WWS

[melmichigan]

For those who are further through this, my DD11 began with week 1 last week. She did pretty well until she got to the Challenge Exercise on Day 4, that did not make much sense. Would you backtrack to an earlier level of WWE for a period of time and if so what level? Or, since she did this independently would it be ok to go back and do the question listed and have her answer those to create a summary and continue to move forward in the book?

Edited September 11, 2011 by melmichigan

[lewelma]

My son had the same experience. It took him 2 hours to complete the challenge exercise. I decided to spend at least a month focusing on summarizing before continuing with WWS. He is VERY good with outlining nonfiction but really struggles with finding the narrative thread in fiction. So we are currently using WWE3 orally and doing a week a day (I am sure I could have used WWE4 but had the other for my younger son so was using that). I am requiring him to hold the 3 sentence summaries in his head and then tell me while I type them up (to speed the process). Then we are reading the 3 examples in the book and compare and contrast what he has written. I am not using the guiding questions or the dictations. He is already much better, and will be fine for WWS in a few more weeks.

 

In the past he has done 2 years of IEW (but not much on the story segment because he hates writing stories) and MCT Paragraph town (also no story side). So my child needed some time with stories before doing WWS independently.

 

Ruth in NZ

[TCB]

We started WWS a few weeks ago with dd11. She had a major meltdown over that assignment but after she calmed down managed to do it once I persuaded her to write a list of the events in order. She didn't want to bother with that step but was finding it too difficult to do without it. Anyway she got through it and has continued on and I think has really improved from that point on. Don't know if this helps but thought I'd add our experience with it.

[Amy in CO]

My son, 12, actually asked if he had to do it because it was called a "challenge" lesson, he saw it as "extra". I told him to do it. The first summary he turned in, he had missed the point and left so much info out that I couldn't follow the idea. I looked over his list of events, and noticed that he had not done that step correctly. He just wrote several down, not all of them and then condense them. When I pointed this out to him, and had him redo it, his second summary was much better.

 

I think for him, writing summaries from something shorter had become so easy, that he just tried to do it the same way for a longer section, and it didn't work. He needed to slow down, and read and follow the instructions given for a more detailed reading.

[Jen+4dc]

We started WWS a few weeks ago with dd11. She had a major meltdown over that assignment but after she calmed down managed to do it once I persuaded her to write a list of the events in order. She didn't want to bother with that step but was finding it too difficult to do without it. Anyway she got through it and has continued on and I think has really improved from that point on. Don't know if this helps but thought I'd add our experience with it.

:iagree:

My son, 12, actually asked if he had to do it because it was called a "challenge" lesson, he saw it as "extra". I told him to do it. The first summary he turned in, he had missed the point and left so much info out that I couldn't follow the idea. I looked over his list of events, and noticed that he had not done that step correctly. He just wrote several down, not all of them and then condense them. When I pointed this out to him, and had him redo it, his second summary was much better.

 

I think for him, writing summaries from something shorter had become so easy, that he just tried to do it the same way for a longer section, and it didn't work. He needed to slow down, and read and follow the instructions given for a more detailed reading.

:iagree:

This was our experience, too, with ds12. He skipped the step of writing down important events in chronological order. I made him go back and redo Day 4, making sure he focused on that step. The end result was much better.:D

 

Apparently, WWS will also be a good reminder to him of the importance of reading and following directions carefully. Never a bad lesson to remember.;)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I would say a great number of the problems my son has had with WWS are rooted in not reading and following the directions.

[Cosmos]

She did pretty well until she got to the Challenge Exercise on Day 4, that did not make much sense.

 

My son had the same experience. It took him 2 hours to complete the challenge exercise.

 

She had a major meltdown over that assignment but after she calmed down managed to do it once I persuaded her to write a list of the events in order.

 

Y'all are scaring me a little bit! We're going to hit this assignment tomorrow. Lord help me. :eek:

[wapiti]

Y'all are scaring me a little bit! We're going to hit this assignment tomorrow. Lord help me. :eek:

 

My dd hated that one too. Something about it was hard to follow (I only skimmed it :tongue_smilie:).

[wapiti]

I would say a great number of the problems my son has had with WWS are rooted in not reading and following the directions.

 

:iagree: I've been making dd read through the directions first (steps 2 and 3), before reading through a passage. But she learns backwards :tongue_smilie:

[Gailmegan]

My son is doing the challenge lesson right now. The first day he tried to skip the middle step and the result wasn't good, so I made him do it over. Now he is understanding the importance of following the directions. He has been working for about 40 minutes and is almost done the list of statements. I will let you know how his final summary turns out.

[melmichigan]

We tried to go back and do this assignment over, but the resentment for DD is to high to make it worthwhile. I pulled an assignment from The Complete Writer and has her narrate that for today. I'm not yet sure what the plan is for tomorrow.

[EKS]

I just did it with my son (it caused a meltdown here too). I don't pay attention to whether a resource is intended to be used independently or not.

[Create Your Ritual]

Some of them are meltdown inducing with the length, but I noticed that if I had dd10 work things on the board and I wrote them down it helped immensely. As an example, if I would write the phrases she would come up with on the board, then she had more fun with telling the story back to me aloud in consecutive order as I wrote. Then she would combine them as she liked based on what was on the board and write the final version in her book. That made it go more quickly and it didn't upset her at all. We are on Wk three and have been doing it like this with much greater success than when I had her doing it all herself.

 

This is not our main writing curriculum though (CC is) so I can't really take a lot of time anyway with teaching the skills, but she enjoys it this way and it gets done quickly. The bonus is that ds8 gets to listen and work with us and learns too.

[Gailmegan]

I was just looking at SWB's introduction in the teacher manual. She says (p 8) that the student may really struggle with a narration or two, and that's okay, but if it happens a few times over the course of the first 15 weeks that you should take time to practice more narrations from WWE.

 

I think if your dd did fine on the first three, I would forget about it and keep going in WWS. If she struggles a few more times, then I might want to review more.

[ELaurie]

I was just looking at SWB's introduction in the teacher manual. She says (p 8) that the student may really struggle with a narration or two, and that's okay, but if it happens a few times over the course of the first 15 weeks that you should take time to practice more narrations from WWE.

 

I think if your dd did fine on the first three, I would forget about it and keep going in WWS. If she struggles a few more times, then I might want to review more.

 

I agree - we're on week 4 here. Ds 11 is a struggling writer; the challenge activity in week one took him about 2 hours, and he spent 2 days on it, but since then he's been able to finish the assignments within about an hour.

[mom&nana]

Well, I wasn't sure how my dd was going to do on the Challenge Exercise, so I told her ahead of time "it is a CHALLENGE EXERCISE so you might have a bit of trouble with it, just try it and see how you do." Much to my surprise she did absolutely wonderful on it.

 

I would think that since it's considered a "Challenge" you could continue on with the program a little longer. You might want to take a few days from it since she's having resistance towards the program now. I think the next week will be easier, especially when you come to the one level outlines (can't remember which week that was now). My dd found those outlines easy peasy and it was a great confidence booster for my dd, so you may find it could do the same for your dd.

[melmichigan]

Well, I wasn't sure how my dd was going to do on the Challenge Exercise, so I told her ahead of time "it is a CHALLENGE EXERCISE so you might have a bit of trouble with it, just try it and see how you do." Much to my surprise she did absolutely wonderful on it.

 

I would think that since it's considered a "Challenge" you could continue on with the program a little longer. You might want to take a few days from it since she's having resistance towards the program now. I think the next week will be easier, especially when you come to the one level outlines (can't remember which week that was now). My dd found those outlines easy peasy and it was a great confidence booster for my dd, so you may find it could do the same for your dd.

 

Thanks everyone! I am going to have her move forward with week 2 in WWS and will continue to review narrations here and there with her. Her biggest resistance is redoing an assignment. She actually chose WWS over IEW because of the topic choices so hopefully that will be to my advantage.

[Mimm]

I would say a great number of the problems my son has had with WWS are rooted in not reading and following the directions.

 

:iagree: This! And I love it because it's a weakness of my daughter's that she wants to rush through something and not pay attention to everything she's supposed to be doing. She's learned over her first couple weeks that everything will be a lot simpler if she slows down and gets a clear idea of what she's supposed to do before diving in. :)

[redsquirrel]

My 11 year old son did the 'challenge' assignment today with no problem. He was very pleased that it called for no more than 8 sentences and he came in with 7.

 

We'll see how he does with future challenges. It might not always be go so smoothly.

[tuesdayschild]

Some of them are meltdown inducing with the length, but I noticed that if I had dd10 work things on the board and I wrote them down it helped immensely. As an example, if I would write the phrases she would come up with on the board, then she had more fun with telling the story back to me aloud in consecutive order as I wrote. Then she would combine them as she liked based on what was on the board and write the final version in her book. That made it go more quickly and it didn't upset her at all. We are on Wk three and have been doing it like this with much greater success than when I had her doing it all herself.

 

This is not our main writing curriculum though (CC is) so I can't really take a lot of time anyway with teaching the skills, but she enjoys it this way and it gets done quickly. The bonus is that ds8 gets to listen and work with us and learns too.

♥like♥

 

Taking notes (DS starts WWS in 2012 - once we've completed WWE)

[Deniseibase]

My DD had no problem with the challenge exercise, and I had also been expecting her to struggle with it. BUT, we had also had major meltdown on Day 1 because I made her re-do the ENTIRE assignment TWICE because she had not followed directions at ALL - she tried to turn in a five sentence summary, with no list of phrases. Turns out she hadn't done the phrases because she didn't want to, and she hadn't read the directions so she didn't know how long to make her summary! Then she tried to write two phrases and a one sentence summary. (She's got a lotta chutzpah, that kid!! :glare: ) Finally I made her read the directions out loud to me, and THEN she was able to do it correctly. By Day 4 when we hit the challenge exercise, she was already aware that deviating from the instructions would just mean more work for her!! :lol:

 

So, I agree that a lot of the key to success with WWS is following directions. We are starting Week 3 tomorrow, tho, and the outlining stuff last week went really well, she only had to re-do one outline, again, for thinking she could skip the directions. It's clearly a key skill for getting these right!

[abbeyej]

I'm sort of surprised. I haven't noticed dd having much difficulty transitioning from WWE to WWS. I do have her try to approach it on her own each time, but I don't hesitate to step in and direct her as necessary either.

 

...Perhaps it's just a matter of being more ready to refocus efforts, remind a child to read (and follow!) the directions, etc? So far no single lesson has seemed unduly long. (Granted, we're only about 5 weeks in.)

[abbeyej]

... I made her re-do the ENTIRE assignment TWICE because she had not followed directions at ALL...

 

Good for you, Mama! And yes, I bet that was pretty miserable for *both* of you at the time -- but the lessons learned (and re-learned a few times over the years) will serve her so well going forward. It will save you both time and stress in the future. :)

[melmichigan]

I am learning that with her dysgraphia my DD is doing much better using the suggested questions to answer to write her narrative summary from, versus having her list out all the points and eliminate and combine to write the summary. I still make her list out the points, but her summary comes from the questions for now, otherwise she misses the important details. She is used to key word outlines from IEW, not drawing important points from longer passages so I'm really glad we are taking the time to do WWS.

 

I had to go back and have DD redo the outline assignment last week because she kept adding to much detail for a change. There is never a dull moment when it comes to writing in this house.

[lewelma]

Well, we have finished our diversion to WWE, and are back into WWS. DS follows the directions beautifully, is quite independent, and produces great summaries and outlines. However, (and it is a big however), he takes soooooo long. Like twice what he should. How do I get him to increase speed? It is not a matter of focus, it just seems to take him a while to decide on the main points. Is this likely just a matter of needing to master the material in order to work faster? Or should I do some speed "freewrites"? Improve his typing skills (he is currently handwriting everything, and I do require him to be tidy)? Any suggestions? Anyone BTDT?

 

Ruth

[Colleen in NS]

Well, we have finished our diversion to WWE, and are back into WWS. DS follows the directions beautifully, is quite independent, and produces great summaries and outlines. However, (and it is a big however), he takes soooooo long. Like twice what he should. How do I get him to increase speed? It is not a matter of focus, it just seems to take him a while to decide on the main points. Is this likely just a matter of needing to master the material in order to work faster? Or should I do some speed "freewrites"? Improve his typing skills (he is currently handwriting everything, and I do require him to be tidy)? Any suggestions? Anyone BTDT?

 

Ruth

 

Could it be that he is just getting used to how to decide on the main events for a summary or the main ideas for paragraph topics? Is there anything in the teacher manual that you might bring up with him?

 

I let my son start typing his narrations when he was around grade 5, and it vastly improved his attitude and ability to think and get thoughts onto his paper. He didn't have to think about the handwriting part (that was painful to him) anymore while narrating (although he still does handwriting for some things, and his printing and cursive are nice).

[lewelma]

Thanks so much Colleen. I did not know that there was an teachers' manual..... I'm guessing that it might help.:D

 

Ruth

[Colleen in NS]

Thanks so much Colleen. I did not know that there was an teachers' manual..... I'm guessing that it might help.:D

 

Ruth

 

LOL! And I just assumed everyone who has a copy of WWS received a TM! :D And yes, it's a huge help.

[Janice in NJ]

Ruth,

 

Sample Instructor's Guide:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/WWS.InstructorSmallSample.pdf

 

An important part of the program.

 

Peace,

Janice