Nothing but baby in the crib....

[Perogi]

Did you see this on NBC Nightly News? The AAP recommends nothing but the baby and a tight fitting sheet in the crib. No bumpers, no blankets, no pillows, no toys, no loose bedding, no wedge/positioners, etc. They also say that the crib should be in the same room with the parents so they can see, hear, and touch the baby. Here's an article from Consumer Reports about "naked cribs".

 

Here's hoping that these recommendations cause some reform with our Children's Aid Society...We are foster parents and recently moved. Just this past week I met with someone from our new CAS to get the paperwork going so we can foster in our new city. I was very surprised to learn that they don't allow any babies in the parents' bedroom - our other agency allowed it up until age 2 and as I've always done that with my own and foster babes I was really thrown off. I'd love to show them these rec's and ask them to reconsider. We already have to do the "naked crib" thing.

[Perogi]

:) I did understand that.

 

I meant it in a more general way; this is just how a lot of people now speak about guidelines.

 

Mind you, it does seem a little nuts to me that state and agency rules are precise down to the way you place the child for a nap. Even foster parents and those adopting should be allowed to use their own God-given common sense, IMO. It strikes me as overkill. And still we hear of *outright abuse* in some foster homes. Where's the balance?

 

We are foster parents as well and I get that it seems like overkill at times but ultimately the agency is responsible and liable for the kids in care so they can't help but want to be explicit about the safest way of doing things.

[Tree House Academy]

We did all that. Then at 4 mos old, my son decided he wanted to sleep on his stomach. I put him on his back, but he rolled over every.single.time. He had to sleep with the wedge thing unless I wanted him to roll over. So...which is worse now? A child that rolls over or a wedge to keep them from rolling over.

[cindergretta]

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying not to encourage "safe co-sleeping" … Y'know what I mean? If you're going to co-sleep, then heck yeah do it as safely as possible! I meant that I don't think ALL families should be encouraged to co-sleep, because it just isn't possible that they'll all do it safely. The chances of something going wrong will be a lot higher in the sorts of environments I described - environments that exist in many places. (and the ones that I'm talking about are good parents who love their kids - they just have bad co-sleeping environments and the things that make it bad aren't likely to change.) ….

 

People who seek out co-sleeping info tend to be people who don't do those things anyway though, I suppose.

 

If you co-sleep, do it safely. If you can't do it safely, use a crib.

 

Hey - why do people use "western" like it's such a terrible thing? What makes our societies ways so awful and "eastern" (or whatever other cultures) way of doing things better?

 

I actually like the way certain things are done in other cultures - mixed generation homes, for example - but I don't think our OWN needs to be vilified for being what it is.. western. Y'know?

 

You're missing my point. ;) If we are encouraging safe sleeping practices for infants, IMO, it is just as appropriate to promote safe co-sleeping across the board as it is to promote safe crib sleeping. Period. I assume any given family is capable of safe co-sleeping. And studies bear out the idea the most families have, in fact, practiced some form of co-sleeping at some point or other.

 

In terms of my using "westernized," it was without any kind of judgement on eastern or western practices. It was to ilustrate that while western societies "historically" used family beds, eastern cultures *still do.* It is only a western and modern idea to have babies sleep separately. It is not historical or world wide. Does that make sense? I wasn't making a value judgement; just stating a cultural norm.

[MrsJewelsRae]

My babies always slept in bed with me and I've heard of the naked crib thing since my oldest was a baby (he's 9). I think the reason they say no bumper is because it can restrict airflow down at the mattress level where the baby is. I also think that chemicals in infant bedding and mattresses could be contributing to SIDS, personally. If my babies were in the crib there would be a fan on slow to move the air, and I always used an Angel Care monitor with the volume up high enough that I could hear them breathing if I were in another room. Yeah, I'm paranoid. We kept the crib in our room the first year. When I had my youngest in the hospital the nurse asked me where we planned to have our child sleep. Um, this is my 3rd kid, and since when do I need to get her approval of our sleeping conditions?! I know she is supposed to ask, it was just annoying. I firmly and confidently told her we planned to keep the baby in bed with us. Btw, we use pillows for us and a blanket which does not go above my waist when the baby is small, and I breastfeed on demand, and the baby is always in the crook of my arm. My dh is usually a heavy sleeper, we don't smoke or drink, and yet he was always very aware of the baby in our bed. Contrary to what all my friends said all my kids are great sleepers.

 

I personally think that the baby can regulate their breathing by hearing breathing next to him.

http://www.naturalchild.org/james_mckenna/babies_need.html

[Bluegoat]

Okay why do people keep calling it this or saying that I'm 'implying' that all men are this why? I never said ALL MEN blahblahblah. I said "Most of the people that I know would have yapyap" … and "it's usually the husbands" .. meaning the husbands in the families that I know.

 

I'm just speaking from my experience. My friends, family, social circle, whatever. Most of the men do smoke, most of the men do drink (I didn't say excessively - I'm talking a few beers after a long day at work), and from the grumbling I hear most of them also sleep like the dead and snore like a workhorse with a rat up its nose.

 

Maybe it's my background. Mix of low income/working class/whatever and military. Maybe that/those 'environments' tend to have different guys in them. I don't know.. [and I didn't say ALL here either]

 

Anyway. I never said ALL men.. but there are, obviously (cuz I'm seeing 'em!) many families for whom a suggestion to co-sleep would be a very bad idea.. if co-sleeping was the "normal suggestion" (ie: instead of the safe crib campaigns, we had co-sleep campaigns) then what happens there? You have a LOT of families who do something that their environment is not at all suited for.. they try, they get it half arsed because they just don't meet the "safe cosleeping" criteria.. y'know?

 

For those that did it, yay, glad it worked! I just don't think it's something that should be encouraged flat across the board… make sense?

 

I don't really think a guy having a few beer (2, maybe 3) between work and bed time would be impaired unless he drank them right before bed. The body of a grown man should normally be able to metabolize a beer an hour with no problem.

[Murphy101]

I'm just speaking from my experience. My friends, family, social circle, whatever. Most of the men do smoke, most of the men do drink (I didn't say excessively - I'm talking a few beers after a long day at work), and from the grumbling I hear most of them also sleep like the dead and snore like a workhorse with a rat up its nose.

 

Maybe it's my background. Mix of low income/working class/whatever and military. Maybe that/those 'environments' tend to have different guys in them. I don't know.. [and I didn't say ALL here either]

 

Anyway. I never said ALL men.. but there are, obviously (cuz I'm seeing 'em!) many families for whom a suggestion to co-sleep would be a very bad idea..

 

Stop digging the hole, woman! :tongue_smilie:A couple drinks does not normally make a man dead to the world. I don't know many men that sleep LIGHTER than military men. Low income and working class? Geez, I am both. I know lots of families that are both. And lately I hate to admit it, but *I* have recently started snoring far worse than dh!!! And snoring does not have anything to do with how deep a sleep a person is having. I am a very light sleeper. With the exception of smoking, nothing else you mention has anything to do with whether cosleeping would be a bad idea for those families.

[5knights3maidens]

How old are you? In 1980, SIDS deaths were three times as likely as they are now - 1.53 deaths per 1000 live births, compared to 0.51 deaths per 1000 live births now.

 

I had my 1st in 1985 and had my last (#8) in 2005. I cannot recall ever hearing about SIDS when I had the older children.

 

The last 2 are the only ones that slept on their backs and I know I still sometimes put them on their tummies.

 

All had blankets and 1 or 2 toys in their beds while they slept. #7 slept in a bassinet with a cozy soft snowsuit and a hat on during her first winter (on her back). Our bedroom was ice cold; no insulation...very old house.

 

And, the last 2 also slept with us many times.

[cathmom]

Same thing happened here - I woke one night in the middle of the night just *knowing* something was wrong. Dc #6 was not breathing. I did manage to get her roused/breathing by taking her clothes off. Someone had put a blanket sleeper on over a long-sleeved onsie in a warm house. I think she overheated. She did eventually get seen by a doctor and she was fine, but what if she hadn't been in the bed with me?:001_huh:

 

And the same thing happened here. DC3 was about 3 months old and sleeping in the bed with me. The bedroom was completely dark. Our cat meowed and woke me up slightly. I put my hand on the baby's chest and she was not breathing. I rolled her with my hand and roused her and she took a big gasping breath and was fine. Since there was no light, I did not see if she was turning blue or anything. She was lying on her back BTW. She went right back to sleep and I stayed awake all night making sure she was still breathing!

[LidiyaDawn]

Stop digging the hole, woman! :tongue_smilie:A couple drinks does not normally make a man dead to the world. I don't know many men that sleep LIGHTER than military men. Low income and working class? Geez, I am both. I know lots of families that are both. And lately I hate to admit it, but *I* have recently started snoring far worse than dh!!! And snoring does not have anything to do with how deep a sleep a person is having. I am a very light sleeper. With the exception of smoking, nothing else you mention has anything to do with whether cosleeping would be a bad idea for those families.

 

What hole? I'm just telling what I see! I don't know why it seemed to bug so many peoples. I guess I could pretend that I see different people. Or something. Yeah that works. I see.. green people with big teeth. :D <-- like that guy.

 

The social stuff ~ I don't know, I just suggested it might be environmental since people seemed surprised. I didn't say I was sure of it or anything.

 

Meh. Doesn't matter anyway. People do what they do and think what they think… I think co-sleeping is great for SOME families ~ ones where there is a safe physical environment. I don't believe that exists in every home. But it doesn't really matter what I think anyway.

 

Now I don't want to talk about co-sleeping anymore. The word is even starting to look weird, you know how like when you say something a bunch? :p

[SKL]

Yep. When we visited my grandparents and I had a 1 yr old and a 2 1/2 yr old, my grandma had borrowed a pack n play for the baby and had a small cot, like a toddler bed, for the 2 yr old. My 2 yr old decided he liked the pack n play better so I let him sleep in there and may grandma asked where the baby was going to sleep then. I told her that the baby sleeps with us (dh and I) anyway. My grandma was horrified and said in a worried voice "Oh, that is so dangerous!"

 

She raised 7 kids and she knows what she's doing on many things, and she means well, but she is from a generation that just accepted what doctors told them and truly believes babies can die from cosleeping. I told her there is a safe way to do it but I don't think she believed me.

 

Co-sleeping used to be done a lot, but not everyone did it safely. It was not at all unusual for a dad to roll over and kill a baby in the bed. My own great-uncle died that way (his dad was drunk, I'm told). So I understand where your granny was coming from.

 

If you can trust your husband and yourself to follow safe co-sleeping protocol, more power to you. But there really are people who shouldn't be sleeping with babies. It's an individual decision, but I do agree that info on safe co-sleeping should be available to all.

[vonfirmath]

What I've never understood is the greatest age for SIDS is between 2 and 4 months. What's it matter if you lay them on their back by that point? They are just going to roll over anyways! Do they expect you to roll them back onto their back? Surely not?:001_huh:.

 

Two month olds are not rolling over, generally, no.

[ElizaG]

It was to ilustrate that while western societies "historically" used family beds, eastern cultures *still do.* It is only a western and modern idea to have babies sleep separately.

It's been years since I read about this, but I seem to remember that there are various traditional cultures where babies sleep near the parents, but not in bed with them. IIRC, in some parts of Asia, the babies sleep in hammocks.

 

Am I imagining this?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Melissa, Here, state law is that a child can be in the foster parent's room up to age 3; but our agency rule is 1 year. I kinda think that they could simply use their infancy definition (up to 18mo) instead as I think 12mo may be a little early for some kids and 3 years too old in general. (note: my opinion holding for foster children/families, not every child/family).

 

We would seriously be in a world of hurt around here if we couldn't have Baby Girl in our room. The needs of my other children versus her needs are so different....

[sewingmama]

One website I visited cited research that showed that most "SIDS" deaths involved babies who (per autopsy evidence) had respiratory illnesses at the time. (Here's my own added two cents on that: cough syrup overdose.)

 

Not likely here in Australia - nobody will sell you over the counter cough medicine for a child under 2 without a doctor's prescription :glare:

 

I followed all the recs for my first child - what a nightmare that was. She didn't sleep -I didn't sleep for at least a year. I tried co-sleeping but that ended when I left the bed one night leaving her sleeping far away from DH and when I came back a few minutes later DH had rolled on top of her and I could not budge him to get her out. After much yelling and shaking and finally punching him I roused him and pulled DD out and she was red in the face and took a huge gasp of air -she was 6 months old. I never put her in our bed again. I did end up co-sleeping with #3 but I was sleeping in a seperate bed from DH then due to his snoring.

 

I hated those sleep bag things -I tried them with all my kids but I thought they were dangerous - my kids would get all tangled in them and scream in frustration because they couldn't move themselves around - if they got stuck somewhere they wouldn't have been able to free themselves. I stopped using them after my DD tried to stand up in one -tripped and smacked her head on the crib rail.

 

Basically I just don't sleep for their first year.

[LidiyaDawn]

You know what works well if you (or your kids) don't like the snuggy bag things? Fleecy sleepers! They're warm, comfy, and your baby can move around just fine. like this :)

[Murphy101]

Two month olds are not rolling over, generally, no.

 

:001_huh: Sure they are? I think all of mine have been rolling one way at about 2 months and certainly both ways by about 3 months. Levi is just turned 4 months and he has been rolling everywhere for some time now. He rolls and scoots on his back to get anywhere he wants in the floor. I think all except 2 of my babies have done the same. I don't think it is all that unusual.

 

What hole? I'm just telling what I see! I don't know why it seemed to bug so many peoples.

 

If you can't see how your portrayal comes across as insulting to several demographics or how it lacks any logic base - then I can't help you. The hole I was referring to was expanding the offending categories. You obvious don't agree or can't see it or whatever. So I'll stop here on it.:)

[butterflymommy]

I am so paranoid about this stuff. Babies can even strangle themselves on fitted sheets. It nearly happened to my 2nd youngest DD. At around 10 months she got the sheet loose and rolled it around herself such that it was around her neck and hooked over her feet. The more she kicked her feet the tighter it got around her neck, like a tourniquet. I realized her cries sounded strange and I found her in this state when I walked into the nursery. I nearly had to use scissors to get the thing off her. You can buy sheets that completely envelope the mattress top and bottom (like a bag) to avoid this.

 

I hate cribs. HATE them. At this point I'm using a playpen in a public part of the house where we can check DD frequently.

[LidiyaDawn]

What hole? I'm just telling what I see! I don't know why it seemed to bug so many peoples.

 

 

 

If you can't see how your portrayal comes across as insulting to several demographics or how it lacks any logic base - then I can't help you. The hole I was referring to was expanding the offending categories. You obvious don't agree or can't see it or whatever. So I'll stop here on it.:)

 

Like I said, I'm just *saying what I see* …and the mention of 'social background' or whatever the heck it would be called was just an offering of a possible reason why I see it.. people were asking. It was a MAYBE. Like here, maybe this is why? Maybe it isn't.

 

Ah well, whatev. We don't have to agree with each other ~ the world would be really boring if everyone always did that.

 

It's 8am here and I have french vanilla coffee. This makes me a happy chick. :D

[Perogi]

Melissa, Here, state law is that a child can be in the foster parent's room up to age 3; but our agency rule is 1 year. I kinda think that they could simply use their infancy definition (up to 18mo) instead as I think 12mo may be a little early for some kids and 3 years too old in general. (note: my opinion holding for foster children/families, not every child/family).

 

We would seriously be in a world of hurt around here if we couldn't have Baby Girl in our room. The needs of my other children versus her needs are so different....

 

I'm going to pass this info and the new AAP rec's on to my agency and see if it makes any impact. I honestly never even considered that they wouldn't allow us to have babe in our room - especially as I'm still in the same province and should be regulated by the same gov ministry!! I had used our spare bedroom as a school room so now I'll have to move things all around in order to have a bedroom for the baby. I don't really want babe sharing with ds as I think it would be disruptive for him. And he's 4.5yo - at 6yo he'll only be allowed to have boy babies in his room with him, so it's a short term solution anyway.

 

I'm not sure what the reasoning could be behind this?? It just doesn't make sense to me. Apparantly they allow it in "special circumstances" when they can document medical reasons or something that requires a higher level of supervision.

[SKL]

:001_huh: Sure they are? I think all of mine have been rolling one way at about 2 months and certainly both ways by about 3 months. Levi is just turned 4 months and he has been rolling everywhere for some time now. He rolls and scoots on his back to get anywhere he wants in the floor. I think all except 2 of my babies have done the same. I don't think it is all that unusual.

 

Nowadays many babies don't learn to roll over as early because they are not allowed to spend as much time on their tummies. Sleeping on the tummy gives babies the opportunity to develop the ability to roll over.

 

A family friend's baby rolled over at a week old. Now that was unusual, but by around 2-3 months old used to be pretty normal. I'm not sure what is normal nowadays.

[Murphy101]

Nowadays many babies don't learn to roll over as early because they are not allowed to spend as much time on their tummies. Sleeping on the tummy gives babies the opportunity to develop the ability to roll over.

 

A family friend's baby rolled over at a week old. Now that was unusual, but by around 2-3 months old used to be pretty normal. I'm not sure what is normal nowadays.

 

Oh good. Thought I was going nuts for a minute there bc I don't *think* my kids are particularly advanced!

 

We don't use baby stuff much. We recently got a baby swing. And a friend gave us one of those saucer things. Never had them before. No crib. No playpen. We hold our babies LOTS. If they aren't being held they are usually asleep and or in the floor on a blanket. If I'm cooking or doing dishes, I just lay them on the floor at my feet. If someone isn't available to hold them (there's 7 people here capable of holding a baby!) and he isn't happy in the floor, then we resort to the swing or saucer, though his attention span for them is about 15 minutes before he starts screaming. Maybe. Usually we just stop whatever and take turns trying to make him happy. *shrugs*

[SKL]

Oh good. Thought I was going nuts for a minute there bc I don't *think* my kids are particularly advanced!

 

We don't use baby stuff much. We recently got a baby swing. And a friend gave us one of those saucer things. Never had them before. No crib. No playpen. We hold our babies LOTS. If they aren't being held they are usually asleep and or in the floor on a blanket. If I'm cooking or doing dishes, I just lay them on the floor at my feet. If someone isn't available to hold them (there's 7 people here capable of holding a baby!) and he isn't happy in the floor, then we resort to the swing or saucer, though his attention span for them is about 15 minutes before he starts screaming. Maybe. Usually we just stop whatever and take turns trying to make him happy. *shrugs*

 

I just found an online poll that said about 15% of babies rolled over before 2 mos (maybe many of the ones who haven't adopted B2S?) and about the same number rolled over at 2 mos, for a total of 30% of babies rolling over from front to back at or before 2 mos. So no, it is not that unusual even today.

 

Then again, your original question was about rolling from back to front, which usually happens later. My kid, however, rolled from back to front first. She was in an odd situation, though (fostered in a developing country during infancy). She also preferred to sleep on her back. (She also has learning problems . . . not saying they are related . . . .)

Edited October 23, 2011 by SKL

[Murphy101]

I just found an online poll that said about 15% of babies rolled over before 2 mos (maybe many of the ones who haven't adopted B2S?) and about the same number rolled over at 2 mos, for a total of 30% of babies rolling over from front to back at or before 2 mos. So no, it is not that unusual even today.

 

Then again, your original question was about rolling from back to front, which usually happens later. My kid, however, rolled from back to front first. She was in an odd situation, though (fostered in a developing country during infancy). She also preferred to sleep on her back. (She also has learning problems . . . not saying they are related . . . .)

 

Oh my. I lay mine tummy down but they always roll back to front first.

They dig a heel in and flop over to their tummy. They always do that before getting managing to coordinate getting an arm out of the way so they can flip onto their back.

oh well. No surprise kids of mine would be weird.:D

[Renee in NC]

Oh my. I lay mine tummy down but they always roll back to front first.

They dig a heel in and flop over to their tummy. They always do that before getting managing to coordinate getting an arm out of the way so they can flip onto their back.

oh well. No surprise kids of mine would be weird.:D

 

Obviously my early roller rolled from back to tummy because the 3 week old was on her back on the bed when she rolled off.:D

[AngelBee]

We ditched the crib altogether.

Now we wonder why we ever bought one to begin with.

Big waste of money.

 

:iagree: