Neighbor is encroaching upon my parenting, etc (semi-long)

[kalanamak]

 

I think reading a child's journal is nearly always a mistake.

 

What if you wondered if they ran away to meet a man, have had a change in personality because of drugs, or are contemplating suicide?

[Catwoman]

What concerns me is that the neighbour *hasn't* come to you.

 

If a child is confiding unhappiness to me, I'd find a quiet way to try and meet with the parent...a gentle 'heads up' so that the parent is aware of how their child is feeling/coping/etc.

 

As another adult, I think that you have a responsibility to the child AND parent to attempt to do so. Granted, some parents would just get defensive and unpleasant, but if a child is so unhappy that they're running away from home, etc, I would think that a reasonable adult would make the attempt.

 

I'm not saying that a parent is at fault, etc, but I would think letting them know what their kid is saying/feeling would be the responsible thing to do, so that they have a fuller picture of the situation and are better equipped to help the child deal with whatever is going on.

 

 

I'm concerned about that, too. This woman appears to be taking the word of a 12 year-old as the Gospel Truth. I don't care how convincing Sheryl's dd may be; the woman should have approached Sheryl with her concerns, rather than agreeing with the dd and possibly encouraging her to say disrespectful things about her mom.

[Catwoman]

I think reading a child's journal is nearly always a mistake.

 

I agree that, in most cases, it is a mistake, but I'm not so sure it's a mistake this time, and I don't get the impression that it was something Sheryl regularly did, until things got really bad with her dd and she felt she didn't have any other way of knowing what was really going on with her.

[Joanne]

I really encourage the OP to get some wise help on coping with daughter. You'll have to be strong to cope effectively with this already pedal-to-the-metal daughter. I know of one, very well, who was lovely by 19, but 12-17 was a nightmare. She's now a very dutiful daughter, mother, and grandmother. So, have hope.

 

The run away thread mentions seeing a psychologist and this one mentions a counselor.

[RanchGirl]

.

Edited October 15, 2011 by RanchGirl

[kalanamak]

The run away thread mentions seeing a psychologist and this one mentions a counselor.

 

I thought that was for the daughter, and she met with this person to get them up to date. I was thinking she might benefit for some direct help with her own thoughts and parenting, that's all.

[Catwoman]

Neighbor is not interested in helping Sheryl parent, she is looking for a BFF relationship with a pre-teen girl. This icks me out in a big way.

 

If we replaced "kindly neighbor lady" with "kindly neighbor gentleman," I'll bet a lot more of us would be telling Sheryl to pay attention to her Mama Bear Instincts. Just because it's a woman doesn't necessarily indicate that she means well or has the best of intentions toward Sheryl's dd.

 

I'm not saying the woman is some kind of nut, but Sheryl has a bad feeling about her, and that's enough for me. It's not like we're talking about the girl's grandmother or aunt; this is just a neighbor, and not even a longtime family friend or anything like that.

[Parker Martin]

I think reading a child's journal is nearly always a mistake.

 

I think that if your twelve year old runs away from home, not reading the child's journal at that point is nearly always a mistake.

 

I would be horrified if my daughter cuddled up, emotionally, to an adult who didn't correct this kind of misbehavior. As I said before, I think it makes her vulnerable to a male doing this for worse reasons.

 

:iagree: And I'll reiterate that sensible adults know how to be a child's confidant without undermining the child's parents.

 

If we replaced "kindly neighbor lady" with "kindly neighbor gentleman," I'll bet a lot more of us would be telling Sheryl to pay attention to her Mama Bear Instincts.

 

No kidding.

[Janie Grace]

 

I missed the above -- that Sheryl had already gone to the neighbor and neighbor wasn't interested in being a "team" w/ S. If that's the case, I agree -- not good.

 

OP, can you and dd go away for a while? Plan a fun mother-daugther trip? Share some laughs, make some memories? It seems like you are constantly finding yourself in the role of enforcer and rarely in the role of friend/confidant (a role neighbor is filling). I think it would be wonderful if you and dd could escape that setting (including the neighbor and all your and her home responsibilities, chores, etc.) and just kick back together. I'm no expert, but I think that could do a world of good.

[8circles]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not really seeing a lot of drama from Sheryl (and I know you didn't mean it in a harsh way, momoflaw; yours was just the most recent post about it.) She hasn't gone over to the neighbor's house with a weapon and threatened her life; she hasn't even been particularly confrontational with the woman.

 

I think the only point of disagreement we have is I hear a lot of Sheryl almost taking it personally. I very well may be wrong - I'm on my phone so its difficult to go back & quote but that's what I heard in her posts. I think this problem with the neighbor is quite concerning which is why it can't be about Sheryl's feelings being hurt. Its much bigger than that. If Im wrong then Im glad. That's just how it reads to me.

[LibraryLover]

I am still on the first page. Are we saying it's wrong for teens to have adults in their lives whom they trust, but who are not their parents?

 

Did no one here ever have a *safe* and thoughtful adult/mentor (beyond mom and dad) from whom they might have sought counsel and kindness?

Edited October 14, 2011 by LibraryLover

[8circles]

I am still on the first page. Are we saying it's wrong for teens to have adults in their lives whom they trust who are not their parents?

 

Did no one here ever have a wonderful, loving, *safe* adult with whom they might seek counsel and kindness?

 

No. I don't think anyone has said that.

Edited October 14, 2011 by momoflaw

[littleWMN]

Okay, I read this thread and the run away thread. My oldest is only 10 so I'm no parenting expert. :tongue_smilie:

 

I noticed that on this thread that you mentioned that you don't know if the neighbor had anything to do with her running away. In the run away thread, you had a lot of thoughts about what if the neighbor mentioned to your daughter that her own daughter ran away before? Is this something you just thought might have happened? I'm just gently wondering if you might be projecting some of your feelings onto the neighbor lady?

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for parental instincts (especially maternal!) and for healthy boundaries. I think if you think you need to cut off all ties with her, then that is what you need to do. I'd just not make it an emotional leap and cut all ties without thinking it through. That may very well put more distance between your daughter and yourself.

 

If it were me (and it's not :D), I'd for SURE tell the lady NO MORE EMAILS! I'd also not let my daughter go over there anymore (and I may or may not tell my daughter that outright). I like another poster's idea of inviting the lady over to your house, with a pet, to be on your territory. From a bonding perspective, I think this is a great idea... it let's YOU be the "good guy". You aren't cutting her off from a "friend" and everything is still in your control.

 

Again, you know more information than the rest of us. You'll have to make an informed decision based on that - perhaps with input from the counselor. I wouldn't hesitate to cut off someone that was coming in between our family relationships. Only you can decide if that is what is happening here, IMO.

 

Good luck. 12 is a hard age for everyone. :grouphug:

[5kidsforME]

I am still on the first page. Are we saying it's wrong for teens to have adults in their lives whom they trust who are not their parents?

 

Did know one here ever have a wonderful loving *safe* adult with whom they might seek counsel and kindness?

 

 

 

Who said any of the above? :001_huh:

 

The op is saying the neighbor is not a *safe* person?

Edited October 14, 2011 by Momto4kids

[Shellydon]

My responses? Such as? Oh, me wanting to protect my dd? Or, my loving her sooooo much that I'M WORKING on restoration now.....what exactly?

 

My dd has issues with not only me though. So, does that change your answer? She has issues with her dad. My dh works outside the home and I'm with her more so of course there will be more issues with me.

 

Anyway, this is NOT typical behavior. It's one thing to say a word, do a bad deed every once in a blue moon. My dd exhibits these behaviors more than once in a while. A little bad remark is quite different from other remarks that are quite serious. Truly, and I hope this doesn't offend you, but you really do not have good perception stating what you did.

 

While I may be a first time older Mom, I am very experienced with children of all ages and have not seen this in my almost 35 year old niece, 30 yo nephew and the list goes on. I don't know how old your children are, but please/kindly refrain from telling me I do not have a grasp of 12 yo.

 

Wow, that was a direct hit and so unfounded. Sorry you feel that way.

 

I am trying to gently say that you seem to have some control issues. Why is your daughter in therapy in the first place? What made you make the decision that she needed to go? I do think that your neighbor is overstepping her bounds, but I think your reaction is out of proportion for the offense. Yes, limit emails and monitor contact, but don't take the fact that your DD doesn't speak sweetly of you all the time as a major blow to your self image. What I am saying is that it is normal for children to dislike their parents at times, often a lot of the time. The more we try to clamp down and force 'happy' feelings and actions, the more estranged and distant they become.

[Shellydon]

That was unkind. You pretty much just said "no wonder your daughter is acting this way, you're completely unreasonable and deserve it." I don't know if you meant it to come across that way, but it did. Remember that you are dealing with a hurting, scared mom who just wants to do what's best for her child. "Typical" in your world/experience doesn't mean the OP shouldn't be concerned or try to make something better. Most of us aren't shooting for "typical."

 

 

That isn't what I said at all.

[LibraryLover]

No. I don't think anyone has said that.

 

 

I tidied up my grammar, so maybe requote me. lol

[8circles]

I tidied up my grammar, so maybe requote me. lol

 

Lol. Ok. :)

[Catwoman]

I think the only point of disagreement we have is I hear a lot of Sheryl almost taking it personally. I very well may be wrong - I'm on my phone so its difficult to go back & quote but that's what I heard in her posts. I think this problem with the neighbor is quite concerning which is why it can't be about Sheryl's feelings being hurt. Its much bigger than that. If Im wrong then Im glad. That's just how it reads to me.

 

You could very well be right, too -- it's so hard to interpret feelings and intentions when you're not sitting across a table from someone. (And even then, I have been known to be entirely wrong!)

[Guest submarines]

I think the only point of disagreement we have is I hear a lot of Sheryl almost taking it personally. I very well may be wrong - I'm on my phone so its difficult to go back & quote but that's what I heard in her posts. I think this problem with the neighbor is quite concerning which is why it can't be about Sheryl's feelings being hurt. Its much bigger than that. If Im wrong then Im glad. That's just how it reads to me.

 

This is how I'm reading it as well, and I fully admit that I could be wrong, and I'd rather be wrong.

 

However, when a parent states that their goal is to 'train' their pre-teen, and that pre-teen thinks that the parent is too strict / controlling, my heart automatically and instinctually goes to the pre-teen, in the absence of any other details.

[sheryl]

I really do not have time to sit and respond to each email individually now. This thread consumed my day and yep, you guessed it, time away from my dd who was downstairs while I was answering these emails.

 

Joanne, you and I couldn't be more different so thanks, but no thanks.

The counselor and psychologist are the same. Again, I'm glad you have gone back to school, but please don't text book everything...it's not always that easy. Many times it is, but not always.

 

It boils down to me, an adult 50+ yo Mom having a check within me. I'm not jealous. No, I have not misinterpreted anything. Maybe she does have "ok" intentions, BUT, when you add up these factors, I feel uncomfortable with her.

 

No matter HOW YOU personally cut it...I was discredited. This does NOT mean my feelings got hurt. Feelings? HUH? If anything, a few of you (and you know who you are so I don't need to bash you) said hurtful things to me in your reply to my thread. THAT hurt my "feelings". No, I'm NOT MAD at S. I was in the beginning when I went over, BUT.....please read this...y'all are NOT reading/understanding what I'm writing....I was controlled. We sat in HER house for about an hour and sipping water. My dd was not present.

 

It boils down to....I feel enough of an uncomfortable feeling/observation that I am acting on it. It's simply that simple.....:tongue_smilie:

 

My daughter is really a sweet girl, but one who has been influenced in some way by someone and/or something. She is a handful, but truly a blessing. I know that GOD expects my dh and I to parent her the best we know how.

 

To one of the pp's....I do not believe parents should be "friends" with their children WHEN THEY ARE YOUNG. That is strictly a parent/child relationship. As the child matures or buds into young adulthood then yes, the parent is STILL the parent, but now a friend as well to the child.

 

"hype or drama" (which ever word was used). No, you don't know me from Adam. No, it's called parenting. In fact, I thought there was a possibility I was over-reacting. This thread proved me wrong. It validated me. The counselor validated me and is concerned with the situation. She suggested trying the "invite her over to my house" scenario. I still may do this, but frankly will pray if I should or not.

 

"controlling"...yes, you bet I'm going to control my dd. Are you not? Do you kids have total freedom? As my dd matures she earns more and more freedoms. She needs to prove herself to responsible. Granting freedoms really is dependent on the emotional maturity of a child too. She does need to be age-appropriate independent and enjoy freedoms. But, it is determined by what I mentioned above. So, from another perspective I don't call it controlling, but again..........parenting. You don't parent an 17 year old as you would a 12 yo.

 

Thanks to all who replied. Once again, most of you have validated what I suspected.

 

Lastly, I call myself a believer of Jesus Christ and I hope the presentation of my thread and the concerns spoken were not a bad witness to my LORD! I will publicly say now that IF I've done that, I do so apologize. I started a thread regarding a neighbor which was troubling for me to even post. It's important to know that I love her "as a neighbor", but one can love someone and not like/agree with their actions.

 

I'm finished responding. If you unsure of what I said, I would encourage you to READ ALL of what I wrote b/c some of my text has been misinterpreted....yes, easy to do.

 

In closing, I'll say it again. Hopefully this thread has helped someone else out.

[Joanne]

I really do not have time to sit and respond to each email individually now. This thread consumed my day and yep, you guessed it, time away from my dd who was downstairs while I was answering these emails.

 

Joanne, you and I couldn't be more different so thanks, but no thanks.

The counselor and psychologist are the same. Again, I'm glad you have gone back to school, but please don't text book everything...it's not always that easy. Many times it is, but not always.

 

 

.

 

You can stop insulting me now. Or, at minimum, you can stop reacting to content I did not post, imply, intend, or infer. My few posts to you in this thread and the ONE in the run away thread have been appropriate, polite, and offered feedback based on the fact that you posted on a forum for help.

 

There is nothing "pop psychology" or "textbook" about my posts to you. I merely suggested that trying hard to get your 12 year old to agree with how you view your parenting is not the best use of your time.

 

You've done nothing but react to words I did not post; we are not even having a shared conversation.

[jelbe5]

:grouphug:

 

Just wanted to say I hope your relationship with your dd improves . . . I think you have every right to be very concerned about this relationship between your dd and this individual. I think you have received some good advice here, but there is hard work ahead. I pray for your strength and resolve and for your relationship with your dd to improve. :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

It boils down to....I feel enough of an uncomfortable feeling/observation that I am acting on it. It's simply that simple.....:tongue_smilie:

 

 

I think that is an entirely valid reason for cutting off the contact between your dd and your neighbor. I am a big believer in listening to that "little voice," because every time I don't, I end up wishing I had.

 

Ultimately, you know what is best for your family, and I know you will do whatever it takes to work things out with your dd.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[8circles]

I really do not have time to sit and respond to each email individually now. This thread consumed my day and yep, you guessed it, time away from my dd who was downstairs while I was answering these emails.

 

Joanne, you and I couldn't be more different so thanks, but no thanks.

The counselor and psychologist are the same. Again, I'm glad you have gone back to school, but please don't text book everything...it's not always that easy. Many times it is, but not always.

 

It boils down to me, an adult 50+ yo Mom having a check within me. I'm not jealous. No, I have not misinterpreted anything. Maybe she does have "ok" intentions, BUT, when you add up these factors, I feel uncomfortable with her.

 

No matter HOW YOU personally cut it...I was discredited. This does NOT mean my feelings got hurt. Feelings? HUH? If anything, a few of you (and you know who you are so I don't need to bash you) said hurtful things to me in your reply to my thread. THAT hurt my "feelings". No, I'm NOT MAD at S. I was in the beginning when I went over, BUT.....please read this...y'all are NOT reading/understanding what I'm writing....I was controlled. We sat in HER house for about an hour and sipping water. My dd was not present.

 

It boils down to....I feel enough of an uncomfortable feeling/observation that I am acting on it. It's simply that simple.....:tongue_smilie:

 

My daughter is really a sweet girl, but one who has been influenced in some way by someone and/or something. She is a handful, but truly a blessing. I know that GOD expects my dh and I to parent her the best we know how.

 

To one of the pp's....I do not believe parents should be "friends" with their children WHEN THEY ARE YOUNG. That is strictly a parent/child relationship. As the child matures or buds into young adulthood then yes, the parent is STILL the parent, but now a friend as well to the child.

 

"hype or drama" (which ever word was used). No, you don't know me from Adam. No, it's called parenting. In fact, I thought there was a possibility I was over-reacting. This thread proved me wrong. It validated me. The counselor validated me and is concerned with the situation. She suggested trying the "invite her over to my house" scenario. I still may do this, but frankly will pray if I should or not.

 

"controlling"...yes, you bet I'm going to control my dd. Are you not? Do you kids have total freedom? As my dd matures she earns more and more freedoms. She needs to prove herself to responsible. Granting freedoms really is dependent on the emotional maturity of a child too. She does need to be age-appropriate independent and enjoy freedoms. But, it is determined by what I mentioned above. So, from another perspective I don't call it controlling, but again..........parenting. You don't parent an 17 year old as you would a 12 yo.

 

Thanks to all who replied. Once again, most of you have validated what I suspected.

 

Lastly, I call myself a believer of Jesus Christ and I hope the presentation of my thread and the concerns spoken were not a bad witness to my LORD! I will publicly say now that IF I've done that, I do so apologize. I started a thread regarding a neighbor which was troubling for me to even post. It's important to know that I love her "as a neighbor", but one can love someone and not like/agree with their actions.

 

I'm finished responding. If you unsure of what I said, I would encourage you to READ ALL of what I wrote b/c some of my text has been misinterpreted....yes, easy to do.

 

In closing, I'll say it again. Hopefully this thread has helped someone else out.

 

Well, I used the word drama. I stand by it. It isn't meant to be mean. But I still think you're focusing on the wrong thing. Do what you need to do with the neighbor - I support & encourage that. But this isn't about you & how you've been discredited, disrespected, undermined, etc. It isn't even about you at all. Its about your relationship with your daughter & what's going on with her.

 

Im not saying this to be rude. You're right that I don't know you from Adam. But I do know drama & there's a lot of it in your posts.

[Janie Grace]

Well, I used the word drama. I stand by it. It isn't meant to be mean. But I still think you're focusing on the wrong thing. Do what you need to do with the neighbor - I support & encourage that. But this isn't about you & how you've been discredited, disrespected, undermined, etc. It isn't even about you at all. Its about your relationship with your daughter & what's going on with her.

 

Im not saying this to be rude. You're right that I don't know you from Adam. But I do know drama & there's a lot of it in your posts.

 

:iagree:

I'm the one who posted about friendship. I am very sad that you do not think friendship is part of motherhood. I am not talking about being a peer to your dd, I am talking about enjoying her, making memories with her, having fun. I am sympathetic to your situation but I really think you need to be open to those who are trying to say that the heart of it lies in your relationship with your dd. She desperately needs to know that you like her, that you want to be with her. I think you can cut out every negative influence in the world and if your daughter doesn't sense your unconditional acceptance of her, it won't make a bit of difference. That's all I meant. I'm praying for you and your dd.

[RanchGirl]

.

Edited October 15, 2011 by RanchGirl

[nowimscrappin]

Personally, I didn't have a great relationship with my mother growing up - we were exactly like. But, I did have a number of great relationships with other adults in my life at the time. That's how I got through my teenage hood.

 

I'm sorry that you feel she undermined you, and that she should have come to you. Unfortunately, what I feel is that she was respecting your daughter needing to have a safe place to fall and trust. Your daughter doesn't feel like she gets that at home, for whatever reason, and sought it somewhere else. You can try to direct her to the adult that "you" think is appropriate all you want, but she is going to form relationships with people she feels like she can trust.

 

I definitely also think that many kids are going to hate their parents at this age, and having another adult "validating" those feelings doesn't undermine you. Our feelings are ours, valid or not, and as humans, we need people who acknowledge that we have those feelings. She's not getting that acknowledgement of those feelings from you - she's getting them from the neighbor. I do think maybe a more "controlled" relationship might be in order, but restricting access to this neighbor is just going to make your daughter more defiant, not more open to building a relationship with you.

[momma aimee]

What concerns me is that the neighbour *hasn't* come to you.

 

If a child is confiding unhappiness to me, I'd find a quiet way to try and meet with the parent...a gentle 'heads up' so that the parent is aware of how their child is feeling/coping/etc.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

I have several friends that have almost teen or teen girls and while I admit i do not "repeat conversations verbatim" to the moms I am careful to respect the parents and not get in the middle and share concerns with the mom if the DD bring something to me.

 

But, also I have a strong relationship with these families, the mothers even more than the children -- I am not a 3rd party that is not connected to the parents at all as is the 'lady next door'.

 

OP -- HUGS

[bzymom]

I don't think you are over-reacting. You are upset and I would be as well. I would, though, hope you can remove some of the emotional response before dealing further with your d/d or the neighbor, since calm is just going to be more productive.

 

She is 12. I have a 13 yr old d/d. If one of my adult neighbors made me feel uncomfortable about their interest in/relationship with my daughter, it would be over. I would tell the neighbor very clearly that I did not want her in further contact with my child unless I was present, and there would be no phone or email contact. If d/d disobeyed, she would not be able to turn around to breathe without my being right there. And I have raised teens, so I know how challenging it can be. Some are easy breezy (or so I hear :001_huh:), but most require lots of attention and boundaries.

 

It doesn't matter to me what your rules are, or if she feels you are too strict. Those are matters you may need to look at privately within your family, and with your counselor.

 

Good luck, and I hope your d/d gets back on track soon.

[momma aimee]

I am still on the first page. Are we saying it's wrong for teens to have adults in their lives whom they trust, but who are not their parents?

 

Did no one here ever have a *safe* and thoughtful adult/mentor (beyond mom and dad) from whom they might have sought counsel and kindness?

 

yes many, but not any that actively "vent behind mom's back" to contact me, or to agree with me. None that tired to have a relationship with me to the exclusion of my parents.

[sheryl]

You can stop insulting me now. Or, at minimum, you can stop reacting to content I did not post, imply, intend, or infer. My few posts to you in this thread and the ONE in the run away thread have been appropriate, polite, and offered feedback based on the fact that you posted on a forum for help.

 

There is nothing "pop psychology" or "textbook" about my posts to you. I merely suggested that trying hard to get your 12 year old to agree with how you view your parenting is not the best use of your time.

 

You've done nothing but react to words I did not post; we are not even having a shared conversation.

 

 

Blessings to you

[sheryl]

Drama? Nope, sorry not going to find it from me b/c that would serve no purpose. But, I'm still asking what words are dramatic? What I wrote was sincere.

 

Emotional? Yes, and I'm glad I got 'em. ;) I wouldn't want to "assume" all is well and not have an internal check if something is awry.

 

Now, some of you are still making assumptions and twisting what I said. Not all of you.

 

Bottom line is I have an uncomfortable feeling and I'm acting on it. You can have your opinion but you're not in this situation. For the few who dissent I pray that if you ever have a similar situation that you would look at all angles as I'm doing and not assume. Problems may be obvious or obscure.

 

Oh, and for those who have said get to know my dd and like her again....that my dd may know that (or something like that). That's shameful. Truly. I like and love my dd. I may not "like" SOME of her ACTIONS, but my dd the person I like and love.

 

My daughter is actually a great girl with a bad neighborly influence. No, it's not b/c she's lacking at home. If anything, b/c she's an only child, my dh and I may have made the mistake of spoiling her. She does have behavioral issues as a result of her controlled epilepsy, and that IS the challenging part.

 

What I submitted were rock bottom worst case examples. MANY times she tells me she LOVES me and I'm the best Mom in the world. She's CONSTANTLY sending me little love notes and pictures on paper.

 

Again, be careful with assumptions regarding others.

[Jan in SC]

I think you have misunderstood what Joanne said, or perhaps confused her posts with someone else.

 

I'm sorry that you are having continued difficulty with your daughter. It sounds like you have put in place some guards to protect her and have professionals on your side. I agree that your neighbor, based on your information, sounds at best like a pain and at worst, possibly dangerous. I'm glad you discovered her actions before something disastrous could occur.

 

I do not, however, think you responded, to a polite and well meaning person, who took the time to offer you solicited help, with much grace. I would imagine that while you might disagree with her responses, you will admit that she is entitled to them and deserves to be respected for those ideas, as do others that disagree. I have seen you as a kind and compassionate person here, so I was startled enough by your response to feel the need to post.

[RanchGirl]

I'm deleting my prior messages on this thread. Normally I don't get upset about things said on this board but to share my personal painful experiences with truly kind intentions of helping... then be informed it's "shameful". That hurt.

[8circles]

I'm deleting my prior messages on this thread. Normally I don't get upset about things said on this board but to share my personal painful experiences with truly kind intentions of helping... then be informed it's "shameful". That hurt.

 

:grouphug:

[Guest submarines]

I'm deleting my prior messages on this thread. Normally I don't get upset about things said on this board but to share my personal painful experiences with truly kind intentions of helping... then be informed it's "shameful". That hurt.

 

:grouphug: Don't let those comments affect you.