stripe Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Few Dutch women work full-time—does this mean they’re powerless, or simply smarter than the rest of us? http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/19/the-feminismhappiness-axis/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 What an interesting article. Then there’s the matter of principle. “I think highly educated women have a moral obligation to take top positions, to set an example by their choices,†says Mees. “When women just stay at home or work part-time, they don’t reach the top, and they set bad examples for their daughters and daughters’ daughters.†What a load. They have no obligation. It’s hard to argue that people who choose the lives they want, and opt for happiness rather that titles, are not empowered. (I grew up in the Netherlands with a Dutch mother and a Canadian father and came of age watching my female relatives—who hail from educated, middle-class families—repeatedly prioritize free time over career progress and money.) Nevertheless, Mees argues that striving for happiness is slowing down progress in the women’s movement. “Happiness is overrated. It’s defined as the absence of problems. But it’s good to have challenges in your life. I believe in another kind of strength that women should have.†Are you kidding? Happiness is overrated, so go to work and be unhappy? What an idiot. Who cares if the Dutch women prefer to work part time? Isn't part of feminism the freedom to choose what you want to do, not be forced into something? I say good for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 How can anyone be truly happy there? Spanking is illegal. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 How can anyone be truly happy there? Spanking is illegal. :D Yes, but many other things that are illegal in many other countries ARE lega therel. Maybe that's why? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Yes, but many other things that are illegal in many other countries ARE lega therel. Maybe that's why? :lol: Like prostitution and marijuana?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 How can anyone be truly happy there? Spanking is illegal. :D Oh my, this thread might now get very very interesting very quickly. Or very quickly locked. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The Dutch don't spank and they breastfeed. And they have health care. They also don't allow soda at camp. (j/k, not sure about that part.) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Like prostitution and marijuana?? It was a joke. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think I read somewhere that the Dutch poop marshmallows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I guess I'm out of the loop. When was 3rd wave feminism that we're now needing to start 4th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I hear that formula and white flour are illegal too. You may only ingest whole wheat and it MUST be ground with a stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I hear that formula and white flour are illegal too. You may only ingest whole wheat and it MUST be ground with a stone. Windmill ground only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I hear that formula and white flour are illegal too. You may only ingest whole wheat and it MUST be ground with a stone. :lol: Seems certain "feminist" types still like to tell women what to do. How are they any better than a chauvinist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) OK, off the read the article now. I was bad. I erased myself. Edited August 19, 2011 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I hear that formula and white flour are illegal too. You may only ingest whole wheat and it MUST be ground with a stone. I've seen formula at stores the The Netherlands, so I'm pretty sure that's not true. Also, I believe it's only bleached white flour. I've eaten many a pastry in The Netherlands that are clearly made with white flour. Apparently a few year back they had some trouble with a flour cartel. Yes, flour cartel. http://www.bakeryandsnacks.com/Financial/Price-fixing-in-Dutch-flour-sector-probed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theYoungerMrsWarde Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I am just flabbergasted by the quotes in the article from the people who oppose these women's choices! And I would like to know about the 3 "waves" of feminism before now :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 She thought it was bad that girls agreed they had the right to bake cookies if they wanted to and it was nobody's business?? That is so crazy. I suppose the 22 yr old boy was a chauvinist for even suggesting that his wife might want to bake cookies? And a as a SAHM w/a lot to do to take care of the house and hs, I wish I had time to bake cookies, btw... I remember the days when the kids were preschoolers and we could do that a lot. I suppose making those memories with the kids is damaging them somehow, because they should have been in daycare ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganClassicalPrep Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Isn't part of feminism the freedom to choose what you want to do, not be forced into something? I say good for them. I agree with this. I think there are some women (and families) for whom staying home is the right thing, just as there are some women and families who working is the right thing to do. I'm grateful that I live in a time where women are able to choose whether to work or stay at home, and other than heated "discussions" among (mostly) other women, we are able to pursue the choices we make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Van Haeren echoes these sentiments. “Dutch women do not aspire to top positions because they do not want to encourage the values of the business models of today’s world. It is a silent resistance movement,†she says. “Maybe this will turn out to be the fourth wave of feminism. Women protect the possibility that one day we’ll wake up to realize that life is not all about acquiring more material wealth, power, status. Many Dutch women that I know want to stay sane, happy, relaxed.†What's wrong with that? Bully for them. BUT I think yhat this has a LOT to do with WHY they can choose these things: Social structures, however, undoubtedly play a role in what choices are available. Generous social programs make it possible for a two-parent family to get by quite nicely on a single full-time income. And yet, a strain of social conservatism persists in Holland: daycare is expensive, and shops close at 6 p.m. on weekdays and are closed entirely on Sundays—less than conducive to the daily juggling of full-time work and raising a family. I think it's a great article. They have found a way to have their cake and eat it, too. It wouldn't fly here, though, because people would screm SOCIALISM! BUt, perhaps if everything closed down on Sunday because "It's the Lord's Day' it would be a better spin. :D I agree with this. I think there are some women (and families) for whom staying home is the right thing, just as there are some women and families who working is the right thing to do. I'm grateful that I live in a time where women are able to choose whether to work or stay at home, and other than heated "discussions" among (mostly) other women, we are able to pursue the choices we make. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I am just flabbergasted by the quotes in the article from the people who oppose these women's choices! And I would like to know about the 3 "waves" of feminism before now :confused: Third Wave Feminism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I'm grateful that I live in a time where women are able to choose whether to work or stay at home :iagree: Then there’s the matter of principle. “I think highly educated women have a moral obligation to take top positions, to set an example by their choices,” says Mees. “When women just stay at home or work part-time, they don’t reach the top, and they set bad examples for their daughters and daughters’ daughters.” What a load. They have no obligation. Isn't part of feminism the freedom to choose what you want to do, not be forced into something? I say good for them. :iagree: Furthermore, I believe that highly educated women choosing to stay home serves as a lovely example of education as a worthwhile pursuit in and of itself, rather than merely as means to an end. What a novel concept! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think I read somewhere that the Dutch poop marshmallows Oh! I'm off to make s'mores!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You heard it here first. Chick-fil-A is a socialist restaurant!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You heard it here first. Chick-fil-A is a socialist restaurant!!! LOL! All stores in Germany are closed on Sunday too. At first it was annoying because I was used to getting what I wanted, when I wanted it, but now, I kind of like it. Back when we first lived in Germany (1997) all stores had to (by law) close at 8pm M-F and 4pm on Sat. If you didn't have what you needed by 4pm, well, it sucked to be you until Mon rolled around. Saturdays were pure chaos in the stores. Everyone was trying to get their stuff before 4. Starting in 2005 (IIRC), stores are allowed to be open until 10pm (though most still stick to 8pm) and until 8pm on Sat! Woohoo! Most 24 hour services are not allowed, except things like gas stations, so McDonald's got around it by being open 23 hours a day. I think they're closed from 2-3am. See, Americans just can't stand it unless we figure out a way to get around the rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I've seen formula at stores the The Netherlands, so I'm pretty sure that's not true. Also, I believe it's only bleached white flour. I've eaten many a pastry in The Netherlands that are clearly made with white flour. Apparently a few year back they had some trouble with a flour cartel. Yes, flour cartel. http://www.bakeryandsnacks.com/Financial/Price-fixing-in-Dutch-flour-sector-probed Of COURSE it's not true. Didn't you see the tag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Of COURSE it's not true. Didn't you see the tag? I rarely look at tags, but now I will. Though bleached flour is a no no in many countries. Also, FLOUR CARTEL. Who needs blow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Socialist aspects of the government aside, I think what's most important for those women is that their society says that working part-time is *OK*, it's productive enough for both the workers and businesses, and suits many, many families so they make it a priority. Businesses are on board with job-sharing and PT positions there and I'd wager Holland has a much happier and productive work force. You can have a part-time CAREER, which is a fabulous option! America is way behind in family-friendly work environments, IMO. (I know that there are some companies that are leaps ahead, but it's not the norm that I can see.) Edited August 19, 2011 by 6packofun typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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