Here's one for the athiests:

[Jenny in Florida]

Full disclosure: I am not an athiest, more of a non-traditional religious agnostic. But I thought this piece might be of interest.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-americans-still-dislike-atheists/2011/02/18/AFqgnwGF_story.html

 

"On basic questions of morality and human decency — issues such as governmental use of torture, the death penalty, punitive hitting of children, racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, environmental degradation or human rights — the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious. "

[newlifemom]

Interesting.

 

I have not done formal logic with the kids, but doesn't the author make a jump at the end of the first paragraph. I'm not sure I followed him/her(?) [sorry, didn't pay attention to who wrote it.]

[Stacia]

Excellent article!

 

Thanks for posting it.

 

:001_smile:

[Lady Florida.]

Thank you for posting. :001_smile:

[stephanier.1765]

Funny...I was just thinking about this topic yesterday after finding a purse sitting in a cart outside Target. Yes, an atheist can pick up a lost purse, walk it directly to the customer service area and make sure that it is locked into a safe without the first thought of keeping it for myself.

 

It truly is a shame that some people can think so little of other people simply because they do not believe in a god.

[Satori]

Thanks for sharing!

[leeannpal]

Funny...I was just thinking about this topic yesterday after finding a purse sitting in a cart outside Target. Yes, an atheist can pick up a lost purse, walk it directly to the customer service area and make sure that it is locked into a safe without the first thought of keeping it for myself.

 

It truly is a shame that some people can think so little of other people simply because they do not believe in a god.

 

It is also equally a shame that people can think so little of others because they do believe in God.

 

Personally, I have friends who are atheist and agnostic. I respect their choices, but we do sometimes talk about religion. I've met other atheist that are pushy, to say the least. I understand trying to explain what you believe to another person or even trying to persuade the person to change his or her beliefs. But, I've been called ignorant, an idiot, brainless and a fanatic by atheists on another message board that I used to frequent. Their general attitude was that if you are religious you must be brainwashed, uneducated and have no idea how to think for yourself. Since I am none of the above, it tends to irk me.

 

Americans have the tendency to not like others who are different from themselves, whether religious or not. If you ask atheist what their opinion is of evangelical Christians, for example, you may find that, as a group, they fell much the same way as atheists are described in the article.

[catz]

Excellent article!

 

Thanks for posting it.

 

:001_smile:

 

Yes - thank you!

[Mejane]

Yes, I've seen that view before. As an agnostic, I'd like to believe it's true. ;)

[Desert Rat]

Thanks for posting!

[Lovedtodeath]

Full disclosure: I am not an athiest, more of a non-traditional religious agnostic. But I thought this piece might be of interest.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-americans-still-dislike-atheists/2011/02/18/AFqgnwGF_story.html

 

"On basic questions of morality and human decency — issues such as governmental use of torture, the death penalty, punitive hitting of children, racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, environmental degradation or human rights — the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious."

This is odd. Who is deciding what is more ethical?

[Heather in Neverland]

This is odd. Who is deciding what is more ethical?

 

:iagree:

 

If there is no ultimate standard against which we measure ourselves, then morals are basically decided by majority rule. If the larger percentage of the population thinks a certain thing is good (or bad) then it is. And how fickle we humans can be.

 

The first thing that popped in my mind when reading the thread so far is: why WOULDN'T an atheist take a lost purse back into the store in hopes of finding the owner? It had never occured to me that they wouldn't.:huh:

 

I do not think of atheists as "immoral" people simply because they are atheists. That's just... odd.

[Lovedtodeath]

The first thing that popped in my mind when reading the thread so far is: why WOULDN'T an atheist take a lost purse back into the store in hopes of finding the owner? It had never occured to me that they wouldn't.

I think people do things like this because they have empathy, religious or not.

[stephanier.1765]

:iagree:

 

If there is no ultimate standard against which we measure ourselves, then morals are basically decided by majority rule. If the larger percentage of the population thinks a certain thing is good (or bad) then it is. And how fickle we humans can be.

 

The first thing that popped in my mind when reading the thread so far is: why WOULDN'T an atheist take a lost purse back into the store in hopes of finding the owner? It had never occured to me that they wouldn't.:huh:

 

I do not think of atheists as "immoral" people simply because they are atheists. That's just... odd.

 

Unfortunately, there are people out there who do. I've encountered them and it's hurtful. That's why I always think of them whenever I behave in way they believe impossible. They truly believe that because I don't believe in God that there is nothing keeping me from behaving immorally or unethically. I don't understand that mindset but it's there. I am not surprised at all that you don't think that way. Your posts are always positive and kind. :001_smile: I truly wish those folks I've met IRL could be so.

[Desert Rat]

Yes, I agree. I've been told many times that there is no way I could raise moral children outside the confines of a religion, specifically Christian. When they see my kind, considerate, generous children, I hope I've proven them wrong.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Yes, I agree. I've been told many times that there is no way I could raise moral children outside the confines of a religion, specifically Christian. When they see my kind, considerate, generous children, I hope I've proven them wrong.

Well, since we have been searching for most of my DDs life we have taught her very very little about the Bible, so I hope that isn't true.

[Heather in Neverland]

Unfortunately, there are people out there who do. I've encountered them and it's hurtful. That's why I always think of them whenever I behave in way they believe impossible. They truly believe that because I don't believe in God that there is nothing keeping me from behaving immorally or unethically. I don't understand that mindset but it's there. I am not surprised at all that you don't think that way. Your posts are always positive and kind. :001_smile: I truly wish those folks I've met IRL could be so.

 

Well it's like this: The Bible puts forth a standard for morality that Christians are expected to follow (although I know there are some debates as to the nuances). Society in general also has a standard for morality that most people agree to (although the differences tend to be more than just nuances and the gray areas are much larger).

 

It just so happens that much of what society thinks is moral behavior also falls under the moral behavior definition for Christians. So the idea that you cannot possibly raise your children as moral people (according to society's standards of morals) unless you are a Christian is patently false.

 

For instance, Christians believe murder is wrong. So does society in general. Christians believe child pornography is wrong. So does society in general. Etc. Are there moral issues over which Christians and society in general disagree? Of course.

 

But to say "you can't be moral unless you are a christian" shows a person's ignorance about what morals and ethics truly are. And it shows their own profound ignorance about what Christianity is.

 

:grouphug:

[micheller1]

 

 

The first thing that popped in my mind when reading the thread so far is: why WOULDN'T an atheist take a lost purse back into the store in hopes of finding the owner? It had never occured to me that they wouldn't.:huh:

 

I do not think of atheists as "immoral" people simply because they are atheists. That's just... odd.

:iagree: I think it's odd that we need an article to say that non-believers are moral. All people of any "group" can be moral, just as all people of any "group" can be immoral.

[Geek]

It just so happens that much of what society thinks is moral behavior also falls under the moral behavior definition for Christians. So the idea that you cannot possibly raise your children as moral people (according to society's standards of morals) unless you are a Christian is patently false.

Thing is, a LOT of Christians--from liberal believers to fundies--think that this morality was defined by Christians. You'd be amazed at the plethora of people who cannot see that the most common moral precepts are shared by all religions and cultures.

 

A religion isn't required to define right and wrong.

[chiguirre]

 

And yet, all the examples the author cites in the first paragraph are true. Atheists are discriminated against in the BSA and the military and they are generally unelectable.

[Lady Florida.]

And yet, all the examples the author cites in the first paragraph are true. Atheists are discriminated against in the BSA and the military and they are generally unelectable.

 

Yes. The Boy Scouts do not believe you can be "the best kind of citizen" without a belief in God. This is the reason atheists aren't allowed in Boy Scouts. It's in their official policy.

[Geek]

Yes. The Boy Scouts do not believe you can be "the best kind of citizen" without a belief in God. This is the reason atheists aren't allowed in Boy Scouts. It's in their official policy.

And they receive all sorts of bennies from the US government.

 

You've got people screaming about Planned Parenthood, saying that all the good they do is outweighed by their abortions so they don't want any of their taxpayer money supporting them.

 

Meanwhile you've got the government giving the okay to an org that openly discriminates against gays and atheists. Should we make a fuss about them getting government funds? :tongue_smilie:

[Julie Smith]

Meanwhile you've got the government giving the okay to an org that openly discriminates against gays and atheists. Should we make a fuss about them getting government funds? :tongue_smilie:

 

The no atheists in Boy Scouts really annoys me. Here in Canada (correct me if I'm wrong - but I don't thin I am) girls are allowed in scouts, as well as people of any sexual orientation. But no atheists. :glare:

 

You must believe in something, anything counts - but a believe system must be in place.

 

If it wasn't for that Scouts might have been perfect for us.

[JessieC]

Yes. The Boy Scouts do not believe you can be "the best kind of citizen" without a belief in God. This is the reason atheists aren't allowed in Boy Scouts. It's in their official policy.

 

This is why my son will never be a Boy Scout. Sad, because dd is a Girl Scout and we like it a lot. I wish the Boy Scouts didn't feel the need to politicize their group and thus exclude so many boys.

[IsabelC]

Yes, I agree. I've been told many times that there is no way I could raise moral children outside the confines of a religion, specifically Christian. When they see my kind, considerate, generous children, I hope I've proven them wrong.

 

Yes. I have been told that (a) if I don't follow Christianity, I must be immoral, and (b) if I am a moral person, I must in fact be a Christian, whether I admit it or not!

 

 

 

Regarding the article, I don't think it's very well argued.

Consider this bit:

murder rates are far lower in secularized nations such as Japan or Sweden than they are in the much more religious United States

This is taken as some kind of proof that religious people are more likely to be murderers!

 

Then a little further on:

While many studies show that secular Americans don’t fare as well as the religious when it comes to certain indicators of mental health or subjective well-being, new scholarship is showing that the relationships among atheism, theism, and mental health and well-being are complex.

But the whole topic is complex and multifaceted; it's not only complex when the evidence doesn't seem at first glance, to support your opinion!

 

I agree, of course, with the basic thesis that atheists do experience discrimination, and that this needs to change, but the authors haven't really got me convinced about who is more ethical. Perhaps the article suffered from being cut to the required length for WP?

Edited May 6, 2011 by Hotdrink