Plucky Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I wouldn't mind it so much if he didn't have the stereotypical "creative" personality along with impulse control issues. What will he choose when he is surrounded by drugs and alcohol? He is a musical genius. I know all moms say this, but his teachers are always entirely amazed. I should get better teachers, too but I can't afford it. I keep telling him he can study music at a uni. He's not impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca VA Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Maybe you could tour along with him? Make it a family project? I'm sure his band mates will enjoy your home cooking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Maybe you could tour along with him? Make it a family project? I'm sure his band mates will enjoy your home cooking! LOL! His dad is the better cook, and it's from his side that ds gets musical ability. Oy! Thanks for making me laugh. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Ok my ds was going to be a famous heavy metal drummer at13. Granted he's not talented and realized he wasn't when he got older. Your ds may change when he's older too. It is my understanding that for some people pursuing art really isn't a choice, it's just what they have to do. I think studying at conservatory/university could be great for some people and in your shoes I would encourage it. I 'd find positive ways to encourage it. If it were my son, and I pushed too hard ds would ignore my viewpoint my view would lose--even if it made sense. Ds would stubbornly need to prove me wrong. Who knows your ds could be like Dave Grohl and you could find yourself wondering about finishing high school. His mother, a high school English, said Dave did a lot of things well, but not school. She decided he would learn more touring Europe than in the last 4 months of high school. he's done pretty wel. You never know how things will turn out. You just have to evaluate the circumstances when the time comes and you can't reason with a 13yo, you will lose every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 encourage him to study business and management, so when he is touring he won't get ripped off by the band's manager that keeps all the proceeds and then the band members have nothing when their fans are no longer interested.;) Paul McCartney stuided classical music. it's more demanding and will make him a better musician who is more likely to make a long-term career out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) nevermind Edited January 30, 2012 by radiobrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 encourage him to study business and management, so when he is touring he won't get ripped off by the band's manager that keeps all the proceeds and then the band members have nothing when their fans are no longer interested.;) Paul McCartney stuided classical music. it's more demanding and will make him a better musician who is more likely to make a long-term career out of it. :iagree::iagree: Danny Elfman is another who studied a lot of classical music, and all kinds of things.:001_wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Has he read The Savvy Musician? http://www.amazon.com/Savvy-Musician-Building-Earning-Difference/dp/0982307500/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I12XOSSCUVRPTO&colid=3P4MCYPF6WC0Q While it may not change his mind, it will at least give him solid advice on what it means to make responsible and intelligent plans on making a living as a musician. A couple other good choices: Lessons From a Street-Wise Musician http://www.amazon.com/Lessons-Street-Wise-Professor-Learn-Schools/dp/098286390X/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I37BBQFZWYOI1N&colid=3P4MCYPF6WC0Q and Beyond Talent http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Talent-Creating-Successful-Career/dp/0195382595/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3IQ1ACI45NL40&colid=3P4MCYPF6WC0Q Hope these help. :grouphug: ETA: Just noticed that your child is only 13yo. Still good books to read (although you might want to pre-read), and plenty of time to make solid plans. Edited January 30, 2012 by Susan in TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I know some colleges have Music/Business combo majors, because they realize that not everyone will make it as a performer or not make it right away. So it is better to be working within the industry at a better paying job, than waiting tables. Also there is an Arts Administration major or Masters for those who what to run an orchestra, museum, art gallery. I may not help with a band, but there is a business side even to rock and roll. General business, marketing, law are all aspects of the "music business". I had a friend who really wanted to be an actress. She set a limit of age 30. If she wasn't successful by age 30, then she would give it up and go into something else. She is now into something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 He's only 13. I wouldn't discourage anything he aspires toward right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 encourage him to study business and management, so when he is touring he won't get ripped off by the band's manager that keeps all the proceeds and then the band members have nothing when their fans are no longer interested.;) Paul McCartney stuided classical music. it's more demanding and will make him a better musician who is more likely to make a long-term career out of it. I may do that. My ds has studied classical as well. I just want him to be happy and safe. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Has he read The Savvy Musician? http://www.amazon.com/Savvy-Musician-Building-Earning-Difference/dp/0982307500/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I12XOSSCUVRPTO&colid=3P4MCYPF6WC0Q While it may not change his mind, it will at least give him solid advice on what it means to make responsible and intelligent plans on making a living as a musician. A couple other good choices: Lessons From a Street-Wise Musician http://www.amazon.com/Lessons-Street-Wise-Professor-Learn-Schools/dp/098286390X/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I37BBQFZWYOI1N&colid=3P4MCYPF6WC0Q and Beyond Talent http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Talent-Creating-Successful-Career/dp/0195382595/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3IQ1ACI45NL40&colid=3P4MCYPF6WC0Q Hope these help. :grouphug: ETA: Just noticed that your child is only 13yo. Still good books to read (although you might want to pre-read), and plenty of time to make solid plans. I may read those books. He has been saying this since he was 11. He's not really an institution type person. Homeschooling has been a good fit for him, he likes taking classes, too. He is very creative and I do need to be ready if he does do this. No one would be surprised if he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I know some colleges have Music/Business combo majors, because they realize that not everyone will make it as a performer or not make it right away. So it is better to be working within the industry at a better paying job, than waiting tables. Also there is an Arts Administration major or Masters for those who what to run an orchestra, museum, art gallery. I may not help with a band, but there is a business side even to rock and roll. General business, marketing, law are all aspects of the "music business". I had a friend who really wanted to be an actress. She set a limit of age 30. If she wasn't successful by age 30, then she would give it up and go into something else. She is now into something else. I tend to be very pragmatic. I like to have something to fall back on. I would like him to do some more music study, and he can play in a band on the side until ummm he's fortunate enough to tour. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 He's only 13. I wouldn't discourage anything he aspires toward right now. I don't. The fact is that it is likely he will take this route either full time or part-time. He is soooo lucky he's not my first-born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My cousin is a drummer. He has stuck with some musicians for a while, currently he plays for whomever needs him when they come to the city for a concert. He never went to uni for it, but he is excellent. His father(my uncle) was a sound guy for when bands came to town he got into drugs etc and so my cousin knew the devestating effects that has on a family and stayed far away from it. When he is not playing a gig he is a personal trainer at a gym. My cousin was 12 or 13 when he started drum lessons. We all laughed when he said he was going to play drums for a living and would say "no really. What are you going to do with your life?" And he would repeat "play drums". He has made a pretty good life for himself, between his gigs drumming and doing personal training he has the money he needs for he and his gf to live well and he gets to earn that living doing something he loves. My sister used to date a bass player. He and his buddies were in a high school band. They also always said they were never going to uni, they were going to be musicians. They actually got their big break while just out of high school and have been rolling the in the dough, touring etc since. As far as I know they all stayed away from the drugs etc that permeate the music business. My sister is still best friends with his cousin and talks to him a couple times a year. If he is truly gifted and has the drive to succeed in this business he can but I would encourage a back up career for the dry times. He doesn't have to go to uni for that, but it sure would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I agree with the those who say college is not needed for a career as a musician. However, the musicians I know (moldy oldies -- my FIL wrote a hit song in the 60's and he is in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame for it.) have shared they wished they took the time to really study music. My FIL cannot read music -- but plays by ear. He is very talented. He went to college and has a degree in Fire Science. Which was a smart move. He had a brief period of success in Hollywood. The one-hit wonder made millions. But his agent took off with most of it. What was left helped the family build a very nice nest egg to invest and make six figures annually. Once his song popularity died down he decided to be a fire fighter. He worked from 1972-1980 as a Fire Captain and hoped to have a full career -- but was injured and was on disability. Fortunately, his nest egg from the hit song came in handy to help him "retire" at age 44. FIL would be the first one to tell any budding musician to always have a Plan B (i.e. family and children need a roof over their head and food in their bellies) if the music thing doesn't work out. And he would suggest to study music theory while in high school. Intern at a music store or radio station. Do a gig at a coffeeshop. Begin teaching lessons to beginning students. FIL has always said what a racket the music teachers have with charging $100 a month for a 30 minute lesson -- once a week. If he knew how to read notes, he'd supplement his income as a retiree that way. ;) I agree. Having a studio in the home (or converting the garage) for work and lessons is a great gig -- his future wife may love the fact he is home instead of away on tour? ETA: I'm not going to lie about the culture with concerts and bands. There is a lot of promiscuity, drugs, and alcohol. FIL says even back in his day (50's/60's/70's), studio recordings had drugs widely available. Concerts were an opportunity to be unfaithful. Bandmates were egoists who were tempermental to deal with. And it is a cr@pshoot to get a hit song. Even more so nowadays. The industry will eat you up and spit you out for the next new artist that comes along. Edited January 30, 2012 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Sounds like fun! I always wanted to be in a band. When I played band with my older brothers, though, they always made me be Linda McCartney, and I only got to stand there and shake the tambourine. :( :lol: Seriously, though, I wouldn't press the issue at 13. He may change his mind in a couple of years. Or, he may not. I think I'd present him with all his options, but let him make up his own mind. Well, that's what I will hopefully do with my kids, because that is the complete opposite of what happened to me, and I really wish I could go back and do what made me happy, at least for a little while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennsmile Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Why not enroll him now in Music classes at the college. It may even be similar in cost to private lessons and he would start earning college credit. That is what my friend did with her kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I deleted my earlier post, now I sort of wish I hadn't. Oh, well. I will only say a few things (though I could go on for days) about this. The drugs/alcohol/sex thing is not necessarily a given. It is a stereotype. Considering that a university is rampant with these, but you aren't worried about him being there and its temptations is interesting. If this is something you a truly worried about, you need to make sure that in the next few years you teach him how to avoid these or be sensible about them....so that no matter where he goes or what he does he won't wind up in a bad place. There is no way to predict or ensure success enough to get to his goal. There is no checklist, application or template. Much is who you know, timing and dumb luck. I think in some ways it is a bit easier now to get your music out there, but then again the downside is that everything is out there! :D Plus, the reality of touring is difficult. It is not glamorous. It is a grind. He is 13. I wish him, luck. Do what you can to be supportive, but know that the realities are hard. I have several friends who have been signed to labels gotten to do more extensive touring than I did, and they all have day jobs. Some (the ones with more education) work at the University, are lawyers, graphic artists, etc. (the most famous one is a real estate agent) and the others who put all their eggs in the rock n roll basket are bartenders, servers or barristas. It is very satisfying and a wonderful thing to do, especially if you are driven to do it, but it is still mostly a part time gig for 97% of all musicians. My husband (also a musician with 15 albums) only knows 1 person who's only job is music. I know a few more than that, but they are classical musicians, and even they teach privately or at the conservatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I might add another point - many kids want to be "stars" because they see the "glamour" and wealth associated with it. As Radiobrain mentioned, it's not all that. I'm not assuming that that's what your son is after but often when kids want to join a band, it's the fame they're after. It would be good to spend the next few years really honing in on what ds is really good at, where his passions lie, his personality, and what he can do with it. And making sure he learns that "famous" is a really, really bad lifestyle/career choise ;). Starting out small and local can give a musician a good feel for what will work and what won't - both for ds personally and for the consumer. And remembering that musical careers (like acting careers) often ebb and flow, and you have to prepare for the down times. As with any career, it's sometimes not until you are in your 40's or 50's that it starts really taking shape because it often takes until then to discover what you really love and are good at. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I deleted my earlier post, now I sort of wish I hadn't. Oh, well. I will only say a few things (though I could go on for days) about this. The drugs/alcohol/sex thing is not necessarily a given. It is a stereotype. Considering that a university is rampant with these, but you aren't worried about him being there and its temptations is interesting. If this is something you a truly worried about, you need to make sure that in the next few years you teach him how to avoid these or be sensible about them....so that no matter where he goes or what he does he won't wind up in a bad place. There is no way to predict or ensure success enough to get to his goal. There is no checklist, application or template. Much is who you know, timing and dumb luck. I think in some ways it is a bit easier now to get your music out there, but then again the downside is that everything is out there! :D Plus, the reality of touring is difficult. It is not glamorous. It is a grind. He is 13. I wish him, luck. Do what you can to be supportive, but know that the realities are hard. I have several friends who have been signed to labels gotten to do more extensive touring than I did, and they all have day jobs. Some (the ones with more education) work at the University, are lawyers, graphic artists, etc. (the most famous one is a real estate agent) and the others who put all their eggs in the rock n roll basket are bartenders, servers or barristas. It is very satisfying and a wonderful thing to do, especially if you are driven to do it, but it is still mostly a part time gig for 97% of all musicians. My husband (also a musician with 15 albums) only knows 1 person who's only job is music. I know a few more than that, but they are classical musicians, and even they teach privately or at the conservatory. I'm glad you reposted. I hadn't thought that far. I should find out why he wants to tour with a band. He plays on the worship team in 2 capacities right now, and also on a music team at his hs/ps partnership, and in drama and musicals. I know music will always be a part of his life. I don't want to discourage him. I want to guide him more though. He's only 13, but I think I will talk to him more. He's my quirky guy, the one I don't "get" as much as the others since he is so unlike me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I might add another point - many kids want to be "stars" because they see the "glamour" and wealth associated with it. As Radiobrain mentioned, it's not all that. I'm not assuming that that's what your son is after but often when kids want to join a band, it's the fame they're after. It would be good to spend the next few years really honing in on what ds is really good at, where his passions lie, his personality, and what he can do with it. And making sure he learns that "famous" is a really, really bad lifestyle/career choise ;). Starting out small and local can give a musician a good feel for what will work and what won't - both for ds personally and for the consumer. And remembering that musical careers (like acting careers) often ebb and flow, and you have to prepare for the down times. As with any career, it's sometimes not until you are in your 40's or 50's that it starts really taking shape because it often takes until then to discover what you really love and are good at. :) Good points. I need to find out why he wants to do this. I also need to show him all the ways he can use music in his life. He probably only sees one way right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Why not enroll him now in Music classes at the college. It may even be similar in cost to private lessons and he would start earning college credit. That is what my friend did with her kids. I'm not sure our college would welcome that, plus he does take a lot of music, drama, creative classes at our hs/ps partnership. He's an incredible actor and can draw and paint, too. Like I said in my previous post, he's my quirky kid. We've been talking about high school right now. Does he want to continue on as we are? Does he want to go to the private school like his sister? He wants to keep on what we are doing so far. He loves his drama teacher and doesn't want to leave her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 If he is truly gifted and has the drive to succeed in this business he can but I would encourage a back up career for the dry times. He doesn't have to go to uni for that, but it sure would help. I think he would love college, too. I do think though he would be a late bloomer and not start until 20. Having a back up plan is a good idea, especially one in music. There are a lot of options. The kid loves history as well. He has a lot of passions so he has that going for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 FIL has always said what a racket the music teachers have with charging $100 a month for a 30 minute lesson -- once a week. If he knew how to read notes, he'd supplement his income as a retiree that way. ;) I agree. Having a studio in the home (or converting the garage) for work and lessons is a great gig -- his future wife may love the fact he is home instead of away on tour? Yeah, he told me he doesn't think he'll be a father because he knows kids need a dad around and he will be touring. :D My ds can read notes, has studied theory, etc. He's not great socially so that may be an issue. He doesn't really like little kids right now, but that may change later for teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 many large churches hire ministers of music. they not infrequently are looking for that person to have a degree from a university. it may also involve a need to be able to conduct singers and play the organ, even if the worship focus is primarily more modern. (most churches that can afford a minister of music also have an organ, and want it to be played at least for weddings and funerals). it might tie in his love of music and drama (and performance). several ministers of music i've known have organized full length musicals (think "joseph" etc) for the congregation to put on, and its been glorious. fwiw, ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 many large churches hire ministers of music. they not infrequently are looking for that person to have a degree from a university. it may also involve a need to be able to conduct singers and play the organ, even if the worship focus is primarily more modern. (most churches that can afford a minister of music also have an organ, and want it to be played at least for weddings and funerals). it might tie in his love of music and drama (and performance). several ministers of music i've known have organized full length musicals (think "joseph" etc) for the congregation to put on, and its been glorious. fwiw, ann Yes, this is true. There are so many options. I really want him to see how many choices he has. I'm feeling so much better now. I'm glad I posted my OP. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Thank you all so much for posting. I feel like I've learned a lot, and can talk to my son more clearly. I'm going to look at those book suggestions, too. This is really an area I have no experience in - this ds tends to put me in those areas a lot. LOL Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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