BigMamaBird Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Hi all, Â We had a dog bite incident yesterday. I thought I handled it properly at the time, but now that I've had time to think on it, I wonder if I did. Â We have a 10 year old, 30 lb. beagle who is getting old. Not grouchy or crotchety. But achy, sleepy, set in his ways. I also have a very rough and tumble 3 year old boy who is completely in love with the dog. And usually the dog is very tolerant of the boy's affections and the love can get rough. We always remind the boy to use gentle hands and intervene when the dog seems to be getting annoyed. Â But yesterday, during school, ds was loving on the dog while he was in his bed and I wasn't there to tell him to back him off. I heard the dog give a warning grumble, which usually makes the boy stop. But I guess he didn't, because I heard a bark and the boy crying hysterically. He'd been bitten once on the forearm. By the time I got in the room the dog had his tail between his legs and was slinking off, he obviously knew he'd crossed a line. I checked the boy and there were no wounds, he was just really upset. Â I cuddled him till he calmed down and basically (but kindly) told him that he got what he deserved and that he knows to be gentle to the dog. He agreed, apologized to the dog :D and I settled the dog down to let him know he wasn't in trouble. Â But now I wonder if I shouldn't have "taken the boy's side." Should I have scolded the dog? He never bites, I think it was just a protective reaction. But if I let him get away with it once, maybe he'll do it again. At the same time, I also want to teach ds that when dogs say no, they mean it and to leave them alone. Â WWYD? Am I overthinking this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I have a dog, too. If she *ever* bit one of the kids, self-defense, achiness, or whatever, she'd be gone that day. We just do not have the type of life situation where I would be able to be in the same room with the dog all the time. I *have* to be able to trust that my dog and my kid can be together without the child getting bitten. I cannot keep an animal that bites (whether it's a dog or some other animal -- we have livestock and have had to get rid of roosters that have attacked the children). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I think what your dog did was normal. I would have given the dog a harsh toned "bad dog" but really he wasn't instigating the aggression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Are you sure he was actually bitten? Our old dog got like that and she never fully bit, sure her mouth went around the hand/arm whatever, but as soon as she felt the child she would back off. It was more like if we firmly grabbed the child's hand. I never scolded my dog for it. I think you did the right thing. What are an animals options if say a child is laying on it and squeezing on it until it hurts. The child need to learn to not do things that hurt the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Any dog that bit my children would be out. Period. I don't care what the reason for the bite was--it's now apparent that the dog and the child aren't able to co-exist peacefully, so the dog would go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Are you sure he was actually bitten? Our old dog got like that and she never fully bit, sure her mouth went around the hand/arm whatever, but as soon as she felt the child she would back off. It was more like if we firmly grabbed the child's hand. I never scolded my dog for it. I think you did the right thing. What are an animals options if say a child is laying on it and squeezing on it until it hurts. The child need to learn to not do things that hurt the dog. Â Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure he was bitten. There were four little red marks which disappeared within minutes. But he was so freaked out, I can't imagine that reaction for anything other than honest, startled, pain. Â He's been very gentle today though ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aura Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I checked the boy and there were no wounds, he was just really upset. Â If there were no wounds, are you sure that the dog actually bit him, as opposed to just barking/snapping to warn him he'd crossed a line? Â I would have given the dog a harsh toned "bad dog" but really he wasn't instigating the aggression. Â :iagree:I would make sure the dog understands where his place is in the family pack, and make sure the toddler understands how to treat the dog, but I've yelled and reacted strongly when I've been bitten while nursing and ended up scaring the baby. :sad: If I can't even sit still without reacting when I've been hurt, how can I expect an animal to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aura Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Sorry, I think we posted at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I'm kind of torn...I agree that a dog should not be biting, period.....on the other hand.....if they are being treated roughly (which I assume your son was doing but only out of love and age), one should expect the dog to show displeasure and defend themselves...and he did give a warning growl prior. Â We've always taught our children the same thing with our pets....to understand when the dog or cat growl, hiss, scratch, etc....you are doing something that is painful to them....and if you don't heed the warning, well, you get what you deserve, as much as that may hurt. We've never had a dog go as far as bite though, so it's hard for me to say. Â I think the age of your dog has alot to do with it. He's a grumpy old man. We all know that elderly folks can get grumpy...as do elderly animals. Â I would consider keeping them apart unless you are right there to make sure your son is gentle at all times. If I want to keep the dog, I would be giving alot of extra talking and training to the child about how the dog is old, we have to be gentle...repeat, repeat, repeat...the child will catch on quicker than the grumpy old dog. 3 turns into 4 soon enough and they understand these things..and you know, as sad as it is, the bite may have taught him quicker then you ever could. Edited December 15, 2011 by Samiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 What happened is your fault. If the dog is like that then you should take care to protect the dog and the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I agree with the pp who said that your dog has to know where he is in the pack. It has to be very clear that it is NEVER acceptable for him to bite an alpha (and he must see your child as an alpha). Â Of course, the child must also be respectful and gentle with the dog... Â the problem is that you might never know *what* a cranky, old dog could interpret as the child crossing the line. What if the child was just petting the dog and the dog was tired and feeling like he was protecting his bed/territory? What if the child leans to far forward while petting and falls on the dog? What if he steps on the dog's tail? Â I think, if you can't trust the dog, you've GOT to keep them apart unless they are directly supervised. (Because you can't really ever trust a toddler/preschooler not to get excited or a little rough at times... little kids use little kid judgment...) Â The biggest priority is your child's safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think what your dog did was normal. I would have given the dog a harsh toned "bad dog" but really he wasn't instigating the aggression. Â :iagree: Â What are an animals options if say a child is laying on it and squeezing on it until it hurts. The child needs to learn to not do things that hurt the dog. Â :iagree: -- it's not like the dog can say, "Please stop -- you're hurting me." ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 He wasn't really hurt, you now know to always be within arms reach of boy and dog, and maybe boy learned a lesson. Â If he were really bitten, I'd agree with dog leaving, but that doen't seem to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Anyone that would blame the dog in that situation shouldn't have dogs in the first place. I'm stunned to see that though I guess I know there are people that do. Â I would briefly verbally scold the dog but just to maintain order-your dog knew it was wrong and was sorry. I would have dealt with the child the same way you did. Â Absolutely not is a kid allowed to treat a dog like a piece of playground equipment and the dog can't defend himself. I always have told our kids that the dog is allowed to bite if s/he needs to defend her/himself. Go figure, my kids are excellent and sensible with animals, all animals. Â If you raise your kids any other way you're doing them a disservice. Â Of course with a kid that age an adult needs to run interference but no way is it the dog's fault in this situation. Nope nope nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I have a dog, too. If she *ever* bit one of the kids, self-defense, achiness, or whatever, she'd be gone that day. We just do not have the type of life situation where I would be able to be in the same room with the dog all the time. I *have* to be able to trust that my dog and my kid can be together without the child getting bitten. I cannot keep an animal that bites (whether it's a dog or some other animal -- we have livestock and have had to get rid of roosters that have attacked the children). Â :iagree: Even right down to the roosters my now 9yo was attacked by one as a baby and still has a scar over his eye. We've already agreed that if the dogs we have (9.5 yo labs) bite anyone, they would be put down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I probably would have done the same... We have a non-aggressive, friendly cat and dog (and chickens), but if the kids were to play rough with them and get a scratch or bite, well... it's a lesson for them. It's like touching a hot stove... it's not the fault of the stove if a child touches it. It's the child's fault and (depending on the age of the child) my fault for not supervising better. Telling the dog off and sending her away to another room is probably reasonable too. Getting rid of the dog entirely seems overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 :iagree:Â Â Â :iagree: -- it's not like the dog can say, "Please stop -- you're hurting me." ;) Â A dog can run. A dog can "take it." A dog should never try to bite its master or a more senior member of its pack. I believe, in dog social hierarchy, this is a *huge* no-no... and lower-level dogs would be killed (by the alpha), severly mauled, or chased from the pack for this transgression. Someone who knows more about dog social hierarchy, please correct me if I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's not like the dog was attacking the child! The child was attacking the dog. And according to some of you, then the dog gets destroyed b/c of the actions of the child. Â wow. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I have a dog, too. If she *ever* bit one of the kids, self-defense, achiness, or whatever, she'd be gone that day. We just do not have the type of life situation where I would be able to be in the same room with the dog all the time. I *have* to be able to trust that my dog and my kid can be together without the child getting bitten. I cannot keep an animal that bites (whether it's a dog or some other animal -- we have livestock and have had to get rid of roosters that have attacked the children).  I respectfully disagree -- roosters and dogs can NOT be compared...not even close to the same type of animal.  Anyone that would blame the dog in that situation shouldn't have dogs in the first place. I'm stunned to see that though I guess I know there are people that do. I would briefly verbally scold the dog but just to maintain order-your dog knew it was wrong and was sorry. I would have dealt with the child the same way you did.  Absolutely not is a kid allowed to treat a dog like a piece of playground equipment and the dog can't defend himself. I always have told our kids that the dog is allowed to bite if s/he needs to defend her/himself. Go figure, my kids are excellent and sensible with animals, all animals.  If you raise your kids any other way you're doing them a disservice.  Of course with a kid that age an adult needs to run interference but no way is it the dog's fault in this situation. Nope nope nope.  Thank you...well said. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I agree that you did the right thing. While I know that your dog shouldn't have bitten him (because he's *just* a dog and all), I do think that given his state of comfort and mind, he was just saying what he needed to say in the only way he knew to say it. I have been ill (headache, flu, whatever) and wanted to silence the nearest loud, boisterous individual - I would have to say it's probably a similar case with the dog; while I would use my angry voice, the dog used his own understood method to convey the same message. Â Sorry for your ds, though. I think it's sweet that he understands and apologized. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 A dog can run. A dog can "take it." A dog should never try to bite its master or a more senior member of its pack. I believe, in dog social hierarchy, this is a *huge* no-no... and lower-level dogs would be killed (by the alpha), severly mauled, or chased from the pack for this transgression. Someone who knows more about dog social hierarchy, please correct me if I am wrong. Â A dog (or any animal) shouldn't have to "take it"...you have a lot to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myeightkiddies Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 :lurk5: This is going to be a long thread. Â Educate the child. Educate the dog (standing over him and gruffly put him in his place) immediately after it happens (too late now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 A dog can run. A dog can "take it." A dog should never try to bite its master or a more senior member of its pack. I believe, in dog social hierarchy, this is a *huge* no-no... and lower-level dogs would be killed (by the alpha), severly mauled, or chased from the pack for this transgression. Someone who knows more about dog social hierarchy, please correct me if I am wrong. Â Â Um, but we're not dogs here. We're humans...and if we want to be nitty-gritty, we took the dog from his natural pack environment, so it's not as if we can hold him to the "pack standard". We're expecting a family pet to act a bit more civilized, as should we act a bit more civilized than a pack of dogs. Â Don't really get the point of that at all. Â BTW, I am on the dog's side, as I feel he should have a right to let it be known to "stop hurting me". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's not like the dog was attacking the child! Â I believe the OP said that the child was "loving on" the dog. The child is the one who was bitten. In my book that is an attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Um, but we're not dogs here. We're humans...and if we want to be nitty-gritty, we took the dog from his natural pack environment, so it's not as if we can hold him to the "pack standard". We're expecting a family pet to act a bit more civilized, as should we act a bit more civilized than a pack of dogs. Don't really get the point of that at all.  BTW, I am on the dog's side, as I feel he should have a right to let it be known to "stop hurting me". But dogs think like dogs, not people. Dogs *will* assume a natural dog social hierarchy. They will react like dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Actually in some circles of dog behavior experts the whole "pack" mentality is a myth and doesn't exist at all. No hierarchy, no leader of the pack. Â Asking any animal to sit and be injured is just plain nuts. Dogs (wolves and coyotes too if you want to play that game) will rough house and wrestle and fight but rarely do they actually injure another, and if they do the injured party will fight back to protect itself. The dog/canine tries to express himself as best he can, slinking off, a growl, a lifted lip-and the kid ignores all the signs b/c he doesn't know, then the dog gets hurt. And he nipped him on the ARM, it's not like he went for the throat. Â It's the exact same as a child hitting an adult, or biting when nursing, or pulling hair, the adult is supposed to just sit and take it no matter what? no, they don't-they have social cues they can use to stop the child. what is that dog supposed to do when nobody is there to help him? Â OP I'm so glad you handled it the way you did! You did great and you have a good dog there. And a child who now knows a lot better than he did this morning-he's learned a lesson that some kids will never learn and it will make him a more understanding person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 But yesterday, during school, ds was loving on the dog while he was in his bed and I wasn't there to tell him to back him off. I heard the dog give a warning grumble, which usually makes the boy stop. But I guess he didn't, because I heard a bark and the boy crying hysterically. He'd been bitten once on the forearm. By the time I got in the room the dog had his tail between his legs and was slinking off, he obviously knew he'd crossed a line. I checked the boy and there were no wounds, he was just really upset. Â Â Â The OP doesn't *really* know what happened because she wasn't in the room... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 On that note, anyone who believes a three year old is old enough to apply reason and impulse control well enough to be alone with a crotchety old dog, shouldn't have children. The child, while wrong, is exploring his surroundings and isn't capable of applying impulse control at that age. A dog bite can kill. My child's misbehaviour isn't worth a casket. Anyone that would blame the dog in that situation shouldn't have dogs in the first place. I'm stunned to see that though I guess I know there are people that do. I would briefly verbally scold the dog but just to maintain order-your dog knew it was wrong and was sorry. I would have dealt with the child the same way you did.  Absolutely not is a kid allowed to treat a dog like a piece of playground equipment and the dog can't defend himself. I always have told our kids that the dog is allowed to bite if s/he needs to defend her/himself. Go figure, my kids are excellent and sensible with animals, all animals.  If you raise your kids any other way you're doing them a disservice.  Of course with a kid that age an adult needs to run interference but no way is it the dog's fault in this situation. Nope nope nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I believe the OP said that the child was "loving on" the dog. The child is the one who was bitten. In my book that is an attack. Â No, you're wrong. A small child's version of loving on is completely different than loving on to an elderly dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 A dog (or any animal) shouldn't have to "take it"...you have a lot to learn. Â I have a lot to learn? Â Well... :D I have a LOT of animals. My children know how to treat them with respect. Â My children have never been bitten by my dog. My children are safe. My dog is happy. I trust her with my kids (and they are gentle with her). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 On that note, anyone who believes a three year old is old enough to apply reason and impulse control well enough to be alone with a crotchety old dog, shouldn't have children.The child, while wrong, is exploring his surroundings and isn't capable of applying impulse control at that age. A dog bite can kill. My child's misbehaviour isn't worth a casket. Â With that reasoning you should not have dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 No, you're wrong. A small child's version of loving on is completely different than loving on to an elderly dog. Â I guess the point is that no one was there to see it and the OP described it as "loving on" so I was assuming the child was not beating the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I have a lot to learn? Well... :D I have a LOT of animals. My children know how to treat them with respect.  My children have never been bitten by my dog. My children are safe. My dog is happy. I trust her with my kids (and they are gentle with her).  And THAT is the difference between your children and the OP's child... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 How so? We aren't an eye for an eye family. Especially not when my German Shepherd has sharper teeth and a stronger jaw than my 2 year old has potential harm in his hands. Â With that reasoning you should not have dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 My old dog has bad hips-if me or anyone else leaned on her hips she would bite from the pain and I wouldn't blame her a bit, I don't think she could even stop herself from the pain reaction. When the puppy falls on her hips she growls and bites b/c she can't get up fast enough to get out of the way. I would never ever ever leave a small child with a tendency to want to "love on her" anywhere near her unattended. That would be MY BAD if anyone got hurt and punishing the dog would be the most horrible case of injustice I can imagine. Sometimes kids get hurt and just b/c there is an animal involved doesn't mean that the animal carries the blame-this would be one of those cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 We have a dog and two young boys, and our dog has growled at the boys a handful of times when he's not in the mood to play or be hugged. Younger in particular thinks "hugging" the dog is affectionate, whereas many dogs (including ours) do NOT like to be squeezed tightly. I have told my son that this is inappropriate behavior on his part, and the dog is warning him when he growls. I would be very upset if our dog ended up nipping my child, but IF it was due to my child doing the very thing I told him NOT to do, then....... Â That said, if it was a severe bite, there would be no question. He would have to go. Â Children need to learn what is appropriate behavior around animals, be they dogs, horses, or what have you. I was kicked when I was younger by a horse that I walked behind, despite being told repeatedly NOT to walk behind this horse. Was this the horse's fault? Nope. It was mine. Â If your child is too young to control himself (3 seems pretty young in this case) I would not have him and the dog in the room together alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think a warning bite (which your son got) is different than a bite. Dogs know when they are biting and when they are not. I think you handled it correctly. I would certainly make sure that I was in the same room if the dog and 3 year old were in the same room from now on (or until 3 year old is older and predictable from the dog's point of view.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think you had the right response to your child. Comforting him, but also telling him that that's what happens when you mess with the dog. Â BUT, I also think you should have scolded the dog. Unfortunately I'm afraid the dog got the message (apology from boy, soothing words or something from you) that he was a good dog and you completely understand the biting, and that you will not be upset if it happens again. Yes, maybe your son was bothering him. But even if your son was really hurting him, he should never be allowed to bite him. He can get up and move, or yelp loudly and you'll come running to rescue him. Dog is (or should be) at the bottom of the pack in the family. Â I corrected my dogs if they ever even growled at the kids. Because that is a threat, just a precursor to a bite. Again, if they don't like what's going on they can move (usually). I wanted them to know long before they thought about biting that they were not allowed to even THINK about it (with that growl). Â I would have grabbed the dog's muzzle firmly and given it a shake, gotten close and stared him in the eye, while saying "NO bite. NO". And then maybe put him outside for a bit. This is assuming you were there within a minute or so of the bite. Â Sorry this happened. Very scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeetime Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 :iagree: Even right down to the roosters my now 9yo was attacked by one as a baby and still has a scar over his eye. We've already agreed that if the dogs we have (9.5 yo labs) bite anyone, they would be put down. Â A dog can run. A dog can "take it." A dog should never try to bite its master or a more senior member of its pack. I believe, in dog social hierarchy, this is a *huge* no-no... and lower-level dogs would be killed (by the alpha), severly mauled, or chased from the pack for this transgression. Someone who knows more about dog social hierarchy, please correct me if I am wrong. Â The child wasn't attacked. There's a huge difference between an attack and what happened here. The OP stated that the dog was old and sore. Old dogs have arthritis, sore hips and various other conditions that cause pain when handled too roughly. Haven't you ever jumped and yelled when unexpectedly hurt? That's all the dog did. I'm sure that if the dog wanted to bite or hurt the child he could have- he didn't. He was hurt. Any dog who is being hurt will nip and yelp. AND he gave a warning first- "please leave me alone, you're hurting me"- and that warning was ignored. Sorry, I'm on the poor pup's side. OP, I think you handled it appropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hi all, OP here. Â Thank you for all of your input and advice. I can see why I have been second guessing this all day, opinions are pretty diverse. Â Don't want to be the thought police, but maybe we should just let this thread die. I don't want to be starting anything. Â Again, thank you all. I love having such a passionate group to bounce ideas off of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 How so?We aren't an eye for an eye family. Especially not when my German Shepherd has sharper teeth and a stronger jaw than my 2 year old has potential harm in his hands. Â It's a dog-the OP's dog could have broken the skin, gone for the face, held on, continued the attack. It was self defense, or sounds to be. It's not like the dog turned Cujo and had the kid cornered and was chewing on him. Â Please don't think that when your strong-jawed sharp-toothed GSD is minding his own business taking a nap and your 2 year old lands in the middle of his abdomen that he has anything but a pain response. He can't help it, your child was out of line, knowingly or not. If you would really kill or banish your dog b/c of that then no you should not have a dog b/c you are treating them like a machine, not a living creature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Posting at the same time-I'm out on this one. Going to go hug my dogs. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 We had a 95lb Alaskan Malamute that bit a child (on the cheek!) when the 3yo came into our home uninivited and entered our dog's enclosed area and jumped on him while he was sleeping. When I arrived, the dog was cowering in the corner with his tail between his legs looking guilty as all get out. The boy was bleeding. :ohmy: Â I called every vet in town to put that dog down. Not one single vet would do it when they heard the story. I was counseled over and over about how normal the dog was. Â He lived 8 more years with our 7 children and never even snipped at them. But we taught our kids to respect his space, especially when he got old and his ol' bones started to ache. Â I'm so glad I didn't hand out the death penalty rashly. Â Btw- the boy needed a stitch and the parents were understanding. Allowing their son to roam unattended was a lesson for them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 What happened is your fault. If the dog is like that then you should take care to protect the dog and the child. :iagree: Â Buy a crate if you can't keep them separated. I wouldn't hesitate to crate a dog to keep it apart from a child that age. The dog was telling the child to stop hurting it and it might well have been hurting it without realizing it. Â From an animal control perspective, it's not a bite if the skin is not broken. Â I watched my kids like a hawk when they were small and I used the crate for the dog if necessary or put the dog outside if I could not be right there to watch the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Here's a site with a list of warning signs that come before the bite. You might want to teach those to your ds: http://www.beijing-kids.com/blog/dibeijing/2011/05/15/The-Curse-of-The-Good-Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Are you seriously suggesting that if my GSD for any reason bit my 2 year old (and any bite from this dog would seriously injure), I should tell off the 2 year old and console the dog? Â Regardless, again, my 2 year old isn't left alone with the dog. Â I'm not going to say what I think in response to your "shouldn't have a dog" response (the same response you've given over and over) because it isn't appropriate in the forum. It's a dog-the OP's dog could have broken the skin, gone for the face, held on, continued the attack. It was self defense, or sounds to be. It's not like the dog turned Cujo and had the kid cornered and was chewing on him. Â Please don't think that when your strong-jawed sharp-toothed GSD is minding his own business taking a nap and your 2 year old lands in the middle of his abdomen that he has anything but a pain response. He can't help it, your child was out of line, knowingly or not. If you would really kill or banish your dog b/c of that then no you should not have a dog b/c you are treating them like a machine, not a living creature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hi all, OP here. Thank you for all of your input and advice. I can see why I have been second guessing this all day, opinions are pretty diverse.  Don't want to be the thought police, but maybe we should just let this thread die. I don't want to be starting anything.  Again, thank you all. I love having such a passionate group to bounce ideas off of.  Sorry! I didn't read this before I posted. All done here. :lol::D:leaving: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 And THAT is the difference between your children and the OP's child... ;) Â I don't know that there is a difference. By the OP's description, the child was "loving on" the dog. I will not assume her child was hurting the dog. Now, if she *said* her child was hurting the dog, I would believe her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 :iagree:Â Buy a crate if you can't keep them separated. I wouldn't hesitate to crate a dog to keep it apart from a child that age. The dog was telling the child to stop hurting it and it might well have been hurting it without realizing it. Â From an animal control perspective, it's not a bite if the skin is not broken. Â I watched my kids like a hawk when they were small and I used the crate for the dog if necessary or put the dog outside if I could not be right there to watch the child. Â Here is good, sane advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (1) You will never teach that dog that your 3 year old out ranks him. The dog isn't going to fall for that one. Â (2) You need to teach the dog that YOU outrank him and that the child belongs to you and that he's not allowed to touch the child. Â (3) You need the keep this dog entirely separate from this child. Â (4) The dog isn't really to blame, the child isn't really to blame. You are to blame. The dog is living with a 3 year old. Three year old children have poor impulse control. If you are going to leave the dog to "deal with it" then he will, but he will deal with it like a dog. He gives warning growls. He shouldn't even have to do that. Then when ignored, he gave a harmless nip. If you don't like that, keep the child totally away from him. I'm not saying you shouldn't care, either. I would care a lot and would take that nip seriously because the next time he might go harder. Â (5) This incident worked for the dog. He nipped, the child backed off. My dog has nipped too, so I am speaking as someone who has felt that horrible feeling, and I bet you have a few grey hairs from it. I'm sorry. It makes one feel literally sick. What I have learned is pretty much outlined above. If I were you, I would never ever again let this child alone with this dog. Ever again. The dog won't mind at all. But if you can't do that, get rid of the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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