4everHis Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well in my case it would be Jack not Wolf but yeah, what she said!!! I would be upset even if it weren't my daughters :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 This isn't happening in the church I currently take the girls to, so it's more of a hypothetical WWYD, or maybe a "What Would You Have Done." Senior pastor regularly seen grabbing teenage girl in "bear hugs" and not letting her go, kissing her all over her face (not on the mouth), holding her so she can't get away, and making jokes like, "I wish I were single, so I could ask you out on a date, ha, ha" I think about this in terms of it happening to my girls and the mama bear in me roars. But, maybe I'm too sensitive and blowing things out of proportion. Would it bother you if it happened to your daughter? Would the age of the pastor matter? Why or why not? Thanks for helping me think this through. Oh, I would be infuriated! I expect MORE from a pastor. 1. YES, it would bother me. 2. NO, I don't care the age of the pastor! 3. Because it.isn't.right. no matter how you cut it. This would need to be handled biblically. According to G-d's words not man made rules. I'm sorry to be blunt, but this would upset me to no end. Something similar to this did happen in our presence and it was disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartosunshine Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 An example of sexual assault from the Center for Victims of Crime website regarding the laws on sexual assault: "Someone touching, fondling, kissing or making any unwanted contact with your body" The fact that he "holds the girls & doesn't allow them to get away" and "hugs" and "kisses" are all major red flags. It doesn't matter that he was "just kidding"! A crime was committed by a person in power & no one stood up to him to protect the underaged victims. :mad: :grouphug: :grouphug: for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm so sad right now. I think I might need to just get the hell over it. I don't think you should get over it. If you are concerned, it's fine to be up front about it. Ask if there is a policy in place. Ask how he would deal with it. You are a parent and your kids go there. Too many people don't want to make waves because it isn't "nice". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I agree with many posters - it's inappropriate at best. Some version of this happened to me as a child & it leaves scars. He isn't ignorant of what he's doing - this doesn't happen by accident. ETA: Now that I've read through the whole thread. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I know what you're going through. Be patient with yourself. You can keep it hypothetical & that's OK. Don't feel pressured into telling when you don't want to or aren't ready. I'm so sorry. Edited July 14, 2011 by momoflaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I removed this because I posted before reading other posts and this doesnt fit now. Edited July 14, 2011 by Paz removed after reading rest of posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) In fact, he would do conferences on appropriate touching between genders. & this wasn't a big flashing red light that something was wrong? Edited July 14, 2011 by momoflaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 NO. Just, NO. No at any age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CariS Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't think you should get over it. If you are concerned, it's fine to be up front about it. Ask if there is a policy in place. Ask how he would deal with it. You are a parent and your kids go there. Too many people don't want to make waves because it isn't "nice". :iagree: Too many don't want to make waves and that tells predators to continue what they are doing, because no one is going to stop them. I know as a victim it's hard to be the one to speak up, but you will feel much better if you do. ~Cari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I have high anxiety in church - possibly because of that combined with some other experiences. I want to feel safe and I want my kids to be safe. I would share this with the pastor in your meeting. You can start by just telling him that you do have anxiety about church based on some experiences and that you don't really want to get into it all right now but that you just want to feel safe and want your kids to feel safe at church. Depending on how he deals with this information will help you to determine if you feel comfortable sharing any more and/or if you believe this current church would be a safe place. Most likely he will be very understanding. If he acts like a jerk then you really don't want to attend church there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom4him Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 It would *really* bother me if a pastor were acting this way toward any woman. It is not at all appropriate. :iagree:If it happened to one of my dd's I would pull her to side and let the pastor know his is NOT welcome to come near my dd. I would then let the board know(surely board members are witnessing this also) that I would not be back with my family.:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I can't think of any situation where this behavior would be appropriate. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 So, here's the lame-o update. I asked (e-mailed) the pastor of the church I take the DDs to the following: "What would happen if someone (meaning: AN ADULT) started hitting on a teenager (physically or verbally or both), even if he was "just kidding"? If you saw it, what would you do? What if you just heard about it? What would you do if it was a staff member?" (Notice that I didn't talk about me.) His response: he'd rather talk about it in person. Ugh. Noooooooo. Bleh. I love email. Don't friggin do this to me!! (Sorry, got a bit dramatic). I have a couple of weeks to figure out whether or not to keep it hypothetical. I probably will. I mean, I don't need or want him to do anything that's directly specific to my cruddy experiences with Pastor Dipwad. I just need to know (going forward) that the church my girls are at now is safe for all of us, kwim? :: sigh :: I'm so sad right now. I think I might need to just get the hell over it. (It occurs to me that, since I deleted a lot of personal details from an earlier email, some people may be reading this wondering what the heck I'm talking about. Short, less personal, answer: the hypothetical teenager in the OP is me. The scenario happened more than once. I have high anxiety in church - possibly because of that combined with some other experiences. I want to feel safe and I want my kids to be safe. The end. :tongue_smilie:) Honestly, I think you just need to go see him and let him know what's going on. If you don't feel comfortably talking to him about this then maybe it's not the church for you but I think he's got to know what's going on since it's so important to you.:) I bet that bringing it up with him will actually be a great help to you. Just wondering...Is attending a church with a female minister any kind of option for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) :iagree: I'd be wondering where the heck the teen's parents are! Wolf would have handed the guy his butt the FIRST time he put hands on our dd. This! Someone has BAAAAAADDDD thoughts and needs some healthy fear. So, who ever this person is, he needs some strong males of the father-bear mentality to have a non-ambiguous conversation with him. Oops, just noticed that the person in question is not a teen. So much for the father figure. But, I still think someone needs to put some fear in this person. To the OP, you are well within your rights to flat out tell this person with witnesses present so he knows THEY know about his tendencies, that he is to cease immediately and stay away or you will defend yourself and you don't care what anyone thinks. Make sure you imply heavily that certain body parts may be permanently damaged. I'm serious. I once had to defend myself against the unwanted advances of a man in our church when dh was out of town. We were getting ready to leave this church anyway because their way of dealing with any problem was to sweep it under the rug and blame the innocent for squawking. Since I knew I'd probably never get anywhere with any of the three pastors, I took the choir director (a wonderful friend of dh's) and one of dh's favorites from the bass section, hunted the scum down in the hallway, and told him what I would do if he ever laid a hand on me again. The other two men backed me up and shortly thereafter, this man left the church. I was never touched again. I am ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in favor of you having a showdown about this if necessary because it doesn't take long to go from the hugging you don't want, to prolonged hugging that makes your skin crawl, to the wandering hand sleazing it's way towards your rear when he thinks no one is looking. Plus, you don't know where his uncontrolled thought process will go next. The perv in question that was harrassing me while dh was out of town, ended up in jail for charging into women's houses and flashing them whenever he could find a door unlocked!!! Faith Edited July 15, 2011 by FaithManor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Girl should be taught to knee him in the happy sack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Girl should be taught to knee him in the happy sack. The sack would not be happy anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The sack would not be happy anymore... With a willing sparring partner, and a mat, you can learn to do this while "accidentally falling backwards". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 It would bother me no matter what woman I was in the equation. Daughter, mother, wife of the pastor? Uugh!! Even random parishioner who witnesses it. I would not sit under a pastor who behaved that way and age would not matter to me. Totally inappropriate, unprofessional, and sending up red flags from here to wherever. This isn't happening in the church I currently take the girls to, so it's more of a hypothetical WWYD, or maybe a "What Would You Have Done." Senior pastor regularly seen grabbing teenage girl in "bear hugs" and not letting her go, kissing her all over her face (not on the mouth), holding her so she can't get away, and making jokes like, "I wish I were single, so I could ask you out on a date, ha, ha" I think about this in terms of it happening to my girls and the mama bear in me roars. But, maybe I'm too sensitive and blowing things out of proportion. Would it bother you if it happened to your daughter? Would the age of the pastor matter? Why or why not? Thanks for helping me think this through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkInTheBlue Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 My ex-FIL would have and did do things like that. Totally and completely inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 This! Someone has BAAAAAADDDD thoughts and needs some healthy fear. So, who ever this person is, he needs some strong males of the father-bear mentality to have a non-ambiguous conversation with him. Oops, just noticed that the person in question is not a teen. I was a teen when it was happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missiemick Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Completely, unequivocally, universally inappropriate. If it were my daughter we would have 1- had to explain to the police why I beat the snot out of a full grown man (almost joking) 2- reported him to all available church authorities 3- found a new church (unless he was being removed and all other lay leadership was as outraged as we were) :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The difference in age, authority, and power between the two makes this sexual harassment. Furthermore, "I wish I were single" is a terrible witness in a spiritual leader who presumably is performing marriage ceremonies, doing premarital counselling, and such. If our pastor did this, I'd be quietly looking for another church. Loudly. I think I'd perform an actual physical intervention at kiss #2. On the other hand, if she's old enough to go to a sleepover (referencing another front page thread), then she's old enough to know how to "fend for herself?" So, up to this point how would you say she is Fending? Anyway, yeah, wildly inappropriate, I'm surprised if it isn't raising more eyebrows than just yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Loudly. I think I'd perform an actual physical intervention at kiss #2. On the other hand, if she's old enough to go to a sleepover (referencing another front page thread), then she's old enough to know how to "fend for herself?" So, up to this point how would you say she is Fending? Anyway, yeah, wildly inappropriate, I'm surprised if it isn't raising more eyebrows than just yours. Later in the thread I outed myself. This happened repeatedly to me when I was a teen. I did a poor job defending myself. At least for me, it was so much more complicated than it seems like it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Later in the thread I outed myself. This happened repeatedly to me when I was a teen. I did a poor job defending myself. At least for me, it was so much more complicated than it seems like it should be. :grouphug: No, a pastor's position of authority puts them in a perfect position to cause a great deal of damage if given too free a reign. It is completely unreasonable to expect a teenager to have the tools to navigate this sort of situation on their own. If this man was willing to publicly behave this way I would be willing to wager he was engaged in or seeking even more questionable and/or nefarious activities behind closed doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Immediately contact this man's boss. I would be on the phone to the Bishop immediately if I saw this. Someone in authority needs to confront him before worse happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) Later in the thread I outed myself. This happened repeatedly to me when I was a teen. I did a poor job defending myself. At least for me, it was so much more complicated than it seems like it should be. :grouphug: It was entirely inappropriate. He was the adult and in authority and responsible for his behavior towards you as a teen. I'm sorry that happened to you and the adults around you didn't step in. I can see how it might have felt complicated and confusing. I had a similar thing but with a "man of the church" and friend of the family rather than minister. He did end up having an affair with a very young woman and left his family. While it played off innocently enough in my case it still caused confusion and some damage to me I believe. At any rate, I think your minister likely had deep issues that played out in other ways beyond just you. Edited July 15, 2011 by sbgrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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