What if they don't care?

[mommymilkies]

I'm way past done with trying to get my children to do anything. I feel like my days can not possibly go worse, and I get nothing accomplished every.single.day. I am beyond done.

 

I make charts, lists, visual aids, I walk them through it, I show them how to do it, I write it on the whiteboard, etc. And this goes for anything. Cleaning their rooms, doing math, finding their pencils (!!!!!), sitting down to read, putting on clean clothes. I don't know if there's a single trick I haven't tried. I try to stay consistent. I've done everything from radical unschooling (which made it waaaaaaaay worse and screwed us up for years), to singing through the house Waldorf style, to visual reminders on everything we own, file folders, binders, workboxes, to using threats, rewards, punishments, "I" sentences, and even a money system. Nothing. Not even threatening no Wii, TV, Ds, or dessert. Nothing. They could care less so long as they don't have to do anything I need them to do. And we're not talking outrageous demands. I consider myself very laid back.

 

I think I'm just having a bad month. And a really bad day. Besides implanting robot parts into their brains, is there anything at all that works? I don't use physical punishment. That's non-negotiable. I would take a homeschool break but this defiance goes to all aspects of our day and we're behind because I get NOTHING done. The baby has been teething and screaming non-stop for months, my 3 yo is on a mission to give me an aneurysm, and my 7 yo has emotional breakdowns 8 bazillion times a day. :banghead:

[kathy_overman]

Are you sure you are not talking about my life? I don't have advice, just know you are not alone.

 

I do wonder if HS'ing goes through cycle. 3 weeks ago I was singing the praises of our HS choice, but the last 2 weeks have been SO MISERABLE!

 

The only thing I find that works, is to be super strict. My DS even said today, after a screaming, throwing, crying fit that he likes when I get really strict with him. Why must we go through this day after day.

 

My Mom tells I talk to much, so today, I took my iPod to school. Told them what needed to be done and cranked up my music. It did help that they did not get as much attention for their negotiating tacts, and I certainly enjoyed listening to the music instead of the screams.

 

Heck, I have investiaged every possible school choice - I am just not sure I can keep up this battle.

 

Hugs to you!! It can be so not fun.

[Mimm]

This has been the last month for me. Our year got off to a great start then things spiraled down very quickly. I don't have any answers either. I just came up with a new checklist style thing and once again had an awful day in school where my younger daughter spent most of it in her room recovering from various snit fits.

[livingnlearning]

As long as they are still playing with toys, watching tv, playing games, eating yummy things for dinner and enjoying their lives you have not yet begun to fight.

 

You are cheerful and yet, you pull privileges and perqs when their obligations aren't done. Put a smile on your face and put the dots close together for them. Do this right now or "else" right now.

 

Is your DH behind you 100%? are YOU behind you 100%? If not, you need to find your footing.

 

overpeople-my kids did the same thing a few times, when the Law came crashing down and I pulled their fun stuff and we really got down to business they were happier.

 

Don't do lists, checklists, stickers, ect. Bring that in when they can work for themselves a bit. Right now just practise telling them what to do and them listening. It takes a lot of energy-don't get paper and systems involved. Don't let yourself get mad. Not done with your room by 5? dang, sorry for you but you're in here for the rest of the night, no tv, no toys, brussel sprouts (or any least liked meal) for dinner. Sucks to be you, kiddo. Hope tomorrow is better!

 

signed,

Mean Mom of Responsible Hard Working Kids

[Parrothead]

Your kids are so young yet to be doing a lot of things without direct supervision.

 

You probably have another year if not two or three before your eldest will look at a chore chart and do chores all on his own.

 

Now if they are just not doing X when you say it is time to do X you have a different problem.

 

Otherwise, stand by the 'fridge with the chore chard, and assign chores one at a time. Continue to check them off as they are done.

 

Eventually it will become routine.

[6packofun]

Maybe move from punishment (I know that not all you are doing could be classified as such!) to more of a reward type of system. Not a system that you lay all out on a poster and tell them about, but that you subtly introduce as kids cooperate and accomplish your MOST important priorities. Kwim?

 

So choose something they are NOT doing consistently (maybe not something they are outright *never* doing, lol) and when it's done by one of the kids either give a small reward--not necessarily a toy or anything major--or put a marble or penny in a jar with the mysterious promise of something good to come once they reach a certain point. (Ice cream sundaes, board game day! Whatever!)

 

Now, we constantly hear opposing views on the whole fun thing. School isn't always going to be fun and they need to deal with it! School without fun kills the love of learning! Well, your answer is somewhere in the middle, IMO. So I think that introducing a few *simple*, fun learning things each week would help you ALL to get over the hump. Nothing that stresses you out, not something for every single subject by any means. It needs to be something that you can DO. This is just my first impression and opinion. Oh, and stop trying too many new things. LOL (Of course, I just gave you ideas for a couple more, but maybe stick with them longer? I dunno. This homeschooling life is tough, but it will get better I know it.)

Edited November 16, 2011 by 6packofun
..,

[redsquirrel]

Let me get this straight. I thought you were talking about a house full of teenagers, but I see in your sig line that your eldest is 10 and you have a baby and a three year old and a 7 year old. You are in a house of babies. I am not surprised that checklists and whiteboards don't work.

 

I also see a very full school schedule and lots and lots of activities.

 

Maybe you need to simplify?

 

What you are describing sounds pretty normal to me. I only have two to teach but I spend most of my time telling them to find a pencil. It is just the way it is. It is also hard. So maybe you need to figure out a bare minimum of school to be done by the older kids (the 10 and 7 year old) and something to keep the three year occupied and just hold the teething baby. That sounds like enough for any one woman to handle in the day.

 

edited to add that I see you also have a 9 year old in there. So 10, 9, 7, 3 and baby. They are not ready to be given a chart or a list or much of anything that doesn't involve lots of patience and hand holding at that age.

Edited November 16, 2011 by redsquirrel

[mommymilkies]

Actually my oldest (almost 11) is the only one whose ears work. I could leave for a week and I'd come back to a clean home, clean happy children, and warm dinner with her in charge. :lol:

 

I do *every* subject with them directly. But some things I have been trying to get them to do independently-like handwriting. Am I crazy for thinking a 9 year old (almost 10) can actually write the letter J without sneaking off to read Calvin & Hobbes? :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't actually usually do punishments unless I am truly beyond my limit (I have ptsd from reading Unconditional Parenting :lol: ). I right now have a reward system in place that only my oldest ever qualifies for. They get certain "Mom Dollars" for doing things. They do lose "Mom Dollars" for things like not doing piano practice because I figure if I pay an exorbitant amount of money every month, they can at least practice!

 

I know my list looks exhaustive and overwhelming, but it *shouldn't be* because I don't do it all consistently or often, by any means. The sports are seasonal and there is only aikido or gymnastics (depending on kid) right now-once a week for an hour. Even just doing math, phonics/spelling, and grammar daily has been impossible lately. I do try to keep it fun. We do Circle Time, which they love, we have Co-op every other week which ruins our schedule, but they wouldn't miss for the world, I have followed their every demand for schoolwork-one on one (or one on two) work in every subject of the materials they want & chose with me, including down to me doing 2 time periods for history and 4 languages.

 

I agree I need to simplify. But every time I try, they balk at the loss of subjects, I feel like a failure reading on here that someone else's 6 year old is doing differential equations (j/k), and it just doesn't help anyway. I do soooooooo much hand holding, but I can only hold so many hands at a time. More than anything, we are still trying to recover from being in a good mindset and routine to unschooling radically and the turmoil that produced. It may work for some people, but it truly destroyed our dynamic. :(

 

The only thing that keeps my 3 yo happy is Mr. Rogers. And as wonderful as he is, I feel bad making her a zombie all day! :lol:

[Meriwether]

I'm way past done with trying to get my children to do anything. I feel like my days can not possibly go worse, and I get nothing accomplished every.single.day. I am beyond done.

 

I make charts, lists, visual aids, I walk them through it, I show them how to do it, I write it on the whiteboard, etc. And this goes for anything. Cleaning their rooms, doing math, finding their pencils (!!!!!), sitting down to read, putting on clean clothes. I don't know if there's a single trick I haven't tried. I try to stay consistent. I've done everything from radical unschooling (which made it waaaaaaaay worse and screwed us up for years), to singing through the house Waldorf style, to visual reminders on everything we own, file folders, binders, workboxes, to using threats, rewards, punishments, "I" sentences, and even a money system. Nothing. Not even threatening no Wii, TV, Ds, or dessert. Nothing. They could care less so long as they don't have to do anything I need them to do. And we're not talking outrageous demands. I consider myself very laid back.

 

I think I'm just having a bad month. And a really bad day. Besides implanting robot parts into their brains, is there anything at all that works? I don't use physical punishment. That's non-negotiable. I would take a homeschool break but this defiance goes to all aspects of our day and we're behind because I get NOTHING done. The baby has been teething and screaming non-stop for months, my 3 yo is on a mission to give me an aneurysm, and my 7 yo has emotional breakdowns 8 bazillion times a day. :banghead:

 

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry you feel overwhelmed.

 

Different people expect things from their kids at different ages. I come from a culture that encourages involvement and responsibility from younger children. Under 7 is labor intensive for the parent, kids aged 7-14 should be able to pull their own weight, and kids older than 14 should do more than pull their weight. I am lax with my kids but my 8 year old can and will help cook and clean. She can and will look at her schedule and work through her schoolwork without my direction. She will come find me and ask if she has a question or needs my input. Ds7 needs a lot more handholding. Putting away clothes or straightening his room is a big deal to him. He really resisted getting ready in the morning. I told him he couldn't have breakfast until his bed was made and he was dressed for the day. It took a few days, but it is habit for him now. Ds5 is capable of doing something when asked, but he isn't completely consistent yet. I might have to ask him to do something several times before he does it.

[Meriwether]

Actually my oldest (almost 11) is the only one whose ears work. I could leave for a week and I'd come back to a clean home, clean happy children, and warm dinner with her in charge. :lol:

 

I do *every* subject with them directly. But some things I have been trying to get them to do independently-like handwriting. Am I crazy for thinking a 9 year old (almost 10) can actually write the letter J without sneaking off to read Calvin & Hobbes? :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't actually usually do punishments unless I am truly beyond my limit (I have ptsd from reading Unconditional Parenting :lol: ). I right now have a reward system in place that only my oldest ever qualifies for. They get certain "Mom Dollars" for doing things. They do lose "Mom Dollars" for things like not doing piano practice because I figure if I pay an exorbitant amount of money every month, they can at least practice!

 

I know my list looks exhaustive and overwhelming, but it *shouldn't be* because I don't do it all consistently or often, by any means. The sports are seasonal and there is only aikido or gymnastics (depending on kid) right now-once a week for an hour. Even just doing math, phonics/spelling, and grammar daily has been impossible lately. I do try to keep it fun. We do Circle Time, which they love, we have Co-op every other week which ruins our schedule, but they wouldn't miss for the world, I have followed their every demand for schoolwork-one on one (or one on two) work in every subject of the materials they want & chose with me, including down to me doing 2 time periods for history and 4 languages.

 

I agree I need to simplify. But every time I try, they balk at the loss of subjects, I feel like a failure reading on here that someone else's 6 year old is doing differential equations (j/k), and it just doesn't help anyway. I do soooooooo much hand holding, but I can only hold so many hands at a time. More than anything, we are still trying to recover from being in a good mindset and routine to unschooling radically and the turmoil that produced. It may work for some people, but it truly destroyed our dynamic. :(

 

The only thing that keeps my 3 yo happy is Mr. Rogers. And as wonderful as he is, I feel bad making her a zombie all day! :lol:

 

My kids love the history read-alouds, projects, art, etc. I have a very full schedule for them. Very! I explain, sometimes often, that if they don't do the basics quickly, neatly, and with a good attitude, I do not have the time and energy to do the extras. This isn't a threat; it is the simple truth.

[livingnlearning]

OP you say you threaten to take away treats, DO YOU?

 

If you don't follow through you're teaching them to ignore you.

 

Their job right now is to do what you say, in appropriate measures for their ages you need to enforce that. Honestly, you sound like you're wimping out. You have rewards in place and are busying yourself with charts and systems and mom dollars but a fat pup will not work for treats. Their bosses some day will not let them work for rewards when they want to. The real world sounds a whole lot tougher than your household. You sound like you are trying to weedle them into doing what you want. How's that working? I have found, through animals and kids, that the reward system works best with a consequence system. YMMV

 

Granted I think we are coming from different planets... but you sound like you are trying to bribe them to obey with rewards and they have your number.

[Tmhearn]

I'm not sure I have anything productive to add, but I about died laughing at your "singing through the house Waldorf style" comment!

 

I only have 3 kids and feel very overwhelmed at times. I do intentionally slow down this time of year. Can you put a few things aside for now - either outside activities or complete subjects?

 

What about having the older kids take turns playing with the 3 year old while you work with the other children?

 

Do you have a good rhythm in place? (There's that Waldorf again. Ha ha ha!) Seriously, one of my kids seems to work better in life with a predictable order to the day.

 

Can you do some work with kids after dad gets home? I find that it's easier to get Science done (especially experiments) when dad is home too occupy the toddler.

 

Hope something helps you...

[mommymilkies]

Yes, I do. If I say "No dessert", there is NO dessert. The problem is that they just don't care. If I say we can't xyz unless abc is done, they don't do it and don't appear to care. I take away Nintendo privileges, for example, if they refuse to clean up their mess, and they will go months without playing. They'll complain occasionally, but they won't clean. That's my biggest problem. The apparent apathy. Not doing what I need them to do is much more important. Even if I explain why I need their help.

[mommymilkies]

I'm not sure I have anything productive to add, but I about died laughing at your "singing through the house Waldorf style" comment!

 

I only have 3 kids and feel very overwhelmed at times. I do intentionally slow down this time of year. Can you put a few things aside for now - either outside activities or complete subjects?

 

What about having the older kids take turns playing with the 3 year old while you work with the other children?

 

Do you have a good rhythm in place? (There's that Waldorf again. Ha ha ha!) Seriously, one of my kids seems to work better in life with a predictable order to the day.

 

Can you do some work with kids after dad gets home? I find that it's easier to get Science done (especially experiments) when dad is home too occupy the toddler.

 

Hope something helps you...

 

:lol: Putting aside extracurriculars won't work. We're pretty isolated and it's my kids' only social interaction outside the home a lot of the time.

 

The oldest two do usually help with the 3 year old. But she's a hurricane! It doesn't help that our house is an open plan with wood floors that echoes if so much as a moth lands outside. There is no way to get privacy or quiet around here. I can't wait to move! Dh being home makes it worse. WAY worse. He plays Nintendo/guitar the whole time and if he's home it's automatic play time no matter what. They will not do anything if he is home. And he is home earlier than usual nowadays, so I get no alone time at quiet time, no down time, and our work has to be done sooner. :( No real way around that, though, because he gets offended if I bring it up.

 

Thanks for the suggestions and commiseration, everyone. I have tried everything. I feel like a huge failure and just...so lost. Everything seems to be blowing up and just in the past few months my days have been so chaotic. I can't take it.

[Parrothead]

:lol: Putting aside extracurriculars won't work. We're pretty isolated and it's my kids' only social interaction outside the home a lot of the time.

 

The oldest two do usually help with the 3 year old. But she's a hurricane! It doesn't help that our house is an open plan with wood floors that echoes if so much as a moth lands outside. There is no way to get privacy or quiet around here. I can't wait to move! Dh being home makes it worse. WAY worse. He plays Nintendo/guitar the whole time and if he's home it's automatic play time no matter what. They will not do anything if he is home. And he is home earlier than usual nowadays, so I get no alone time at quiet time, no down time, and our work has to be done sooner. :( No real way around that, though, because he gets offended if I bring it up.

 

Thanks for the suggestions and commiseration, everyone. I have tried everything. I feel like a huge failure and just...so lost. Everything seems to be blowing up and just in the past few months my days have been so chaotic. I can't take it.

It is time to quit until after Thanksgiving. School at least.

 

Work on finding the oldest two's currency. Sounds like maybe you only need to figure out what motivates the second oldest. Have you tried taking away extra curriculars? (don't worry about socialization, you have plenty of kids for them to socialize with each other.) What about money? Isolation (time spent on one' s bed doing nothing)? Spanking? Doing the disgusting chores if one can't do the regular chores (cleaning out the garbage cans comes to mind. But it might be fun at that age.)

 

The rest are a bit young. Use the time to practice obeying.

 

Begin the afternoon quiet time after lunch (or when the baby naps) Initiate it as a new rule for the winter. Everyone to their rooms and no one comes out unless there is blood or fire for an hour each day. Dh too if you can manage it.

 

Have you tried chores being done together? Pick an area and everyone gathers there.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Parrothead

[Mrs Mungo]

Uhhhh...the kids are ignoring you and your dh plays wii or guitar while they do it? Is that what you are saying. Some houses have good cop/bad cop. Your house has no cop. That is your problem. My house has bad cop/worse cop that you really don't want to mess with. So, I am not sure what to tell you.

[Halcyon]

Here's what I think (and I'm basing my advice on the exposure, limited I'll grant you, to unschooling parents who decide to move to a more academic schedule):

 

It is very, very hard to move from unschooling to structured schooling. Every single parent I have talked to who has unschooled and then moved to academic schooling (by this I mean expectations, workbooks, assignments, etc.) has had a huge challenge. My friend who has always unschooled, and still in many ways does, has an 8 year old (and a 6 yo and a 4 yo, but she's not trying anything much with them yet) and she has just begun to have her child do a bit of academic schooling, and she can barely get her to do one, single, solitary worksheet every day. For 10 minutes. That's all she requires and it's a HUGE struggle. Her daughter is wonderful: bright, inquisitive, polite and kind. But she has gotten used to her life where she does whatever she wants, whenever she wants, a life where there was no authority saying "you need to read this passage" or "you need to write these words". I am a big Alfie Kohn fan, and I also have done a lot of reading on unschooling and while I absolutely appreciate some aspects of unschooling, the fact is it does not neccesarily help a child learn how to apply themselves. Now, I know there are a few unschooled kids who build a robot at 7 and master Mandarin and calculus at 8 because they were just so interested and such :tongue_smilie: but IMO, most children need to learn how to sit down and apply themselves, and only then, when they see the rewards (the ability to read more advanced and interesting literature, a real understanding of a challenging science article, the ability to engage Uncle Ned on a topic of mutual interest, or perhaps simply the joy that comes with mastering a challenging topic) do they say "Aha! This is kinda cool!"

 

So in the end, here's my advice, and take it for what you will: require your (older) children to do what, in your opinion, you consider to be the bare minimum. Perhaps that's one page of math, reading for 20 minutes and writing a sentence. I don't know--that's your call. They will finish that. They will not leave the table until it's done. Period. They will have no toys, no tv, no games, no playing, nothing, until it's done. Do not make it an overwhelming amount of stuff-maybe an hour's worth to start if they apply themselves (maybe less). Do not get upset or ticked off. Just be matter of fact: "Kids, this is the way it is, you will not be allowed to leave this table until you are done with these assignments. I will be there for you if you need me, but I don't want to see you leave the table. If you do, you will get an extra assignment/question/etc. every time you stand up." I am not a fan of turning work into punishment, or "punishment" in general. But IMO, they need to get that you're not asking that much, and their job is to complete the assigments.

 

It will be very, very hard in the beginning. You need a lot of rest, the support of your DH (really, get him on board) and probably a lot of chocolate and scotch (just kidding). Write inspirational quotes on your fridge for yourself. Practice meditating each morning.

 

You can do it.

[Halcyon]

Everyone to their rooms and no one comes out unless there is blood or fire for an hour each day. Dh too if you can manage it.

 

 

 

This too.

[2squared]

Yes, I do. If I say "No dessert", there is NO dessert. The problem is that they just don't care. If I say we can't xyz unless abc is done, they don't do it and don't appear to care. I take away Nintendo privileges, for example, if they refuse to clean up their mess, and they will go months without playing. They'll complain occasionally, but they won't clean. That's my biggest problem. The apparent apathy. Not doing what I need them to do is much more important. Even if I explain why I need their help.

 

How do you approach them with picking up messes (as an example)? Do you ask, do you bribe, do you threaten? I have a very similar crew, and they don't want to pick up. But, when I warn them that when we are done with xyz it will be picking up time and I don't give them a choice as to their participation. I don't explain or bribe. It just is. Life stops after xyz and we pick up. While we are picking up, I am physically helping them and directing everyone. We work as a team and get it done. I am finally seeing the fruits of my efforts with my oldest two being able to do some things out of my sight.

 

The other important thing for us is to have the same, consistent routine. Day in and day out. Mondays are extremely hard to get everyone back in the groove even though the weekend is only two days long. You would think they had a whole month off of the routine!

[Trish]

You have my sympathy! :grouphug: I think you need a simpler and stricter routine. Eh, my 10-year-old does NOT do handwriting independently. And I don't want him to, because when I'm not looking he resumes the bad habits. Do less, but make sure it gets done.

 

I think this is a combination of being overwhelmed (I hear you on the wailing baby!), kids not independent yet, and maybe Too High Expectations. Pick what needs to get done and MAKE SURE that gets done. Don't deem things a failure when it's probably more like A Stage.

 

Hang in there!

[Night Elf]

I didn't care about those things when I was a child either. They seemed to have no relevance to my life. While I hate doing high school work with my son particularly, I am really enjoying all the subjects on a personal level. I'm getting much more out of school when I'm homeschooling my children than I ever did when I was in grades K-12.

 

And I grew up fine and now understand the importance of education, good hygiene, a clean house, healthy food, etc. I guess it's just our job as parents to do the caring for the kids until they care on their own. :tongue_smilie:

 

In my 10 years of homeschooling, I've run the gamut of all homeschool methods that I am aware of, including radical unschooling. It was actually a time where I learned a lot about myself. But then we moved back to regular homeschooling and I'll admit things weren't great. No punishment or incentives worked for them. They just didn't care and didn't want to do things. Like you, I tried every trick in the book. Finally, I just sat them down and told them that we all had to do some things we didn't want to do and I was tired of trying to bribe them to do what they should be doing. Dad doesn't get bribed to do his job. I don't get bribed to take care of them and the house. Therefore, they don't get bribed to do their part. I did implement some things like a 4-day school week and a daily school schedule that allowed them to check off boxes and know exactly how much they had to do each day before they were FREE.

 

What really changed things was moving them to a boxed curriculum. We had tried Calvert school and Sonlight before but I never followed them the way they were designed. I always tweaked things. Well, about 5 years ago, we moved to K12 and followed it to the letter. They didn't like the amount of work because they were used to me modifying the load. But I told them we were going to just follow the plan, do what was scheduled for each day, and get on with life. They did so much better with school work. Now they are in an accredited high school program that is still very traditional. What can I say? They do well with textbooks and someone else's schedule. My dd13 explained to me that school work with pretty stickers, games and songs was still schoolwork. The fluff just got in her way. She wanted to just dig in, do the work, close the book, and move on. And it sure did work that way for all of them.

 

Good luck. Sorry you're having a rough time right now. :grouphug:

[mommymilkies]

You all are so wise!

 

Dh goes the authoritarian route in a bad way, so I feel compelled to step in as the only cop, if possible. They actually behave MUCH more for me than him because I am reasonable and usually even-tempered. I don't know if we're all in a funk or what, though. I almost feel like they're manipulating me so that I'm stressed out enough to call off school and let them do as they please. But that could be my nerves talking right now. :tongue_smilie:

 

Halcyon-it really is sooooo hard. It was easy changing to be unschoolers, but changing back is nearly impossible. They hated unschooling, too. They thrive on routine and structure and me being more involved with their learning. They really do. So I don't understand why there is now the pushing back? I'm going to have to take your advice and work on it tomorrow.

 

2squared-We do a nightly clean up that goes over well. I put on music and we do 15 minutes together. The older two are wondefully helpful. The middle two make me rip my hair out. They used to help more. Now they make me consider all of the pretty duct tape colors (really, I'm joking. Nobody call CPS!). I try to keep a good routine and they have even had input in what works and does not for them. But then something will happen like dh puts cartoons on in the morning (even though I've told him not to for years) and I know right then the day will be crap. Nothing will work. We don't even have cable, so he'll go out of his way to find something to put on. :cursing:

 

4 kids was easy breezy. 5 kids is looking to be a whooooole other ballgame! And I have no idea why. My oldest two are old enough that they are wonderful helps and don't need me to change their diapers! :D

[justamouse]

:grouphug:

 

Those years you're in the thick of were some of my worst. Ever. Like KILL ME NOW.

 

Stop punishing. If they don't care now, they're not going to care when you up the ante.

 

Stop schoolwork. Take from now until after Christmas off. I kid you not. Plus, what they're learning now in way of being a family will undermine school until you graduate them if you let it go.

 

Take a week off and read, something to get YOU back into balance. that's your oxygen mask. Then, pull them in close, rebuild your relationships with fun, with love, with teaching them to respect you and each other. They are showing you that there isn't enough relationship built between you all for consequences to matter.

 

Start doing chores together (yes, this is going to take work from you) go together and fold laundry. Dump out the mismatch basket and match together. Wash the molding together. Do the dishes every night. Organize together. Pick a job each day and do it together. Working together builds relationship. It also teaches them how to work, and you will be able to redirect/guide/nip in the bud while you're there. Get outside and rake. You will be surprised at how well it works. Then reward with something fun. Hike, go to the park, fly kites, play catch. While you do these things, you'll end up talking, and you'll talk about school and you can talk about your new expectations. Build a schedule. work in the morning, play in the afternoon. That way they'll segue into their new school schedule. Then, when you start the new schedule, sit there at the table with them.

 

I'm not throwing stones, really, I did the same exact thing. And I also fixed it the same way I'm telling you to. I can tell you now that my kids are amazing. A pleasure to be around. I enjoy them every day, and there's not a day I wake up when I don't want to be around them. But it took the hard work of building/showing/teaching everyone to treasure our relationships with eachother.

Edited November 16, 2011 by justamouse

[Guest submarines]

:grouphug:

 

Those years you're in the thick of were some of my worst. Ever. Like KILL ME NOW.

 

Stop punishing. If they don't care now, they're not going to care when you up the ante.

 

Stop schoolwork. Take from now until after Christmas off. I kid you not. Plus, what they're learning now in way of being a family will undermine school until you graduate them if you let it go.

 

Take a week off and read, something to get YOU back into balance. that's your oxygen mask. Then, pull them in close, rebuild your relationships with fun, with love, with teaching them to respect you and each other. They are showing you that there isn't enough relationship built between you all for consequences to matter.

 

Start doing chores together (yes, this is going to take work from you) go together and fold laundry. Dump out the mismatch basket and match together. Wash the molding together. Do the dishes every night. Organize together. Pick a job each day and do it together. Working together builds relationship. It also teaches them how to work, and you will be able to redirect/guide/nip in the bud while you're there. Get outside and rake. You will be surprised at how well it works. Then reward with something fun. Hike, go to the park, fly kites, play catch. While you do these things, you'll end up talking, and you'll talk about school and you can talk about your new expectations. Build a schedule. work in the morning, play in the afternoon. That way they'll segue into their new school schedule. Then, when you start the new schedule, sit there at the table with them.

 

I'm not throwing stones, really, I did the same exact thing. And I also fixed it the same way I'm telling you to. I can tell you now that my kids are amazing. A pleasure to be around. I enjoy them every day, and there's not a day I wake up when I don't want to be around them. But it took the hard work of building/showing/teaching everyone to treasure our relationships with eachother.

 

This is beautiful. Thank you.

[Mrs Mungo]

You are letting your hubby off too easy. He can join in with planning the day, making a discipline plan and making it happen.

 

What happens in the morning? What does your ideal morning with perfect children look like? Now, what is the picture *least* like that but you can still deal with?

 

Does someone make breakfast? Are you feeding them protein? I have made posts with about looooads of ways to cook eggs, searching rancheros should bring them up. Print them off, keep it handy. Don't feed cereal or other sugar/carb bombs for breakfast. Kids should be getting dressed and doing any morning chores. If you have a dishwasher, then the 9 and 10 year olds can take turns unloading it first thing. If your dh is home in the morning, then he can help. Breakfast table is cleared (job for the 3 and 5 year olds), dishes rinsed and put in the dishwasher. If everyone stays hopping to be ready for the day, then there is no time for cartoons.

 

Continue to make a plan for the rest of the day.

 

Everyone sits during school time. Playdough or Montessori style activities can help entertain the youngers. If the wiggles get too bad, then the kids run laps around the yard. At the end of each lap they do 10 pushups or situps. Ten minutes of that and my kids are ready to be cooperative again.

 

What happens while you make lunch? If chaos ensues, then you need a different plan. Maybe your dh packs lunchboxes for the kids as if they were going off to school. Kids who want a hot lunch will have to cooperate to make it happen again.

 

What happens when you are feeding the baby? Or putting baby to sleep? You need a plan for those times.

 

During the nighttime tidy you take the 3 year old, your dh takes the 5 year old and you both say, "pick up that sock and put it in the hamper" and you walk with them to the hamper. You say, "pick up these books," and you walk with them to the shelf and show the correct way to put the books away. You keep doing that the entire tidy time until they learn.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[happypamama]

I would spend some time really drilling the routine. At my house, this would mean that we'd stop school (or at least not fret about what doesn't get done) for a few weeks. We'd drill the morning routine (getting dressed, making beds, bringing down laundry, feeding pets/unloading dishwasher, taking out the trash) until it was ingrained in their heads. Mine hate for me to stand over them, since they are sure they're not babies, so if that's what I had to do, I'd do it. Once that routine was down, I'd move on to adding a couple of school subjects -- maybe three, including one must-do, and one that they really like (here, it would be math and history). I would be on them every second -- remove all distractions (as much as possible) and just be on them. If I needed to go change the baby (assuming I couldn't do it in the schoolroom so I could be next to them), they'd come with me. Every time they got distracted, I'd be right there to redirect them back to their work. Then when they got that routine down, I'd in a few more subjects, and a few weeks later, more, until we had everything.