Diversity/Multiculturalism just doesn't always WORK

[Heather in Neverland]

:rant: This island is 30% malay (muslim), 30% indian (hindu/christian), 30% chinese (buddhist/christian) and 10% expats (christian/other).

 

Our staff is about 50% expats and 50% national staff (meaning local hires).

 

I just left a meeting where we are trying to clear up various policies regarding holidays, leave days, etc. It is IMPOSSIBLE to create one that everyone can agree with.

 

Each cultural group wants all of their holidays honored. ALL of them. If we do that we will never be in school! Then there was this huge discussion over whether or not an indian who is christian and not hindu should be allowed to take off for deepavali which is a hindu religious celebration.

 

That lead to a big angry discussion of which holidays are religious and which are cultural and who should be allowed to take off for which ones. blah blah blah... I felt like my head was going to explode.

 

In order to accomodate all the various holidays in the december/january time frame this year, we ended up with 6 WEEKS of time off which made us start earlier and go later to get our days in.

 

One of my favorite ones is my son's piano teacher canceling his lesson because it was hari raya (a muslim holiday)... he is chinese and christian. :glare:

 

But honestly, it is no wonder that people choose to stick with their "people"... people that look like them and act like them and value the same things they value, etc. Because when we try to mesh all our own cultures into one bowl we don't end up with a "melting pot" or a "mixed salad"... more like a recipe that doesn't taste right to anyone.

 

We all try to respect each other's cultures here but the truth is we all prefer our own and will fight for it if necessary. Sometimes I wonder if "diversity" and "multiculturalism" is something people SAY they want ...they SAY it is a great thing... but they don't really mean it.

 

OK rant over.

[Veritaserum]

Well, moderation is helpful. If each group got to pick 3-5 most important days, that wouldn't be unfeasible. Likewise, multiculturalism the way I've experienced works that way. You don't celebrate everything because you can't. You celebrate the big ones. If I had to pick my top three cultural and religious holidays, I'd choose Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

 

I'm sorry your group is tough to work with. That sounds really frustrating. :grouphug:

[eternalknot]

 

One of my favorite ones is my son's piano teacher canceling his lesson because it was hari raya (a muslim holiday)... he is chinese and christian.

 

I don't know, I've always taken off holidays that affected the general majority even when they weren't directly applicable to me. Thanksgiving and Christmas, for instance. If the holiday affected many of the teacher's students I can understand canceling all lessons for the day ::shrug::. I'm not American but I gave my kids today off for Columbus Day because we live in the States and the other schools were doing it.

 

Well, moderation is helpful. If each group got to pick 3-5 most important days, that wouldn't be unfeasible. Likewise, multiculturalism the way I've experienced works that way. You don't celebrate everything because you can't. You celebrate the big ones. If I had to pick my top three cultural and religious holidays, I'd choose Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

 

I'm sorry your group is tough to work with. That sounds really frustrating. :grouphug:

 

Good post, great suggestions!

 

And like her, I'm sorry it was such a frustrating meeting today.

[Serenade]

 

We all try to respect each other's cultures here but the truth is we all prefer our own and will fight for it if necessary. Sometimes I wonder if "diversity" and "multiculturalism" is something people SAY they want ...they SAY it is a great thing... but they don't really mean it.

 

 

 

It's hard to put into practice. I think if we can get to mutual respect, then it's maybe not so bad to want to be around "our kind" -- the people who understand us and know where we are coming from, as long as we respect that other people do things differently. Putting this into practice, however, is hard indeed.

[IsabelC]

Tricky situation.

 

And this is a good question:

 

Sometimes I wonder if "diversity" and "multiculturalism" is something people SAY they want ...they SAY it is a great thing... but they don't really mean it.

I suspect it's really a matter of swings and roundabouts. You could live in a closed community where everyone acts and thinks exactly like you do. You'd feel more settled and secure, your ideas wouldn't be threatened, and you could be confident that your morals will be upheld by your society. Or you could go out and discover where everyone else is at (as you're doing now). It's not as easy or comfortable, but there's a lot to learn and enjoy as well as challenges to overcome.

 

(Personally, I'd like to pick and choose the bits of multiculturalism I want. Yes to world music, ethnic food and discovering the richness other cultures. No to ethnic/religious wars, misogyny and human rights violations.)

[mommaduck]

I don't know, I've always taken off holidays that affected the general majority even when they weren't directly applicable to me. Thanksgiving and Christmas, for instance. If the holiday affected many of the teacher's students I can understand canceling all lessons for the day ::shrug::. I'm not American but I gave my kids today off for Columbus Day because we live in the States and the other schools were doing it.

 

 

 

Good post, great suggestions!

 

And like her, I'm sorry it was such a frustrating meeting today.

I confess, I gave my kids the day off also...but we still call it American Genocide day.

[EmilyK]

 

(Personally, I'd like to pick and choose the bits of multiculturalism I want. Yes to world music, ethnic food and discovering the richness other cultures. No to ethnic/religious wars, misogyny and human rights violations.)

 

 

I just love this. Me too.

[justasque]

Sometimes, the good part is not so much the result, as it is the fact that you're all sitting around the table trying to find a solution that works for all of you. It's a difficult process, no doubt, but having gone through it you end up with so much more than just a school calendar at the end of it.

[mazakaal]

Your employees really just need to learn to be more flexible. Your expats need to realize that they're in a different country and need to adjust. I'm sure if they were working in America, they would be a bit frustrated if their foreign co-workers insisted on taking off all their own national holidays. I can see taking off for Christmas and Easter because those are big ones, but they have chosen to live in a foreign country. They need to adjust. If I were making the school schedule, I would schedule off for all the national holidays of Malaysia, and throw in Christmas and Easter out of good will. Thanksgiving can be done on the Saturday after the actual holiday if someone wants to. Fourth of July can be a barbeque in the evening after work. And the rest are all just gravy. The same would go for all the other expats from other countries. Let them pick their 'big 2' and that's it.

[ondreeuh]

It definitely isn't easy, and I agree that it's something people want more in theory than in practice.

 

I'm struggling a bit where we've ended up. I don't want my kids to assimilate too much, and I feel sort of bad about it (but not really).

[Amber in AUS]

Does the Malay govt not have a set of holidays that the nation must observe? Here we do and if you want extras then you take annual leave.

[Heather in Neverland]

Does the Malay govt not have a set of holidays that the nation must observe? Here we do and if you want extras then you take annual leave.

 

Yes they do. A LOT OF THEM.

 

So we take a multitude of official malaysian holidays... some are religious in nature some are not.

 

And we take only one day for thanksgiving. Christmas, New Year and Chinese New year sometimes get rolled together and are sometimes separate depending on when and chinese new year lasts for two weeks, and we take Easter. Then there is all the indian holidays.

 

I enjoy being a part of all the celebrations but we cannot feasibly take everyone of them off and everyone thinks THEIR holidays are the MOST important and won't budge.

 

I guess I just wish that "diversity" included a little more compromise. :confused: Instead it is more like "we all live near each other and work at the same place but that's as far as it goes for integration."

[Rosie_0801]

How many of these terribly necessary holidays could be half days at school instead of full days off?

 

Rosie

[Deb in NZ]

When we lived in Fiji, I remember my dh coming home very frustrated one day. I guess the Muslim workers told him they wouldn't be in the next day due to a holy day. The Hindu workers were not working as well due to a Hindu holy day. The last draw was when his foreman, a Rotuman who spoke 5+ languages & was his main translater, told him he wouldn't be in as well. Dh didn't appreciate it when I laughed & told him it was Ash Wednesday (or Maundy Thursday, I forget which) & that his foreman would most likely be going to church. :lol: Needless to say, even though dh is used to working with people of many different cultures, that day he was very frustrated.

 

As far as what should be considered school holidays...I would use the PS calendar as a starting point. What are the # days you are required to be in school? Are students in your area used to having long summer holidays or is school more year-long with many days off during the year? Why do you have Thanksgiving off??? I have worked overseas & never heard of Thanksgiving being a day off unless you worked for American gov't (i.e. DoD schools, embassies, etc.) I have always celebrated Thanksgiving on the saturday after Thanksgiving with my family. If we lived in the US I wouldn't expect to have Waitangi Day or ANZAC Day off, so why do ex-pat Americans get Thanksgiving off? Easter is on a sunday, so why is that even an issue?

 

When an ex-pat goes overseas they need to realize that they will not get days off work to celebrate their holidays from home (religious or cultural). Now as to locals working at the school...I would use what other private schools did as a basis for setting your school's year plan.

 

JMHO,

[Cammie]

I agree...the expats cannot really expect to get holidays like American Thanksgiving off when they are going to Malaysia to work.

 

Here in India we have the same issues but it seems to work. We get the major Muslim holidays (Id and Ramzan) and we get the major Hindu holidays (Navaratri, Diwali, etc) and we get Christmas (and helpfully Easter is always on a Sunday!) Then there are the national holidays - Gandhi's birthday, Independence Day, Republic Day.

 

Probably, to avoid major confrontations you go with the government recognized holidays and then give each employee and additional 3 day they can use as flex days?

 

- Cammie

[nono]

I just left a meeting where we are trying to clear up various policies regarding holidays, leave days, etc. It is IMPOSSIBLE to create one that everyone can agree with.

 

Sooo, this should be different than any other policy instituted at work? :lol::lol::lol:. (with you, not at you) I don't think this has as much to do with diversity of cultures as it does with simple human nature!

 

 

I worked in a small business for awhile. All from the same family, so pretty tight culture. NEVER was there 100% agreement with anything. Even holidays. :)

[Heather in Neverland]

When an ex-pat goes overseas they need to realize that they will not get days off work to celebrate their holidays from home (religious or cultural). Now as to locals working at the school...I would use what other private schools did as a basis for setting your school's year plan.

 

JMHO,

 

Well it is not quite that easy. This is an American school with about 300 American students and their American parents all of whom want THEIR holidays too and they are the "clients" so to speak.

 

So we are trying to juggle American, Malaysian, Indian, and Chinese holidays and still somehow teach these children. We are actually more accommodating than the other international schools but it never seems to be enough.

 

I guess I am just frustrated today.

[Deb in NZ]

In that case, see what days the American embassy / consulate gives off. Use that for a basis for what days to have off for holidays. I believe in the 3 countries I have lived in the American embassy / consulate has been closed on major American & national holidays. If your school is an American school that would be the most diplomatic way to choose holidays IMHO. It looks like the US embassy in Malaysia is closed 20 days for holidays. Some of those days are on sundays. Others would possible fall during normal mid-year or summer breaks. Some, like Labor Day, Columbus Day, etc., may not be important enough to have off, so wouldn't be issues. The US Embassy schedule would give you a starting point to build a resonable year's plan.

 

Remember the old saying "Try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one."

 

Best of luck ;)

Edited October 11, 2011 by Deb in NZ

[Cammie]

That is interesting. The international schools here in Bangalore (and there are quite a few) don't give foreign holidays off (no July 4th or Thanksgiving holidays). The major concession is that the summer breaks coincide with summer breaks in US schools (July,August) instead of when the rest of Indian schools get summer break (April, May). For the most part the international schools give much more limited holidays as far as I can tell. All the Indian schools just had about 2 weeks off for Dussera but the international schools only gave two days.

 

- Cammie

[bettyandbob]

I do not believe you can come up with a plan of who is permitted to observe what holidays without alienating everyone involved. There is no logic to something so personal.

 

My brother's firm used to observe all Federal Holidays and offer an addition few days of leaver per year. That did not work for a couple of reasons.

1. People who were not Christian had to take their own leave for their religious days (Christmas is a Federal Holiday).

2. The has international clients who do not follow US holidays.

 

So, the firm went to a plan that offered no Federal Holidays in the calendar. Everyone is given a set number of days they can take off. You have to get the days preapproved so everyone is not out of the office on the same day. If you want a 3 day weekend for George Washington's birthday, you use your own leave. If you want to observe Yom Kippur you use your own leave. If you use up your leave within a year you cannot take the day off. It's not a big firm, but there's never been a problem getting leave approved, except for persons who simply used up their leave early in the year without planning ahead.

 

I don't know how this would work in a school, but I'm sure it could be worked out. You just need to know people's days off ahead so classes can be covered and subs can be found if a sub is needed. I believe you school is a Christian school so it would make sense to have Christian Holidays, but then you could allow a set number of "personal" days that people put in for with 2-6 weeks notice depending on your needs. Additionally, you could stipulate that no more than "x" number could be taken at a time--so you don't have a teacher out of a classroom for several weeks at once. That way everyone has control over what days they have off and the school continues to runs appropriately.

 

ETA: when people put in for leave they also must have a plan for how their responsibilities will be covered. In your situation, what will happen in the classroom.

Edited October 11, 2011 by betty

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Well it is not quite that easy. This is an American school with about 300 American students and their American parents all of whom want THEIR holidays too and they are the "clients" so to speak.

 

So we are trying to juggle American, Malaysian, Indian, and Chinese holidays and still somehow teach these children. We are actually more accommodating than the other international schools but it never seems to be enough.

 

I guess I am just frustrated today.

 

Just as a FWIW, when we were stationed at an embassy, the embassy had the day off, but 2 out of 3 years, we were driving across the country in order to attend a big host nation event on the weekend. And the holiday season meant working more, attending and hosting a variety of official events. We didn't have time off until right before Christmas (as in one year our last official event was 23 December).

 

And this year, we attended early Easter service so that dh could drive directly to the airport and fly away to a meeting scheduled early Monday morning.

 

The embassy we were at did holidays US federal holidays and all host nation national holidays. However, there were not issues there of competing religious schedules.

 

Perhaps you could decide ahead of time how many weeks off total the school can support. Then pick the dates that you feel you owe to the students' families as normal for them as customers. Add in the local national holidays (what in the US would be called "Bank holidays") Then split the remaining days among the three groups and tell them to propose which dates (not already covered within the periods for step 1 or 2) are essential to them. Each group gets equal input to the last phase. Or maybe the two groups not covered by the national holidays get to split what is left.

 

And make it clear that of course, everyone won't get off everything they want.

 

But then I'm hard hearted, because even if it's a day off, in the military, you don't stop deployments or ship's movement or duty section responsibilities. I have worked Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter (service on the flight deck before helo ops started), etc.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I do not believe you can come up with a plan of who is permitted to observe what holidays without alienating everyone involved. There is no logic to something so personal.

 

My brother's firm used to observe all Federal Holidays and offer an addition few days of leaver per year. That did not work for a couple of reasons.

1. People who were not Christian had to take their own leave for their religious days (Christmas is a Federal Holiday).

2. The has international clients who do not follow US holidays.

 

So, the firm went to a plan that offered no Federal Holidays in the calendar. Everyone is given a set number of days they can take off. You have to get the days preapproved so everyone is not out of the office on the same day. If you want a 3 day weekend for George Washington's birthday, you use your own leave. If you want to observe Yom Kippur you use your own leave. If you use up your leave within a year you cannot take the day off. It's not a big firm, but there's never been a problem getting leave approved, except for persons who simply used up their leave early in the year without planning ahead.

 

I don't know how this would work in a school, but I'm sure it could be worked out. You just need to know people's days off ahead so classes can be covered and subs can be found if a sub is needed. I believe you school is a Christian school so it would make sense to have Christian Holidays, but then you could allow a set number of "personal" days that people put in for with 2-6 weeks notice depending on your needs. Additionally, you could stipulate that no more than "x" number could be taken at a time--so you don't have a teacher out of a classroom for several weeks at once. That way everyone has control over what days they have off and the school continues to runs appropriately.

 

ETA: when people put in for leave they also must have a plan for how their responsibilities will be covered. In your situation, what will happen in the classroom.

 

Well, I think part of the issue here is that the school is also trying to plan when the school break/vacation periods will be. So it's not only a matter of working with employee desires, but also with the expectations of the paying parents, who want to have their kids' time off during periods when they can take off from their jobs and observe their traditional holiday periods.

 

And some of the "feasts" involved are quite movable. Not just a week or two in either direction, but circulating through the year.

[mazakaal]

Well it is not quite that easy. This is an American school with about 300 American students and their American parents all of whom want THEIR holidays too and they are the "clients" so to speak.

 

So, do they want Memorial Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day, M. L. King Day? I can't believe those holidays would really be that important to them. I can see taking Thanksgiving off if it's an American school, and fortunately Independence Day in probably in your summer holiday. The other holidays just really aren't that big a deal imho. I mean, I loved Memorial Day growing up, but it's not like they're going to have parades and celebrations to go in Malaysia, so the holiday loses some of its significance and becomes just a day to have off work.

[Mrs Mungo]

But then I'm hard hearted, because even if it's a day off, in the military, you don't stop deployments or ship's movement or duty section responsibilities. I have worked Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter (service on the flight deck before helo ops started), etc.

 

Even when dh is off for certain holidays, the local schools are not necessarily off.

[Lady Florida.]

I wouldn't say multi culturalism doesn't always work...it seems like you're working in a school with a bunch of stubborn people-educators and parents alike.

Are the Americans wanting holidays such as Columbus, MLK, President's Day, etc? If so, that seems ridiculous to me. Does the school operate year round? How many days are needed by law, or does the law not apply to that school? Is this school fairly new? I think I'd invest some time in researching how other international schools deal with that.

 

To sum it up, diversity/multiculturalism works ----you just have to work at it!

 

I agree, especially with the parts I bolded. Even though it's an American school, the Americans chose to be in another country. If you served mostly the children of embassy personnel, I'd say taking off on U.S. holidays would make sense. Unless I'm mistaken though, those children don't make up your main student body. The parents really need to get over it.

[chiguirre]

I'd go with the Malaysian bank calendar (banks always close for every holiday, even those that other businesses might work) and then add in Christmas and Easter since it's a Christian school and Thanksgiving and the Fourth of July if there are more than about 40% American students or it's officially an American School, otherwise I'd skip those. I'd answer any staff comments with the suggestion to use their personal vacation time.

[misidawnrn]

I agree, a melting pot isn't always a good thing. A 7 course meal is a great thing when served as 7 courses...not true if you took all of the food and threw it in a blender!

I am not sure what to do with each specific holiday. I would say that the school could just stay in session everyday and the students could just be absent on the holidays pertaining to them. The staff could maybe get substitutes for the days they needed to be gone? Wow, I don't have a good fix.