Reevaluating/rebuilding my faith (CC) (long)

[Hunter's Moon]

I have reservations about posting this but really don’t know what else to do. I’ve gotten great spiritual advice here before, so I hope I’m not pushing it.

 

Background: Attended non-denominational (charismatic) church from about the age of 5 to the age of 13. There I saw (and experienced) lying, hypocrisy, rudeness, gossiping, etc. Some even from the pastor and his wife. I know this is quite common, but I feel it has destroyed whatever faith I had left (not that I really had much to begin with). I prayed to God because I was told to. My parents never really spoke about religion with us and I don’t really like talking about anything spiritual/religious/personal with them.

 

There are many things in the Christian Bible that I can absolutely not believe, no matter how I look at it or try. I prefer not to mention specifically what those things are, but I suppose if you would like to discuss them with me, I’d welcome a PM. I just really don’t want to offend anyone and some are personal (not “painful memories personal,†more like “I know many people on here don’t know if they should discuss them with someone else’s child personalâ€).

 

I don’t want to be one of those people from my old church. Not that there weren’t some truly good people, I mean the ones who showed up for whatever reason just to lie, hurt others, and gossip. I feel like I can’t call myself a Christian knowing that I don’t believe certain things in the Bible. I don’t want to pick and choose and I’m sick of trying to rationalize what I’m picking and choosing. Some of it is core beliefs of most denominations (if not all). I’m not talking the commandments, more like things in the New Testament that could have been misinterpreted when translated (or I’m telling myself that anyways to make myself feel better).

 

I’ve seen some posts (some recent, some archived, some older) where people say they threw away the beliefs they grew up with and rebuilt it all. They still consider themselves Christian but aren’t what would be called mainstream. I would especially love stories about this. I’m sort of going this way now and would love some stories from those who’ve finished “the journey†and what helped them get through those tougher times.

 

I love things about almost every denomination, but I want one denomination where I can fit in, call it “home,†and feel welcomed always. I feel a stronger pull towards some denominations over others, but I feel I need to sort through what *I* believe before I start adding in what certain denominations believe.

 

I respect those who are strong in their faiths and beliefs, no matter what religion or denomination. I really want that. I need something outside of myself and outside of this world to believe in. I’ve looked into countless other religions and the only ones that really ring true for me are the ones that have one God. I want that close, loving relationship that so many others have whether they are polytheistic, monotheistic, not sure what religion they even are but know what they believe. I want a strong faith as I begin my adult life, when I settle down and have children, and beyond.

 

I appreciate any experiences, book suggestions, whatever from anyone but please no debates or anything rude. And if you have gotten this far, you’re a wonderful, wonderful person and I appreciate any time you take to help me through this. Sorry if this seems disjointed and if anything isn't making any sense ask and I'll try to clarify best I can.

 

PM’s are welcome as well.

[LG Gone Wild]

My fav. book is Mere Christianity. And, in general, you have to use your *reason* to evaluate what is true and what is not. Whatever conclusion you reach, let that be your guide (i.e. this is the truth) rather than how wretched some practitioners are.

[ktgrok]

I have a feeling there are denominations where you would fit in. If you can share the "core beliefs" that you are not comfortable with I bet I could name some. You may need to find a more liberal denomination, one that believes that yes, Jesus is Savior, but the men that wrote the Bible were of a certain place and time and that influenced what they wrote.

 

Edited to add: if you really don't feel ok sharing here, please PM me. I bet I can help.

[milovany]

We have a charismatic background too. While we thought it was the fullness of the faith at the time, it seemed like we were always waiting, longing, hoping for the Holy Spirit to arrive on the scene in a tangible, powerful way. Yes, we believed in miracles, yes we believed God answers prayer (and sometimes those things did happen!), but it seemed more often than not we were calling out to God, "Come, Lord -- we're waiting, we're here, we know you are big and can do it/show up/meet us here, yes, Lord, we're waiting, we'll be here as long as we need to be because we believe in you and that you're good, we're here Lord! Come, Holy Spirit, we're waiting on you .... " You know? And this wasn't just in one church, but in church after church after church. My husband says he got to the point where he was saying, "Lord, I don't get it. I don't have it. We've been waiting a long time. If *I* don't get to know your fullness, at least let our kids find it."

 

Another aspect to our faith was always trying to figure out what the Scriptures meant about something. It seemed the daily/active part of our faith was doing word studies/Bible studies so we could see what the Lord was saying to us. I could see that we came to some Biblical conclusions that we wholeheartedly believed in -- but others studied the same topics and came to different conclusions. So (as a natural result), we were spending our energies judging ourselves and others (esp. others, because of course we were right!), instead of just WORSHIPING the Almighty King.

 

Our change came when we walked away from mainstream Christianity (as that word is used here in America). The last song we remember singing in a protestant church was something that included the phrase, "Overflow your [river] bank into my life." Dh said, "Shouldn't we be getting into God's river instead of asking Him to meet us where we are?" We were done.

 

Soon after that we began reading about the ancient church and faith. We were astounded. We'd never once before heard that church history can be known and that it matters what happened as the church developed. We'd always figured "God is doing a new thing -- what happened in the past isn't relevant for today!" But that completely changed.

 

You say you've looked into a lot of denominations. Have you looked into the pre-denominational church? This means the church that existed before all the fractured thousands of denominations came on the scene? Historically speaking that will mean Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. There was a time when these two were one (pre-1054 A.D.) -- the "one holy, catholic and apostolic church" of the Nicene Creed. I'd never known that before! At that point (1054 A.D.), they did go through a schism, into the RC and EO churches, and so for us we had to decide which of these two were most like the original church, and (again, for us) Eastern Orthodoxy won hands down.

 

We no longer had to make the church fit us. We didn't have to look for like-minded people. We were done judging others for their decisions and beliefs (well, we're trying to be done with that! ;)). There was just this ancient church that has existed for 2000 years, to which people just come. We don't innovate, experiment, have theological debates, etc. We just worship God in the liturgical environment that we believe the Holy Spirit developed through the early church. My most recent Facebook post about this said, "The fullness of the Trinity, heaven touching earth. Every Sunday, every Divine Liturgy, without fail." The charismatic in me is thrilled to no longer be wondering, waiting, hoping.

 

So, that's my story. I hope you also find God, in His fullness, on your journey.

 

ETA -- If you want to PM me with these beliefs that you're talking about, I can let you know (as far as I know) if they fit in with the EO faith.

Edited April 5, 2011 by milovaný

[AuntieM]

:grouphug:Hey Steph, I remember when you were asking about this a while back. I am glad you are still actively seeking. I will pray for your journey.

 

I can't say that I have "arrived," but in the last few years I have spent time really examining what I believe about God. I know He has an unshakeable, beloved hold on me! I still have lots of questions myself, but I feel secure regarding my standing before Him. I, too, have witnessed and been impacted by the actions of Christians whose behavior and motives were not Christlike. It *truly* hurts. Of course you feel wounded by it. I pray that you will be able to separate those hurtful memories from the Truth of who Christ really is.

 

I am excited for you -- you are on a journey that I didn't start until I was probably near three times your age! I can't remember if I recommended this book to you earlier, but you might want to take a look at How to Be Your Own Selfish Pig by Susan Schaeffer MacCauley.

[texasmama]

I’ve seen some posts (some recent, some archived, some older) where people say they threw away the beliefs they grew up with and rebuilt it all. They still consider themselves Christian but aren’t what would be called mainstream. I would especially love stories about this. I’m sort of going this way now and would love some stories from those who’ve finished “the journey†and what helped them get through those tougher times.

 

This was me, my dear. IS me, I suppose. You are young and are doing what one does in one's youth quite naturally. As you can see (read), many of us do it later when it is more complicated, I think. However you do it, though, I have come to believe that people will most certainly fail you, even the most wonderful, kind, Christian people. And God doesn't mind questions. ;) Also, the older I get, the less I understand/know, particularly about faith-related things. Don't let that stop you from seeking. Sometimes the answers are found in the seeking, not the knowing. Don't be afraid. My husband is always praying for me and when I ask him what he prays for, he says that he asks God to show me how much He loves me. I will pray that for you. That is all you really need to know, I think.:grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

Are you looking for structure? Or looking for somewhere to belong with flexible beliefs?

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

[Hunter's Moon]

My fav. book is Mere Christianity. And, in general, you have to use your *reason* to evaluate what is true and what is not. Whatever conclusion you reach, let that be your guide (i.e. this is the truth) rather than how wretched some practitioners are.

 

I appreciate your thoughts.

 

I found this book at the library but unfortunately wasn't able to get around to reading it before it was due. I'll have to request it again.

 

Thanks for the book recommendation :001_smile:

 

I have a feeling there are denominations where you would fit in. If you can share the "core beliefs" that you are not comfortable with I bet I could name some. You may need to find a more liberal denomination, one that believes that yes, Jesus is Savior, but the men that wrote the Bible were of a certain place and time and that influenced what they wrote.

 

Edited to add: if you really don't feel ok sharing here, please PM me. I bet I can help.

 

PM'd you :001_smile:

 

We have a charismatic background too. While we thought it was the fullness of the faith at the time, it seemed like we were always waiting, longing, hoping for the Holy Spirit to arrive on the scene in a tangible, powerful way. Yes, we believed in miracles, yes we believed God answers prayer (and sometimes those things did happen!), but it seemed more often than not we were calling out to God, "Come, Lord -- we're waiting, we're here, we know you are big and can do it/show up/meet us here, yes, Lord, we're waiting, we'll be here as long as we need to be because we believe in you and that you're good, we're here Lord! Come, Holy Spirit, we're waiting on you .... " You know? And this wasn't just in one church, but in church after church after church. My husband says he got to the point where he was saying, "Lord, I don't get it. I don't have it. We've been waiting a long time. If *I* don't get to know your fullness, at least let our kids find it."

 

Another aspect to our faith was always trying to figure out what the Scriptures meant about something. It seemed the daily/active part of our faith was doing word studies/Bible studies so we could see what the Lord was saying to us. I could see that we came to some Biblical conclusions that we wholeheartedly believed in -- but others studied the same topics and came to different conclusions. So (as a natural result), we were spending our energies judging ourselves and others (esp. others, because of course we were right!), instead of just WORSHIPING the Almighty King.

 

Our change came when we walked away from mainstream Christianity (as that word is used here in America). The last song we remember singing in a protestant church was something that included the phrase, "Overflow your [river] bank into my life." Dh said, "Shouldn't we be getting into God's river instead of asking Him to meet us where we are?" We were done.

 

Soon after that we began reading about the ancient church and faith. We were astounded. We'd never once before heard that church history can be known and that it matters what happened as the church developed. We'd always figured "God is doing a new thing -- what happened in the past isn't relevant for today!" But that completely changed.

 

You say you've looked into a lot of denominations. Have you looked into the pre-denominational church? This means the church that existed before all the fractured thousands of denominations came on the scene? Historically speaking that will mean Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. There was a time when these two were one (pre-1054 A.D.) -- the "one holy, catholic and apostolic church" of the Nicene Creed. I'd never known that before! At that point (1054 A.D.), they did go through a schism, into the RC and EO churches, and so for us we had to decide which of these two were most like the original church, and (again, for us) Eastern Orthodoxy won hands down.

 

We no longer had to make the church fit us. We didn't have to look for like-minded people. We were done judging others for their decisions and beliefs (well, we're trying to be done with that! ;)). There was just this ancient church that has existed for 2000 years, to which people just come. We don't innovate, experiment, have theological debates, etc. We just worship God in the liturgical environment that we believe the Holy Spirit developed through the early church. My most recent Facebook post about this said, "The fullness of the Trinity, heaven touching earth. Every Sunday, every Divine Liturgy, without fail." The charismatic in me is thrilled to no longer be wondering, waiting, hoping.

 

So, that's my story. I hope you also find God, in His fullness, on your journey.

 

ETA -- If you want to PM me with these beliefs that you're talking about, I can let you know (as far as I know) if they fit in with the EO faith.

 

Thanks for your reply. I always enjoy reading your posts on the EO faith.

 

I had looked into it a little while back, but then my faith faltered even more and I never really got a chance to give it a good hard look.

 

Once I get a better footing, I will definitely look more in-depth to this church. I've been to a few RC services, and they are just gorgeous. I love the tradition (and how old it is!) and the ritual of it all. It isn't automatic, more like mesmerizing.

 

Thanks!

[Hunter's Moon]

:grouphug:Hey Steph, I remember when you were asking about this a while back. I am glad you are still actively seeking. I will pray for your journey.

 

I can't say that I have "arrived," but in the last few years I have spent time really examining what I believe about God. I know He has an unshakeable, beloved hold on me! I still have lots of questions myself, but I feel secure regarding my standing before Him. I, too, have witnessed and been impacted by the actions of Christians whose behavior and motives were not Christlike. It *truly* hurts. Of course you feel wounded by it. I pray that you will be able to separate those hurtful memories from the Truth of who Christ really is.

 

I am excited for you -- you are on a journey that I didn't start until I was probably near three times your age! I can't remember if I recommended this book to you earlier, but you might want to take a look at How to Be Your Own Selfish Pig by Susan Schaeffer MacCauley.

 

Thanks, I appreciate this. Thanks for the book recommendation as well. While I can't say I'm enjoying the journey, I can appreciate it and appreciate those who have gone through it.

 

It is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do.

 

Thanks :001_smile:

 

This was me, my dear. IS me, I suppose. You are young and are doing what one does in one's youth quite naturally. As you can see (read), many of us do it later when it is more complicated, I think. However you do it, though, I have come to believe that people will most certainly fail you, even the most wonderful, kind, Christian people. And God doesn't mind questions. ;) Also, the older I get, the less I understand/know, particularly about faith-related things. Don't let that stop you from seeking. Sometimes the answers are found in the seeking, not the knowing. Don't be afraid. My husband is always praying for me and when I ask him what he prays for, he says that he asks God to show me how much He loves me. I will pray that for you. That is all you really need to know, I think.:grouphug:

 

I thank you for the advice and prayers. They are a comfort to me. :001_smile:

 

Are you looking for structure? Or looking for somewhere to belong with flexible beliefs?

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

 

Ugh, this is what I struggle with also, LOL.

 

I can see why I would need both at this point in my life.

 

I think a place to "belong" right now is right whether there is structure or flexibility. As long as there is support and room for personal growth.

 

I'm not sure that I'm making much sense though.

 

I have been looking for a UU church in my community though, so maybe I'll finally have to take the plunge and check one out, though the one around here requires an interview. Not sure if that is normal of all UU. Not like an interview to be accepted, but one to be published in their newsletter so others can get to know you.

 

:001_smile:

[Rosie_0801]

Ugh, this is what I struggle with also, LOL.

 

I can see why I would need both at this point in my life.

 

I think a place to "belong" right now is right whether there is structure or flexibility. As long as there is support and room for personal growth.

 

I'm not sure that I'm making much sense though.

 

I have been looking for a UU church in my community though, so maybe I'll finally have to take the plunge and check one out, though the one around here requires an interview. Not sure if that is normal of all UU. Not like an interview to be accepted, but one to be published in their newsletter so others can get to know you.

 

:001_smile:

 

It sounds like UU would be good for you in the NOW :)

 

Requiring a monotheistic religion doesn't narrow it down a whole lot, does it?

 

The various flavours of Christianity, Judaism, Islam (Did you read the recent posts by the ladies who converted from Christianity to Islam? They were interesting stories :) ), Ba'hai (actually they might suit you nicely. Someone on here is Ba'hai. Negan, is it? Mental block, I can't remember.) There are plenty of pagan monotheists. Hey, even the Hindus are monotheists. They just don't look like it at first glance.

 

Rosie

[Ibbygirl]

I don't know if I really have any advice for you, but I wanted to come and give you some hugs. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I haven't been where you are so I don't feel qualified to answer your questions, but a verse that burned in my mind as I read your post was this one from Jeremiah.

 

Jeremiah 29:11-13 (New King James Version)

 

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

 

I believe that verse wholeheartedly. I think if you truly seek and search with all your heart you will find Him at the end of it. I wish you well in your searching. I hope that you find what you seeking. God bless you sweetheart! :grouphug: :grouphug:

[JenniferB]

:grouphug: I have to get to bed, and I wanted to send a hug before bed. I'll write more tomorrow.

[Mama Geek]

It is 4:15 am here and after waking up with dd I couldn't go back to sleep so hang in there and hopefully I will make some sense.

 

I was much more liberal in my beliefs when I was young. I had a hard time believing and following some of the things that the bible taught. I married fairly young (just turned 20) and had lots of problems with dh for the first several years. He was more conservative than I was and we clashed over several things. In my journey over the last 16 years we have been married I have spent a lot of time in prayer, in studying the bible and in spending time in deep discussions with people that were strong in their Christian faith. I worked with a bunch of conservative guys with backgrounds in different conservative denominations. Eventually I started to change. A lot of the things in the bible that I didn't agree with when I was younger started to make so much more sense to me. I saw people who truly believed the bible and how God worked in their lives and their families lives.

 

I then had a wonderful Pastor for about 2 years that helped my dh and I significantly. We both had a lot of baggage from our childhood. I came from a family of divorce and had a real hard time trusting anyone. He helped us both to learn how to relate to see the problems that we had and how to approach each other differently when we saw signs of those problems starting to happen.

 

My faith in the bible and it being the truth is much stronger now that what it was. There are still things that I struggle with, I have a hard time with not knowing God's plan and wanting to make my own, but I now recognize that as something imperfect in me that needs work.

 

As far as people go...we are sinners, no one can live up to the standards in the bible. This is why Christ came to earth and died on the cross. I fail daily and I ask God for forgiveness (probably less often than I should) and I believe in repentance and forgiveness of sins.

 

I hope you find your way to Christ and can see past the failings of his people.

 

I hope that sharing my experiences with you will help some. If you have any questions please feel free to pm me.

[mamajudy]

Plaese don't give up on Christianity just yet. Instead of focusing on the faults of mere sinners, focus on God and His love for you. Have you been reading your Bible? Ask God to help you understand, and search the scritures daily for wisdom and understanding (Acts 17:11). Praying for you.

[....]

I probaby should just pm you. :glare: Anyway, I'll keep it brief.

 

I grew up in a very strict fundamentalist church. By about 16-17, I considered myself an atheist. This went on for about 5 years or so?

 

It helps to rethink EVERYTHING from the beginning. Question everything. You can't be a Jesus robot. The other lady suggested C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity - that's a good one. A Case for Christ and A Case for Faith are also really good - they're written by a man who was also an atheist.

 

Read through the 4 gospels with an open mind. They paint a portrait of Jesus. Pay attention to what he says - especially when he confronts religious people. I also think Jesus basically gave us the Sermon on the Mount as a summary for what we need to know.

 

You can start looking for a denomination that fits what you're looking for - if you want to go to church again. If church has been too damaging to your faith, then I would stay away. I would just worship/study on my own. If a church is destroying people's faith in Christ, then it is BAD. There are lots of things you could do on your own for a while and I think God completely understands.

 

If you're looking into any of the Lutheran denominations, there's a new book called Lutheranism 101 that goes into the basic "what we believe and WHY" (the why is very important). I'm constantly reading about religion and I still learned stuff from that book.

 

I also have a lot of respect for the Roman Catholic church. There are probably plenty of people who could help you there.

 

There are lots of possiblities.

 

Don't give up on your search!

[Parrothead]

Here is a comparison chart of Christian core beliefs.

 

If you ever delve very deeply into the Catholic faith and have questions I'll be glad to help.

 

Otherwise you've been given some great advice. I really have nothing else to add.

 

:grouphug:

[3lilreds in NC]

:grouphug: Pm'ing you.

[SailorMom]

I also think a UU would be a great place to start.

Also, check into "Christian Deism", or just deism itself. I was in many ways in the same place as you about 4 years ago. It was very difficult to admit to myself that I was not Christian (and had never been). It was such a cultural part of my life,,,, Ever since I really determined what it is I do believe, I've been a much happier and spiritual person.

:grouphug:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have reservations about posting this but really don’t know what else to do. I’ve gotten great spiritual advice here before, so I hope I’m not pushing it.

 

Background: Attended non-denominational (charismatic) church from about the age of 5 to the age of 13. There I saw (and experienced) lying, hypocrisy, rudeness, gossiping, etc. Some even from the pastor and his wife. I know this is quite common, but I feel it has destroyed whatever faith I had left (not that I really had much to begin with). I prayed to God because I was told to. My parents never really spoke about religion with us and I don’t really like talking about anything spiritual/religious/personal with them.

 

There are many things in the Christian Bible that I can absolutely not believe, no matter how I look at it or try. I prefer not to mention specifically what those things are, but I suppose if you would like to discuss them with me, I’d welcome a PM. I just really don’t want to offend anyone and some are personal (not “painful memories personal,†more like “I know many people on here don’t know if they should discuss them with someone else’s child personalâ€).

 

I don’t want to be one of those people from my old church. Not that there weren’t some truly good people, I mean the ones who showed up for whatever reason just to lie, hurt others, and gossip. I feel like I can’t call myself a Christian knowing that I don’t believe certain things in the Bible. I don’t want to pick and choose and I’m sick of trying to rationalize what I’m picking and choosing. Some of it is core beliefs of most denominations (if not all). I’m not talking the commandments, more like things in the New Testament that could have been misinterpreted when translated (or I’m telling myself that anyways to make myself feel better).

 

I’ve seen some posts (some recent, some archived, some older) where people say they threw away the beliefs they grew up with and rebuilt it all. They still consider themselves Christian but aren’t what would be called mainstream. I would especially love stories about this. I’m sort of going this way now and would love some stories from those who’ve finished “the journey†and what helped them get through those tougher times.

 

I love things about almost every denomination, but I want one denomination where I can fit in, call it “home,†and feel welcomed always. I feel a stronger pull towards some denominations over others, but I feel I need to sort through what *I* believe before I start adding in what certain denominations believe.

 

I respect those who are strong in their faiths and beliefs, no matter what religion or denomination. I really want that. I need something outside of myself and outside of this world to believe in. I’ve looked into countless other religions and the only ones that really ring true for me are the ones that have one God. I want that close, loving relationship that so many others have whether they are polytheistic, monotheistic, not sure what religion they even are but know what they believe. I want a strong faith as I begin my adult life, when I settle down and have children, and beyond.

 

I appreciate any experiences, book suggestions, whatever from anyone but please no debates or anything rude. And if you have gotten this far, you’re a wonderful, wonderful person and I appreciate any time you take to help me through this. Sorry if this seems disjointed and if anything isn't making any sense ask and I'll try to clarify best I can.

 

PM’s are welcome as well.

 

I've found over the years that there are different things that different worship experiences leave me with. The church we attended for 6 years in Norfolk felt like a warm home. They were frequently stepping out in faith, whether it was building a new building without a loan or sending missionaries overseas or starting a school or supporting homeschoolers or international students who were attending the local university. It was a large, diverse group and I learned tons from the people I met there (especially the older women that I might have considered beneath me, but who really had been there and done that well before I was born). The three pastors all had slightly different pespectives (Calvinist, Arminian and eclectic), but demonstrated that you could be smart, curious, loving and still not think that you knew everything. Our favorite assistant pastor was a former general contractor and there were many men who demonstrated that worship could be found in physical work.

Our German church was built in the 12th century and had moved from being a village church to being the older building in a fashionable part of Berlin. During WWII, it had been Martin Niemoeller's church and they had held barely legal prayer services and run an underground school. When the little pipe organ started playing A Mighty Fortress, it gave me chills. But this church also reminded me weekly that it was possible for a people to lose their faith in just a couple generations.

Our Hawaii church was almost open air (louvered walls), had a long haired barefoot praise team leader about half the time and featured worship hulas at every holiday service. I was shocked to hear, shortly before we moved, that the head pastor wasn't really sure homeschooling was a good idea; because he had never said anything like that in my hearing. There were tons of active homeschoolers actively involved in the church and even several board members of local and state homeschool groups. But education choices were not confused with core beliefs.

 

All of which is a round about way of saying that there is a lot of good to be found in the Christian church. We have usually found our best church home by asking a friend we trust and respect what church they attend. None of the churches were perfect. And I'm sure that we'd get something different from each now, just because we're at a different stage in life and with God.

 

There are a couple things about our current church that rub me the wrong way. But I realize that most of these things are minor issues (like lighting during worship music - not a core issue). And I've learned that sometimes the problem is with me, so I try to look at myself first when conflict is coming up.

 

I've been reading more widely over the years. C.S. Lewis can be great, though Mere Christianity took me several attempts to get past the first chapter. I might recommend The Great Divorce, The Problem of Pain of something like God in the Dock. Lesslie Newbigin's Foolishness to the Greeks was a good book that I worked through and wished that I'd read long before. There was a documentary on Mother Teresa that we watched a couple years ago that made me question a lot of assumptions. You might also enjoy Phillip Yancy. The Jesus I Never Knew was one that I enjoyed. What's So Amazing About Grace is another. (While Yancy is pretty accepted now, he writes often about how out of place he felt as a young adult attending a Christian college. He has also been criticized in the past for writings that weren't in line with the comfortable mainstream.) You might also try Stan Fortuna, a rapping Catholic priest. He makes some excellent points, but doesn't shy from using modern terms to do it.

 

Blessings on your search. I was listening to a Peter Enns workshop from last weekend's homeschool conference. He was making the point that struggling with faith is normal and is often a gift from God, because that is when God is able to work on heart issues that you might otherwise guard. It's ok to tell God that you don't understand, don't know where He is or what He wants from you. There are many Christians who have struggled with similar issues and questions. Don't be afraid of asking the questions; God can take it.

[Hunter's Moon]

I'm limited to 8 smilies only, so I'll post a :grouphug: now and a :001_smile: as well.

 

It sounds like UU would be good for you in the NOW :)

 

Requiring a monotheistic religion doesn't narrow it down a whole lot, does it?

 

The various flavours of Christianity, Judaism, Islam (Did you read the recent posts by the ladies who converted from Christianity to Islam? They were interesting stories :) ), Ba'hai (actually they might suit you nicely. Someone on here is Ba'hai. Negan, is it? Mental block, I can't remember.) There are plenty of pagan monotheists. Hey, even the Hindus are monotheists. They just don't look like it at first glance.

 

Rosie

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have been looking into different monotheistic religions as well.

 

I think I'll give the UU church a try. Thanks!

 

 

I don't know if I really have any advice for you, but I wanted to come and give you some hugs. I haven't been where you are so I don't feel qualified to answer your questions, but a verse that burned in my mind as I read your post was this one from Jeremiah.

 

Jeremiah 29:11-13 (New King James Version)

 

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

 

I believe that verse wholeheartedly. I think if you truly seek and search with all your heart you will find Him at the end of it. I wish you well in your searching. I hope that you find what you seeking. God bless you sweetheart! :grouphug:

 

Thank you, I appreciate it

 

:grouphug: I have to get to bed, and I wanted to send a hug before bed. I'll write more tomorrow.

 

Thank you

 

It is 4:15 am here and after waking up with dd I couldn't go back to sleep so hang in there and hopefully I will make some sense.

 

I was much more liberal in my beliefs when I was young. I had a hard time believing and following some of the things that the bible taught. I married fairly young (just turned 20) and had lots of problems with dh for the first several years. He was more conservative than I was and we clashed over several things. In my journey over the last 16 years we have been married I have spent a lot of time in prayer, in studying the bible and in spending time in deep discussions with people that were strong in their Christian faith. I worked with a bunch of conservative guys with backgrounds in different conservative denominations. Eventually I started to change. A lot of the things in the bible that I didn't agree with when I was younger started to make so much more sense to me. I saw people who truly believed the bible and how God worked in their lives and their families lives.

 

I then had a wonderful Pastor for about 2 years that helped my dh and I significantly. We both had a lot of baggage from our childhood. I came from a family of divorce and had a real hard time trusting anyone. He helped us both to learn how to relate to see the problems that we had and how to approach each other differently when we saw signs of those problems starting to happen.

 

My faith in the bible and it being the truth is much stronger now that what it was. There are still things that I struggle with, I have a hard time with not knowing God's plan and wanting to make my own, but I now recognize that as something imperfect in me that needs work.

 

As far as people go...we are sinners, no one can live up to the standards in the bible. This is why Christ came to earth and died on the cross. I fail daily and I ask God for forgiveness (probably less often than I should) and I believe in repentance and forgiveness of sins.

 

I hope you find your way to Christ and can see past the failings of his people.

 

I hope that sharing my experiences with you will help some. If you have any questions please feel free to pm me.

 

Thank you, I appreciate your thoughts and experience. You made sense, even at 4:15 am. I can't even talk coherently at that time, never mind type :tongue_smilie:

[Hunter's Moon]

Plaese don't give up on Christianity just yet. Instead of focusing on the faults of mere sinners, focus on God and His love for you. Have you been reading your Bible? Ask God to help you understand, and search the scritures daily for wisdom and understanding (Acts 17:11). Praying for you.

 

I appreciate your thoughts and prayers :001_smile: I have been reading through the Bible with a Bible Plan Online.

 

I probaby should just pm you. :glare: Anyway, I'll keep it brief.

 

I grew up in a very strict fundamentalist church. By about 16-17, I considered myself an atheist. This went on for about 5 years or so?

 

It helps to rethink EVERYTHING from the beginning. Question everything. You can't be a Jesus robot. The other lady suggested C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity - that's a good one. A Case for Christ and A Case for Faith are also really good - they're written by a man who was also an atheist.

 

Read through the 4 gospels with an open mind. They paint a portrait of Jesus. Pay attention to what he says - especially when he confronts religious people. I also think Jesus basically gave us the Sermon on the Mount as a summary for what we need to know.

 

You can start looking for a denomination that fits what you're looking for - if you want to go to church again. If church has been too damaging to your faith, then I would stay away. I would just worship/study on my own. If a church is destroying people's faith in Christ, then it is BAD. There are lots of things you could do on your own for a while and I think God completely understands.

 

If you're looking into any of the Lutheran denominations, there's a new book called Lutheranism 101 that goes into the basic "what we believe and WHY" (the why is very important). I'm constantly reading about religion and I still learned stuff from that book.

 

I also have a lot of respect for the Roman Catholic church. There are probably plenty of people who could help you there.

 

There are lots of possiblities.

 

Don't give up on your search!

 

Thank you for your thoughts and experience! I'm sure I'll be picking that book up sometime.

:001_smile:

 

 

Here is a comparison chart of Christian core beliefs.

 

If you ever delve very deeply into the Catholic faith and have questions I'll be glad to help.

 

Otherwise you've been given some great advice. I really have nothing else to add.

 

:grouphug:

 

Thank you, I appreciate the chart. If I have any questions about Catholicism I'll be sure to remember you :001_smile::grouphug:

 

I also think a UU would be a great place to start.

Also, check into "Christian Deism", or just deism itself. I was in many ways in the same place as you about 4 years ago. It was very difficult to admit to myself that I was not Christian (and had never been). It was such a cultural part of my life,,,, Ever since I really determined what it is I do believe, I've been a much happier and spiritual person.

:grouphug:

 

Thank you for your thoughts. :grouphug:

[kokotg]

 

 

I’ve seen some posts (some recent, some archived, some older) where people say they threw away the beliefs they grew up with and rebuilt it all. They still consider themselves Christian but aren’t what would be called mainstream. I would especially love stories about this. I’m sort of going this way now and would love some stories from those who’ve finished “the journey†and what helped them get through those tougher times.

 

 

I have a story like that! :) I was raised Catholic and then Baptist (by my Dad/stepmom after my parents' divorce). Baptist church made me really scared and then really bitter. I can look back on it now with some affection that comes with detachment, but...yeah. Once I went to college, I spent a long time mostly avoiding church (and commiserating with other former evangelicals). I took random classes in the religion department, and I checked out the UU church (where a single rendition of "The Road Not Taken" set to music was enough to convince me it wasn't for me; I was more cynical and less of a Robert Frost fan in college). Really, there was a long wilderness period, where I wasn't ready to go back to church, but I couldn't leave Jesus behind altogether. Finally I had a kid and then 9/11 happened 3 months later (cliche much?), and that was when the ball really got rolling again, spiritually speaking. I read Anne Lamott and Martha Beck and saw a local theater production of Wit while we were on vacation, and someone on a parenting message board I was on posted about the United Church of Christ. It all felt very purposeful. I very much felt that God was showing me how I could go back to church; how it could work for me, and how it didn't have to be like it was before. Well, that's the nutshell version. I have lots and lots of thoughts about everything else...the parts of faith that were/are hardest for me, specific denominations (I've tried them all! well, not really, but lots), etc. I will babble about it endlessly if called upon ;), so feel free to PM if you want.

[JenniferB]

Stephanie,

 

I will pass on to you one encouragement, which I have recently learned, which is to seek to be one with God, as Jesus said in his departing prayer, "I in them and you in me." This is the aim of the Christian: to be in communion with God, every day - ever closer, as He intended it from the beginning.

[Sugarfoot]

:grouphug: to you. This reminds me of something my priest said, that it's okay to have doubts, that it's okay to question. Everyone does that at one time or another. The important thing is to keep searching. God is still there, waiting. He never changes.

 

And as one of our older priests says, "It's a mystery..."

 

We're not meant to know everything while we're here on Earth. (We're also not meant to judge one another.) One day, we'll have the answers.

:grouphug:

[....]

We're not meant to know everything while we're here on Earth. (We're also not meant to judge one another.) One day, we'll have the answers.

 

 

Absolutely. I need to keep this in mind for myself.

[KarenNC]

If you are considering UU (and I am one;)), you will find that each congregation has a very different "flavor" depending on the people involved. There are congregations that are more Christian, more Buddhist, more humanist, more atheist, even a couple of specifically Neopagan ones. I've found it to be a great place, but, honestly, if you still consider yourself Christian (even with what you see as rather unorthodox beliefs), you may want to first check out something like the United Church of Christ. I know a number of folks locally who were part of the UU Church for a while, but wanted something more Christian-based and found a home at the UCC. There are a lot of similarities.

 

You would probably be astounded at the level of variety of beliefs I encountered in my Episcopal church as well, and it wasn't unique. I distinctly remember a friend visiting an Episcopal church in another area about 20 years ago. She came home describing sitting between two long-time congregants during part of the liturgy. One was changing all the male pronouns to female ones as they sang the hymns. The other was substituting "Jesus, one of the sons of God" rather than "the son of God." Now that's not been my typical experience, but it does show that there can be more diversity in the pews than is reflected in the official statements of a denomination.:) It's in the pews that you will be living.

 

BTW, unfortunately, you will find lying, back-biting, gossiping, etc in *every* group that involves human beings. It's a huge deal to leave the faith of your family and your social group, so I would advise you to do your best to exhaust your resources within the Christian fold before you consider leaving it. There's so much variety there and it can be hard to see because perception is so colored by one's earlier experiences. I know that has been the situation for a number of friends.

 

UU is *not* a Christian denomination, though there are some in it who do identify as Christian, just as there are who identify as Pagan, atheist, humanist, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. We are a covenantal religion rather than a creedal one, so it's more about how people agree to behave toward each other than what they believe (ideally, at least---we are no more immune to the gossip and backbiting than anyone else, unfortunately).

 

As to the interview for the UU church, I would be surprised to find that they require that of visitors. I would expect that it is more likely that that is something they do for new members and that, even if you joined, they would likely not do it if you said it made you uncomfortable. If you said you didn't want to do an interview and they pushed or required, I'd see that as a red flag and look for a different congregation, myself. I've seen no big pressure to become an official member. There are people in our congregation who have been "friends" of the congregation rather than members for the entire 10 years I've been there. They are a big part of the life of the church, but just can't hold specific offices or vote. If you have more than one in your area, try out the different congregations to see how they each work.