jenbrdsly Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My daughter is two and a half, and is really good at rattling off numbers up to twenty, but counting is definitely different from understanding quantities. I know she understands the quantities one and two, but she is really hit-and-miss with three. Yesterday, I really worked hard trying to teach her the quantity three (here's some pictures), but still no luck. Is this some sort of Piaget/developmental thing? Have you ever tried anything like this with your two year old? I'm really curious. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about counting, I'm talking about quantity identification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunriseiz Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hmm, my almost 3yo counts everything to determine quantity, so I'm not sure if I understand the question. If I give him several cheerios and ask him how many he has, he counts them and then tells me. Sorry, I am probably not helping... :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 DD is much the same age as your little one and she can do it, has done since a little before her second birthday. If they're in their familiar patterns (like on a die) she can do up to 6 automatically - she doesn't count the dots when we play board games now. I'm not sure if she can do more, haven't asked her to, but I just drew some random dots on cards to check this out for you and she can grab up to 5 without counting, after that (up to 10) she stopped to count. I know she can one to one count up to about 12 or so. *caveat - I'm not sure if this is "normal" though, her brother is PG and we don't know where she lies yet. He was freaky good with numbers and could do the dice thing by 12 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misidawnrn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My DD will be 3 in March and knows how to count things to 12. So, yes, I would say she knows the value of 3. She can say the numbers and count things to 12. She definately knows if she has 3 cookies! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ananda Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have a just turned two year old boy. He neither can count, nor knows the value of 3. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My DD will be 3 in March and knows how to count things to 12. So, yes, I would say she knows the value of 3. She can say the numbers and count things to 12. She definately knows if she has 3 cookies! :001_smile: I have a little girl turning 3 in March too! Mine knows 3 instantly, but she doesn't recognize larger numbers without counting the objects. Her accuracy at higher numbers varies depending on her interest in what she is counting. She can go higher than 10, but not without forgetting to count at least one object. I haven't taken time to check if she recognizes that a quantity remains the same in different positions. Recognizing that 5 marbles close together and 5 marbles spread out in a line are the same amount is definitely a Piaget stage thing. (If you've never read Piaget, Conception of the World is interesting although unscientific by today's standards and Conception of Number is very dense.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 At that age, both my advanced child and my delayed child would have to count to know the quantity of three. They wouldn't look at three dots and just know the value was three. If they knew without counting, it certainly wasn't on my radar to notice that early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My son will be three next month. He's been able to count out objects for some time, although he does sometimes make double-counting or skipping mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa in the UP of MI Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My ds just turned 2 yesterday. He has recognized 2 objects for at least 6 months and went through a phase where he was obsessed with finding two of various kinds of objects. His does not count or recognize 3+ objects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I should add that YMMV, but this is absolutely not something I would "work hard" trying to teach if my two-year-old didn't know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I should add that YMMV, but this is absolutely not something I would "work hard" trying to teach if my two-year-old didn't know it. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have no idea and I don't really care if he does.:lol: I believe he knows the value of 1 and 2. He can count also, but I do not work on school with him. Everything he learns is through play and life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Interesting responses! Thank you for your thoughts. If my daughter counted the chocolate chips in my hand, she could definitely get to three. She has one-to-one correspondence with counting, although I'm not sure how high. But just looking at the quantity three, she definitely can't do yet. The reason that I'm interested in this is that I read this book by the NPR Math guy, Keith Devlin called "The Language of Mathematics" and it had research in it that infants as young as a few days can recognize the quantity two. They have replicated this study all over the world by studying infant eye gaze. So that led me to thinking that it's no big deal if a toddler can recognize two, because even infants can do it. But what about three? The other part of this is like one of the earlier posters, my daughter's brother has been identified as gifted, and he was able to start a first grade math program (for fun) when he was four. I didn't teach him anything at all before that, but he did go to Montessori a few days a week. So now I'm also curious about when my son knew the quantity three, because I never bothered to monitor that. I'm not going push for my daughter to learn "three" until she is ready. But I think I might recreate yesterday's experiments a few months from now and see if there has been a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I should add that YMMV, but this is absolutely not something I would "work hard" trying to teach if my two-year-old didn't know it. :iagree: My two year old asks for three cookies when I give her two. I think she recognizes the quantity... but I've never tested that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Interesting responses! Thank you for your thoughts. If my daughter counted the chocolate chips in my hand, she could definitely get to three. She has one-to-one correspondence with counting, although I'm not sure how high. But just looking at the quantity three, she definitely can't do yet. The reason that I'm interested in this is that I read this book by the NPR Math guy, Keith Devlin called "The Language of Mathematics" and it had research in it that infants as young as a few days can recognize the quantity two. They have replicated this study all over the world by studying infant eye gaze. So that led me to thinking that it's no big deal if a toddler can recognize two, because even infants can do it. But what about three? The other part of this is like one of the earlier posters, my daughter's brother has been identified as gifted, and he was able to start a first grade math program (for fun) when he was four. I didn't teach him anything at all before that, but he did go to Montessori a few days a week. So now I'm also curious about when my son knew the quantity three, because I never bothered to monitor that. I'm not going push for my daughter to learn "three" until she is ready. But I think I might recreate yesterday's experiments a few months from now and see if there has been a change. I don't remember exactly when my ds got that concept, but I'm fairly certain it was not at age two. I know he first went through a stage where he understood 1 and 2, but anything larger was "much". "How many strawberries are there?" "Much." I had almost forgotten about that. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It *is* developmental. I had a neat experience as a 2yr old preschool teacher one evening. I sat with the kids on the floor with four blocks. We counted the blocks several times. Each time, they counted just fine. Then I asked how many blocks there were and each time, they said, "two!" They were so excited. Over and over, we recounted the blocks. Each time, they counted to four no problem. Then each time, I'd ask how many blocks there were and they'd say the same answer, "two!" LOL Anyway, yes, it is completely developmental. Equally as odd. My three kids do not recognize themselves as individual people. It is a very weird thing that happened, their bond is meshed to an unhealthy degree. It's weird. Anyway, so my 3yr old NEVER counts three or says three. When he counts, he skips 3 and 4 (he and his brother). He also doesn't recognize objects of those numbers. It always goes 1, 2, 5, 6. He does fine with the sequence in the 20s though. Anyway, developmentally, a typical preschooler (2-4yrs old) should be able to count with one-to-one correspondence and quantify to their age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I just want to say something. In researching preschools in the area (private), I have inquired as to what they "teach" their Pre K class children (four year olds). The general answer was "to count, to recognize numbers, to say their ABCs, recognize their alphabet, basic phonics, colors, and shapes". In seeing my homeschool friends I am left in wonder because most of us have 2 year olds already showing proficiency with these skills; and then I wonder where in the world my son will fit into these programs. Just something I noticed. :001_smile: OP, my 2 year old son can count and recognize numbers to about 12; he can count objects, but does not yet know immediately that there are, say, three cheerios in his bowl, without counting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My two year old can count to three and beyond, but he definitely does not have a grasp on number concepts and very little of quantifying. He's very much still in the "1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 10!" stage. :) He's also very proud of himself that he recognizes that a written number is a number, but does not yet know which one is which. I use the A Beka pre-K math program for my 3 year olds, and it focuses completely on working on the number concept for numbers 1-20. All of my three year olds have enjoyed this immensely and were able to grasp the idea of numbers by this age and not just counting. They also love it because it makes them feel like they are doing "real" school like their older siblings. :D I've never tried it with my two year olds, but mostly because they haven't had the attention span to sit long enough for a lesson. Plus, to me, three is young enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My 2-year-old does not yet recognize the quantity 3, but he does know 2 and counts from 1-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Okay Jen, I tested the recently-turned 2 year old b/c I was just curious. It took about 30 seconds from start to finish and we were already playing with the cars anyway. She got it. But did I do it right? On the rug: groups of toy cars (1, 2, and 3). I asked her to count each group. Then I randomly pointed to each group and she told me how many were in each group without recounting. I did it several times and she got "dew" (2) and "wee" (3) right each time. But maybe she was just remembering that that group was 3? After all, she had counted them already. She didn't ever get "one" right. (What's up with that?) Maybe I'll try it again another day. Perhaps I need a coaching first, though. Anybody have any tips? :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I know this is probably the former Psych major in me talking, but I find this whole subject really fascinating. It has prompted me to dig around in my Right Start materials, and think about this some more. If you really want to "nerd out", I've got another simple experiment for you, this one from the research of K. Wynn. I have pictures here on my blog. I guess you would call it "The Teddy Bear Experiment". But you could rightly call it: “What happens when a SAHM gets bored during four days of being snow-bound.” J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Dd knew at that age. I would ask if she wanted 1, 2 or 3 M&Ms. She learned pretty quickly how many she got when she said 3. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Well, my almost 4 year old can't/won't count to 10....I don't know which. She likes to pretend she does not know things so I never know what she does know.....kwim? At two she did not know the quantity 3. She did not appear to know any quantities.....but again, I don't really know! She is not a performing monkey ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 DS was 27m yesterday. He can count objects in a one-to-one correspondence up through ten (this was the first time I've asked him to do it, I usually just marvel and wonder at how he learned that). When I put three objects in my hand, he had to count them to tell me how many there were, he didn't just "know." His older brother wasn't even speaking yet by this point, so I don't know what he knew. I think it was right around the time he turned two that YDS started randomly counting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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