourage learning and study - I just graduated after 2.5 years at a seminary.

 

But one way to look at it is not that one denomination is "right" (although I have to admit that I am radical enough to take out denomination and use "religion"). It is that the Bible is intentionally and by design ambiguous and vague. We, humans, have tried to literalize it and make it clear (thereby taking away the nuance and sophistication and room for growth).

 

Instead of "right", I believe in "right for me" or "right for me at this time". I even believe that God embraces the denominations as a couple of hundred different ways to encourage relationship.

[JFSinIL]

http://asksistermarymartha.blogspot.com/

 

You can ask Sister at the link above questions, too - also her blog is great to search for info. Sister is cool beans!

[Little Nyssa]

OP, it sounds like you have quite a journey ahead, figuring all this out! Best wishes for it, and there's no rush. :001_smile:

[Ellie]

Anyhow - one big difference between Catholics and Protestants is that Catholics recognize the Apocrypha in the bible and Protestants do not. There is some Catholic teaching that comes from those books. I'm thinking of salvation by works /vs/ salvation by grace, a huge difference in beliefs.

It was the Catholic Church that decided which writings would be included in the Canon (e.g., the Bible). Those books were what Christians used for over 1000 years. No, "salvation by works /vs/ salvation by grace" was not part of the books which Martin Luther removed. It was purgatory (although the reason for the removal of those books is more involved than that).

[Ellie]

works based salvation then? Coming from a very traditional Catholic family (my brother is a priest, father a deacon) this is what I was taught. As far as I know there are Catholics who believe this and many who do not... but it was how I was brought up.

How is "works-based salvation" different than "salvation by works"?? :confused:

[Ellie]

There may be Catholics who are badly catechized and think that is what they believe but it is not what the church teaches by any means.

:iagree:

[justamouse]

I highly recommend the book How to Go from Being a Good Evangelical to a Committed Catholic in Ninety-Five Difficult Steps. It is so thought-provoking!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Committed-Catholic-Ninety-Five-Difficult/dp/1610970330/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329085654&sr=8-1

 

This book is WIGGING ME OUT. You know, you think you're doing it on your own, that you're the only one who sees the things and quietly tries to excuse themselves from the party because it just got a little too uncomfortable...until you find that there's a whole swath of you. Everything in that first chapter, the whole run down on the culture, everything.

 

That guy was in my head. I am Glued to the pages and had to buy it.

 

He being a sociologist is the definably strong point of this book.

Edited February 13, 2012 by justamouse

[SueinNC]

Oh, I see. Sorry. I missed the sarcasm part. I thought you were being serious.

 

I missed it too and thought she was serious.

[SueinNC]

This book is WIGGING ME OUT. You know, you think you're doing it on your own, that you're the only one who sees the things and quietly tries to excuse themselves from the party because it just got a little too uncomfortable...until you find that there's a whole swath of you. Everything in that first chapter, the whole run down on the culture, everything.

 

That guy was in my head. I am Glued to the pages and had to buy it.

 

He being a sociologist is the definably strong point of this book.

 

 

I had to look! I just ordered it too.

[justamouse]

I had to look! I just ordered it too.

 

Reading the sample was like being time warped back 11 years. I actually had to stop because he just got everything so right that I couldn't take how it was making me feel.

 

Tell me what you think when you're done!

[JenniferB]

:grouphug: I'm converting to The Orthodox Church from Protestant Christianity. Baby steps - don't rush - it's a difficult journey back to the ancient Church.

[SueinNC]

 

Tell me what you think when you're done!

 

 

Will do!

[ma23peas]

God does not want you to be anxious for anything, do not let this become your decision without Him guiding you, ask for Him to reveal to you the way you should go...he never fails.

As you can see through history, man's understanding often brings any form of worship to a crossroads, but the one thing that has remained constant is God, Alpha and Omega...I was so awed by the cathedrals I witnessed in England and Italy. To know the hundreds of thousands who tried in their own way to worship the best they could...the same Father we worship today, we are all doing the best we can...but we are human and are not perfect, seek His perfect will and ou will do well.