so if you do not believe in Providential history

[abreakfromlife]

but happened to have in-laws that very firmly believe in Providential history, America is God's country and all that stuff, and then they proceed to give your kids The Light and the Glory and From Sea to Shining Sea for Easter, how would that conversation go? In my MIL's defense, I don't think she knows I absolutely cannot stand providential history....she should know we're not that conservative, but she just doesn't care. Even if she knew I hated PH, she would still consider it her duty as a grandma to try and instill that in my kids, since I'm falling down on the job :tongue_smilie: So, I hid the books from my kids, and so far they haven't remembered that she gave them to them, but I'm sure eventually ds will, and she's going to ask them about the books the next time she sees them. So I'm already dreading that conversation when the kids say 'mom won't let us read them b/c stuff in the books aren't true' and then she wants to know why I won't let them read them......ugh :tongue_smilie:

 

I skimmed them last night to review why I didn't like them, and I was getting so mad. Dh wanted to know why I didn't just stop reading it, LOL. King Philips war was a spiritual battle? Really? The indians were tools of Satan and the Puritans were full of godly awesomeness? :001_huh::001_huh::001_huh: I'm so tempted to throw the books away, but they're hiding on a shelf where the kids won't see them.

[Carol in Cal.]

"We're saving them for when we study that part of history, Grandma. Thank you so much! By the way, may I have your recipe for that wonderful Easter Egg Cake? It was just beautiful! I wish that I was good at cake decorating. Did you take a class???"

[Snowfall]

Whew! I was going to say just read them and tell your kids what is ridiculous about them every time you get to an absurd part, but then I checked to see how long they were and...yeah, I wouldn't read 176 page and 208 page books of nonsense to my kids. That's too long. I guess it depends on your philosophy of dealing with in-laws, but in my family, DH prefers to handle those sorts of things with his mother. I know some people prefer the philosophy that you should handle things directly so as not to put your spouse in the middle, but handling it himself is the way my husband prefers it, so that's what we do. If I had to talk to my MIL about that, I'd tell her the truth - that we don't believe those things and aren't going to teach our children that they are true. There have been some occasions where I've had to be the one to have to talk to my MIL about things like that, and I've always just told her the truth in as nice a way as I could.

 

Good luck! These situations are tricky and uncomfortable. :grouphug:

[mommaduck]

but happened to have in-laws that very firmly believe in Providential history, America is God's country and all that stuff, and then they proceed to give your kids The Light and the Glory and From Sea to Shining Sea for Easter, how would that conversation go? In my MIL's defense, I don't think she knows I absolutely cannot stand providential history....she should know we're not that conservative, but she just doesn't care. Even if she knew I hated PH, she would still consider it her duty as a grandma to try and instill that in my kids, since I'm falling down on the job :tongue_smilie: So, I hid the books from my kids, and so far they haven't remembered that she gave them to them, but I'm sure eventually ds will, and she's going to ask them about the books the next time she sees them. So I'm already dreading that conversation when the kids say 'mom won't let us read them b/c stuff in the books aren't true' and then she wants to know why I won't let them read them......ugh :tongue_smilie:

 

I skimmed them last night to review why I didn't like them, and I was getting so mad. Dh wanted to know why I didn't just stop reading it, LOL. King Philips war was a spiritual battle? Really? The indians were tools of Satan and the Puritans were full of godly awesomeness? :001_huh::001_huh::001_huh: I'm so tempted to throw the books away, but they're hiding on a shelf where the kids won't see them.

 

Thank you for reminding me why I need to clean out my bookcases.

 

When we come across stuff like that in a book, I sometimes will read it anyway and then lecture on why it's bull. The kids understand that this is the view that certain groups take and then they also learn the "other sides" of history.

Edited April 25, 2011 by mommaduck

[Princess Peach]

I bought the three book set for our study of US history this year. When I started reading the first book aloud, my oldest was like, "that's not true!". LOL. We ditched them. I did re-sell them, though. Maybe you could, too? :tongue_smilie:

[AmericanMom]

I don't think I've heard of these books. Who is the publisher?

 

My in laws will occasionally give the kids things I don't like, but I usually just put it aside for awhile then get rid of it. But, they rarely ask about it later. I agree with the one who said deflect, as in -- we haven't been able to get to them yet (true, and we never will is the left-off part), how's (insert her favorite topic of discussion that isn't this)? That is usually my tactic in these types of situations.

[kimi-o]

"We're saving them for when we study that part of history, Grandma. Thank you so much! By the way, may I have your recipe for that wonderful Easter Egg Cake? It was just beautiful! I wish that I was good at cake decorating. Did you take a class???"

 

 

:iagree:

[aprilhwth]

Are you Christian? Are you having your kids learn the Pledge of Allegiance? I am thinking I won't. I really don't want them growing up thinking America is so great. I mean, yeah, it is great in a lot of ways, but as far as it being modern-day Israel and what not...God's new chosen people.... bla bla bla. I don't want our kids having that mind-set.

[susankenny]

Unless this is an on-going issue, I would simply accept it as a gift and say thank-you. It doesn't sound like she wasn't trying to disrespect you, so let it be. Truly, it was a thoughtful gift in the sense that she knows you homeschool & probably thought you would enjoy a something that showed her support to you all in that area. Is she manipulative? Mean? Controlling? If not, let it go. If yes, let your husband deal with it.

 

Susan

Edited April 25, 2011 by susankenny

[i.love.lucy]

Are you Christian? Are you having your kids learn the Pledge of Allegiance? I am thinking I won't. I really don't want them growing up thinking America is so great. I mean, yeah, it is great in a lot of ways, but as far as it being modern-day Israel and what not...God's new chosen people.... bla bla bla. I don't want our kids having that mind-set.

[TracyP]

"We're saving them for when we study that part of history, Grandma. Thank you so much! By the way, may I have your recipe for that wonderful Easter Egg Cake? It was just beautiful! I wish that I was good at cake decorating. Did you take a class???"

 

:iagree:

 

Are you Christian? Are you having your kids learn the Pledge of Allegiance? I am thinking I won't. I really don't want them growing up thinking America is so great. I mean, yeah, it is great in a lot of ways, but as far as it being modern-day Israel and what not...God's new chosen people.... bla bla bla. I don't want our kids having that mind-set.

 

Wow, there seems to be a fairly large gap between not believing in PH (I don't) and not liking America.(I do:))

[abreakfromlife]

Manipulative, yes, but out of love. She is Marie from Everybody Love Ray.

I was going to say just read them and tell your kids what is ridiculous about them every time you get to an absurd part

I thought about doing that with dd when she is a couple of years older, and talk with her about it, and read a couple other history books at the same time and compare it all. But she's not ready for that yet.

Are you Christian? Are you having your kids learn the Pledge of Allegiance?

Yes, and I haven't yet....I kind of have an issue with pledging allegiance to anything other than God, but I know most people would have a cow if the kids didn't know it, so I just don't bring it up, lol. My MIL tries to teach it to them every once in awhile.

Truly, it was a thoughtful gift in the sense that she knows you homeschool & probably thought you would enjoy a something that showed her support to you all in that area.

Yeah, it was, and we all said thank you....but when it comes out that I won't let the kids read it, and she'll ask b/c my ds loves history, then it's going to turn into this huge kerfuffle because we don't agree with her. And since she thinks some of this stuff so strongly, she thinks we're not doing our jobs as parents if we're not teaching our kids some of this, and so she thinks she has the responsibility to teach it to our kids. I forget her exact wording, but awhile ago she said something like 'if the parents aren't teaching the kids what they need spiritually, then it's the grandparents job to step in and do it'. Um, no :tongue_smilie: We've had a few issues over this kind of thing in the past. It's so frustrating when you believe something different than your family. And we're still under the grouping 'Christian'. I can't imagine how hard it would be to be an entirely different religion, or no religion, than your family.

[Princess Peach]

Wow, there seems to be a fairly large gap between not believing in PH (I don't) and not liking America.(I do:))

 

Ayup.

[AmericanMom]

Are you Christian? Are you having your kids learn the Pledge of Allegiance? I am thinking I won't. I really don't want them growing up thinking America is so great. I mean, yeah, it is great in a lot of ways, but as far as it being modern-day Israel and what not...God's new chosen people.... bla bla bla. I don't want our kids having that mind-set.

 

Sarcasm doesn't go over very well on the internet.

[DarlaS]

but happened to have in-laws that very firmly believe in Providential history, America is God's country and all that stuff, and then they proceed to give your kids The Light and the Glory and From Sea to Shining Sea for Easter, how would that conversation go? In my MIL's defense, I don't think she knows I absolutely cannot stand providential history....she should know we're not that conservative, but she just doesn't care. Even if she knew I hated PH, she would still consider it her duty as a grandma to try and instill that in my kids, since I'm falling down on the job :tongue_smilie: So, I hid the books from my kids, and so far they haven't remembered that she gave them to them, but I'm sure eventually ds will, and she's going to ask them about the books the next time she sees them. So I'm already dreading that conversation when the kids say 'mom won't let us read them b/c stuff in the books aren't true' and then she wants to know why I won't let them read them......ugh :tongue_smilie:

 

I skimmed them last night to review why I didn't like them, and I was getting so mad. Dh wanted to know why I didn't just stop reading it, LOL. King Philips war was a spiritual battle? Really? The indians were tools of Satan and the Puritans were full of godly awesomeness? :001_huh::001_huh::001_huh: I'm so tempted to throw the books away, but they're hiding on a shelf where the kids won't see them.

 

My mom gave my kids some dvds for Christmas from Wallbuilders with "historian" David Barton. She knows I avoid that kind of material--and why. I am certain she's trying to rescue my kids from the "error" of my ways. :glare:

 

Books can become mysteriously lost you know. :D

 

Now how can I lose a 10 dvd set? :001_huh:

[DarlaS]

Are you Christian? Are you having your kids learn the Pledge of Allegiance? I am thinking I won't. I really don't want them growing up thinking America is so great. I mean, yeah, it is great in a lot of ways, but as far as it being modern-day Israel and what not...God's new chosen people.... bla bla bla. I don't want our kids having that mind-set.

 

Inexplicably, I have not taught the pledge to my kids and somehow they know it (My dd does anyway.). I have no idea where she learned it, but with her memory, it's possible she heard it once or twice.

 

I didn't go out of my way to not teach it. Quite frankly, I have no strong feelings on it one way or another. I just know I didn't teach it.

[meet me in paris]

I am certain she's trying to rescue my kids from the "error" of my ways. :glare:

We get a lot of that 'round here, too. <sigh> Sometimes mom asks where such and such book is... I usually tell her I gave it to a friend to use (my friend is often the Good Will box, LOL). It makes her happy to know that someone is using it. This happened most recently with the God and Government set she gave me. ;)

[Farrar]

I wouldn't use them. For me, that's beyond being a different perspective to being false. If your kids were a few years older, then I would say you could use it as an example of evaluating a text and understanding bias and all that, but not at those ages. But I also wouldn't make a big deal of it.

 

My mil used to give us lots of books that *she* thought would be useful, so we started really directing the in laws to specific things we needed for homeschooling that would be nice of them to buy us that would also be stuff they would enjoy giving. Wouldn't work for everyone's family, but going forward you might talk to her about things she could give that would be really helpful but also dovetail with her own ideas. There's got to be a venn diagram of overlap somewhere there, right?

[RootAnn]

Wow, fun stuff there, OP. I think my friend's use of "Bless your heart for giving us those" would be a good start if she brings them up.

 

I've not run into the PH thing, but my SIL gave all three of my girls Barbie DVDs a couple of years ago for Christmas. I made the mistake of blurting, "Well, we aren't going to watch THOSE." I got quite the glare in return.

 

The kids have asked where they are. (My answer is, "Hidden very well.")

 

SIL has asked if the kids ever got to watch them. ("Of course not. *sweet smile*")

 

If MIL feels so strongly about it, I'm not sure what you can do except either 1) continue as you are doing, 2) avoid her at all costs, 3) tell her how you believe and that you have no intention of teaching your children those beliefs (and possibly doing #2 after this to keep her from going behind your back and trying), or 4) lie.

 

I'm not in favor of #4. I'm an avoider-of-conflict usually, so I'd go with #2 as much as possible with #3 mixed in if necessary.

 

I'm a rah-rah America type myself, but couldn't believe some of the beliefs that were passed off as "facts" in Light & the Glory when a homeschool mom friend loaned it to me a couple of years ago. *shudders*

[boscopup]

I would probably just say "Now where in the Bible does it talk about America? Maybe it was 3 Corinthians?" If pressed, I'd go into a spiel about how I don't assign actions to God where God hasn't stated he's done them. We don't know what God has a direct hand in and what God just lets people use their free will to do, so I'm not making any assumptions when teaching my kids. I teach what God said he did (in the Bible). Beyond that, there is no revelation to tell me if God used a person or nation, and I don't feel right about assigning actions to God that he may not have done.

 

If that wasn't good enough, DH would handle it.

 

Thankfully, my MIL believes as we do. My mother is a much more liberal Christian, so no issue there with PH... and she tends to let us teach our kids ourselves. We have very differing religious views (like she's an organist and we don't use instrumental music in worship), but she doesn't thrust her views on my kids. That's not her job.

[abreakfromlife]

 

but going forward you might talk to her about things she could give that would be really helpful but also dovetail with her own ideas.

that's not a bad idea. I do that at christmas; no reason I couldn't keep a running wish list of books for her. Hopefully DH can just take this one for me, LOL.

I'm not in favor of #4. I'm an avoider-of-conflict usually, so I'd go with #2 as much as possible with #3 mixed in if necessary.

me too.....and that's usually what I do, so now the issue always is, they ask DH why I don't like them :tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie: gotta love the in-laws. At least she loves the kids so I'm grateful for that. It could be worse!

[foxbridgeacademy]

As the parent YOU get to decide what your children are exposed or not exposed to. I would have pulled her aside and said no thanks as nicely as I could. If she continued to persist, I would have laid my objections out in very plain terms. I have found being honest cuts down on the stress for me. Like pulling the band aid off quickly.

[Spy Car]

I'd say, husband's problem to deal with his parents. And that "he" doesn't like the message in the books and "he" doesn't want them used by "his" children. And you are insulated from the discussion, because this is "his" decision.

 

Bill

[kchara]

I'd save them and use them~ might not be in history, probably more in logic and critical thinking, and definitely not use them in the manner she was thinking about, absolutely not teach history with them, but I'd use them nonetheless. ;)

[mnllj7]

WOW!!! I wish my mother-n-law would give us books like that and support our homeschooling. I would love to have those books to teach my children. My mother=n=law is just the exact opposite, she opposes the things we teach. Life is interesting. nancyt.

[Hunter]

I would use them in very short bits, along with a couple other books, to compare and contrast.

 

I'd use a Mennonite version, the providential version, a politically correct version, and an encyclopedia which tries hard to be nonbiased.

 

What about the artwork? You could even compare that. Also, the fonts and white space and layout.

 

Is any of the artwork worthy of being photocopied and used as clip art for projects? Or haha, you could use the books themselves as clip art :-) :-) Just joking :-)

 

Providential is much more than being conservative. The Mennonites are conservative and certainly NOT providential. I think contrasting the 2 views is critical for children to understand, and then to contrast conservative with liberal.

 

I think your MIL has given you a very important tool to help you give your children a wide understanding of what different Americans believe. I would present all the views respectfully and teach your children to listen respectfully to views that they and you do not agree with, and look for some common ground and well as differences.

[Carol in Cal.]

I would use them in very short bits, along with a couple other books, to compare and contrast.

 

I'd use a Mennonite version, the providential version, a politically correct version, and an encyclopedia which tries hard to be nonbiased.

 

Providential is much more than being conservative. The Mennonites are conservative and certainly NOT providential. I think contrasting the 2 views is critical for children to understand, and then to contrast conservative with liberal.

 

I think your MIL has given you a very important tool to help you give your children a wide understanding of what different Americans believe.

 

I agree with this, but not until you're sure that the children will neither be shocked nor confused. I used one and only one of those books as PART of our ante-bellum studies when DD was in middle school. By then she had been all the way through SOTW and some other mostly third world cultural unit studies. And I used it as one resource among several, and we talked about the differences between it's presentation of the facts and the other books. By then DD was old enough to have noticed that history books don't always agree. She had a firm faith and was not 'thrown' by the idea that Christians can say that God did things that we don't think He actually did, and that that is not right, but that He is still God and He still does things. I wanted her to hear at least one PH book before we finished homeschooling so that she would be familiar with that point of view. And, frankly, the book was well-written and fun to read, although I violently disagreed with a number of its assertions, actually to the point of being offended in places; which made for good discussions, too. "See Mommy. See Mommy rant. Rant, Mommy, rant!"

 

I would caution against using this with young, literal children, though. It could have pretty bad repercussions.

[G5052]

I agree with this, but not until you're sure that the children will neither be shocked nor confused. I used one and only one of those books as PART of our ante-bellum studies when DD was in middle school. By then she had been all the way through SOTW and some other mostly third world cultural unit studies. And I used it as one resource among several, and we talked about the differences between it's presentation of the facts and the other books. By then DD was old enough to have noticed that history books don't always agree. She had a firm faith and was not 'thrown' by the idea that Christians can say that God did things that we don't think He actually did, and that that is not right, but that He is still God and He still does things. I wanted her to hear at least one PH book before we finished homeschooling so that she would be familiar with that point of view. And, frankly, the book was well-written and fun to read, although I violently disagreed with a number of its assertions, actually to the point of being offended in places; which made for good discussions, too. "See Mommy. See Mommy rant. Rant, Mommy, rant!"

 

I would caution against using this with young, literal children, though. It could have pretty bad repercussions.

 

We had a vivid illustration of this today during the tour of a Civil War battlefield. The ranger was trying to emphasize the different viewpoints in that war and talked about a very unusual natural event that occurred following the battle. The winning side took it as a sign of God's favor in their victory and wrote very vivid descriptions of how God was celebrating them. The losing side barely noted it other than something usual that happened. In the end, the side that celebrated that event actually lost the war. So who was right...?

[aprilhwth]

 

What does your little favicon mean? Am I a devil for not teaching my kids the pledge?

[aprilhwth]

Wow, there seems to be a fairly large gap between not believing in PH (I don't) and not liking America.(I do:))

 

I love America. It's the mindset of a lot of the people that I don't like. But this is not the place for that discussion. I just thought I would get her opinion on that since it seemed to be a little along those lines.

[frankcassiesmom]

I would probably just say "Now where in the Bible does it talk about America? Maybe it was 3 Corinthians?" If pressed, I'd go into a spiel about how I don't assign actions to God where God hasn't stated he's done them. We don't know what God has a direct hand in and what God just lets people use their free will to do, so I'm not making any assumptions when teaching my kids. I teach what God said he did (in the Bible). Beyond that, there is no revelation to tell me if God used a person or nation, and I don't feel right about assigning actions to God that he may not have done.

 

 

I'd gently tell her that you won't be teaching PH. Explain to her clearly what is bolded above.

[ChicoryChick]

I'd say, husband's problem to deal with his parents. And that "he" doesn't like the message in the books and "he" doesn't want them used by "his" children. And you are insulated from the discussion, because this is "his" decision.

 

Bill

 

 

:iagree: