Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

[leeannpal]

But these things do not define the entity that is the god itself. They are merely interpretations of its laws or its words or a manner in which one would/should worship it.

 

The OP asked if Muslims and Christians were worshipping the same ENTITY, not asking whether they believed they worshipped it similarly, or even if they had similar interpretations of what it is/was.

 

Someone else can have a very different set of laws, words and manners of worship, but still be worshipping the exact same entity that is the god in question.

Because Christians believe that God is triune, the Godhead cannot be separated from Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Allah cannot be same.

[twoforjoy]

It is not reasonable to Jews to see Christianity as an extension of Judaism. Nowhere in Judaism is there the concept of a divine man-god who is part of a multiple-parted god-head.

 

In fact, we could compare the way that Muslims see themselves in relation to Christianity to the way that Christians see themselves in relation to Jews. Christians think they are an extension/fulfillment of Judaism, but that is NOT something that Jewish people believe. And, Muslims think they are an extension/fulfillment of Judaism and Christianity, but Christians don't believe that.

[Spy Car]

Because Christians believe that God is triune, the Godhead cannot be separated from Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Allah cannot be same.

 

I can see how might make such a claim. But this standard would also exclude Jews, correct?

 

Bill

[leeannpal]

This is probably not something I should ask, but I'm genuinely curious, because I don't get it: if you don't think Christians and Muslims worship the same God, what do you think Muslims are worshiping? A different God? A demon? Nothing?

 

I guess, as I said above, the way I see it, if there's an Ultimate Reality/higher power, then that's what sincere seekers are worshiping. (I'm not talking, for example, about a satanist who says they are worshiping Satan; obviously they aren't worshiping the same God that other religions are worshiping.) So I might not agree with the Hindu understanding of God, but I think they are attempting to know and access the same God (the one in whom we live and move and have our being, who is over all) that I am. I might even think they are totally wrong, but I'd have to think they are wrong in their understanding of the same deity that I am seeking to understand.

 

If we're monotheists, I guess I don't understand how we could think that sincere seekers aren't seeking after the same God. Again, that's not making a claim that all religions are the same or all equally right, but just that they are all seeking to understand the same thing, whether they are going about it the right way or not. If they aren't worshiping the same God, then what is the object of their worship?

A different god? Why does it have to be the same god?

[Audrey]

Because Christians believe that God is triune, the Godhead cannot be separated from Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Allah cannot be same.

 

 

But that is a quantity that you have assigned to your belief in that entity. Muslims are worshipping the same entity. They simply ascribe different quantities to it than you. You are arguing a point of subjective view vs. the question of objective reality.

 

Or, as Denise so well stated upthread, "Religion and theology can come to many different opinions but that is our subjective view of Him, not His objective reality."

[twoforjoy]

Because Christians believe that God is triune, the Godhead cannot be separated from Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Allah cannot be same.

 

That would mean that Jews aren't worshiping the same God, either.

 

I can see saying that a non-triune understanding is a false understanding of the one true God. But, again, I'm not seeing why it follows that it's a different God.

 

Historic Unitarians didn't believe that God was triune. AFAIK, nobody accused them of worshiping a different God. Accuse them of heresy? Sure. Say they were wrong? Yup. But the idea was that they were heretical in their understanding of God, not that they worshiped a different God. I'm not sure why people wouldn't see Islam in the same way.

[Audrey]

A different god? Why does it have to be the same god?

 

 

Because if you believe that there is only One True God, then you cannot acknowledge that others may worship another god without creating a logical fallacy of your own belief in One True God. Either the other god must be rendered a false god, and therefore not a god at all, or your god cannot be called the One True God.

[twoforjoy]

A different god? Why does it have to be the same god?

 

I guess this is where I'm getting lost in this.

 

Are we talking about there actually being numerous tribal gods, as people in the OT believed? So that Christians worship the God of Abraham, and Muslims worship a God named Allah, and both are gods?

 

Or are we saying that there's a big-G God and then little-g gods, and Muslims are worshiping a little-g god?

 

Or are you coming at this from an atheistic perspective, that there is no God, all conceptions are wrong anyway, and Christians and Muslims are talking about two different made-up gods?

 

I'm not really sure how a monotheist could believe that Muslims are worshiping a different God, though.

[leeannpal]

I can see how might make such a claim. But this standard would also exclude Jews, correct?

 

Bill

I had a student ask this question just a few days ago. Actually, the question was, "Are Jews going to be in Heaven snce they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah?" My answer was and is that I have no idea who will be in Heaven. That is entirely up to God.

 

I personally believe that the answer may lie in the fact that time/space is not relative to God as it is to us.

[leeannpal]

Because if you believe that there is only One True God, then you cannot acknowledge that others may worship another god without creating a logical fallacy of your own belief in One True God. Either the other god must be rendered a false god, and therefore not a god at all, or your god cannot be called the One True God.

That was my point. Yes, people can believe in false gods.

[Carol in Cal.]

It is not reasonable to Jews to see Christianity as an extension of Judaism. I know that.

 

Nowhere in Judaism is there the concept of a divine man-god who is part of a multiple-parted god-head.

 

I would dispute that, based on Hebrews and Romans. And Genesis, for that matter. But I think that you know that. :001_smile:

 

Judaism denies Christianity much (much) more than Islam does, although both are alike in denying the divinity of Jesus.

 

True.

 

But if accepting that belief in Jesus as God is the standard for worshipping the same God, then both Jews and Muslims are alike in worshipping a different God than Christians.

 

Bill

I didn't set that standard, so it's irrelevant to my points. I don't believe that accepting that belief in Jesus as God is the standard for worshipping the same God. My point was completely different from that.

[leeannpal]

I guess this is where I'm getting lost in this.

 

Are we talking about there actually being numerous tribal gods, as people in the OT believed? So that Christians worship the God of Abraham, and Muslims worship a God named Allah, and both are gods?

 

Or are we saying that there's a big-G God and then little-g gods, and Muslims are worshiping a little-g god?

 

Or are you coming at this from an atheistic perspective, that there is no God, all conceptions are wrong anyway, and Christians and Muslims are talking about two different made-up gods?

 

I'm not really sure how a monotheist could believe that Muslims are worshiping a different God, though.

 

Why? There have been singular false gods mentioned in history-Baal is just one example. Just because one has a monotheistic belief does mean that the god is the same. It is the same with polytheism. Hindus do not have te same set of gods that the ancient Egyptians or the ancient Greeks did.

[twoforjoy]

Why? There have been singular false gods mentioned in history-Baal is just one example. Just because one has a monotheistic belief does mean that the god is the same. It is the same with polytheism. Hindus do not have te same set of gods that the ancient Egyptians or the ancient Greeks did.

 

If you are worshiping a false god, what are you worshiping? Or, more specifically, if you believe that when Muslims talk about Allah, they aren't talking about the same God Christians are talking about, what is Allah, in actuality?

[Spy Car]

I had a student ask this question just a few days ago. Actually, the question was, "Are Jews going to be in Heaven snce they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah?" My answer was and is that I have no idea who will be in Heaven. That is entirely up to God.

 

I personally believe that the answer may lie in the fact that time/space is not relative to God as it is to us.

 

With due respect, you dodged the question. Jews do not believe Jesus was divine, that he was God, or a personage or God, nor do they believe that a Messiah will be anything but a human leader.

 

So do they, like Muslims, not worship the same Triune God? I can't see the answer being anything but no.

 

Bill

[Remudamom]

I don't have the energy or desire to read through all this but here is my answer. Christians worship a God who is the father of Christ. Muslims do not, therefore they can not be the same.

[leeannpal]

I have a great respect for other religions and cultures. In class, I try to make it a priority to teach about religions without the cultural biases that are so common. We had a great discussion about how Muslims are not terrorists, that most want peace and a normal life.

 

But, personally, I do believe there is one truth about God. Believing that means that other gods, by default, must be false. I am assuming this is common among people who believe that their god is the one true god.

[leeannpal]

With due respect, you dodged the question. Jews do not believe Jesus was divine, that he was God, or a personage or God, nor do they believe that a Messiah will be anything but a human leader.

 

So do they, like Muslims, not worship the same Triune God? I can't see the answer being anything but no.

 

Bill

Of course I dodged the question, but it is absolutely what I believe. I do not know the answer and will not lie to my students. "Who can know the mind of God?"

[Spy Car]

I don't have the energy or desire to read through all this but here is my answer. Christians worship a God who is the father of Christ. Muslims do not, therefore they can not be the same.

 

Jews also do not worship a God that was the father of Christ.

 

Bill

[ereks mom]

:iagree:

 

I will add that most denominations/sects that call themselves Christians (not all) believe that Christ is part of the deity that they call God. Therefore, my answer has to be no, not necessarily.

 

:iagree:

[leeannpal]

Jews also do not worship a God that was the father of Christ.

 

Bill

Or Jews do worship the same God but are a little off on the timing of the Messiah. Islam does not include a belief in a Messiah.

[twoforjoy]

But, personally, I do believe there is one truth about God. Believing that means that other gods, by default, must be false.

 

What does it mean for a god to be false, though? I don't mean to be pushy, and this honestly isn't facetious; I just do not get it.

 

Is a false god just nothing? They're worshiping air? Is a false god an entity of some sort that really exists but isn't god? Is it a demon? Is it actually a god that just doesn't happen to be the big, in-charge god?

[leeannpal]

What does it mean for a god to be false, though? I don't mean to be pushy, and this honestly isn't facetious; I just do not get it.

 

Is a false god just nothing? They're worshiping air? Is a false god an entity of some sort that really exists but isn't god? Is it a demon? Is it actually a god that just doesn't happen to be the big, in-charge god?

I don't know. What do you think?

[Carol in Cal.]

Is a false god just nothing? They're worshiping air? Is a false god an entity of some sort that really exists but isn't god? Is it a demon?

 

All of these, at various points, yes.

[sheryl]

Jews also do not worship a God that was the father of Christ.

 

Bill

 

Well, Messianic Jews (I have many MJ friends) "do" worship the one true G-D that IS the Father of Christ. However, that may apply to other Jews who do not believe in Yeshua, but still worship G-D.

[Spy Car]

Or Jews do worship the same God but are a little off on the timing of the Messiah. Islam does not include a belief in a Messiah.

 

Not in a divine Messiah. In Judaism the Messiah will be a great king, butna fully human one. The man-god conception of Jesus is a Christian innovation (and one that Jews throughly reject).

 

ETA: You are wrong about Islam, they do believe in the concept of a Messiah (Madhi).

 

 

Bill

Edited September 8, 2011 by Spy Car

[twoforjoy]

I don't know. What do you think?

 

I don't think Muslims are worshiping a false God; I think they have a different understanding of the one God.

 

So I'd say there's no such thing as a literal false God. There's only one God, so a "false god" would be nothing. Figuratively, of course, a "false god" is different, and I'd say it would be referring to a material thing (money, success, power, beauty, etc.) that somebody puts first in their life.

[twoforjoy]

Well, Messianic Jews (I have many MJ friends) "do" worship the one true G-D that IS the Father of Christ. However, that may apply to other Jews who do not believe in Yeshua, but still worship G-D.

 

Most Jewish people do not consider Messianic Jews to be "real" (i.e., practicing/observant/religious) Jews. Now, I'm not saying they are right or not, but their own self-definition would exclude those who accept certain theological claims about Jesus.

[Spy Car]

Well, Messianic Jews (I have many MJ friends) "do" worship the one true G-D that IS the Father of Christ. However, that may apply to other Jews who do not believe in Yeshua, but still worship G-D.

 

But they are not religious Jews, they practice Christianity.

 

Bill

[dangermom]

 

But, personally, I do believe there is one truth about God. Believing that means that other gods, by default, must be false. I am assuming this is common among people who believe that their god is the one true god.

I don't think the second statement follows from the first.

 

"I do believe there is one truth about God." Sure, me too. There is an objective truth about God.

 

But there probably isn't a person alive on the earth today who fully understands that objective truth. I have certain beliefs about God, some parts of which may well be wrong. (IMO they aren't all wrong. ;) But you and Bill would each disagree with me about that, for different reasons.) You also have certain beliefs about God, some parts of which might well be wrong. A Muslim also has certain beliefs about God, some parts of which might be wrong. But we've probably each got some parts right, too.

 

It is perfectly possible that we are all looking, through our subjective lenses, at God and disagreeing about what we see. The objective truth is there--but none of us sees that.

 

So I don't see how your second sentence--"that means that other gods must be false"--follows from the first one. To me it is not a logical inference.

[Mrs Twain]

I think you could interpret the OP's question two different ways (at least).

 

One interpretation would be asking if Muslims and Christians have the same God, as in their definitions of God being the same. That is an easier question to answer. Their definitions of God's character and attributes are in many ways similar, but in some ways very different.

 

Another interpretation of the question is that she asked if Muslims and Christians are worshipping the same God in the sense that both are successful in their worship. Does God regard the worship of Muslims and of Christians? That question is more controversial.

 

I can see that some Christians would say that Muslims worship the same God, though they are separated from Him because of sin, since Muslims are pursuing a works-based religion. Salvation can not be accomplished by works according to the Bible. According to the Bible, trusting in Jesus' death and resurrection is the only way to be forgiven of sin and reconciled to God.

 

I can see how other Christians say that Muslims are not worshipping the same God because Muslims' beliefs about God's character and attributes, as well as their attempt to achieve salvation ( i.e. "get to heaven"), are different. They may be so different that some could consider Muslims' beliefs of God as incompatible with Christians' and the Bible.

[leeannpal]

Not in a divine Messiah. In Judaism the Messiah will be a great king, butna fully human one. The man-god conception of Jesus is a Christian innovation (and one that Jews throughly reject).

 

ETA: You are wrong about Islam, they do believe in the concept of a Messiah (Madhi).

 

Mahdi was not an original belief of Muhammed. It is [rimarily a Shi'a belief. The Mahdi is describe as a savior that will cleanse the earth, not a heavenly savior that is necessary to get into Heaven (paradise)

Bill

 

Mahdi was not an original belief of Muhammed. It is [rimarily a Shi'a belief. The Mahdi is describe as a savior that will cleanse the earth, not a heavenly savior that is necessary to get into Heaven (paradise)

[Carol in Cal.]

Most Jewish people do not consider Messianic Jews to be "real" (i.e., practicing/observant/religious) Jews.

 

I know that this is true, and I find it interesting.

I know atheist Jews, Buddist Jews, and agnostic Jews. They all are considered 'real' by all but the most orthodox Jews I know. And the Right of Return to Israel applies to all of them. But not to Christian Jews. It's inconsistent.

[leeannpal]

I don't think the second statement follows from the first.

 

"I do believe there is one truth about God." Sure, me too. There is an objective truth about God.

 

But there probably isn't a person alive on the earth today who fully understands that objective truth. I have certain beliefs about God, some parts of which may well be wrong. (IMO they aren't all wrong. ;) But you and Bill would each disagree with me about that, for different reasons.) You also have certain beliefs about God, some parts of which might well be wrong. A Muslim also has certain beliefs about God, some parts of which might be wrong. But we've probably each got some parts right, too.

 

It is perfectly possible that we are all looking, through our subjective lenses, at God and disagreeing about what we see. The objective truth is there--but none of us sees that.

 

So I don't see how your second sentence--"that means that other gods must be false"--follows from the first one. To me it is not a logical inference.

Sure it is. Even if we subjectively see things differently about god, ultimately, there is only one truth. The fact that we don't perceive it does not make it any less true.

[Spy Car]

Mahdi was not an original belief of Muhammed. It is [rimarily a Shi'a belief. The Mahdi is describe as a savior that will cleanse the earth, not a heavenly savior that is necessary to get into Heaven (paradise)

 

I'm sorry, but you are misinformed. The concept of a Madhi is common to both Sunni and Shi'a forms of Islam. As you say the Madhi is not a personage of God, that would be heretical to Muslims just as it is heretical to Jews.

 

Jews not believe in the concept of a man-god Messiah, nor do Muslims. This is a Christian (only) belief.

 

Bill

[zenjenn]

There is only one true God.

 

I'll leave it to Him to determine the validity of any one person's worship.

[Joanne]

My answer is yes. I would never (ok, rarely) presume to understand for any other individual their idea of God.

 

I find that exclusive religion types are limiting to spirit/God. Most spiritual affliations come down to geographic/ethnic/cultural legacy and I can't imagine any God that would judge based on factors determined by a person's demographics.

 

The New Testament says that Jesus is the only way to God so...........no, you can't have God without Jesus if you believe in the New Testament.

 

Not every Christian interprets and frames the verse you are alluding to in this way.

 

As a Christian, I do not believe that Muslims and Christians believe in the same God. If you read the Koran and the Bible, I don't see how anyone could possibly come to that conclusion.

 

I haven't read the whole Koran but enough to know that it is very different from the Bible.

 

I've read all of both; and I believe they worship the same God.

 

IME, many people staunch with an exclusive religion see "their" Bible as right and not absurd and fail to see how their spiritual story/history is just as absurd as other spiritual stories.

[sheryl]

Most Jewish people do not consider Messianic Jews to be "real" (i.e., practicing/observant/religious) Jews. Now, I'm not saying they are right or not, but their own self-definition would exclude those who accept certain theological claims about Jesus.

 

Yes, fully aware of that....

 

They do not consider Jesus to be the REAL Messiah so they of course would not accept MJ.

[sheryl]

But they are not religious Jews, they practice Christianity.

 

Bill

 

 

:confused: I need you to more fully explain this, Bill. Have a h'school meeting to go to tonight, but will check out later.

[dangermom]

Sure it is. Even if we subjectively see things differently about god, ultimately, there is only one truth. The fact that we don't perceive it does not make it any less true.

No, it doesn't. But how do you know that one vision is so wrong as to be completely, utterly false and not God at all? You can't. You can't see the objective truth either.

[Orthodox6]

No. If a Muslim professes belief in the Holy Trinity, in the co-equal and eternal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then he or she no longer believes in the deity professed by Islam.

 

I am responding to the question as posed in the thread title, and not to any of the sub-questions which came up in the thread.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Orthodox6

[Spy Car]

No. If a Muslim professes belief in the Holy Trinity, in the co-equal and eternal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then he or she no longer believes in the deity professed by Islam.

 

Again, same with Jews regarding Judaism.

 

Bill

[zenjenn]

No. If a Muslim professes belief in the Holy Trinity, in the co-equal and eternal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then he or she no longer believes in the deity professed by Islam.

 

Well a Muslim doesn't. A Jew also doesn't. So by that definition, Jews do not believe in the same deity as Christianity either.

[Lovedtodeath]

I was trying to worship the God of Abraham and thought I was for years. But I was not worshiping the God that I worship now.

 

I was not worshiping God in spirit as is required until I accepted Jesus Christ as my only mediator, and I didn't really know God, which is also required.

 

John chapter 4 and John 17:3

Edited September 8, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[EKS]

Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham.

 

This.

[Ria]

Well a Muslim doesn't. A Jew also doesn't. So by that definition, Jews do not believe in the same deity as Christianity either.

 

Yes, that's how I see it. The Christian faith would, to me, say that this was the same God. But the Muslim or Jewish faith, given the Bible - and the deity of Christ in the Bible - would say it is not the same God, in fact, could not say it was the same God.

 

So, perhaps the question should be this: Do Muslims and Jews worship the same God as in the Old Testament? It all changes in the NT.

[SeekingHim77]

My answer is yes. I would never (ok, rarely) presume to understand for any other individual their idea of God.

 

I find that exclusive religion types are limiting to spirit/God. Most spiritual affliations come down to geographic/ethnic/cultural legacy and I can't imagine any God that would judge based on factors determined by a person's demographics.

 

 

 

Not every Christian interprets and frames the verse you are alluding to in this way.

 

 

 

 

 

I've read all of both; and I believe they worship the same God.

 

IME, many people staunch with an exclusive religion see "their" Bible as right and not absurd and fail to see how their spiritual story/history is just as absurd as other spiritual stories.

 

There is more than one verse that I am alluding to. :001_smile:

 

I believe that the Bible makes it clear that God will reveal Himself to all who are truly seeking Him-not there own preconceived notions of who He should be. God is good and all those who seek shall find. When we draw near to God, He draws near to us.

 

I think people often choose their beliefs to support their lifestyle choices, thereby forming their own god in a way.

 

 

See, I just don't get how someone can have a nonexlusive religion. There has to be some objective truth beyond simply what I think or feel or whatever. So what is that truth? Where does the idea that many religions lead to God come from?

 

My objective truth is the Bible. The Muslim's objective truth is the Koran/Q'uran (sp.?). The Jewish objective truth comes from the Old Testament. Where do those who believe all religions are equal get their objective truth?

 

I am so thankful to live in a country where we are all free to believe as we choose and voice those beliefs. I'm thankful that Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc. all have the right worship as they/we see fit. I certainly wouldn't want to come across as thinking I am better than or that my beliefs are more important than any one else's.

 

Doesn't the belief in God mandate that one is only worshiping the one, true God if they are worshiping Him as He is and not as who they think He is? If so, how can any two people of conflicting religions be truly worshiping the same God?

Edited September 8, 2011 by Melanie32
quoting mistakes

[Shellydon]

Yes, that's how I see it. The Christian faith would, to me, say that this was the same God. But the Muslim or Jewish faith, given the Bible - and the deity of Christ in the Bible - would say it is not the same God, in fact, could not say it was the same God.

 

So, perhaps the question should be this: Do Muslims and Jews worship the same God as in the Old Testament? It all changes in the NT.

 

 

I would say no. I think Muslims worship one of the idols (like Baal) that the one true God warns against.

[Lovedtodeath]

So, perhaps the question should be this: Do Muslims and Jews worship the same God as in the Old Testament? It all changes in the NT.

I disagree. The God of the OT is the same God of the NT, and I had to discover that.

 

Doesn't the belief in God mandate that one is only worshiping the one, true God if they are worshiping Him as He is and not as who they think He is? If so, how can any two people of conflicting religions be truly worshiping the same God?

:iagree:

[Ria]

I disagree. The God of the OT is the same God of the NT, and I had to discover that.

 

Well, yes, but I think you are missing my point. The God of the OT, at least in my understanding, is who the Muslims and Jews are worshipping. The NT is what makes a Christian a Christian. But if you stripped away the NT and did not consider it, are we not all talking about the same God?

 

ETA: I understand that God is God and all that. But the NT brings in Christ. Without mention of Christ, I think the OT God is the same one for the Jews and the Muslims.

[amey311]

If you are worshiping a false god, what are you worshiping? Or, more specifically, if you believe that when Muslims talk about Allah, they aren't talking about the same God Christians are talking about, what is Allah, in actuality?

 

I tried to ask this back several pages, or something similar. I was trying to get a visual understanding of the whole thing because that would help me. If you envision a human version of your god, and you believe that other faiths are not worshipping the same god, then what does heaven look like? Are there separate gods that different people are praying to? Are those outside your faith not praying to anyone (in your belief)? Do you envision separate heavens for the different religions?

 

When I was practicing, I assumed that everyone who believed in a monotheistic, "big three religion" god, was praying to the same guy. Their personal belief paths might be different (goodness knows they're different within the same path, ie. different types of Christians contained within the Christian umbrella), but it was all the same guy. I assumed that polytheists were praying to different gods.

 

Writing about this just shows me that I've been pretty agnostic for a long time.