The Inquisition

[Kate in Arabia]

Does anyone else "add back in" the Inquisition to SOTW 2? I've read the brief note as to why it isn't included in the book, but I disagree and felt that it was better to include at least a basic mention. I'm not making it a focus or anything, lol, but I took a small essay I found online on the history and printed that out for ds 10 to read over. I mean, I feel like we've covered similarly disturbing material throughout our history studies, as long as we don't harp on the violence, and it is mentioned in some of our supplementary readings...

 

Am I the only one?

 

Kate

[Guest Amy in MS]

Hi Kate,

No, you're not the only one. I plan on addressing it with my second grader. We talked about how Christians were persecuted in Rome. I think it's only fitting to show that Christians have killed and persecuted others too. It's the story of religion/humanity, I think.

Amy

[nmoira]

I plan to... but I haven't yet researched materials. I'd be happy to see any suggestions people might have.

[Jenny in Atl]

I do; I even found a couple movies (Goya's Ghosts was one) to watch on the subject. It's important to me to show the girls that all humans (especially groups) have the capacity to do great harm as well as good.

 

Here is another link but you would need to adjust for age.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/inquisition1.html

[MySerenity]

See... now I don't plan too. I'm going to wait until the next cycle comes around to actually address that. But then I'll have a pretty young second grader. He'll be 6 next February and he's accelerated to the point where he can do the work and understand it... but I don't want to have to try and explain what was going on during the Inquisition.

[Nestof3]

I didn't know the Spanish Insquisition was taken out. Thanks for letting me know, because I'd like to educate my boys about it. I'll have to read why it was taken out, because I agree that Romans persecuting Christians and Jews persecuting Christ are just as disturbing to me, but I think they can be told in a way that is proper for a younger audience.

 

What I do make sure I take out of any book is a reverential view of Christopher Columbus. And, what I cannot take is the way the slaves in the D'Aullaire books seem so happy about their condition. I only ever see praise in regard to these history books, but I made sure I told the slave's side when I was reading George Washington.

[Kate in Arabia]

I plan to... but I haven't yet researched materials. I'd be happy to see any suggestions people might have.

 

Well, all I did for this go 'round (my kids are 10 and 6) is to take this summary:

 

http://www.crf-usa.org/bria/bria9_1.htm

 

and put it into MS Publisher, add some pics and print out. It's at a good level for my oldest, no details about torture or whatever and the writing level is good for him. My caveat is that I am not familiar with this whole website, so read/use at your own risk..

 

Kate

[Plaid Dad]

Kate, I don't know how much you want to "teach the conflicts" to your dc, but I offer this article as a counterpoint to the one you linked to. It is based on the most recent research on the period, corrects a number of common misconceptions about the Inquisition, and tries (largely) to avoid the polemical language that characterizes so many discussions of the period. It also deals with the very difficult question of the conversos.

 

I don't know who the author of the article you linked to is, but Thomas Madden is the chair of the history department at St. Louis University and an expert on the Crusades. I would not claim that his article is totally unbiased - SLU is a Catholic institution - but it is (imo) far more informative and balanced than what you linked to. YMMV, of course.

[Kate in Arabia]

Thanks, Drew, I have little knowledge about the authors of the other, I just did a Google search.. will check out your link as well..

 

Kate

[Kay in Cal]

I didn't know it wasn't included, and will want to cover it somehow. What chapter would you link it with?

 

Thanks!

[G5052]

History in general of course has it's biases, but I've found that church history is particularly rife with a lot of mis-information that requires some parental study if you're going to present it fairly and in light of your own tradition and beliefs. I personally don't think it's wrong to show the different viewpoints and choices that some religious groups made that conflict with what we believe.

 

When we were studying the Reformation, I was truly shocked at how hard it was to sort through things. We are of dispensational, anabaptist belief and don't fit on either of the major "sides" (i.e. Catholic and Reformed) that are presented in most resources. We also have a lot of Catholic and Reformed friends who clarified things that were downright wrong in some of the resources we used. And I read writers of our viewpoint. So in the end, I think we balanced out the Reformation pretty well but I still found it far more complicated than most children's books present.

 

Then lately in our studies we just passed the early settles in America and attempted to wrestle with their beliefs in light of our own despite some of the conflicting views we read. It was interesting, to say the least. None of them were saints of course, but we admired their determination and courage even when they did things that weren't fair to others who didn't believe like they did!

[Chris in VA]

I love hearing your perspectives, Nest. I just went thru some material on Christopher Columbus with dd--both SOTW and another resource. I know Columbus and his men did some really terrible things--but what I liked about the story we read was that they mention that Columbus journalled that he felt called by God to spread the Gospel. It goes on to say how he initially responded to that call, but his greed and love of power caused great harm and destruction. I thought it interesting how the author (Marshall) said it was Columbus' sin that led to that harm. Sort of an acknowledgement that he did some great things, and some awful things, too.

Anyway, I appreciate hearing how you do things.

[Faithr]

Thank you, Drew, for the link to the article. Very interesting!

[Plaid Dad]

I do wish there were a good collection of primary source materials for these topics suitable for younger children. Something like this, but in greater detail, would be nice.

 

I took a whole graduate course on Early Modern European views of the Americas when I was studying in Germany. We read Columbus's own journals and letters, and I came away with a much different (and I should add, rather more favorable) view of him from what I had got from my history books in the U.S. I had not realized how devout he was, nor how many of the evils attributed to him were actually crimes committed by his crew - acts he mourned over and punished the offenders for severely. (I'm thinking specifically of crew members who violated native women against Columbus's express orders.)

 

You'd be hard pressed to find any historical person whose character was spotless (although some of us would make an exception for one person there!), and I certainly wouldn't claim that for Columbus. But it was very enlightening for me to have the chance to judge for myself rather than having someone else's interpretation spoon-fed to me. That's a big challenge with young children and perhaps it can't be done effectively at all. But I can still wish, right?

[Nestof3]

I know Columbus and his men did some really terrible things--but what I liked about the story we read was that they mention that Columbus journalled that he felt called by God to spread the Gospel. It goes on to say how he initially responded to that call, but his greed and love of power caused great harm and destruction. I thought it interesting how the author (Marshall) said it was Columbus' sin that led to that harm. Sort of an acknowledgement that he did some great things, and some awful things, too.

 

 

You'd be hard pressed to find any historical person whose character was spotless (although some of us would make an exception for one person there!), and I certainly wouldn't claim that for Columbus. But it was very enlightening for me to have the chance to judge for myself rather than having someone else's interpretation spoon-fed to me. That's a big challenge with young children and perhaps it can't be done effectively at all. But I can still wish, right?

 

I agree. And that's what I like about authors who shed light on the good and bad rather than just the good. I think all of us can learn from the positive as well as the negative character traits in someone. Even today, many people start out with a noble mission, but soon find themselves in the midst of deceit, greed, etc. I love discussing these things with my children.

[starlashine]

Does anyone know of books that discuss the inquisition?

[Nestof3]

Our library has this movie:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Cedric-Jaclyn-Blumas-Shannon-Bockstael/dp/B000F0UQXQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1211137715&sr=1-4

 

This book mentions it in four pages:

http://www.amazon.com/If-You-Were-There-1492/dp/0689822413/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211138012&sr=1-4

 

I haven't found much.

 

Or perhaps this:

 

http://www.karben.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=263

[Susie in SWVA]

My son (age 9) and I read the book The Spanish Brothers by Deborah Alcock together. Excellent book! I highly reccommend all of her books.

 

Susie in SWVA

[mcconnellboys]

No, we read it, too, through library books that we use when we're covering that time period.

[nmoira]

Does anyone know of books that discuss the inquisition?

I know this is an older thread, but we're currently reading The Magician's Apprentice by Sidney Rosen. It's probably not appropriate for most grammar stage students, but I wouldn't characterize it as appropriate for Gr. 7-9 as did the first editorial review on the Amazon page; Gr. 4 or 5 and up might be better.

 

Here's the synopsis:

 

A French abbey and an English university in the thirteenth century provide unusual settings for this historical novel. An orphan educated at a Franciscan abbey in Toulouse, 15-year-old Jean is accused of having a heretical document in his possession. The Grand Inquisitor drops the charge on the condition that Jean perform an unusual penance: spy on Roger Bacon, the English scientist, and find proof that he practices black magic. Enrolled as a student at Oxford, Jean takes a job in Bacon's infamous laboratory, becomes a trusted assistant, and soon must choose where his loyalties lie.

Enough liberty was taken with the history, that I probably wouldn't use this if it were not for the dearth of material. Bacon was not tried by the Inquisition, but rather by his own order. The authors do make clear this in the forward, however.

[alpidarkomama]

Jews persecuting Christ are just as disturbing to me

 

Huh???

[nmoira]

Here's a book about to be published: Tomas De Toquemada: Architect of Torture During the Spanish Inquisition. It's from a Scholastic series called Wicked History, and if the books we already have (Hannibal, Mary Tudor, Genghis Khan, Henry VIII) are any indication, the contents, while sometimes a bit gorey, are not nearly so sensational as the cover would have you believe. I'm reasonably sure neither of the, ummm, reviewers have read the book. I linked Hannibal above because there's a "Look Inside" which will give you a feel for the books.

 

Despite what the Scholastic blurb says, I'd say these are for non-sensitive upper elementary and middle school children.

[Alessandra]

Perhaps a slightly different perspective -- but my dc loved Verdi's Don Carlo beginning in about 1st grade.

[lionfamily1999]

We read Columbus's own journals and letters, and I came away with a much different (and I should add, rather more favorable) view of him from what I had got from my history books in the U.S. I had not realized how devout he was, nor how many of the evils attributed to him were actually crimes committed by his crew - acts he mourned over and punished the offenders for severely. (I'm thinking specifically of crew members who violated native women against Columbus's express orders.)

 

You'd be hard pressed to find any historical person whose character was spotless (although some of us would make an exception for one person there!), and I certainly wouldn't claim that for Columbus. But it was very enlightening for me to have the chance to judge for myself rather than having someone else's interpretation spoon-fed to me. That's a big challenge with young children and perhaps it can't be done effectively at all. But I can still wish, right?

I took American Literature and American History last fall and I was surprised by the difference between Columbus' views and the way the history book portrayed it. He really believed he was doing God's work and he was not the heartless racist bigot he was made out to be, at all.

[Orthodox6]

Interesting thread ! All the more supportive evidence for reading history from assorted perspectives, when possible.

 

Over in our [Orthodox] corner, we always are squirming or growling when reading the typical descriptions of the Crusades -- descriptions which skip over the wanton destruction -- by invading Christians -- of Orthodox churches.

 

"Good job !" to parents who take the time to locate materials which present history from the multiple viewpoints necessary.

[Karen in CO]

We discuss it when we talk about Joan of Arc and Galileo. We also discuss it when we talk about Ferdinand & Isabella. I haven't covered it in great depth yet, but we haven't finished SOTW2 yet either - maybe this year. Maybe not, but I didn't shy away from it when it came up, and I didn't drag out illustrated volumes and descriptions either.

[BillieBoy]

Not a book but for any United Streaming/Discovery Education users there is an interesting docudrama called Royal Diaries: Isabel: Jewel of Castilla, Spain, 1466

[nmoira]

 

Not a book but for any United Streaming/Discovery Education users there is an interesting docudrama called Royal Diaries: Isabel: Jewel of Castilla, Spain, 1466

This is also a book. The Spanish Inquisition is mentioned, though I don't recall in how great a depth.

[stripe]

Thanks for the great information on this thread. I agree with you, Kate, that this is a worthwhile issue to be discussed.

 

There are some books / articles on the Moriscos from Spain that you might find interesting. Goodword (yes, that Goodword) (re?)published one by Henry Charles Lea; unfortunately at 400+ pages, it might be way.too.much. I'd imagine (hope?) there has to be something in general books about Al Andalus.

[Nestof3]

I read this book aloud, and my boys loved it.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Swords-Granada-Walter-Myers/dp/0823416763/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247978017&sr=1-1

 

It is fictitious in that the characters are cats (Moorish Granada) who are defending themselves from Fidorean guards -- dogs (Spanish Castile).

 

The book takes place in the early 1400's so at that point the Moors were still holding off the Spanish, but we talked about the eventual Spanish conquest, 1492, Ferdinand and Isabella, etc. It was a great discussion, and because the book involved animals, there was emotion, but not too much for a younger audience.

 

From Publishers Weekly

Myers (Monster) shifts gears to offer younger readers an entertaining swashbuckler set in 1420 Spain. The author sets up the conflict between the Moors and the Catholics in a way that the audience can understand easily: cats versus dogs. In cat-dominated Mùlaga, which Speirs s (The Little Boy s Christmas Gift) charming pen-and-ink and wash drawings depict as an intimate seaside town, a trio of young feline friends, Askia, Poco and lovely Lacy, confront a pair of Fidorean Guards, part of a larger canine group attempting to seize control of their city. It soon becomes clear that the dogs intend to take Granada and thereby capture Spain. Painting the enemy as a troupe of burly curs gives Myers ample opportunity to launch a plethora of comical quotes (e.g., We will not let the glories of our kingdom go to the dogs, cries their leader, Pietro). His three heroines contribute mightily to the cats united efforts to secure Spain s safety, and their viewpoint keeps the historic struggle in terms to which youngsters can relate. The action culminates at the Alhambra, the palace of the Moors and the sacred home of the cats. Colorful characters on the sidelines (Romulus the rat, who is almost as wide as he was tall; a company of gypsy cats that the threesome meets on the road to Granada) add extra depth and breadth. Readers will likely have so much fun that they may not realize how much history they are learning along the way. Ages 7-10.

 

[iwka]

It is very interesting to look through history schoolbooks in different countries. Every nation has their own view, no matter how democratic and free they are. Propaganda is everywhere...:glare: Smaller countries seem to be more fair in their views on history.

 

I was shocked the day we came from the Middle East (the day after bombing Iraq) and seeing unanimous opinions on US TV about the war. We couldn't even talk to people around for the first month or so. It was great to observe people's reactions... I thought most of the Americans bought easily what was served and were pretty well brain washed...(don't hate me).

 

All of this just to say that it is great to have google and know another language so you can get familiarized with other opinions, facts and theories.

[JudyJudyJudy]

To answer the original question, I did cover the Inquisition to some extent. However, my son is extraordinarily sensitive, so I wasn't able to give a lot of details. I talked more in general. We'll cover this more in depth in the next cycle.

 

 

It is very interesting to look through history schoolbooks in different countries. Every nation has their own view, no matter how democratic and free they are. Propaganda is everywhere...:glare: Smaller countries seem to be more fair in their views on history.

 

I was shocked the day we came from the Middle East (the day after bombing Iraq) and seeing unanimous opinions on US TV about the war. We couldn't even talk to people around for the first month or so. It was great to observe people's reactions... I thought most of the Americans bought easily what was served and were pretty well brain washed...(don't hate me).

 

All of this just to say that it is great to have google and know another language so you can get familiarized with other opinions, facts and theories.

I'm not sure whether or not I'm understanding you. I might buy that most (at least "many") Americans believed the government on this issue, but I know that there were still a very large percentage of Americans who did not; so I'm not understanding the "unanimous opinions" of which you speak. I guess we weren't watching the same TV stations or reading the same articles.

 

As for your first paragraph, I truly would love to be able to read the history books from many different countries to see the viewpoints. I agree that history is written in a biased manner by whoever is doing the writing.

[iwka]

I'm not sure whether or not I'm understanding you. I might buy that most (at least "many") Americans believed the government on this issue, but I know that there were still a very large percentage of Americans who did not; so I'm not understanding the "unanimous opinions" of which you speak. I guess we weren't watching the same TV stations or reading the same articles.

 

As for your first paragraph, I truly would love to be able to read the history books from many different countries to see the viewpoints. I agree that history is written in a biased manner by whoever is doing the writing.

 

Maybe that was the South? We stayed in the deep South whenever we arrived. The emotions were running high and people acted very patriotic and wanted to free poor Iraqi people. Our opinion was: oil (trying to explain the dynamics of the crisis from the region's perspective was fruitless). By the way, even people in the Middle East thought then that US had credible reasons to attack Afganistan (although they did not like it of course.)

 

As far as I remember most of the main TV stations talked only about freeing Iraq form Saddam and weapons of mass dist. in the first month or so. But we might of watched different tv...:-) EU's view *talkin about the people, not governments) was more cautious from the very beginning.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I live in the Deep South, and, yes, I'll agree with you that the attitude you're describing was prevalent here. However, my online friends who are from other parts of the US had entirely different attitudes, and many of the news shows I watched displayed different views as well.