Possibly changing churches . . . without the family?

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm in the midst of a painful situation, and I could use . . . I don't know . . . Help? Advice? Commiseration? A slap upside the head?

 

I've posted previously about the mess that happened at my church surrounding placing my son in youth group and Sunday school classes this year. I'm not going to bore everyone by re-hashing it here. But the fall-out from that situation is that I no longer feel comfortable or happy going to church. I've been avoiding it for weeks with a series of convenient other committments.

 

Neither my husband nor either kid is especially interested in being there, either. However, both kids feel very strongly that this church is "home." The feel they pretty much grew up there, and they have a strong emotional connection to the idea of this particular church, even if they are not currently happy there.

 

My daughter rarely makes an effort to go. My son is happy just saying hi to his friends and then reading a book during the sermon. (We've allowed that because it is during the time he would be outside if he were participating in religious education this year.) My husband has never had much interest in the religious aspect of church and has been honest about the fact that all he really cares about is the social connections. He rarely attended at all until we moved within walking distance.

 

One Sunday, my husband took the kids while I tried to sleep (because I had been out until 3:00 am). They came home 20 minutes into the service, because they had heard the parts they cared about and didn't want to stay.

 

Today, my son has asked to go over a few minutes before the service starts so he can say hello to friends, but he isn't interested in staying for church unless certain friends are there and he can sit with them.

 

In the midst of all of this, I am feeling adrift and sad and not spiritually fed at all. And I think I'm the only one who actually cares about the "church" part of church. I miss that, and I'm ready to start looking elsewhere.

 

Every time I mention it, though, the kids get upset. This is true even when I make it clear that I'm not asking them to make the move with me, that I have no intention of burning bridges, that I will happily attend any services at the current church when either of them is participating in some way, etc. This morning, I finally said outright that I need to start looking at other churches. I said everything I just typed here, and yet my daughter almost cried, and my son was clearly angry and upset.

 

So, you've got to tell me: Am I being selfish? Should I suck it up and pretend I'm content?

 

If the answer to both of those questions is no, how can I make this less painful for my family, the kids especially?

 

What do I do?

[AK_Mom4]

:grouphug: I am sorry - this sounds really difficult for you!

 

It may seem like odd advice, but I think you need to stop discussing your church-changing plans with your kids. They know you aren't happy at "their" church - that's not news. When you tell them you want to go somewhere else, it probably sounds to them like a punishment - a threat to take away something that is important to them because you aren't happy. And I am sure that isn't what you mean at all!

 

If it were me, I would start visiting churches that had non-Sunday morning services. Maybe Wednesday or Saturday night programs that wouldn't conflict with the rest of your family's church-going time. When you find one you like, invite the family to try it with you. Maybe it will be a hit - maybe it will be a flop. In the meantime, show you are willing to meet them half-way by going to the 1st 20 minutes of the old service.

 

It sounds like you have mentally "left" the old church, but your family isn't at the same place. A slow transition to something new might make it easier for everyone else.

[Little Nyssa]

:grouphug:

[Whereneverever]

I don't think you are being selfish, especially since the kids aren't fully attending. Them going over just to socialize shouldn't block you from attending somewhere that nurtures your spirit.

[Rivka]

Oh, that sounds so hard. I'm sorry.

 

I don't know how many options you have to choose from, but is it possible to find a church with an earlier worship service, attend by yourself, and then go with your family to your current church for coffee hour?

 

I also wonder if it would be helpful in the longer term to get connected to a UU summer camp or conference - if it might help your kids transfer their sense of belongingness to the denomination rather than the specific congregation. SUUSI comes to mind first - a lot of Florida people go there - but there are also UU teen programs at The Mountain in NC.

[KungFuPanda]

What if you went to your regular church every other week? On the alternate weeks you could explore other options. You won't find a better fit if you don't look. Make it an adventure. Go to lunch afterwards and discuss the pros and cons. Keep a running list. Give the contenders a second (or third) look then make an informed choice as a family (with parental votes carrying more weight).

 

Honestly, I think kids can be more set in their ways than adults and they often need an experience to pin an idea to.

[Jenny in Florida]

:grouphug: I am sorry - this sounds really difficult for you!

 

It may seem like odd advice, but I think you need to stop discussing your church-changing plans with your kids. They know you aren't happy at "their" church - that's not news. When you tell them you want to go somewhere else, it probably sounds to them like a punishment - a threat to take away something that is important to them because you aren't happy. And I am sure that isn't what you mean at all!

 

If it were me, I would start visiting churches that had non-Sunday morning services. Maybe Wednesday or Saturday night programs that wouldn't conflict with the rest of your family's church-going time. When you find one you like, invite the family to try it with you. Maybe it will be a hit - maybe it will be a flop. In the meantime, show you are willing to meet them half-way by going to the 1st 20 minutes of the old service.

 

It sounds like you have mentally "left" the old church, but your family isn't at the same place. A slow transition to something new might make it easier for everyone else.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

There's not a hint of punishment of any kind, I promise. Both kids and my husband know exactly how tortured I am about this. And I'm not the only one who'e unhappy. Neither kid especially wants to go. They just want to maintain some kind of connection.

 

I don't talk about it much, either. This has been going on for a couple of months, now. And it's only been in the last two weeks that I've so much as mentioned looking elsewhere. Today is the first time I've said anything "real" about trying a new church, even.

 

It's just very difficult for us. This is the only church my kids remember attending. We've been going since before my son could walk. When we moved to Florida, we picked our location in part because there was a UU church, and we attended our first service there before we even rented an apartment. So, I am aware that this is a huge, huge thing. I've compared it to a divorce.

 

:grouphug:

 

Thanks.

 

I really do think that one of the best contributions parents can make to their children's religious formation is to model the spiritual journey -- which means being willing to embrace change when necessary and not just settling for the status quo.

 

:grouphug: to you.

 

That's a very interesting thought, one I hadn't considered. I'll have to ponder that for a while.

 

And thank you, too, for the hugs.

 

Oh, that sounds so hard. I'm sorry.

 

I don't know how many options you have to choose from, but is it possible to find a church with an earlier worship service, attend by yourself, and then go with your family to your current church for coffee hour?

 

In terms of UU churches, we have two within anything like a reasonable driving distance. The one we've been attending is the larger and started having two services just this fall. The other one is smaller and has a single service kind of smack in the middle of the two at our current church. They also have a much smaller RE program and just have less going on week to week.

 

I've actually been looking at other denominations, for a variety of reasons. While I've considered UU-ism my family for many years, now, there are things about the denomination that I've found not resonating for me. (This is the third UU church of which I've been a member, and we've visited others. So, I'm not basing this feeling on this church alone.) Several years ago, I flirted with making a change, but decided at that time that it would be too wrenching for my family.

 

Also, there is no way to stick with the UUs and do what you suggest (which is what I would consider ideal, too). There is no UU service I could attend and still show up at the current church.

 

I also wonder if it would be helpful in the longer term to get connected to a UU summer camp or conference - if it might help your kids transfer their sense of belongingness to the denomination rather than the specific congregation. SUUSI comes to mind first - a lot of Florida people go there - but there are also UU teen programs at The Mountain in NC.

 

My daughter attended a summer session at The Mountain and loved it. She hasn't been back -- and we haven't managed to send our son -- because the dates always conflict with our local theatres' summer stock programs. When push comes to shove, with my kids, theatre wins over church.

 

I've wanted to go to SUUSI for years, but we have the same problem there.

 

It's an intruging idea, though. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Again, thanks everyone for chiming in. It is, honestly, a situation that is painful all around. Something we're trying to come to grips with is the fact that, no matter what I or we do -- whether we stay here and try to make it work, try a different church or just quit going altogether -- our relationship with this church will never be the same. Even if we smooth everything over and put the pieces back in place, it will always be a cracked pot held together with glue. We can't ever go back to the way things were.

[Starr]

I'm sorry. It is really hard to go through such a big change. But if you feel it is really over and it sounds like it is I would think the sooner you move on the better. The feeling of changing is worse than the change. What's the point of seeing friends for a few minutes and heading home? Next Sunday go to the church you've been considering and see how you like it. :grouphug: The family can sort themselves out in time.

[brett_ashley]

So, I am aware that this is a huge, huge thing. I've compared it to a divorce.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. In my opinion, families are metaphorically married to their church and without sufficient grounds for divorce (metaphorical adultery against her tenets), you should just stick it out. I vaguely recall the problem was primarily with one person--that person won't be around forever, and if s/he is--s/he is not the church in its entirety.

[Rosie_0801]

No, you're not being selfish. The kids aren't upset out of concern for your ever lasting spiritual health. They are upset because they don't like change. If they are using their emotions to try and manipulate you, they are being selfish. That said with no negative judgment! They are only kids and haven't felt this kind of pull on their spiritual selves yet.

 

I'd suggest that your husband could have a teamwork pep talk. Nobody is stopping them doing what they need to do and what you need to do is not damaging that. You are keeping your desire to change in your own space. They need to keep their desire for you not to change in their own space.

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

[Evergreen State Sue]

Our family changed churches, but our kids were probably 6-8 at the time. I kept the kids in the Awana program at the old church so they had opportunity to be around their friends from the old church. I don't know the background of your problem with this church to know if keeping them connected with friends through a regular church program would work. If not, could you just regularly invite their friends over to keep their friendship going?

 

From what you said, the rest of your family is using the church as their social club. My advice would be to meet their social needs, but seek out another church for their spiritual needs. The Lord could be leading you to another church that can meet both of these needs. Perhaps what you are feeling is the prompting by the Holy Spirit to make this change. The Thanksgiving and Christmas season is an excellent time to check out another church.

[EmilyK]

I didn't read your other thread, so I apologize if this is off-the-point:

 

I don't like the social aspect of church. I'm so busy and dealing with people all the time, that the social part of church is really a barrier to me having any sort of spiritual feeling. That has led me to going to taize services which are at a variety of denominations in my area, and usually in the evening, and to other sorts of services in the off hours that don't seem to come with all the social trappings. But if finding a denomination and church home that you really join socially is important to you, that won't work.

 

is it important to your kids that you all go together? or to you that all 4 of you attend the same church? Sounds like they could attend with your husband, or since it is walking distance the kids could just go there together.

 

In my family we tend to allow ourselves to do activities in different combinations -- more often than not we don't do things all 4 of us. My 13 year old might skip going out for breakfast, I might skip going to a movie -- not a big deal for us. In some families I know that would really go against the grain, so one person not going to church might be upsetting.

[Jenny in Florida]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. In my opinion, families are metaphorically married to their church and without sufficient grounds for divorce (metaphorical adultery against her tenets), you should just stick it out. I vaguely recall the problem was primarily with one person--that person won't be around forever, and if s/he is--s/he is not the church in its entirety.

 

Unfortunately, no, the problem is with two people, the director of religious education and the minister. The minister is recently settled -- less than two years -- and so will likely be here for at least a decade.

 

And, since those two people are effectively the leadership of the church, there is nowhere to turn that is not under their control.

 

The way these folks behaved was not in any way consistent with the principles of the church, and I no longer trust them or the organization they run. I believe that they betrayed our trust in a way that is not likely to be reparable. And no one has tried, in any case.

[HS Mom in NC]

I believe the purpose of corporate worship services at a church are to feed the believers spiritual food. I don't believe it's about socializing. (That can happen incidentally before or after, or at another church event focused on fellowship.) I don't believe in going to one out of habit or using it like a buffet where you pick a sampling of this and that or whatever suits you at the moment and walking away from the rest. So, it won't surprise you that my advice is to get yourself to a church that meets your convictions and is full of like-minded believers so you can be nourished and grow.

 

Whether you need to find a different congregation or a different denomination is not something I could advise, but I will say spiritually starving is a bad thing to do to yourself. No one who is as shallowly connected to a church as the rest of your family is described as being should be making any decisions that influence where you attend. I say go alone if necessary. They can socialize on their own time wherever they like, but they can't cut into your worship time.

 

I changed churches this year after 10 years at the same one. I was very involved. The one I went to was having serious issues that some of the leadership refused to acknowledge at first, then begrudgingly made a few half-hearted attempts to change, then went back to bad decisions, including "dumbing it" down to the point of being almost content free. The people were starving and more than half left after seeing nothing was going to change. If the only solid leadership there leaves, another quarter of the original number will be leaving too. I still go to a small Bible study group with people from the church I used to attend. We still hang out with them socially sometimes too.

[Jenny in Florida]

is it important to your kids that you all go together? or to you that all 4 of you attend the same church? Sounds like they could attend with your husband, or since it is walking distance the kids could just go there together.

 

The truth is that I've been the motivator for attending church at all for most of the years we've been going. My husband goes long stretches without attending more than two or three times a year. So, I think the kids are well aware that my disengaging would likely mean the whole family eventually stops going.

 

In my family we tend to allow ourselves to do activities in different combinations -- more often than not we don't do things all 4 of us. My 13 year old might skip going out for breakfast, I might skip going to a movie -- not a big deal for us. In some families I know that would really go against the grain, so one person not going to church might be upsetting.

 

We often break into pairs and trios, too. In fact, it's a rare evening that finds all four of us home and in the same room. My kids are both busy with lots of activities and outside committments, meaning that, at any given time, two of us aren't home. For most of the years the kids have been aware of it, going to church has been something I do with one or both of them. (My daughter was away at school for four years.) My husband used to be around only for holiday and social stuff.

 

My son, especially, though, really loves it when the four of us go places and do things together.

 

And, as I mentioned above, I'm sure he's perceptive enough to figure out that, if I quit, he won't have an opportunity to be as involved. There's not any kind of chance that my husband will volunteer to teach Sunday school or plan and run the Easter party, let alone help the youth group put on the fund-raising variety show. And my son is part of a tight-knit group of four kids, all of whom are active at that church. Without me around, his opportunities would become more limited.

 

I think it's mostly the emotional connection, though. As I said, both of them say frequently that they fell like they grew up in that church. Most of their memories of being younger are of things that happened there. In the time we've been in Florida, we've lived in three apartments and three houses, but there's been only one church home.

[mcconnellboys]

It seems to me that no one is being spiritually fed there and that if you go elsewhere and introduce them to a better place, they will be happy to move there with you....

[MSNative]

Not a fun situation. My family is a mixed family as far as religion. I desperately wanted my kids to see dh worship, so for years I went to his church. I did try to get involved but it was not my faith. So, I decided that I needed to get back to a place where I was spiritually fed. I told dh that any Sunday he wanted to go, we would all go to his church. Otherwise, I'd take the kids with me. Worked great for me and the kids, but not so well for dh. It effectively took him out of the picture in that area of our family life. So, when we moved, I was super motivated to find one church home for our family that we could all attend..............and I'm still looking. Ugh.

 

One bit of advice I would give - don't bring the kids and dh while you check out other churches. You try a few promising ones first. If you find one that looks good, go a couple more times solo. Then bring your family. Trust me, you will save yourself a lot of hassle. While you're doing that, could dh take the kids to your current church? Might be a way for a slow transition if they know you're looking but they are still getting to see their friends. Nothing wrong with trying to set up some times to get together with the important friends outside of church.

:grouphug:

[milovany]

We made a major change in churches almost three years ago, and not just denominationally (but from what some would call one branch of Christianity to another) and we weren't sure in the early stages what to expect in regard to our children. The oldest was 15 at the time, and we considered letting him stay at our previous church should he want to.

 

We all did decide, with fear and trembling, to begin attending the new church. It has been the best decision of our lives, and the kids are flourishing. They love church, they love our pastor, they long to go, they're living their faith not just at church but as a whole life, they have more friends (and deep, true friends) than they've ever had, etc. Sometimes you don't know what huge blessings can come from a change, you just have to press forward.

 

That's not to say every situation will be as described above, of course. But in your situation, where no one is really growing closer to God and where there's an underlying negative to things spiritual right now, it's quite possible that making a move would be beneficial for you all.

 

:grouphug:

 

AFTERTHOUGHT: Over at the Exploring Orthodoxy social group, there are a number of women who are looking into changing churches who may be doing so without their families for now. I know you're not necessarily interested in the Orthodox church, but if you want to bounce ideas/thoughts/questions off anyone's head over there, because they may have some insight for you in this specific situation, please feel free to do so.

Edited November 15, 2011 by milovaný