CA school system, language arts

[Roadrunner]

Does anybody know if CA schools teach phonetic spelling? We finished OPGTR last year. My oldest is going to be in the 1st grade next year. I am hoping school system will reinforce what we learned in phonics and teach him phonetic spelling, so I can concentrate on subjects at home. If you child has gone through CA schools, can you give me a short description of what they tend to teach in elementary years?

[jenbrdsly]

I use to teach K-4 in CA for six year. Spelling programs vary by district. Sorry that doesn't help you much! In general (at least 6 years ago when I use to teach), CA was using a Balanced Literacy approach to language arts. That does incorporate tons of phonics. Here are two links on my blog that fully describe what LA might look like in a CA classroom. (once again, 6 years ago!)

http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/03/01/phonics-whole-language-and-balanced-literacy-instruction/

 

http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/03/01/the-three-types-of-reading/

[Ellie]

California schools don't teach phonics. They were sucked into the whole-language pit many years ago. How that relates to spelling, I'm not sure, as spelling and phonics are not the same thing, but I suspect that the schools tend not to teach spelling rules and whatnot. My dc weren't in public schools in their early years, only in 6th grade. I just know that of the homeschoolers I knew who took their dc out of public school, and the ones I taught in a small private school, none had good spelling skills.

[Roadrunner]

It's so confusing. Apparently CA re-instituted phonics into classrooms, but what I saw during K shocked me. They taught words like Play, Like (and many more) as sight words. OPGTR saved us. I want to make sure there will be no gaps in my kids education. I am going to check out the links. In the meanwhile, what would you recommend as a spelling program? (Ellie, I know you have years of experience). We tried Spelling Workout and didn't like it. I am trying to generally figure out what subjects I can count on our public school to teach well. As is, we are already doing math (SM), history, grammar, writing and music at home. Plus tons of reading of course.

[jenbrdsly]

California schools don't teach phonics. They were sucked into the whole-language pit many years ago. How that relates to spelling, I'm not sure, as spelling and phonics are not the same thing, but I suspect that the schools tend not to teach spelling rules and whatnot. My dc weren't in public schools in their early years, only in 6th grade. I just know that of the homeschoolers I knew who took their dc out of public school, and the ones I taught in a small private school, none had good spelling skills.

 

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. Phonics is an important part of the CA curriculum. For more information, please look at the CA standards for language arts, specifically page 7 of the Common Core standards.

 

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/

[Roadrunner]

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. Phonics is an important part of the CA curriculum. For more information, please look at the CA standards for language arts, specifically page 7 of the Common Core standards.

 

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/

 

Thanks for the link! I will let the school handle it then.

[jenbrdsly]

It's so confusing. Apparently CA re-instituted phonics into classrooms, but what I saw during K shocked me. They taught words like Play, Like (and many more) as sight words. OPGTR saved us. I want to make sure there will be no gaps in my kids education. I am going to check out the links. In the meanwhile, what would you recommend as a spelling program? (Ellie, I know you have years of experience). We tried Spelling Workout and didn't like it. I am trying to generally figure out what subjects I can count on our public school to teach well. As is, we are already doing math (SM), history, grammar, writing and music at home. Plus tons of reading of course.

 

I just wanted to follow up on the sight word issue. This can be a bit confusing, but many (not all), but many primary teachers will have big "Word Walls" on their boards. These boards will include words that children have been taught to sound out phonetically, as well as sight words (or outlaw words) like "the".

 

But sometimes you also teach phonetic words to be memorized on sight. So that might be why "play" and "like" were considered sight words. The teacher might have wanted the kids to just know them cold, because they were such high frequency (dulche) words. That doesn't necessarily mean she didn't teach children how to sound them out when they were originally introduced. There is a whole bunch of research that shows that if kids know all of the dulche words cold, their reading levels go up. Make sense?

[Ellie]

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. Phonics is an important part of the CA curriculum. For more information, please look at the CA standards for language arts, specifically page 7 of the Common Core standards.

 

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/

 

I know it says that, but in practice, it mostly turns out to be sight reading with some phonics thrown in.

[Roadrunner]

I just wanted to follow up on the sight word issue. This can be a bit confusing, but many (not all), but many primary teachers will have big "Word Walls" on their boards. These boards will include words that children have been taught to sound out phonetically, as well as sight words (or outlaw words) like "the".

 

But sometimes you also teach phonetic words to be memorized on sight. So that might be why "play" and "like" were considered sight words. The teacher might have wanted the kids to just know them cold, because they were such high frequency (dulche) words. That doesn't necessarily mean she didn't teach children how to sound them out when they were originally introduced. There is a whole bunch of research that shows that if kids know all of the dulche words cold, their reading levels go up. Make sense? [/

[jenbrdsly]

I know it says that, but in practice, it mostly turns out to be sight reading with some phonics thrown in.

Granted, this was six years ago, but I taught in two separate and socioeconomically diverse school districts in California at grades K-4 for six years. In both school districts, phonics was an essential and systematic part of the LA curriculum. In one of the districts, the Packard foundation had even awarded the schools a 2 million dollar grant to help implement a phonics based reading program, "Open Court".

[Ellie]

Granted, this was six years ago, but I taught in two separate and socioeconomically diverse school districts in California at grades K-4 for six years. In both school districts, phonics was an essential and systematic part of the LA curriculum. In one of the districts, the Packard foundation had even awarded the schools a 2 million dollar grant to help implement a phonics based reading program, "Open Court".

Open Court is true phonics; I'm glad to hear that at least some school districts have come to their senses.:thumbup1:

 

I knew a teacher in Palo Alto who did Spalding with her students; she said she could get away with it because of the word "phonics" in the Ed. Code.

 

Sadly, not all school districts have learned their lesson. Maybe they will do so eventually.

[Spy Car]

The Los Angeles schools have been using "Open Court" for the past 7 years. It definitely has a phonics base, along with some high-frequency "sight-words."

 

But the run of "Open Court" is over in 2 days as a new program will be used come next Fall called "California Treasures." I got a brief look at the program this week (and groaned). There still seems to be a phonics base (which is good) but the Teachers materials (all I saw, and First Grade only) were so "busy" with side-bars and idea-bubbles and info-arrows and other such distracting element in garish colors that I got sea-sick.

 

I must imagine the student materials are no better. I am holding my breath.

 

I hate to be a downer but I don't think one can make the assumption that the LA schools will carry the full load in terms of teaching phonetic spelling. Seems unlikely.

 

Bill

[jenbrdsly]

Open Court is true phonics; I'm glad to hear that at least some school districts have come to their senses.:thumbup1:

 

I knew a teacher in Palo Alto who did Spalding with her students; she said she could get away with it because of the word "phonics" in the Ed. Code.

 

Sadly, not all school districts have learned their lesson. Maybe they will do so eventually.

 

Those Palo Alto scores are so high, whatever those teachers are doing must be working! :)

I really liked Open Court, the problem was that I had the 3rd grade ELL class, and almost all of the kids were newly arrived from Mexico. Some of them didn't know their letters. Yet, the way it worked I could only teach from the 3rd grade textbook and district reps would come check to make sure I was on the right page. What I really needed was the 1st grade textbook, because that's where my students were at. Ahh! It still makes me frustrated now almost ten years later.

In the other school district I used "Systematic Sequential Phonics They Use", which I thought was great.

[Ellie]

The Los Angeles schools have been using "Open Court" for the past 7 years. It definitely has a phonics base, along with some high-frequency "sight-words."

Open Court was one of the "Phonics Five" that the author of "Why Johnny Still Can't Read" listed in his book.

 

But the run of "Open Court" is over in 2 days as a new program will be used come next Fall called "California Treasures." I got a brief look at the program this week (and groaned). There still seems to be a phonics base (which is good) but the Teachers materials (all I saw, and First Grade only) were so "busy" with side-bars and idea-bubbles and info-arrows and other such distracting element in garish colors that I got sea-sick.

:ack2:

 

I must imagine the student materials are no better. I am holding my breath.

One can only hope.

 

I hate to be a downer but I don't think one can make the assumption that the LA schools will carry the full load in terms of teaching phonetic spelling. Seems unlikely.

 

Bill

ITA.

[Roadrunner]

The Los Angeles schools have been using "Open Court" for the past 7 years. It definitely has a phonics base, along with some high-frequency "sight-words."

 

But the run of "Open Court" is over in 2 days as a new program will be used come next Fall called "California Treasures." I got a brief look at the program this week (and groaned). There still seems to be a phonics base (which is good) but the Teachers materials (all I saw, and First Grade only) were so "busy" with side-bars and idea-bubbles and info-arrows and other such distracting element in garish colors that I got sea-sick.

 

I must imagine the student materials are no better. I am holding my breath.

 

I hate to be a downer but I don't think one can make the assumption that the LA schools will carry the full load in terms of teaching phonetic spelling. Seems unlikely.

 

Bill

 

When my kid started K last year, they tested him and decided to start sending 3rd grade language arts homework. We saw Open Court books twice. The rest of the year the teacher used SRA McGrow Hill series. I hated them. Stories were O.K. The questions were confusing even for me. There was no system to the madness. It would introduce a topic randomly and by the time we saw it again (maybe three month down), he had no recollection of it. I asked for more Open Court books, but was told SRA was great and at his level. So I gave up. I don't seem to get any clear answers when I ask about specifics of the curriculum. I am anxious about next year and trying to first identify gaps in order to close them. It should be an easy task, but it's not :).

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Got it! English is a 4th language for both my husband and me, .

 

Cool! What other languages do you speak? And what is the language spoken at home? Having knowledge of other languages will reduce the need for English phonics/grammar. We are French speakers at home. I have never taught my kids to read in English, only in French. One day they picked up an English book, and with 5 minutes of coaching, they were off and reading. By knowing how to write in French, they don't need English spelling. We'll catch the odd mistake once in a while, and correct that one when it arises.

 

I'm not a random case, this is a well known fact in bilingual families. Teach to read and write in the easiest language, the most phonetic one, and most of that work will transfer to English. (assuming the kids are English speakers too, and not ESL kids)

[Spy Car]

We are on the central coast. When my kid started K last year, they tested him and decided to start sending 3rd grade language arts homework. We saw Open Court books twice. The rest of the year the teacher used SRA McGrow Hill series. I hated them. Stories were O.K. The questions were confusing even for me. There was no system to the madness. It would introduce a topic randomly and by the time we saw it again (maybe three month down), he had no recollection of it. I asked for more Open Court books, but was told SRA was great and at his level. So I gave up. I don't seem to get any clear answers when I ask about specifics of the curriculum. I am anxious about next year and trying to first identify gaps in order to close them. It should be an easy task, but it's not :).

 

For phonics-spelling I have heard good things about "Megawords" (which is currently my Plan A once we finish up Explode the Code). It seems to be pretty efficient program for after-schooling. Spelling is a subject I want to treat as a "gap-filler" rather than a topic of emphasis, so I hope (and have reason to believe) Megawords will fill the bill.

 

For general Language Arts I'm about to order the MCT (Michael Clay Thompson) materials. I have never seen anything else like them and have been excited for years to start. With my rising 2nd Grader it will be "early" starting MCT now, but we will take it at our pace. No Language Arts program I've ever seen has the depth of MCT and I love the approach.

 

Bill

[La Condessa]

I can only speak to my personal experience as a student at CA schools and that of my younger brothers, but it our district (Poway) there was some phonics in K while learning to read, but none at all when it came to learning spelling. Spelling was purely lists of words to memorize.

[Ellie]

We are on the central coast. When my kid started K last year, they tested him and decided to start sending 3rd grade language arts homework. We saw Open Court books twice. The rest of the year the teacher used SRA McGrow Hill series. I hated them. Stories were O.K. The questions were confusing even for me. There was no system to the madness. It would introduce a topic randomly and by the time we saw it again (maybe three month down), he had no recollection of it. I asked for more Open Court books, but was told SRA was great and at his level. So I gave up. I don't seem to get any clear answers when I ask about specifics of the curriculum. I am anxious about next year and trying to first identify gaps in order to close them. It should be an easy task, but it's not :).

And I'll bet that's what happens in most CA schools-just enough "phonics" to say it's being taught, sight-reading the rest of the time.

 

You'll want to ask about instructional materials, not "curriculum." They can just point you to the state standards for "curriculum," which is what that word really means. You want to see the actual instructional materials being used in the classroom.

 

However, you won't be able to see the teacher's manuals and whatnot, and that's where you can *really* tell what's being taught. :glare:

[Roadrunner]

I will check out Megawords. We are also planning on MTC. :) Love the vocab study and poetry!

 

Cleo, our kids only speak English. We were so scared they would be labeled English learners at school (and thrown into "special" classes) that we opted not to teach them other languages. Big mistake. Between my husband and I, we speak. .........fluently. Some spanish as well :) We will probably start French with kids this coming year. Our school systems teaches them Spanish, but so far the language learning has been limited to few songs.

[Spy Car]

I will check out Megawords. We are also planning on MTC. :) Love the vocab study and poetry!

 

 

I know that Moira (Nmoira) uses (and likes) Megawords. I remember years ago when she was the only person I knew on this forum using MCT and I swooned after learning about it from her. I have spent years now being (im)patient, and in the intervention of time MCT has become very popular on this forum.

 

I have come to rely on her recommendations as the "gold standard" for being the sorts of materials I will like, and this has been proven to me time and again. I have also looked through samples and Megawords looks like just the thing for this purpose.

 

Besides, you need the time for teaching Arabic, Russian and French (figuring Georgian might have to slide :tongue_smilie:).

 

Bill

[Roadrunner]

Besides, you need the time for teaching Arabic, Russian and French (figuring Georgian might have to slide :tongue_smilie:).

 

Bill

 

 

Ironically it's the language that I would really like them to understand. Sentimental value :001_smile:

We are also drooling over MTC.

[Daisy]

My husband teaches first grade here, in CA. I can't remember the name of his curriculum but it is terrible. He hates it. I know they used to have Open Court but I'm not sure they still do as it seems they get new curriculum more often than I do.

 

He says it teaches basic sounds and that is about it. That is their idea of phonics. They assume everything else is picked up intuitively. They don't really push sight words either. Basically it is junk. Terrible stories, too. Sorry, but that is how my husband feels about it.

 

The three big goals by end of first grade school year are...

 

1. Able to read beginner chapter books.

2. Know their math facts to 20.

3. Be able to write 2-4 sentences on a topic such as "My Favorite Book." (without perfect spelling or punctuation).

 

Hubby just texted me and said they use Pearson.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Daisy

[Spy Car]

Ironically it's the Georgian language that I would really like them to understand. Sentimental value :001_smile:

We are also drooling over MTC.

 

I figured it was (since you listed it first ;)).

 

So what are you going to scratch, the language of the imperialist-opressors? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Here is a link to the new LAUSD program "California Treasures"

 

http://www.califtreasures.com/glencoe-california-treasures/english-language-development-program.php

 

Bill

[Roadrunner]

I figured it was (since you listed it first ;)).

 

So what are you going to scratch, the language of the imperialist-opressors? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

Of course!

[Spy Car]

Of course! As much as I love Russian literature and music, it is one language I don't want my kids to have anything to do with. :001_smile:

 

Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Puskin, Gogol, Turgenev, Bulgakov, Zinoviev, Pasternak, Chekov, Voinovich, Solzhenitsyn.....no great loss :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

[Roadrunner]

...

[jenbrdsly]

Here is a link to the new LAUSD program "California Treasures"

 

http://www.califtreasures.com/glencoe-california-treasures/english-language-development-program.php

 

Bill

 

That doesn't look too promising. It bugs me too when textbook programs highlight the online/tech component of their program, because most districts will struggle with finding the money to purchase the books, let alone all of the computer items to go with them.

 

Our district (Pacific NW) uses Benchmark Literacy http://www.benchmarkeducation.com/

which does have a lot of direct instruction in phonics. But the problem is our district can't afford to buy the whole program at once, so we have to buy it in three phases. They did buy the phonics kit first however.

 

This doesn't much help my K son however, because he already entered Kindergarten reading. That's the way to go.

[Spy Car]

There is amazing Georgian literature. Who knows, maybe one day my kids will translate it into English :)

Dostoyevsky was my childhood favorite. I devoured his books. My grandmother used to tell me: "I understand he is an incredible talented writer. But my dear, he is a sick, sick, sick man. How can you read his books!" :)

 

My mother was also disapproving of my passion for Dostoyevsky :D

 

I have a feeling that is beyond envy that you could read in the original language. What a treat that must be!

 

I do hope those amazing Georgian Works get translated into English.

 

Bill

[Roadrunner]

.

[mich311e]

This doesn't much help my K son however, because he already entered Kindergarten reading. That's the way to go.

 

:iagree:

[Spy Car]

Yes it is. But so is the ability to read Marquez in Spanish and Thomas Mann in Germain. The list goes on. With an exception of few (I had a friend in grad school who spoke 9 languages and quoted in perfect Georgian 12th century poetry from Rustaveli. I was floored), we will have to pick :)

 

back to school. Which subject would you recommend NOT to afterschool?

 

What NOT to after-school? What a question :D

 

For me is is down to my practicalities (which are very different than yours).

 

I, for example, have had to give up my notions of studying Arabic with my son. My knowledge is too rudimentary, and while I know the characters well enough that I can "read" and "write" at a very basic level, the grammar and vocabularly (beyond my stock of retained social "pleasantries") have faded. We have a friend I had hoped to "exchange" lessons from her in MSA and Leventine dialect with my son and me, for lessons (by me) with her son in math and English. No time.

 

My feeling is there are two absolutely necessary subjects. Math that is taught in an intellectually interesting and deep fashion, and English language that is taught in a similar fashion. With both subjects I want to teach the "grammar" in a way the schools will not.

 

We are a family of readers so literature, history, and any subject that might catch his fancy in the future I take (to some degree) as a "given." He will have the skills for self study. But it is easy to get through public schools without understanding either the grammar of math or English (and get good grades in the process). So those will be the areas I want to get "out front" of the schools and give special attention.

 

We are already so far out there with math that his school work is "review" at best.

 

With MCT I hope to inspire a love of language (along with an appreciation of the grammar, vocabulary and poetics) that will spill over into the writing work he will be require to do for school in any case. The writing requirements at our school, which is one of the highest performing in the district, are pretty extensive. But I hope the writing assignments will supplement (and serve as practice for) the education he gets at home, rather than vice-versa.

 

Bill

Edited June 23, 2011 by Spy Car

[Roadrunner]

Thanks Bill.

We are right there with you. Running a year ahead in math and 2+ years ahead in English. I didn't realize schools didn't teach grammar separately, so we are now doing everything at home. There has got to be a subject schools teach well, but I have yet to find it :)

We have been debating the language learning for some time. I think we are going to wait till middle school years and just do a study abroad program for kids to really master the language + private tutoring. Probably the easiest and quickest way to learn a language. So for now, SM, GWG and winning with writing + story of the world. MTC in Feb. on his birthday :) Thanks everybody!

[Crimson Wife]

Our district uses Houghton-Mifflin Reading, which looks like a mix of phonics and :glare: "whole language". I do know that they encourage the use of "invented spelling" :ack2: in the primary grades.

[Ellie]

Our district uses Houghton-Mifflin Reading, which looks like a mix of phonics and :glare: "whole language". I do know that they encourage the use of "invented spelling" :ack2: in the primary grades.

Whole language has been an epic failure since around 1987. How sad to think of the generations of lost literacy. :(

 

On a slight rabbit trail, many of those students have grown up to be homeschooling parents who want a better education for their children but whose philosophies of education still reflect things like cursive writing being optional--a small thing, to be sure, but something which still affects literacy and is the result of their own poor education.

[ElizabethB]

Open Court is true phonics; I'm glad to hear that at least some school districts have come to their senses.:thumbup1:

 

 

Sadly, the new Open Court is more towards balanced literacy. The old Open Court is great!

 

The new Open Court teaches a lot of sight words. It does have phonics, though.

[jenbrdsly]

Sadly, the new Open Court is more towards balanced literacy. The old Open Court is great!

 

The new Open Court teaches a lot of sight words. It does have phonics, though.

 

Here is what my experience was like teaching with the old Open Court. Sadly, it was not the magical answer for failing schools. http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/ravenswood/open-court/

[Julie in CA]

I can only speak to my personal experience as a student at CA schools and that of my younger brothers, but it our district (Poway) there was some phonics in K while learning to read, but none at all when it came to learning spelling. Spelling was purely lists of words to memorize.

Hey, I grew up in Poway too!

Ironically, my parents moved our family to Poway because of the great schools.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I know it says that, but in practice, it mostly turns out to be sight reading with some phonics thrown in.

 

I can only speak to my personal experience as a student at CA schools and that of my younger brothers, but it our district (Poway) there was some phonics in K while learning to read, but none at all when it came to learning spelling. Spelling was purely lists of words to memorize.

 

:iagree:This is my experience as well. I went to K-6 in CA, 7th & 8th doing PACE at a Private Christian School in AK, and then back to CA for high school. When I took the placement test for PACE, it put me in 4th grade spelling & English :eek: Reading in my CA district was almost all sight reading. I remember hearing from teachers how phonics were bad. I learned to read in kindergarten (most kids didn't) but to this day I remain a HORRIBLE speller.

 

My husband teaches first grade here, in CA. I can't remember the name of his curriculum but it is terrible. He hates it. I know they used to have Open Court but I'm not sure they still do as it seems they get new curriculum more often than I do.

 

He says it teaches basic sounds and that is about it. That is their idea of phonics. They assume everything else is picked up intuitively. They don't really push sight words either. Basically it is junk. Terrible stories, too. Sorry, but that is how my husband feels about it.

 

The three big goals by end of first grade school year are...

 

1. Able to read beginner chapter books.

2. Know their math facts to 20.

3. Be able to write 2-4 sentences on a topic such as "My Favorite Book." (without perfect spelling or punctuation).

 

Hubby just texted me and said they use Pearson.

 

This is the goal of the end of First grade?! :svengo: I was worried about my friend's daughter who is starting ps kindergarten this year, and now I'm terrified!

[Spy Car]

This is the goal of the end of First grade?! :svengo: I was worried about my friend's daughter who is starting ps kindergarten this year, and now I'm terrified!

 

This does not represent what children at my son's school were expected to know at the end of First Grade, not by a long-shot. I'm quite familiar with the standards being the parent of a child who just finished First Grade.

 

Bill

[Hen]

Road Runner,

 

I am in awe of your language abilities! I'm wishing you were my neighbor, my dd, Larissa is trying to learn Russian. She is using Rosetta Stone and Russian Face to face, but we have only gotten half-way through the book, because not knowing Russian, I cannot help her with it. My goal now is to send her to spend next summer in Russia.

 

how wonderful that you speak so many languages, your kids will be blessed by it! :001_smile:

[Roadrunner]

Road Runner,

 

I am in awe of your language abilities! I'm wishing you were my neighbor, my dd, Larissa is trying to learn Russian. She is using Rosetta Stone and Russian Face to face, but we have only gotten half-way through the book, because not knowing Russian, I cannot help her with it. My goal now is to send her to spend next summer in Russia.

 

how wonderful that you speak so many languages, your kids will be blessed by it! :001_smile:

 

A summer in Russia will do the trick. We are about 6-7 hours drive from you, otherwise I could have tutored her. See if you can find some Russian speaking kids around. Local Orthodox church maybe a good place to start.

[Hen]

Thanks RR, :001_smile:

 

ah, never thought about looking for an orthodox church..hmmm, you've got me thinking. Our church has a Bible school in Moscow, so about twice a year we have the chance to have Russians stay with us for two weeks. At Christmas time a Russian dad helped her get about half-way through the Face to Face book.

 

We are seriously planning to send her next Summer back with Russians who will be out here for a Bible conference and have her stay 2 months. Longer would be good, but I think she will get very homesick. One of us will go collect her, hopefully me! :D I am dying to see the Red square.

[Roadrunner]

Thanks RR, :001_smile:

 

ah, never thought about looking for an orthodox church..hmmm, you've got me thinking. Our church has a Bible school in Moscow, so about twice a year we have the chance to have Russians stay with us for two weeks. At Christmas time a Russian dad helped her get about half-way through the Face to Face book.

 

We are seriously planning to send her next Summer back with Russians who will be out here for a Bible conference and have her stay 2 months. Longer would be good, but I think she will get very homesick. One of us will go collect her, hopefully me! :D I am dying to see the Red square.

 

 

That's wonderful.

Moscow is interesting, but my mom says St. Petersburg is stunning. I have never been, but if you manage it, it's worth visiting.

[Caroline]

That's wonderful.

Moscow is interesting, but my mom says St. Petersburg is stunning. I have never been, but if you manage it, it's worth visiting.

 

I visited St. Petersburg when it was Leningrad in 1989. I agree with your mom, it is stunning.