Reactive Attachment Parents.. I need someone

[happyhomemaker25]

I really need some prayers or something. My daughter was never officially diagnosed but she has a lot of the symptoms of R.A.D.

Since she hit puberty it has been a real battle. We usually go in cycles where we have a few months of normalcy. This last cycle has not stopped though.

Today I blew up after weeks of handling things calmly and without emotion. I told her I can't wait until she moves out. That if she so desperatly wants to be seperated from me then she has won. Because now I don't want to be with her either. I'm sick of the lies, the deception, the disrespect, the disobedience and the overall feeling of tension in this house.

I still can't believe I said these words. I feel like such a child. I have been doing so well.

This weekend she told us that she is going to be who she wants to be and she won't do what we tell her to unless she wants to.

I very calmly told her that was her choice and that if she chooses to disobey us then she chooses the consequences that go with that. It was great. I was calm and unemotional.

Today I was not. I just blew up.

Every day she lies to us. Every.day.

Every day she disobeyes us. Every.day.

She is grounded right now because of a bad choice she made with a boy. She is not allowed to go anywhere without us.

She says we are stifling her, but really if I can't trust her with little stuff should I just let her have her freedom?

She has no repentance. She does not think she has done anything wrong.

She basically snuck around with this boy and lied to us. But she's old enough to make those decisions and it's none of our business. (her exact words)

I'm so tired.

We have talked about family counseling but we really can't afford one right now. Agree with me or not it would have to be a Christian counselor.

I have also read that if you don't find a counselor who specializes in R.A.D. that it can feed the child's victim mentality. UGH. That's the last thing we need to feed right now.

I'm so tired.

I used to read about other R.A.D. moms who felt like this and considered myself lucky because we were dealing so well with it.

I just don't know what to do.

[Dobela]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: RAD is awful to deal with. I wish I could give you some respite or something. Are you a part of the yahoo group called RAD FAS kids? Lots of terrific support there.

 

When we had foster dds were were trying to adopt, that had RAD, we found a wonderful counselor thru a community counseling service. They had a sliding fee scale for families in need. 2 of the counselors I knew were very experienced with RAD and were also Christians. They were wonderful for us to talk to because while they didn't advertise as Christians, they could approach therapy from a Christian view if we wanted it.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Rose in BC]

I really need some prayers or something. My daughter was never officially diagnosed but she has a lot of the symptoms of R.A.D.

Since she hit puberty it has been a real battle. We usually go in cycles where we have a few months of normalcy. This last cycle has not stopped though.

Today I blew up after weeks of handling things calmly and without emotion. I told her I can't wait until she moves out. That if she so desperatly wants to be seperated from me then she has won. Because now I don't want to be with her either. I'm sick of the lies, the deception, the disrespect, the disobedience and the overall feeling of tension in this house.

I still can't believe I said these words. I feel like such a child. I have been doing so well.

This weekend she told us that she is going to be who she wants to be and she won't do what we tell her to unless she wants to.

I very calmly told her that was her choice and that if she chooses to disobey us then she chooses the consequences that go with that. It was great. I was calm and unemotional.

Today I was not. I just blew up.

Every day she lies to us. Every.day.

Every day she disobeyes us. Every.day.

She is grounded right now because of a bad choice she made with a boy. She is not allowed to go anywhere without us.

She says we are stifling her, but really if I can't trust her with little stuff should I just let her have her freedom?

She has no repentance. She does not think she has done anything wrong.

She basically snuck around with this boy and lied to us. But she's old enough to make those decisions and it's none of our business. (her exact words)

I'm so tired.

We have talked about family counseling but we really can't afford one right now. Agree with me or not it would have to be a Christian counselor.

I have also read that if you don't find a counselor who specializes in R.A.D. that it can feed the child's victim mentality. UGH. That's the last thing we need to feed right now.

I'm so tired.

I used to read about other R.A.D. moms who felt like this and considered myself lucky because we were dealing so well with it.

I just don't know what to do.

 

I sent you a PM. :grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

I was just about to shut my computer when I saw this. I have a RAD dd and can commiserate. She's doing fabulously right now but I fear what will happen when she hits puberty! It's been a looooooooooooong, painful, stressful, exhausting journey. I'm enjoying some peace and normalcy for the moment. (it's only been a couple of months.)

 

Did you enter a note last week? There was someone on here having troubles with their teen whom she thought had AD or RAD and I can't find that thread now. I wish I could!

 

Anyway, I have to finish up history reading (LATE start today!) before we leave for swim. If I haven't responded back by tomorrow, please PM me. I don't have a good memory.

:grouphug:

 

AND TO ANYONE WHO READS HOW JULIE BLEW UP AND SAID THINGS IN ANGER: HOLD YOUR TONGUE. There is just NO WAY you will ever know how you'd act if you had a child with RAD. NO WAY. Never in a million years did I think I'd have the thoughts and feelings I've had towards my child at various times, and NO WAY did I think I'd have to parent her as I do. This child can NOT handle ONE OUNCE of freedom and most people simply don't understand. THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO and won't unless they have an AD or RAD child themselves.

 

JULIE: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Edited April 25, 2011 by Denisemomof4

[lionfamily1999]

:grouphug:

 

Can you talk to your pastor or her youth pastor? For a temporary fix, it could help.

 

:grouphug:

 

We all say things we regret at some point.

[Denisemomof4]

one more thing real quick. I used consequences, grounding, etc. with dd8 and have learned along the way that it just does NOT work. RAD kids are somehow comfortable stuck in negativity. I can't say I *NEVER* use grounding, etc. but it was trying to teach her a better way that truly helped.

 

The thing that finally turned us around was counseling by HEather Forbes and reading her book/joining her online forum. She even has a story about dd and I in her second book, shared with our permission. I see you're out of the US so you can't do the phone counselling, but there are webinars and people call in for those from all around the world. I learned of thouse through the Consciously Parenting Project/website. http://consciouslyparenting.com/ We had people calling in from all over the world. There is usually a therapist leading the class and then around 8 mothers who speak about their current issues. All of the therapists are trained to use the BCLC model.

 

Dd8 was HORRIFIC. She peed all over our house, destroyed our house, tried to kill our cat, has hurt me, and did many, many other HORRIFIC things. She's probably lied more than she has told the truth. It was taking this turn that helped turn things around for dd and I.

 

Did you know that RAD kids are known to act out more sexually and inappropriately around the opposite sex? I've already seen it in my dd and I've been working on it for years. She's so much better with that, too. I've bought a TON of books and read a TON online. I've had to help her because I can't find anyone locally qualified who can. It's so much work, a HUGE undertaking, but it appears to be paying off. (but I do fear puberty!)

 

We still struggle, yes. But it's NOTHING like it used to be. She's in my eyesight and earshot Every Waking Moment, but she seems to be thriving these last couple of months. I've been doing INTENSE work with her again for about a year and it appears to be paying off. Just yesterday, after a LOVELY day (see Easter thread), we were in the restaurant and the girls left to go to the bathroom, and dh said, "It's almost as if she's normal now." I am certain we will still have our struggles, but I've learned that typical parenting and consequences not only don't work with her, they make her worse.

 

And I'm sure you've read that you are to NEVER show emotion when angry to these children. It absolutely feeds into their sickness. They THRIVE when they know they have gotten to you.

 

Also, you absolutely can NOT see anyone not trained in RAD. Even too many who claim to be experienced with it truly are not and yes, it feeds into their sickness and makes them worse. I've read about it often.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

oh my heavens, you're in Florida! Please check into Heather Forbes. She's a social worker who's career is now to help moms like us. What makes her FABULOUS is that SHE has experienced all that WE have. She has two adoptees and has been through it all. She wrote a WONDERFUL article on what happens to moms who adopt RAD/AD kids and the affects it has on them. It was SO EYE OPENING. It finally made me feel normal and not like a monster. These kids just can do a number on us like nobody else can!

 

WHen I started out with Heather, she was VERY patient and kind with me. She didn't push me to do things I didn't feel like doing. She waited until I was ready to be extra loving and nurturing again. I was totally honest with how I felt. During our first session I told her I no longer loved my child. She accepted that, she understood that, but WHEN I WAS READY (not because I said so but because SHE knew that I was) she directed me to do things I simply was too burnt out to do earlier on.

 

The online forums have MANY people who started this approach with older kids. They CAN be turned around!

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

So much for history reading.;) We'll double it tomorrow.

[Haiku]

Agree with me or not it would have to be a Christian counselor.

 

We are not Christian but we used a Christian counselor who specialized in RAD. Honestly, we never discussed religion; it was not germane to what we were working on. The religion or lack thereof of a RAD counselor should not be a sticking point. There are not many RAD therapists out there, so if the only one(s) near you are not specifically Christian and you discount them, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I have also read that if you don't find a counselor who specializes in R.A.D. that it can feed the child's victim mentality.

 

We spent a year working with a regular therapist who was recommended to us by our homestudy agency because she had worked with kids from the foster care system. That year did more damage than good because she sympathized with our daughter.

 

I would recommend that you read a book by Nancy Thomas or check out resources on her website. I would beg, steal, borrow, and give up anything I could to find RAD counseling. "Family counseling" probably won't help. RAD counseling might. You are at the point with your dd (assuming it's the 13 year old) that you are running out of time. "They" say that once a child hits adolescence, "curing" or at least improving RAD symptoms becomes vastly more difficult.

 

We spent two years in RAD counseling. Our daughter improved from me (honestly) hating her and feeling like she completely ruined my life to feeling like I could co-exist with her for the next several years. I don't expect things to get much better, and we still have cycles, but I don't want to run away, kill her, or kill myself anymore.

 

I also put dd in school so that I could get time away from her every day.

 

She also started taking anti-depressants, which helped her quite a bit.

 

Several times I have lost my cool and told my dd exactly what was going through my mind. "They" say that you can't do that because it confirms for the child that they are, indeed, unlovable and no one else is trustworthy. In reality, things improved incrementally each time I told my daughter that she was unparentable because she was so untrusting.

 

I know what it's like to be in the depths of despair from this. My only advice is that you HAVE to find counseling appropriate for the situation. It helped my daughter, but it also helped me tremendously.

 

Tara

Edited April 25, 2011 by TaraTheLiberator

[SonshineLearner]

Hugs to ya! First, I was just thinking of punishments.... wanted to comment that if you end up "punishing".... my friend told me that the worst punishment is to be ground FROM your room... It's held true with ours.... not sure if that would happen to be a good thing for you or not... BUT, if you wanna say somethin' then... "YOU'RE GROUNDED!! from your room" might be good :)

[Ottakee]

Not knowing her age and background, have you considered a mood disorder (like bipolar) and/or fetal alcohol as part of her issues? The cycles of months of good and then months of bad can fit with a mood disorder. Often birth parents have undiagnosed and/or un treated mental illness and then their kids end up being adopted.

 

Our 15dd had a RAD diagnosis at one point but for her, most of the issue was the mood disorder and once that was adequately addressed through meds and counseling we could work on the parenting stuff for the RAD. Before that, no parenting things were going to work.

[HS Mom in NC]

My adopted child is 5, so I can't speak from experience with a child with RAD in the teen years. My advice is to ONLY stick with counselors experienced in and specializing in RAD. No matter how good intentioned, no friends, no family, no other church leadership, and no counselors with no experience in or specialty in RAD should be consulted. I would be very careful who I chose to vent in front of too. It's good you were so specific in the title of your post.

[Dobela]

We are not Christian but we used a Christian counselor who specialized in RAD. Honestly, we never discussed religion; it was not germane to what we were working on. The religion or lack thereof of a RAD counselor should not be a sticking point. There are not many RAD therapists out there, so if the only one(s) near you are not specifically Christian and you discount them, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

 

:iagree:

 

We spent a year working with a regular therapist who was recommended to us by our homestudy agency because she had worked with kids from the foster care system. That year did more damage than good because she sympathized with our daughter.

When we were working with our 2 girls it happened that we had 2 counselors involved. One had many years of working with RAD children (her name was Pam), the other essentially none (her name was Nicole). Nicole was the counselor at the PreK center the girls attended one day a week. She wrecked havoc every week and honestly, she is part of the reason the adoption failed. She knew them for a year before I met them and felt very protective of them. She didn't believe me at first when I began describing their behaviors. She refused to see the violence and the sexual components the girls were exhibiting. She also failed to see how negatively it was effecting our family. She wanted it to all revolve around the girls. Pam tried repeatedly to get Nicole to listen to reason but Nicole didn't. One of the best things about Pam was that she would schedule time just for me to visit her so I could vent, cry, share my frustrations in any way I needed. Pam would also have sesions with my son alone so he could get the therapy he needed to work thru this confusing time.

I would recommend that you read a book by Nancy Thomas or check out resources on her website. I would beg, steal, borrow, and give up anything I could to find RAD counseling. "Family counseling" probably won't help. RAD counseling might. You are at the point with your dd (assuming it's the 13 year old) that you are running out of time. "They" say that once a child hits adolescence, "curing" or at least improving RAD symptoms becomes vastly more difficult.

We love Nancy Thomas here. I have met her dd Beth personally and all I can say is WOW. Nancy is controversial, but what she does actually works. I would start reading all I could.

We spent two years in RAD counseling. Our daughter improved from me (honestly) hating her and feeling like she completely ruined my life to feeling like I could co-exist with her for the next several years. I don't expect things to get much better, and we still have cycles, but I don't want to run away, kill her, or kill myself anymore.

 

I also put dd in school so that I could get time away from her every day. IRL friends of ours here locally have finally stopped homeschooling and placed their boys in public school. The school is well aware of the boys problems and works well with the family. It also gives the parents a break that they need to survive.

 

She also started taking anti-depressants, which helped her quite a bit.

 

Several times I have lost my cool and told my dd exactly what was going through my mind. "They" say that you can't do that because it confirms for the child that they are, indeed, unlovable and no one else is trustworthy. In reality, things improved incrementally each time I told my daughter that she was unparentable because she was so untrusting.

 

I know what it's like to be in the depths of despair from this. My only advice is that you HAVE to find counseling appropriate for the situation. It helped my daughter, but it also helped me tremendously.

 

Tara

:grouphug::grouphug:

[momofkhm]

Julie, I don't have a RAD child, but I wanted to give you :grouphug: :grouphug:! What you have in your home is no easy thing. My heart goes out to you! My heart goes out to these kids, how will they cope as adults? How will you cope with the heart break?

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[East Coast Sue]

:grouphug: and I second the recommendation to read some Nancy Thomas books. So very helpful.

 

When we sought help, I knew we found someone who could help b/c he asked us if our child's statements were true or false. It was like he knew RAD kids lie and deceive; yet, he was able to get to the truth and help us. He gave us things to work on each week and it WORKED! We are Christian. Our therapist/Psychologist was NOT. It limited the way he could help but it was helpful, nonetheless.

[littleWMN]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: RAD is awful to deal with. I wish I could give you some respite or something. Are you a part of the yahoo group called RAD FAS kids? Lots of terrific support there.

 

When we had foster dds were were trying to adopt, that had RAD, we found a wonderful counselor thru a community counseling service. They had a sliding fee scale for families in need. 2 of the counselors I knew were very experienced with RAD and were also Christians. They were wonderful for us to talk to because while they didn't advertise as Christians, they could approach therapy from a Christian view if we wanted it.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Are they local?

 

OP, I will pray for you. No RAD here but probable FASD, which has some of the same behaviors. I have a nephew with RAD as well. DEFINITELY do NOT get a counselor that does not have experience/specialize in RAD.

[Dobela]

Are they local?

 

OP, I will pray for you. No RAD here but probable FASD, which has some of the same behaviors. I have a nephew with RAD as well. DEFINITELY do NOT get a counselor that does not have experience/specialize in RAD.

Local to me, not to you LOL. I don't know if one is still practicing though. She was wonderful. The one we had in LR was useless.

[Denisemomof4]

I just wanted to say that I have a few of nancy thomas books and yes, she is WONDERFUL. im also quite sure nancy thomas trained therapists do phone counseling. Nancy has also walked in our shoes and knows her stuff. I still also love heather forbes as she turned our situation around.

[Findley2]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

I am so sorry. I have four younger siblings with RAD and it is so awful. I agree with others you HAVE to find someone trained in RAD. I watched my mother go through hell trying to raise my siblings and get them help.

[Lisa in Jax]

I really need some prayers or something. My daughter was never officially diagnosed but she has a lot of the symptoms of R.A.D.

Since she hit puberty it has been a real battle. We usually go in cycles where we have a few months of normalcy. This last cycle has not stopped though.

Today I blew up after weeks of handling things calmly and without emotion. I told her I can't wait until she moves out. That if she so desperatly wants to be seperated from me then she has won. Because now I don't want to be with her either. I'm sick of the lies, the deception, the disrespect, the disobedience and the overall feeling of tension in this house.

I still can't believe I said these words. I feel like such a child. I have been doing so well.

This weekend she told us that she is going to be who she wants to be and she won't do what we tell her to unless she wants to.

I very calmly told her that was her choice and that if she chooses to disobey us then she chooses the consequences that go with that. It was great. I was calm and unemotional.

Today I was not. I just blew up.

Every day she lies to us. Every.day.

Every day she disobeyes us. Every.day.

She is grounded right now because of a bad choice she made with a boy. She is not allowed to go anywhere without us.

She says we are stifling her, but really if I can't trust her with little stuff should I just let her have her freedom?

She has no repentance. She does not think she has done anything wrong.

She basically snuck around with this boy and lied to us. But she's old enough to make those decisions and it's none of our business. (her exact words)

I'm so tired.

We have talked about family counseling but we really can't afford one right now. Agree with me or not it would have to be a Christian counselor.

I have also read that if you don't find a counselor who specializes in R.A.D. that it can feed the child's victim mentality. UGH. That's the last thing we need to feed right now.

I'm so tired.

I used to read about other R.A.D. moms who felt like this and considered myself lucky because we were dealing so well with it.

I just don't know what to do.

 

I'm in Jacksonville. We drove to Orlando to see Teresa Guerard, who is a Nancy Thomas style counselor, and a Christian. Heather Forbes is in FL, too, but I'm not sure where. I don't know her religious beliefs.

 

I have *never* lost my temper the way I did when my adopted daughter went off the rail. One thing I leared: if you "lose it," all you can do is start again. We're all human; try not to punish yourself for having an off day.

 

Hugs,

 

Lisa

[Haiku]

IRL friends of ours here locally have finally stopped homeschooling and placed their boys in public school. The school is well aware of the boys problems and works well with the family. It also gives the parents a break that they need to survive.

 

RAD kids thrive on making you insane, and they are masters at it. I was told flat out by several RAD-trained therapists that homeschooling a child with untreated RAD will not work because the child will view the situation ONLY as a challenge to derail everything the mother/teacher tries to do.

 

I'm not sure whether Denise homeschools her RAD kid, and if she does my hat goes off to her because she is far stronger woman than I could ever be, but I will say that on the several adoption lists I am on, NONE of the moms homeschool their RAD kids even if they homeschool all their other kids.

 

Honestly, getting my daughter out of the house for a significant portion of the day was the first thing I ever did that helped us in any way.

 

I would be very careful who I chose to vent in front of too.

 

And how! I had "friends" who had known me for years stop being friends with me because I was such a horrible mother. Here was this poor, sweet, beautiful orphaned child who just needed to be loved and I was SO MEAN to her!! I told such HORRIBLE LIES about the things she did and said!! I was SO SELFISH because giving I wasn't willing to give this child 100% of everything I could offer and leave nothing for the rest of my family. CLEARLY the only way this child would improve was if we catered to her every whim so she would see how much we loved her! (To their credit, I had some friends who stuck by me through the thinnest of times and never [let on that they, if they did] doubted anything I said. I will never forget these people's support.) Unless someone has dealt with a RAD child, they have NO IDEA what it's like and, frankly, their advice is generally worse than useless. Most often it's actively damaging, to the child, the mother (who usually always bears the brunt of the RAD child's behavior), and the parent/child relationship. These kids are simply NOT like other kids, and their behavior is NOT! NOT! NOT! motivated by the same things that non-RAD kids' behavior is motivated by. They are seeking something entirely different than your average non-RAD kid is seeking.

 

Tara

Edited April 26, 2011 by TaraTheLiberator

[littleWMN]

RAD kids thrive on making you insane, and they are masters at it. I was told flat out by several RAD-trained therapists that homeschooling a child with untreated RAD will not work because the child will view the situation ONLY as a challenge to derail everything the mother/teacher tries to do.

 

I'm not sure whether Denise homeschools her RAD kid, and if she does my hat goes off to her because she is far stronger woman than I could ever be, but I will say that on the several adoption lists I am on, NONE of the moms homeschool their RAD kids even if they homeschool all their other kids.

 

Honestly, getting my daughter out of the house for a significant portion of the day was the first thing I ever did that helped us in any way.

 

 

 

And how! I had "friends" who had known me for years stop being friends with me because I was such a horrible mother. Here was this poor, sweet, beautiful orphaned child who just needed to be loved and I was SO MEAN to her!! I told such HORRIBLE LIES about the things she did and said!! I was SO SELFISH because giving I wasn't willing to give this child 100% of everything I could offer and leave nothing for the rest of my family. CLEARLY the only way this child would improve was if we catered to her every whim so she would see how much we loved her! (To their credit, I had some friends who stuck by me through the thinnest of times and never [let on that they, if they did] doubted anything I said. I will never forget these people's support.) Unless someone has dealt with a RAD child, they have NO IDEA what it's like and, frankly, their advice is generally worse than useless. Most often it's actively damaging, to the child, the mother (who usually always bears the brunt of the RAD child's behavior), and the parent/child relationship. These kids are simply NOT like other kids, and their behavior is NOT! NOT! NOT! motivated by the same things that non-RAD kids' behavior is motivated by. They are seeking something entirely different than your average non-RAD kid is seeking.

 

Tara

 

:iagree: Agree. All of it. Again, no RAD here but FAS/D and some milder attachment issues. Mine's the only one in my family in public school b/c of learning issues but even moreso b/c of family dynamics. :)

[jewellsmommy]

:grouphug: I just wanted to add my commiseration as well. I don't have any wisdom yet as I am new to the RAD situation. Ds has not been officially diagnosed yet. We were just recently told by the therapist that he suspects RAD (dis-inhibited form). I totally understand the frustration over the lying. We go through this every day as well. He will claim that he did not do something that I watched him do right in front of me! He is also ADHD and has a history of trauma/abuse, so I know we have a long road ahead. I, too, will be looking into the authors mentioned above. Thank you all.

[happyhomemaker25]

Thanks everyone! I am looking into a lot of your resources. Thanks!! It really meant a lot all of your encouraging words. School with this child was horrible. Believe it or not she has actually done better being homeschooled because I can be aware of what she is doing.

When she was in school no one paid any attention to what she was doing and getting away with and it spilled over into our life at home. She does her school work for the most part. She recently decided she wants to go to college so she is actually taking more care with her work.

I'm actually afraid of what she would do at school since she would be in middle school this year. I can't even imagine sending her into that with her lack of boundaries. Yikes.

The respite would be nice, but I don't have that resource right now.

Thanks again for everything.

We talked some tonight and she said she would think about what was said. I took the two younger girls to the mall and let them window shop all day. It was a nice way to get away from the drama and reconnect with them. I feel so bad for my younger kids because they get lost in the chaos sometimes.

I came home feeling refreshed and my daughter and I actually connected some tonight.

We'll see what tomorrow looks like.

Thanks again for all the encouragement and resources. I feel like there is still some hope.

[Haiku]

I am glad that homeschooling is working for you! There were many times with my daughter where I felt like every which way I turned, one of her issues was smacking me in the face. I was hemmed in and I couldn't escape. For me, the one thing I could give up control of was her schooling, and sending her to school did help relieve some of the pressure. If having her in school was causing stress because of her unaddressed behaviors, I am glad you were able to make a choice that relieved some of that stress for you!

 

I feel so bad for my younger kids because they get lost in the chaos sometimes.

 

I felt the same way. My little ones were young when my daughter arrived in the family. For several years EVERYTHING revolved around her and her issues, and the younger ones got shafted, quite simply.

 

I came home feeling refreshed and my daughter and I actually connected some tonight.

 

One thing my daughter and I started doing that has helped us is setting aside a night every week where we watch tv together. (I don't like watching tv, but she does.) We have watched several tv series on DVD ... the one we have liked the most is Gilmore Girls. We have talked about and compared our relationship to Lorelei and Rory's, and we have made some changes in how we communicate to emulate their (very open) relationship in a light-hearted way. No matter how much we hate each other at any certain time, NOTHING gets in the way of our weekly tv time.

 

We'll see what tomorrow looks like.

 

One of the hardest things for me was the repeated getting my hopes up when things improved, only to have them dashed when things got bad again. I DO NOT say that to deflate your positive feelings now; indeed, I say it to sympathize with your very real acknowledgement that life with these kids is a lot like Forrest Gump: you never know what you're going to get.

 

I will say that the dashing of hopes really doesn't happen anymore. My daughter and I have reached a plateau in our relationship that we can both live with. It ain't great, but it ain't horrible, and I have developed (mostly through counseling) a realistic idea of what a "good relationship" with this child is.

 

:grouphug:

 

Tara

[Findley2]

And how! I had "friends" who had known me for years stop being friends with me because I was such a horrible mother. Here was this poor, sweet, beautiful orphaned child who just needed to be loved and I was SO MEAN to her!! I told such HORRIBLE LIES about the things she did and said!! I was SO SELFISH because giving I wasn't willing to give this child 100% of everything I could offer and leave nothing for the rest of my family. CLEARLY the only way this child would improve was if we catered to her every whim so she would see how much we loved her! (To their credit, I had some friends who stuck by me through the thinnest of times and never [let on that they, if they did] doubted anything I said. I will never forget these people's support.) Unless someone has dealt with a RAD child, they have NO IDEA what it's like and, frankly, their advice is generally worse than useless. Most often it's actively damaging, to the child, the mother (who usually always bears the brunt of the RAD child's behavior), and the parent/child relationship. These kids are simply NOT like other kids, and their behavior is NOT! NOT! NOT! motivated by the same things that non-RAD kids' behavior is motivated by. They are seeking something entirely different than your average non-RAD kid is seeking.

 

Tara

:iagree:

This was what my mom went through. Even some of our family turned on her.

People kept telling her that if she loved the kids more they wouldn't have problems. People can be so stupid.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Findley2

[Denisemomof4]

 

I'm not sure whether Denise homeschools her RAD kid, and if she does my hat goes off to her because she is far stronger woman than I could ever be, but I will say that on the several adoption lists I am on, NONE of the moms homeschool their RAD kids even if they homeschool all their other kids.

 

And how! I had "friends" who had known me for years stop being friends with me because I was such a horrible mother. Here was this poor, sweet, beautiful orphaned child who just needed to be loved and I was SO MEAN to her!! I told such HORRIBLE LIES about the things she did and said!! I was SO SELFISH because giving I wasn't willing to give this child 100% of everything I could offer and leave nothing for the rest of my family. CLEARLY the only way this child would improve was if we catered to her every whim so she would see how much we loved her! (To their credit, I had some friends who stuck by me through the thinnest of times and never [let on that they, if they did] doubted anything I said. I will never forget these people's support.) Unless someone has dealt with a RAD child, they have NO IDEA what it's like and, frankly, their advice is generally worse than useless. Most often it's actively damaging, to the child, the mother (who usually always bears the brunt of the RAD child's behavior), and the parent/child relationship. These kids are simply NOT like other kids, and their behavior is NOT! NOT! NOT! motivated by the same things that non-RAD kids' behavior is motivated by. They are seeking something entirely different than your average non-RAD kid is seeking.

 

Tara

 

Tara, yes I homeschool my RAD dd but it's because I feel that I *have* to to protect my other kids. My RAD kid, like all RAD kids, constantly lies and her lies could endanger the safety of my other kids. If she were in school, I'm POSITIVE that there would be more problems than there are with her. I *have* checked into Hershey Boarding school because they take RAD kids and they don't charge, but on their website it states that it's for under privileged children so I know we won't qualify. Still, I did put a call into them.

 

The homeschooling journey the past two years has been PURE TORTURE. HELL. But with some of the things that come out of dd's mouth, I just couldn't take a chance with putting her in school. If you notice in my signature, I mainly only do math with dd since she just finished up FIRST GRADE phonics. It was PURE TORTURE to get her to do her work. She oftentimes would purposefully answer every single question/problem wrong, and keep doing it for weeks. Then she'd have a playdate and would be told she couldn't play until she got all her work done, and she'd take weeks of work and complete it, correctly, within a short period of time. It was so maddening that sometimes I just wished I wouldn't awake in the morning. Then I'd have the guilt because dd11 NEEDS me and how could I think like that.

 

She now does Time4learning so I don't have to be responsible for all her subjects. And finally, we're in a good place where she's DOING her other school work. She's been doing well FINALLY for about 2 - 3 months now.

 

About your second paragraph, it's SO HARD because I can just relate so much. I do know that all my friends fully understand the situation and believe me, but I am friends with some of the mom's who have dd's that are dd8's friends, and those friendships are sometimes uncomfortable. The DOTING makes my dd worse, as you know, and sometimes I just want to smack some of the moms upside their head! It's hard because I have two friends with dd's the same ages as my two, so we see them regularly. I truly do consider the moms my friend, too, but it's difficult at times because of youngest. I have not had a two month period of no issues in so many years I can't count, so I am doing the happy dance right now, knowing that tripping and falling will likely happen at a time we least expect it.

 

Am I strong? No. I feel trapped.

 

But thankfully, it's been peaceful and even JOYFUL lately!

[Denisemomof4]

re

I am glad that homeschooling is working for you! There were many times with my daughter where I felt like every which way I turned, one of her issues was smacking me in the face. I was hemmed in and I couldn't escape. For me, the one thing I could give up control of was her schooling, and sending her to school did help relieve some of the pressure. If having her in school was causing stress because of her unaddressed behaviors, I am glad you were able to make a choice that relieved some of that stress for you!

 

 

 

I felt the same way. My little ones were young when my daughter arrived in the family. For several years EVERYTHING revolved around her and her issues, and the younger ones got shafted, quite simply.

 

 

 

One thing my daughter and I started doing that has helped us is setting aside a night every week where we watch tv together. (I don't like watching tv, but she does.) We have watched several tv series on DVD ... the one we have liked the most is Gilmore Girls. We have talked about and compared our relationship to Lorelei and Rory's, and we have made some changes in how we communicate to emulate their (very open) relationship in a light-hearted way. No matter how much we hate each other at any certain time, NOTHING gets in the way of our weekly tv time.

 

 

 

One of the hardest things for me was the repeated getting my hopes up when things improved, only to have them dashed when things got bad again. I DO NOT say that to deflate your positive feelings now; indeed, I say it to sympathize with your very real acknowledgement that life with these kids is a lot like Forrest Gump: you never know what you're going to get.

 

I will say that the dashing of hopes really doesn't happen anymore. My daughter and I have reached a plateau in our relationship that we can both live with. It ain't great, but it ain't horrible, and I have developed (mostly through counseling) a realistic idea of what a "good relationship" with this child is.

 

:grouphug:

 

Tara

 

Oh my word, Tara, you say so many things which prove to me that you truly HAVE walked a mile in my shoes!!! I am enjoying the peace and joy at the moment, but I am prepared for the sudden dropping of the proverbial shoe. Even expecting it to happen doesn't prepare you for when it does. Each time is more painful than the last, isn't it?

 

Julie, do EVERYTHING you can to protect the lives of your younger childern. Like Tara, our world revolved around our RAD child and her needs were put ahead of everyone else's. I so desperately wanted to help her heal! But all I did made her worse. I truly had to learn a new way of parenting and this child gets virtually NO FREEDOM. She lies in wait, just hoping for an opportunity to destroy. She gouged our brand new fireplace in our addition which is attached to our kitchen, and it likely happened when I turned my back for a moment to go get a cup of tea. She literally is within a few feet of me every waking moment. To let up for one second, even when she's doing well, will prove disastrous.

 

My boys are pretty much fed up and done, tired of all that's happened with her. She has changed our family in ways that I can never take back. I tried with all my might to prevent this from happening. I've worked SO hard.

 

I look forward to the day when I can go to the bathroom alone. I have 10 more years to go.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Denisemomof4

[Jumping In Puddles]

Edited, because I'm an idiot. Happyhomemaker25, I have no idea what it is like to raise a RAD child, and I think you are amazing with how far you've gotten with your child and I hope you get the advice you need here from people who have actual experience with RAD. :grouphug:

Edited April 26, 2011 by Jumping In Puddles

[Denisemomof4]

One last thing I want to say is that with EVERY therapist, you will need to learn what applies to your situation and what doesn't. I do not agree with everything Heather Forbes suggests or recommends and I'm ok to just take the parts that DO work and leave the rest behind.

 

I wanted to post this article for people to read (should I start a new thread?) so they can get one tiny iota of understanding of what RAD moms go through. This article is all about the affects RAD has on moms, not to mention the rest of the family:

 

http://www.beyondconsequences.com/issues.pdf

 

I personally have never read anything I *didn't* agree with where Nancy Thomas was concerned. She may be a better start for you. But you can also learn so much from Heather. It's free and easy to sign up for her online forum, and you can also sign up for her daily reflections.

[Twinmom]

Thanks for that link, Denise. The article really rings true, doesn't it? Glad to see that solid research is being done in this area, finally. When I worked in adoption, I saw so many of the issues raised in the article go unaddressed. As an adoptive mom, I understand the toll this takes on a family in a new, even more profound way. I'm going to save that article for future reference.

[sassyscrapperinid]

 

AND TO ANYONE WHO READS HOW JULIE BLEW UP AND SAID THINGS IN ANGER: HOLD YOUR TONGUE. There is just NO WAY you will ever know how you'd act if you had a child with RAD. NO WAY. Never in a million years did I think I'd have the thoughts and feelings I've had towards my child at various times, and NO WAY did I think I'd have to parent her as I do. This child can NOT handle ONE OUNCE of freedom and most people simply don't understand. THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO and won't unless they have an AD or RAD child themselves.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I just cry while I am reading this thread. We adopted my husbands sisters 5 children, ages 10 months to 9 years old, all at the same time 13 years ago. No one told us a word about RAD. I hadnt even heard of it until about 3 years ago. We expressed to the social workers when we first got them that we were having some behavioral issues and they sent us to a class about how to do time outs!! This has been hell on earth for us. And no, no one understands. We have been judged by ignorant people everywhere. We have indeed been through hell but now there is a light at the end of the tunnel as only 2 of them live at home still. Thank God for jobcorp. I have only recently come to realize that I have done the best I can considering I had no knowledge of RAD. If only I had known. I am sad to say I would not have adopted them. My marriage has BARELY survived. If only I had even had a support group like the ladies here who know and understand, maybe it would have helped. You guys are great! :001_smile:

:grouphug:Julie:grouphug: PM me if you want. If you just need to talk. I will listen without judging.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Thanks everyone! I am looking into a lot of your resources. Thanks!! It really meant a lot all of your encouraging words. School with this child was horrible. Believe it or not she has actually done better being homeschooled because I can be aware of what she is doing.

When she was in school no one paid any attention to what she was doing and getting away with and it spilled over into our life at home. She does her school work for the most part. She recently decided she wants to go to college so she is actually taking more care with her work.

I'm actually afraid of what she would do at school since she would be in middle school this year. I can't even imagine sending her into that with her lack of boundaries. Yikes.

The respite would be nice, but I don't have that resource right now.

Thanks again for everything.

We talked some tonight and she said she would think about what was said. I took the two younger girls to the mall and let them window shop all day. It was a nice way to get away from the drama and reconnect with them. I feel so bad for my younger kids because they get lost in the chaos sometimes.

I came home feeling refreshed and my daughter and I actually connected some tonight.

We'll see what tomorrow looks like.

Thanks again for all the encouragement and resources. I feel like there is still some hope.

:iagree: I agree with what you said about sticking with the homeschooling so you can know whats going on with the child. That was one of my reasonings as well. One of my RAD children just went to the job corp at 18 years old. We had been looking forward to the bit of peace that might be restored to our home after her departure but also have worried about the choices she would make while away from home/us. Especially in the jobcorp environment- troubled teens and troubled young adults. She was raised LDS and thought she had a strong testimony.... After 2 months of being there, a couple weeks ago, I find out that her "new" boyfriend (he is #2 in 8 weeks when she said she didnt want to have a boyfriend and wanted to concentrate on her studies) is a satanist. He's a satanist! And while I have walked away from the LDS faith, I mean, I would prefer he is an athiest. Hope not to offend anyone with those last 2 statements. She has facebook and I noticed he is on her page one night while I was bored. So I was going to show my dh who he is as they havent met yet. I didnt even have to scroll down to see his religious and political views- but she asked ME why I was snooping into his personal information!! HELLO?!?!? Anyways- sometimes its all I can do to not feel horribly guilty that my own children have indeed gotten lost in the chaos and they have suffered from the whole thing so much. I have lost a lot of years just trying to pull through the depression. I wish there would have been someone to help us. I have had times where I felt connected to my RAD children, only to discover that they were just trying to use me for something. I hope that you are able to work through it better than us. :grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I just cry while I am reading this thread. We adopted my husbands sisters 5 children, ages 10 months to 9 years old, all at the same time 13 years ago. No one told us a word about RAD. I hadnt even heard of it until about 3 years ago. We expressed to the social workers when we first got them that we were having some behavioral issues and they sent us to a class about how to do time outs!! This has been hell on earth for us. And no, no one understands. We have been judged by ignorant people everywhere. We have indeed been through hell but now there is a light at the end of the tunnel as only 2 of them live at home still. Thank God for jobcorp. I have only recently come to realize that I have done the best I can considering I had no knowledge of RAD. If only I had known. I am sad to say I would not have adopted them. My marriage has BARELY survived. If only I had even had a support group like the ladies here who know and understand, maybe it would have helped. You guys are great! :001_smile:

:grouphug:Julie:grouphug: PM me if you want. If you just need to talk. I will listen without judging.

 

You are an AMAZING woman to have raised FIVE RAD KIDS. :svengo: I can't even imagine. Raising one about did me in. The affects it's had on our family have been horrific. I hope one day my boys will understand.

 

Please try to rebuild your marriage. The divorce statistics with couples who adopt RAD kids is far, far higher than the national average.

:grouphug:I pray for healing for your entire family!

[Denisemomof4]

:iagree: I agree with what you said about sticking with the homeschooling so you can know whats going on with the child. That was one of my reasonings as well. One of my RAD children just went to the job corp at 18 years old. We had been looking forward to the bit of peace that might be restored to our home after her departure but also have worried about the choices she would make while away from home/us. Especially in the jobcorp environment- troubled teens and troubled young adults. She was raised LDS and thought she had a strong testimony.... After 2 months of being there, a couple weeks ago, I find out that her "new" boyfriend (he is #2 in 8 weeks when she said she didnt want to have a boyfriend and wanted to concentrate on her studies) is a satanist. He's a satanist! And while I have walked away from the LDS faith, I mean, I would prefer he is an athiest. Hope not to offend anyone with those last 2 statements. She has facebook and I noticed he is on her page one night while I was bored. So I was going to show my dh who he is as they havent met yet. I didnt even have to scroll down to see his religious and political views- but she asked ME why I was snooping into his personal information!! HELLO?!?!? Anyways- sometimes its all I can do to not feel horribly guilty that my own children have indeed gotten lost in the chaos and they have suffered from the whole thing so much. I have lost a lot of years just trying to pull through the depression. I wish there would have been someone to help us. I have had times where I felt connected to my RAD children, only to discover that they were just trying to use me for something. I hope that you are able to work through it better than us. :grouphug:

 

Stella, if you ever want to talk, I am here, too. My children, especially my boys, have really suffered because of us adopting our ONE RAD kid. I could NOT have handled FIVE. I just would not have been strong enough to.

 

It's been so hard. I've had so much more happen in my life these past few years and it's made dealing with my RAD child almost impossible. I've suffered the lowest of lows. But I'm thankful that we are enjoying GOOD times with her right now.

 

And I'm hoping for the same for you.:grouphug:

[sassyscrapperinid]

Stella, if you ever want to talk, I am here, too. My children, especially my boys, have really suffered because of us adopting our ONE RAD kid. I could NOT have handled FIVE. I just would not have been strong enough to.

 

It's been so hard. I've had so much more happen in my life these past few years and it's made dealing with my RAD child almost impossible. I've suffered the lowest of lows. But I'm thankful that we are enjoying GOOD times with her right now.

 

And I'm hoping for the same for you.:grouphug:

Thanks Denise. Please dont put me on a pedestal though, I have had MANY moments of breakdown that werent always pretty. Our marriage is kind of recovering... it can be very iffy. And other times it is good. Not like pre-adoption, but good for us now. I hope that it makes it. Only time will tell. Even as they move out, the issues continue to the point where we havent even spoken to the oldest of the five for over a year. She really did us in pretty good- or at least tried. Thankfully, the CPS worker and police officer saw through the lies. It was a little bit harder explaining to the IRS though. Its sad. Thanks for your good wishes. It has been nice to be able to have comfort here.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Reading this thread has confirmed to me that I am not crazy. They are different. Thank you.

[AvasMom]

And how! I had "friends" who had known me for years stop being friends with me because I was such a horrible mother. Here was this poor, sweet, beautiful orphaned child who just needed to be loved and I was SO MEAN to her!! I told such HORRIBLE LIES about the things she did and said!! I was SO SELFISH because giving I wasn't willing to give this child 100% of everything I could offer and leave nothing for the rest of my family. CLEARLY the only way this child would improve was if we catered to her every whim so she would see how much we loved her! (To their credit, I had some friends who stuck by me through the thinnest of times and never [let on that they, if they did] doubted anything I said. I will never forget these people's support.) Unless someone has dealt with a RAD child, they have NO IDEA what it's like and, frankly, their advice is generally worse than useless. Most often it's actively damaging, to the child, the mother (who usually always bears the brunt of the RAD child's behavior), and the parent/child relationship. These kids are simply NOT like other kids, and their behavior is NOT! NOT! NOT! motivated by the same things that non-RAD kids' behavior is motivated by. They are seeking something entirely different than your average non-RAD kid is seeking.

 

Tara

 

:iagree::grouphug: I have a step-dd with RAD and this is soooooooooo true!! She went to live with dh's parents when she was 10 (she's 21 now) and I didn't tell anyone in my post-step-dd life about her until about a year ago just because I was worried about the judgment we got when step-dd was around.

 

Interesting thing since you all are mentioning non-RAD therapists. My non-treated RAD step-dd is in college now...studying psychology. I'm wondering what that must be doing to her head if just having a non-RAD therapist is damaging to them. Yikes.

[FaithManor]

I've worked respite care for RAD kids so their families could have a break. It convinced me to NEVER do foster care.

 

RAD is almost beyond the comprehension of the general public, it is just that bad. I still have scars on my legs from a two hour stint with a four year old RAD boy while his parents got to go out to a movie. I don't regret helping them, not one bit. But, when you have used a sheet wrapping technique to bring the child under control so he can't hurt himself, and spend two straight hours wrestling with him, have multiple bite marks on your legs and arms - not nips, literally yanking flesh out bites - sweat is pouring off you to the point you are actually dehydrated, there are marks in the hardwood floor where you have braced yourself against his throwing himself back so you can keep your balance, and listened to a string of profanity the likes of which no army drill sergeant has ever heard, mixed with screams wishing you a heinous, hideous death over and over again, well, you just wonder how anybody can keep their sanity.

 

Then, when you go over there again so you can help so that the mom can have much needed surgery and this same four year old looks at you with innocent, angelic, "what me" eyes, that truly look as though there is no memory of the event, throws his arms around you, hugs you, tells you he loves you, and within an hour is trying to attack you with a pair of scissors that his visiting college student sib inadvertently left in his backpack, though there is a sign on the front and back doors of the house that no one may enter with any sharp objects...literally begging people to check their pockets, coats, purses, etc. and leave a huge list of items locked in their car, and then you've listened to this same kid two hours later, like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, beg you for ice cream and ask for a bedtime story, and then spend two hours seriously consider bungie cords, handcuffs, and whatever else you can dream up to keep him from insisting on killing the family dog - who was eventually gotten rid of because he nearly accomplished that task - well, you go home with a bone tired exhaustion that absolutely no human being can comprehend until they have done walked a mile in your shoes.

 

We need more residential treatment programs for children.

 

To all of you attempting to raise a RAD child, you are not a failure, you are a saint, a hero, a member of a nobler class than I!!!!! Don't let anybody disparage you, demean you, or hurt you. You are AWESOME!!!!

 

Faith

[happyhomemaker25]

I've worked respite care for RAD kids so their families could have a break. It convinced me to NEVER do foster care.

 

RAD is almost beyond the comprehension of the general public, it is just that bad. I still have scars on my legs from a two hour stint with a four year old RAD boy while his parents got to go out to a movie. I don't regret helping them, not one bit. But, when you have used a sheet wrapping technique to bring the child under control so he can't hurt himself, and spend two straight hours wrestling with him, have multiple bite marks on your legs and arms - not nips, literally yanking flesh out bites - sweat is pouring off you to the point you are actually dehydrated, there are marks in the hardwood floor where you have braced yourself against his throwing himself back so you can keep your balance, and listened to a string of profanity the likes of which no army drill sergeant has ever heard, mixed with screams wishing you a heinous, hideous death over and over again, well, you just wonder how anybody can keep their sanity.

 

Then, when you go over there again so you can help so that the mom can have much needed surgery and this same four year old looks at you with innocent, angelic, "what me" eyes, that truly look as though there is no memory of the event, throws his arms around you, hugs you, tells you he loves you, and within an hour is trying to attack you with a pair of scissors that his visiting college student sib inadvertently left in his backpack, though there is a sign on the front and back doors of the house that no one may enter with any sharp objects...literally begging people to check their pockets, coats, purses, etc. and leave a huge list of items locked in their car, and then you've listened to this same kid two hours later, like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, beg you for ice cream and ask for a bedtime story, and then spend two hours seriously consider bungie cords, handcuffs, and whatever else you can dream up to keep him from insisting on killing the family dog - who was eventually gotten rid of because he nearly accomplished that task - well, you go home with a bone tired exhaustion that absolutely no human being can comprehend until they have done walked a mile in your shoes.

 

We need more residential treatment programs for children.

 

To all of you attempting to raise a RAD child, you are not a failure, you are a saint, a hero, a member of a nobler class than I!!!!! Don't let anybody disparage you, demean you, or hurt you. You are AWESOME!!!!

 

Faith

 

But see, this is some of what I struggle with. I have a friend whose daughter is such a worse case than mine. Here I deal with lying, deception, stealing, and disobedience. She is not violent. She can have a normal few months where everything is fine. She was never officially diagnosed with R.A.D. I just know everything I read rang true. Especially the victim mentality and the hostility towards the mom that was for my eyes only. My husband literally could not understand what I was talking about until one day he stayed home from work sick. She did not know he was asleep in the bedroom. She got mad at me started yelling and tipped the school table over. Dh stormed out of the bedroom and you should have seen the look on her face. You could tell she never meant for him to see her that way. I am so fortunate that he always believed me and has always stood behind me. That day was a real turning point though. With him being unemployed the last two years he has really seen it up close and personal.

But then I read about situations above and I wonder what I am complaining about. She is just not that bad.

I can't imagine a child like that. Seriously.

For me it's just the willful disobedience and the lies that come out of her mouth everyday that wear me out. It's the lack of repentance or taking responsibility for herself and her actions. I just can't connect with her on that level.

I just don't know.

My heart goes out to you all. I don't know about you but I sometimes feel like she robbed me of being the mom I always dreamed I could be. I knew it would not be sunshine and roses but I never dreamed I would say some of the things I say. I never dreamed I would lie down at night sometimes in tears because I literally hated my daughter.

Yes, I need some time away but it's so hard to leave her with anyone who will not watch her every move. If she gets away with one little thing it's like this huge victory for her and she ramps her misbehavior up a notch.

My mom is starting to understand some, but even she can't see the need to treat her like a 4 year old. My mom thinks that my daughter is a mature 14 year old and should have the freedom a normal 14 year old would have. Still she is the only person I ever leave my daughter with besides my husband, because while my mom does not agree with everything we say she believes me and will keep my daughter nearby.

It's just to hard to get back on track if she goes with someone else who dotes on her, believes the sweet persona she puts on for them, and lets her have a lot of freedom.

It does feel like I am holding the ropes to tightly sometimes, but then I know what happens when I give her some slack and I just can't bring myself to put my family through that. I know people on the outside think I am overbearing overprotective control freak mother and I so feel that way sometimes. I've just seen the end result. It's horrible.

How am I ever going to let her go?? She'll be 18 in a few short years. I think we are both (she and I) counting down the days that she can move out. But then what? How do I stand back and watch the downward spiral?? I know people will blame me for not letting her have more freedom growing up. Of course that's why she is running wild at 18.

I just don't know what to do!!

[Denisemomof4]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:I have gotten a TON of advice from my online support groups and here. One dear woman here responded to one of my threads and told me plainly and simply that I had done so much for my dd and that it was time for me to step back and stop doing all that I was. It was this advice that was SO helpful. I told my dd that I was done, that it was up to her to change. Ultimately, your dd needs to want to change or else NOTHING you do will help her or make a difference. Not therapy, nothing.

 

If your dd runs wild at 18, you're just going to have to block out everyone's ignorant remarks. They will never understand. YOU know that you've done all you could and you need to give yourself credit for that.

 

I can read your inner turmoil and I can relate to it so well. It's SO difficult. I truly try not to care what other's think anymore but I do have days were it's just hard.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[FaithManor]

Julie, I know you are thankful you don't have a violent RAD. But, listen what you are dealing wtih is equally HEINOUS! It's mind boggling and it's almost worse than the violence.

 

With a violent RAD kid, everyone, the neighbors, the cops, the social workers, the therapists, our friends, your family, everybody gets it because it has morphed into an exterior, proveable behavior. It can't be ignored anymore.

 

But, if it doesn't take that form, then it's maddening, completely and utterly maddening. It's insidious because these kids are psychotic and they know how to play people, the system...they know how to garner sympathy and they know how to cut their family to the quick. It is every bit as bad as the kids who have made it to the violent level except that because they haven't deteriorated to that point, society is SNOWED! It's the wild, physical, I want to murder the family dog behavior and attack my mother with whatever I can find while standing in the grocery store because you dared deny me a candy bar, that gets the attention of the "experts". Otherwise everyone just can't imagine how such a sweet, angelic babe could possibly be so damaged, therefore it just must be somebody's fault and you are that somebody. I think what you are dealing with is actually worse because there isn't any help for that. The particular 4 year old I sited above, was eventually tucked away in a residential treatment center, pretty much permanently, and the state is paying for it.

 

I truly believe that RAD families suffer in virtual silence because no one comprehends or is willing to comprehend just how mentally ill a child can be unless or until it takes it's violent form.

 

I still stand by my assertion that you are all heroes. More so to those whose children aren't violent becase your child does not exhibit behaviors in front of the public that confirms the depth of their illness. So know one believes you.

 

The worst respite I've suffered was not the above little boy...him, I could see that coming and gear up for it. It was the teens...the lying, twisted, mentally fragmented, manipulative, teens. They were the worst. Every weekend I gave respite was an exercise in keeping my sanity and keeping them from ending up at the neighbors making wild accusations. They were always determined to get a reaction, to get me riled, to get me to lose control, to push me to the limits emotionally...never physically. I used to laughlingly tell DH that my friend P (foster mom) and I had chosen our outfits carefully so we'd look good when we were hauled to jail. It was much needed levity and yet, not that much of a joke either. Those teens could accuse us of the wildest, most improbable things, and I'm convinced that the neighbors, social workers, police, school, .... would have all bought it.

 

So again, I stand by ALL of you!

 

Faith

[Ottakee]

: One dear woman here responded to one of my threads and told me plainly and simply that I had done so much for my dd and that it was time for me to step back and stop doing all that I was. It was this advice that was SO helpful. I told my dd that I was done, that it was up to her to change. Ultimately, your dd needs to want to change or else NOTHING you do will help her or make a difference. Not therapy, nothing.

 

 

 

This was along my lines of thinking as well. I have seen with some kids that there is just a point where they are better off NOT in a home setting. It doesn't mean you aren't their parents but rather that you are parenting from afar. Some of these kids do do well in a residential or "boot camp" type setting where there isn't the pressure to attach but still the rules and structure.

 

I remember our RAD therapist one time telling us that for some kids, it is enough that we are there for them to visit on holidays. Sad but true.

 

While in our our case, it was more bipolar than RAD, I have done respite for some RAD kids in our support group and those parents are doing all they can for the kids.

[Rose in BC]

But see, this is some of what I struggle with. I have a friend whose daughter is such a worse case than mine. Here I deal with lying, deception, stealing, and disobedience. She is not violent. She can have a normal few months where everything is fine. She was never officially diagnosed with R.A.D. I just know everything I read rang true. Especially the victim mentality and the hostility towards the mom that was for my eyes only. My husband literally could not understand what I was talking about until one day he stayed home from work sick. She did not know he was asleep in the bedroom. She got mad at me started yelling and tipped the school table over. Dh stormed out of the bedroom and you should have seen the look on her face. You could tell she never meant for him to see her that way. I am so fortunate that he always believed me and has always stood behind me. That day was a real turning point though. With him being unemployed the last two years he has really seen it up close and personal.

But then I read about situations above and I wonder what I am complaining about. She is just not that bad.

I can't imagine a child like that. Seriously.

For me it's just the willful disobedience and the lies that come out of her mouth everyday that wear me out. It's the lack of repentance or taking responsibility for herself and her actions. I just can't connect with her on that level.

I just don't know.

My heart goes out to you all. I don't know about you but I sometimes feel like she robbed me of being the mom I always dreamed I could be. I knew it would not be sunshine and roses but I never dreamed I would say some of the things I say. I never dreamed I would lie down at night sometimes in tears because I literally hated my daughter.

Yes, I need some time away but it's so hard to leave her with anyone who will not watch her every move. If she gets away with one little thing it's like this huge victory for her and she ramps her misbehavior up a notch.

My mom is starting to understand some, but even she can't see the need to treat her like a 4 year old. My mom thinks that my daughter is a mature 14 year old and should have the freedom a normal 14 year old would have. Still she is the only person I ever leave my daughter with besides my husband, because while my mom does not agree with everything we say she believes me and will keep my daughter nearby.

It's just to hard to get back on track if she goes with someone else who dotes on her, believes the sweet persona she puts on for them, and lets her have a lot of freedom.

It does feel like I am holding the ropes to tightly sometimes, but then I know what happens when I give her some slack and I just can't bring myself to put my family through that. I know people on the outside think I am overbearing overprotective control freak mother and I so feel that way sometimes. I've just seen the end result. It's horrible.

How am I ever going to let her go?? She'll be 18 in a few short years. I think we are both (she and I) counting down the days that she can move out. But then what? How do I stand back and watch the downward spiral?? I know people will blame me for not letting her have more freedom growing up. Of course that's why she is running wild at 18.

I just don't know what to do!!

 

This is how I have felt over the years too. I knew things weren't right but my boy isn't violent, loves our pets, etc. His violence is his mouth which, when he's in a rage, is venomous. And his disobedience. And is lack of care for school, etc. But the reality is these symptoms have turned our "normal" home into craziness, its turned my dh and I against each other as we have tried to figure out how to parent this child (against each other because the discussion always turns to what one parent isn't doing right, etc.), its robbed us of much peace, and caused me to feel guilt for the other two kids who witness the craziness. (And you live in fear wondering if its this bad now, will it get worse in the future.)

 

So, do others have it worse. Absolutely. But that doesn't minimize the havoc our child wreaks on our home. (And, btw, when I say his mouth is venomous, people may say, oh is that all . . . you have no idea how defeating a child, who you love with all your heart, can be so cruel. And then, when its over, you have to gather them up and love them even more . . . even when you don't feel like it.)

 

Ironically, our circumstances are similar in that my dh didn't witness the full strength of our son's wrath until he became unemployed early 2010.

[Rose in BC]

Julie, I just wanted to thank you for posting your original post. We have felt so alone over the years. Thank you for starting this conversation.

[Denisemomof4]

Julie, I know you are thankful you don't have a violent RAD. But, listen what you are dealing wtih is equally HEINOUS! It's mind boggling and it's almost worse than the violence.

 

With a violent RAD kid, everyone, the neighbors, the cops, the social workers, the therapists, our friends, your family, everybody gets it because it has morphed into an exterior, proveable behavior. It can't be ignored anymore.

 

But, if it doesn't take that form, then it's maddening, completely and utterly maddening. It's insidious because these kids are psychotic and they know how to play people, the system...they know how to garner sympathy and they know how to cut their family to the quick. It is every bit as bad as the kids who have made it to the violent level except that because they haven't deteriorated to that point, society is SNOWED! It's the wild, physical, I want to murder the family dog behavior and attack my mother with whatever I can find while standing in the grocery store because you dared deny me a candy bar, that gets the attention of the "experts". Otherwise everyone just can't imagine how such a sweet, angelic babe could possibly be so damaged, therefore it just must be somebody's fault and you are that somebody. I think what you are dealing with is actually worse because there isn't any help for that. The particular 4 year old I sited above, was eventually tucked away in a residential treatment center, pretty much permanently, and the state is paying for it.

 

I truly believe that RAD families suffer in virtual silence because no one comprehends or is willing to comprehend just how mentally ill a child can be unless or until it takes it's violent form.

 

I still stand by my assertion that you are all heroes. More so to those whose children aren't violent becase your child does not exhibit behaviors in front of the public that confirms the depth of their illness. So know one believes you.

 

The worst respite I've suffered was not the above little boy...him, I could see that coming and gear up for it. It was the teens...the lying, twisted, mentally fragmented, manipulative, teens. They were the worst. Every weekend I gave respite was an exercise in keeping my sanity and keeping them from ending up at the neighbors making wild accusations. They were always determined to get a reaction, to get me riled, to get me to lose control, to push me to the limits emotionally...never physically. I used to laughlingly tell DH that my friend P (foster mom) and I had chosen our outfits carefully so we'd look good when we were hauled to jail. It was much needed levity and yet, not that much of a joke either. Those teens could accuse us of the wildest, most improbable things, and I'm convinced that the neighbors, social workers, police, school, .... would have all bought it.

 

So again, I stand by ALL of you!

 

Faith

 

this is ABSOLUTELY true. You are 100% correct.

 

While my dd did act out violently with two things (twisting my already sprained ankle, landing me in the hospital, and trying to kill the cat) she did it in ways that looked like ABSOLUTE accidents. She's SOOOOO good at that and absolutely BELIEVABLE. I had to get to a point to where NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENED, I had to believe it was a deliberate act. NO accidents. That turned MANY things around.

 

Other than the above, my dd is completely inhibited. She has never ONCE shown anger. EVER. She's been in my home for 7 years and I've never ONCE seen this child angry. She is sneaky and manipulative to the core of her being. The wild accusations that come out of her are stunning and frightening. I would NEVER leave her with someone because I have to protect the safety of my other kids. I fear leaving her with ANYONE would land the police at our doorstep. Since she could talk she has been alleging our family does things that we simply NEVER have done. EVER.

 

I questioned my sanity MANY times. It was maddening. I started to doubt myself. But after my mother died and I was too exhausted for the RAD dance, I just got to a point where I held EVERY SINGLE ACTION accountable. It's so beyond exhausting and nobody could ever understand that. Can you imagine not being able to go to the bathroom alone? I just started to take showers alone in the past year when we put an alarm on her bedroom door.

 

Her sweet, angelic ways have fooled EVERYONE, and she's so good that she even plays ME and causes disruption with my kids WHILE I'M IN THE SAME ROOM and I don't even know it - she's THAT good. My 15 yos is the one who blew up a few months back because of what she was doing WITH ME IN THE ROOM and I had NO idea. Dd11 has been her target for about a year now. I regularly have to take her away for respite for HER.

 

I truly believe the type of RAD you're dealing with, as am I, is the most maddening form. I agree with Faith 100%. It's mind boggling to think of the things my dd schemes silently, lying in wait to be able to strike. And she's done this since we got her at 14 months of age.