Having a hard time shelling out the money for $TOG$!

[Honey Bee]

I've been looking at my samples for years. We've been doing Veritas Old Testament Ancient Egypt this year and its on the dry side for us.

 

Here are a few essentials for me with history next year:

 

• Strong Christian Worldview
  
• Reading Plan--this is essential! I'll have a 6yo & 7yo I want to read to and a 8yo that likes to read and has enjoyed all our history books so far. I really need something to help me give my kids a consistent reading plan. I want them reading a little every. single. day. I would use WTM, but see point #1 (I don't have the expertise to flesh out and find the best and most appropriate for my kids)
  
• FUN! FUN! FUN! I really need a fun aspect to our school...something we can spend our time doing/making together (beyond reading).
  

I really think TOG would be a good fit for our family, but I am in a tug-a-war with myself over spending that amount of money! I've sat down and planned a few weeks and I it looks like we could really have a good time, but DADGUMIT, I. cant. quite. do. it.....yet.

 

Do you and your kids have fun doing TOG? We really want fun! My kids work hard and I want something that will feel lighthearted without being fluffy YKWIM? So rigorous in disguise. :D

 

What booklist does TOG most resemble...ambleside, sonlight, etc.? (I really adore Ambleside, and it looks like TOG has many of their books)

 

I think it boils down to my kids age. I feel like I won't be using so much of the curriculum. But on the other hand, I strongly favor curriculum that teaches me to teach my kids (Phonics Road, RS Math). And finally, my type A personality will NOT let me ride off into the sunset without a PLAN! I get very stressed without a plan. Plans actually free me...I know, very topsy turvy, but its true.

 

Thanks for hearing me out. If TOG were 80 bucks, I'd-a-been-done-it-already! Aughh! Grrrr! :tongue_smilie:

 

I'd really like to know if your like me...does TOG work for you?

[sewpeaceful]

I'm TOTALLY with you. I can NOT justify spending that kind of money on TOG. My dh said if I were to spend that kind of money, he would rather I shop over at HomeScienceTools.com. Lol

 

We opted to do SOTW, add lots of library books as suggested in the Activity guide, do some projects (my kids would love more), etc. It has been a GREAT fit for us and allowed us not to slave to TOG. I have read over and over TOG is not truly designed for families with their oldest in elementary.

 

PM me if you want to know I went about planning the whole year using SOTW.

 

Also, if you want to see how much fun SOTW can be, pop over to Angela's blog at www.satorismiles.com She is oodles of inspiration for me to keep it fun.

 

And as far as the strong Christian content, we just talk about God with everything. Middle school we may likely pop over to MOH which has a much stronger Christian perspective, so I understand.

[Poke Salad Annie]

Your children are very young. My recommendation would be to use Ambleside Year 0 with the little ones and Year 1 with the 1st/2nd graders.

 

You could also do a Bible study using a nice book of Bible Stories. We get plenty of Bible work/study from doing just that. Scripture memory can be included as well. Five in a Row could be another option to do with all the kids. The little ones would enjoy the books as much as the older children.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Poke Salad Annie

[prairiewindmomma]

Your kids are young. I'd either shell out for TOG digital (do the sample and see how it goes!) and plan on doing it lightly or look at My Father's World or Heart of Dakota or Mystery of History or something else if you're not ready to shell out. The focus in the early grammar years really should be on the basics, imo.

 

We stuck with SOTW, adding in our own Bible stuff, and I'm glad we did. Now that my oldest is ready to move up in level having finished the history cycle once, we're moving on to TOG.

[Jennefer@SSA]

I chose to wait to order and begin TOG until my oldest would be in the Dialectic stage. While they are still young, one of the main benefits of TOG is for Mom's (re)education! Next year as my ds10 is working through UG and/or Dialectic I plan to do all the Rhetoric workload to fill in the gaps in MY education.

 

This post on the TOG board by Janice in NJ was sooo encouraging and motivating for me!!!

 

Janice's Wisdom

 

All that to say, I felt the same way you did when my oldest was in 2nd. Money was tight and we just couldn't financially do it. We enjoyed our journey through SOTW so very much; no regrets there whatsoever!!

[Jennefer@SSA]

I'm TOTALLY with you. I can NOT justify spending that kind of money on TOG. My dh said if I were to spend that kind of money, he would rather I shop over at HomeScienceTools.com. Lol

 

We opted to do SOTW, add lots of library books as suggested in the Activity guide, do some projects (my kids would love more), etc. It has been a GREAT fit for us and allowed us not to slave to TOG. I have read over and over TOG is not truly designed for families with their oldest in elementary.

 

PM me if you want to know I went about planning the whole year using SOTW.

 

Also, if you want to see how much fun SOTW can be, pop over to Angela's blog at www.satorismiles.com She is oodles of inspiration for me to keep it fun.

 

And as far as the strong Christian content, we just talk about God with everything. Middle school we may likely pop over to MOH which has a much stronger Christian perspective, so I understand.

 

:seeya::seeya::seeya: Just giggling that we keep opening and responding to the same threads! ( Great minds think alike and all :D)

[kchara]

Your kids are quite young. It would be fine to wait and do AO, or just SOTW or something like that now.

 

That said, I only have 2 UG students, no D, and we love TOG! And we have a lot of fun. ;)

 

Here's how I look at it: Yes, it's expensive *now*, and it will be even more expensive next year, when I'm buying 3 levels (LG, UG, and D). BUT... it's an investment. Because I have 3 more littles behind the 3 I'm actively teaching now, and I know that once I buy the year plans, I'll have them until my youngest (who is right now 4 months old) graduates high school. In theory (my theory... I love my own theories) I'll have all of the books, and all of the curriculum for TOG long before he hits D or R stage, and I'll never have to buy them again. So, pay now, but save later. Next time we cycle through Y1, I'm not going to have to buy any UG books, no matter how many UG students I have.

[Honey Bee]

I'm TOTALLY with you. I can NOT justify spending that kind of money on TOG. My dh said if I were to spend that kind of money, he would rather I shop over at HomeScienceTools.com. Lol

 

We opted to do SOTW, add lots of library books as suggested in the Activity guide, do some projects (my kids would love more), etc. It has been a GREAT fit for us and allowed us not to slave to TOG. I have read over and over TOG is not truly designed for families with their oldest in elementary.

 

PM me if you want to know I went about planning the whole year using SOTW.

 

Also, if you want to see how much fun SOTW can be, pop over to Angela's blog at www.satorismiles.com She is oodles of inspiration for me to keep it fun.

 

And as far as the strong Christian content, we just talk about God with everything. Middle school we may likely pop over to MOH which has a much stronger Christian perspective, so I understand.

 

Thanks for the info! We've been reading through SOTW this year along with VP cards and my kids really have like it. :001_smile: I haven't really used the activity guide, except for a few coloring pages and maps. I'm just getting tired of pulling it together, I feel like I'm always planning (and that's coming from someone who likes to plan!) I will definitely check out Angela's blog, she keeps such an awesome blog I know it could be encouraging.

 

I might PM you after I flesh this out. :D BTW, I hear MOH is great for logic stage!

[Crazyderiver]

TOG sounds like it could be a great fit. But TOG does not schedule your books by daY. You would still have to take the weekly reading assignments and schedule them out per day. Also, the weeks vary in amount and content. One week may be 50 pages and the next 10. If you are looking for consistent reading schedules I would check out MFW or HOD. As far as projects go, I enjoyed the TOG activities. I always had Options to choose from, I could vary the intensity based on our schedule, and I could skip weeks or pick and choose my favorite "must do". I would also suggest the DE fwiw.

 

Sorry if I wasn't too much help. It always seems to be one step forward, two steps back. Weighing pros and cons causes many a restless night at our house. good luck!

[Honey Bee]

Your children are very young. My recommendation would be to use Ambleside Year 0 with the little ones and Year 1 with the 1st/2nd graders.

 

You could also do a Bible study using a nice book of Bible Stories. We get plenty of Bible work/study from doing just that. Scripture memory can be included as well. Five in a Row could be another option to do with all the kids. The little ones would enjoy the books as much as the older children.

 

Thanks for your reply. I think using those levels will be spot on with my kiddos. And I will definitely look at FIAR, seems like this keeps coming up, but I've never looked at the books they use, I hear good things about them.

 

I just love Ambleside, I'm so. in. love. but I'm still not sure I want my kids at different places, that kinda holds me back. *Sigh*

[FO4UR]

SOTW and Amblesideonline.:iagree:

 

 

At these ages, I prefer to spend the lion's share of our HSing time & money on the 3R's. That's the main reason I doNOT use TOG...still, I have drooled.

[pdalley]

I chose to wait to order and begin TOG until my oldest would be in the Dialectic stage. While they are still young, one of the main benefits of TOG is for Mom's (re)education! Next year as my ds10 is working through UG and/or Dialectic I plan to do all the Rhetoric workload to fill in the gaps in MY education.

 

This post on the TOG board by Janice in NJ was sooo encouraging and motivating for me!!!

 

Janice's Wisdom

 

All that to say, I felt the same way you did when my oldest was in 2nd. Money was tight and we just couldn't financially do it. We enjoyed our journey through SOTW so very much; no regrets there whatsoever!!

 

Thank you for linking that post! That's the reason I finally took the plunge with TOG. I used this past year to educate myself and will now be ready to use it for my oldest for HS in the fall.

[Honey Bee]

I chose to wait to order and begin TOG until my oldest would be in the Dialectic stage. While they are still young, one of the main benefits of TOG is for Mom's (re)education! Next year as my ds10 is working through UG and/or Dialectic I plan to do all the Rhetoric workload to fill in the gaps in MY education.

 

This post on the TOG board by Janice in NJ was sooo encouraging and motivating for me!!!

 

Janice's Wisdom

 

All that to say, I felt the same way you did when my oldest was in 2nd. Money was tight and we just couldn't financially do it. We enjoyed our journey through SOTW so very much; no regrets there whatsoever!!

 

I'm going to print this out right now. I'll be back. :D

[Heidi]

I just love Ambleside, I'm so. in. love. but I'm still not sure I want my kids at different places, that kinda holds me back. *Sigh*

 

Around year 2 or 3 the child should be able to read their literature on their own, from what I understand.

I use AO as our book list, however we don't do the history. They have schedules on the yahoo groups that schedule the whole year out so I know what to read aloud every week. I love the literature because it is more than just books revolving around history. It's geography, nature, fairy tales, parables, fables, etc. I think it is more interesting and filling than just the reading list off of a history curriculum like SOTW or TOG.

I'll always to read alouds with my kids, probably just rotating through the first three years of AO b/c I think they're pretty much all on the same level through year 3. As they get older I'll send them on with an AO reading list to work through on their own.

So AO is our literature list, and its scheduled for me.

We do MM for math.

And we are starting PR for phonics/grammar/etc as soon as it arrives in the mail.

I think those three things are the most important to focus on at this stage.

 

I JUST started SOTW and RSO with my kids, mainly for the fun hands-on stuff they provide. From reading this forum, and especially lurking on the middle school and high school boards, I've learned that history and science are not super important through grammar and logic. Really. They should be used for exposure and fun. I almost bought TOG and looked seriously into MFW as well, but have decided that that sort of money could be better spent, as history, science, and geography really don't need to be that expensive. I would rather spend money on AO books and that amazing PR program (though I know that could be done with less money too if you put in the effort).

From reading the high school forum, MFW high school seems to win over TOG for the ease of use. I've also read that it is just as rigorous. I'm thinking that by the time my oldest is highschool age, I'm going to want more hand holding than I would need right now because of the ages of my kids. I'll have one in 9th, 7th, 5th, 3rd, and 1st (and more littles if I keep poppin' them out). I really don't think I'm going to have the time to have deep socratic discussions with my oldest. Though that would be ideal, it's not realistic for me and I know it.

So just thoughts to consider. I'm looking at MFW high school program for that time, but that's a long way off. I'm just happy I didn't invest in TOG and grateful for those that talked me out of it. I've read so many posts on the high school forum about the weight it is on the parent.

 

http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251641&highlight=tog

Edited March 29, 2011 by hmsmith

[abrightmom]

Around year 2 or 3 the child should be able to read their literature on their own, from what I understand.

I use AO as our book list, however we don't do the history. They have schedules on the yahoo groups that schedule the whole year out so I know what to read aloud every week. I love the literature because it is more than just books revolving around history. It's geography, nature, fairy tales, parables, fables, etc. I think it is more interesting and filling than just the reading list off of a history curriculum like SOTW or TOG.

I'll always to read alouds with my kids, probably just rotating through the first three years of AO b/c I think they're pretty much all on the same level through year 3. As they get older I'll send them on with an AO reading list to work through on their own.

So AO is our literature list, and its scheduled for me.

We do MM for math.

And we are starting PR for phonics/grammar/etc as soon as it arrives in the mail.

I think those three things are the most important to focus on at this stage.

 

I JUST started SOTW and RSO with my kids, mainly for the fun hands-on stuff they provide. From reading this forum, and especially lurking on the middle school and high school boards, I've learned that history and science are not super important through grammar and logic. Really. They should be used for exposure and fun. I almost bought TOG and looked seriously into MFW as well, but have decided that that sort of money could be better spent, as history, science, and geography really don't need to be that expensive. I would rather spend money on AO books and that amazing PR program (though I know that could be done with less money too if you put in the effort).

From reading the high school forum, MFW high school seems to win over TOG for the ease of use. I've also read that it is just as rigorous. I'm thinking that by the time my oldest is highschool age, I'm going to want more hand holding than I would need right now because of the ages of my kids. I'll have one in 9th, 7th, 5th, 3rd, and 1st (and more littles if I keep poppin' them out). I really don't think I'm going to have the time to have deep socratic discussions with my oldest. Though that would be ideal, it's not realistic for me and I know it.

So just thoughts to consider. I'm looking at MFW high school program for that time, but that's a long way off. I'm just happy I didn't invest in TOG and grateful for those that talked me out of it. I've read so many posts on the high school forum about the weight it is on the parent.

 

http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251641&highlight=tog

 

I identify with many of the sentiments in this post about TOG. It looks awesome but I have faced what is reality for me.....TOG is way more than we want in high school and I don't think that level of scholarship is suited to every kiddo. If we get there and I have a kiddo who wants or needs that we'll address that issue then. WTM and WEM give a lot of awesome helps in using Great Books in high school.....that is my fall back plan and I think it's a mighty good one. :001_smile: MFW and HOD are both excellent choices for a strong high school program IMHO and a HUGE improvement on my education. I believe either of those choices OR a WTM/planned by Mom & Student high school course of study would be wonderful for my children. I can add some Great Books study for my children over the years by following SWB's recommendations in TWTM. They are excellent and EASY to understand! I can do TWTM. TOG ....no. :D

 

I think one could just enjoy these younger years with the kids while working on skills. Use Sonlight, use MFW, use HOD, use SOTW. :001_smile: Set a plan in place for when your oldest begins logic stage studies.....

[Chelli]

Nobody has mentioned this, so I am going to throw it out there. You might look at Biblioplan. It uses STOW or MOH as a spine and then selects books for each age group and schedules out how much you should read to them or how much they sould read from the book. It is scheduled for only three days a week, but you could easily make it more if you wanted. You could use the STOW activity guide if you really like to do hands-on projects (more so than the one that Biblioplan suggests). We started with TOG (bought one 9 weeks DE to try it out) and moved to Biblioplan and my dd7 likes it MUCH better!

 

http://www.biblioplan.net/index.htm

[johnandtinagilbert]

HB,

Here's how I see it:

TOG has great living books (like AO), so why would I spend Now on some other program as a spine and then buy TOG later. Honestly, why not buy it now, when all of your materials cost less than middle or high school, and save the $50ish you'll spend w/ SOTW or MOH, etc. for books later (when you'll really want to own them)?

The library does wonders for TOG! At least if you have a descent one. Janice is so right.

 

I identify with many of the sentiments in this post about TOG. It looks awesome but I have faced what is reality for me.....TOG is way more than we want in high school and I don't think that level of scholarship is suited to every kiddo. If we get there and I have a kiddo who wants or needs that we'll address that issue then. WTM and WEM give a lot of awesome helps in using Great Books in high school.....that is my fall back plan and I think it's a mighty good one. :001_smile: MFW and HOD are both excellent choices for a strong high school program IMHO and a HUGE improvement on my education. I believe either of those choices OR a WTM/planned by Mom & Student high school course of study would be wonderful for my children. I can add some Great Books study for my children over the years by following SWB's recommendations in TWTM. They are excellent and EASY to understand! I can do TWTM. TOG ....no. :D

 

I think one could just enjoy these younger years with the kids while working on skills. Use Sonlight, use MFW, use HOD, use SOTW. :001_smile: Set a plan in place for when your oldest begins logic stage studies.....

You befuddle me, Katrina (;)). You're all about rigor for grammar school, but not high school? Although I agree that the kind of rigor Available may be too much for some high schoolers, you don't have to have that rigor -- one of mine doesn't get all of TOG now, but his brother does. You can easily have WTM + WEM + more teacher tools with TOG. You want to offer the advanced materials for your son in 2nd grade, but not high school? Huh?

I own WEM and WTM (of course :D), but I'm here to say, TOG is easier for me to use than the combo b/c it puts everything in one place. The planning time for large families, by just pulling from WTM, is its very own monster.

[Honey Bee]

I chose to wait to order and begin TOG until my oldest would be in the Dialectic stage. While they are still young, one of the main benefits of TOG is for Mom's (re)education! Next year as my ds10 is working through UG and/or Dialectic I plan to do all the Rhetoric workload to fill in the gaps in MY education.

 

This post on the TOG board by Janice in NJ was sooo encouraging and motivating for me!!!

 

Janice's Wisdom

 

All that to say, I felt the same way you did when my oldest was in 2nd. Money was tight and we just couldn't financially do it. We enjoyed our journey through SOTW so very much; no regrets there whatsoever!!

 

Thank you so much for posting this! I find it to be very true, especially about spending my time meshing and pouring over catalogs instead of mastering some of the content myself.

[Honey Bee]

I keep getting the advise to concentrate on the three R's, and I want to respond to that. For me, that includes skills such as Math, copywork, dictation, narration, reading, etc. We spend our mornings working through Phonics Road and Righstart Math, covering all of those. But my kids need more and reading about God's story of humanity will enhance and give us opportunity to enrich and strengthen those skills. I don't want to come across like I want TOG or any program/curriculum to take over or become the center of our school. Quite the opposite. I want it to enrich and be FUN! for the hard work my kids put forth with our school. Please know I don't want it to take over, but I am in need of wise counsel in the area of books selection. I really don't want to be pouring constantly over catalogs trying to find the best. I would like to find that list or close to it and use it already. :D

 

I'm really wondering, before I spend my husbands hard earned $money$ if TOG has been worth it in the younger grades. After reading Janice in NJ take on it I would say yes, because it also can educate me (which I'm totally in favor of), but I can see how WTM/WEM can do the same by looking ahead (in general).

 

I could be very wrong, but TOG in the younger years looks like this:

 

Read a few good books, narrate and/or draw, or use lit sheet?

Map (I'd use the teachers maps and have the kids color and highlight the stuff we came across in the reading)

Keep a timeline on the wall for all of us

Enjoy a fun project

My 3rd grader (next year) he could start reading some of the UG books, etc.

 

I can not reiterate how much I need a guide for my kids reading, even with so many around me, TOG seems like one of the best, as far as matching appropriateness with a child's development. (I know there are other great ones too, I just mean one of the best :D)

 

Thank you all for your advise, wisdom, and comments. They really are all helpful to me. I think it sounds like you all have been where I have, all tore up inside about a decision that needs to be made, but not really ready to commit the resources and time needed because it might be another mistake. :tongue_smilie:

[SophiaH]

I just wanted to comment on the book selection that you asked about in your original post. TOG's book choices are a lot more like VP's than Ambleside's in the grammar stage--short non-fiction books versus narrative living books. (My only experience is grammar stage so that may change in the upper levels of TOG.) I really don't see many similarities between TOG and AO's book choices at this age. We used TOG Years 1 and 2 and we much prefer our AO books that we're using now. (YMMV but you mentioned a couple of times how much you love AO so I just wanted to mention it.)

[BlsdMama]

We like TOG but if I only had littles, I wouldn't be using it either. Though I've heard it's nice to "warm up" when they're little so you're prepared for Dialectic and Rhetoric. ;)

 

If you start, buy only one unit. But I'll go out on a limb and say buy the print edition so you can really dig your hands into what TOG has to offer and you don't accidentally bypass something in the curriculum because you don't know where and when to click.

[Honey Bee]

HB,

Here's how I see it:

TOG has great living books (like AO), so why would I spend Now on some other program as a spine and then buy TOG later. Honestly, why not buy it now, when all of your materials cost less than middle or high school, and save the $50ish you'll spend w/ SOTW or MOH, etc. for books later (when you'll really want to own them)?

The library does wonders for TOG! At least if you have a descent one. Janice is so right.

 

Thanks for your advice Tina. I know, I know, I know, I know....:D I just realized I spend over $300 last year with VP and it didn't even include books, yikes! Maybe I should just take the plunge. Do we have a plunger icon? :lol:

I own WEM and WTM (of course :D), but I'm here to say, TOG is easier for me to use than the combo b/c it puts everything in one place. The planning time for large families, by just pulling from WTM, is its very own monster.

And I know this is so true also. It kinda sums it up for me how I feel about it. For me, I'm just not "Rhetorically sound" enough to cover all my bases. I want something that builds beautifully.

 

Tina, do your kids enjoy the books? What list would you say TOG combines? For example VP, sonlight, AO, WTM, etc.

 

Tina, thanks again.

[abrightmom]

HB,

Here's how I see it:

TOG has great living books (like AO), so why would I spend Now on some other program as a spine and then buy TOG later. Honestly, why not buy it now, when all of your materials cost less than middle or high school, and save the $50ish you'll spend w/ SOTW or MOH, etc. for books later (when you'll really want to own them)?

The library does wonders for TOG! At least if you have a descent one. Janice is so right.

 

You befuddle me, Katrina (;)). You're all about rigor for grammar school, but not high school? Although I agree that the kind of rigor Available may be too much for some high schoolers, you don't have to have that rigor -- one of mine doesn't get all of TOG now, but his brother does. You can easily have WTM + WEM + more teacher tools with TOG. You want to offer the advanced materials for your son in 2nd grade, but not high school? Huh?

I own WEM and WTM (of course :D), but I'm here to say, TOG is easier for me to use than the combo b/c it puts everything in one place. The planning time for large families, by just pulling from WTM, is its very own monster.

 

Tina,

 

Perhaps you misunderstand me or perhaps I misunderstand you. I'm not sure where my desires for rigor for my 2nd grader came in here... I want all of the bases covered systematically and thoroughly. If that is rigor then that IS what I want.

 

TOG is NOT the only way nor is it the BEST way to HAVE rigor in High School. :D That is often implied. By me saying "NO" to TOG right now, or advising Honey Bee that there are other paths, I am not saying "NO" to rigor in high school. You infer something that I am NOT saying nor have I ever said. You may disagree with me on that point and of course you are free to do so. I DO want rigor for my children as they get older (and by rigor I mean systematic, thorough, challenging in skill and content) and I want to feel comfortable with the level of rigor. That is a VERY personal decision for each family. Marcia Sommerville likens TOG to the best prep schools in the nation (at a high school level). At this point in my children's education I am not willing to commit myself to "best prep school in the nation" level of education or rigor. That is not a desire of our heart....neither do I believe that that is required or necessary for every kiddo.

 

There is a lot of pressure here on TWTM to use TOG and there is an implication that TOG is the ONLY way to have the BEST (and most rigorous) education for the kids. I am not afraid to say no to TOG although I used to be. I was genuinely afraid that by not choosing it I would be short changing my kids. That just isn't so....

 

Frankly, I find SWB's plan in WTM very easy to understand whereas I find TOG to be "more than I want or need at this time" and "more than I want to commit to so early in our home school journey". TOG IS an investment and purchasing TOG with the intention of using over the years is not a commitment I am prepared to make at this time. I never said I wouldn't choose TOG when the time is right. And, frankly, I think when the oldest kid in the house is a 2nd grader that might be a bit too early to make a decision....especially for a Mama struggling with so much indecision, a Mama with a house full of little littles, and a Mama who still has TIME to make that decision (take Honey Bee for example). Not to mention the $$ output. It's not a waste to invest in quality literature to use this next year. It's not a waste to buy a teacher's guide that is open and go. Most of those programs have a great re-sale and the little bit of $$ spent on the guide can be well worth a Mom's sanity for a season. Those resources build the library and it is likely that those books ARE used somewhere in TOG in the future....

 

I know that I do not have time "right now" to educate myself at that level "in preparation for" the rhetoric stage. IF I read the teacher's notes they will fall out of my brain before I ever need them. :lol: I would personally rather grow with my children along the way and read through the Great Books list SWB has laid down in WTM. THAT is doable for me (and frankly, it is daunting!). If I do TOG rhetoric now then I STOP preparing myself for what my kiddos NEED now. Yes, the fear of God has been put in me by well meaning Mamas on this board...that if I don't prepare now I will be unprepared. :001_smile: TOG isn't the only way to "prepare" and if Honey Bee says no to TOG this year because she isn't quite sure then she's not forever closing the door on being ready for rhetoric. I am taking it one year at a time with my children and with homeschooling. I keep the "next stage of the Trivium" in view at all times and I am checking skills constantly while setting goals.

 

Tina, TOG is an amazing program that fits perfectly for some and not for others. It's attractive and I visit TOG regularly to get it out of my system...for now. :001_smile: We haven't taken it off the table forever but it's not for "right now". But I am WEARY of the implications by many well meaning Moms that it is the ONLY way to have the BEST for our kids.

Edited March 29, 2011 by abrightmom

[Heidi]

And I would add to spend some time on the high school forum and search TOG there. There are many moms that still love it in high school, but read carefully those that don't and why. Lots of money invested just to realize when they get to R level that it really is more than they want or need. Us K-8ers still have it easy.

[Guest]

TOG like every other program out there is not for everyone. It is why I always say, download the samples, check it out for yourself, and then decide. That said, it is the best for us :). It suits everything I want to do with my kids and is flexible enough to make it as rigorous as I so choose ;).

 

I think our experiences are what should speak to others as to whether a program will or will not work for them. It is why I try not to make recommendations. Through one's experience with a program you can get valuable input to help you decide if it fits you or not.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

There is a lot of pressure here on TWTM to use TOG and there is an implication that TOG is the ONLY way to have the BEST (and most rigorous) education for the kids. I am not afraid to say no to TOG although I used to be. I was genuinely afraid that by not choosing it I would be short changing my kids. That just isn't so....

 

Not sure why you feel that there is pressure on the forums to use TOG :confused:. We are sharing experiences, not forcing anyone to use anything. Those of us that have experienced TOG know the value for OUR home and that is what we try to convey. What you feel will or will not fit your family is your right and your responsibility as a parent to decide. I am glad you are clear about what will or will not work for you :D.

[Georgiana Daniels]

E-Bay!

 

We got Year 1 with Map Aids for $145 (or something like that.) Now that I know how totally worth it the price is, I won't mind paying full price for new for Year 2.

 

Even though my kids are young, we are still getting a lot of use out of ToG, and I'm learning SOOO much. It's just as much for my benefit as theirs.

[abrightmom]

This thread here . Read post #41 (by TracyP) including the quote she referenced. That is what I'm trying to say to Honey Bee and where my heart is right now about TOG....:001_smile:

[Guest]

This thread here . Read post #41 (by TracyP) including the quote she referenced. That is what I'm trying to say to Honey Bee and where my heart is right now about TOG....:001_smile:

 

I respect and value Tracy's opinion, as I do Tina's, and Tracy's (aka tracymirko) and many other veteran and non veteran TOGers. However, I don't base my decisions on any one opinion :). From the comments and experiences I read, I take what works for me and my family. I think I mentioned that to you before. Don't worry too much about what works for others, find what works for you.

 

I too am one of those that do not believe I can work on the self-education portion of TOG at the level that I would like right now. For myself and at the present time I am looking at going the WEM way. It's what I have decided for myself :), while reading all the various opinions and also researching, researching, researching. I currently have the WEM at home from the library and I am stealing a few moments when I have the chance to figure out if this is the way I want to go in which case I will invest in the book. But that is just me and we all need to find our own way, whether that be with TOG, SL, MFW, WTM, a combination or possibly switching programs at some point... The list can go on and on and the experiences are as many as the families homeschooling :). The point is finding what works for us and paving our own path in this journey called homeschooling.

 

One thing I want to clarify here, I think people have this impression that if you go with TOG you HAVE to do the self-education portion while your kids are young. You don't! I have tried to clarify that on here several times. TOG is what you choose to do with it. It is the richest buffet I have ever seen but YOU (any you, not you specifically) have to decide whether you can handle all this wealth of information and resources. Whether you can handle figuring out what, through all of it, you need for your family. Personally, I like having more options than not enough. But that's just me :D. It is our responsibility as the teacher parent to decide.

 

TOG is most certainly NOT the only way to the best education for our children. Everything else besides TOG is also not the best way... Please understand, I am not trying to pick on you. You did make it sound though like you were saying that any other way is better than TOG and I am confused how, especially since you have not used TOG, you are able to make such a recommendation to others. You feel it won't work for you? I respect that! Telling others what will or will not work for them though is a whole different ballgame ;).

Edited March 29, 2011 by Guest

[Honey Bee]

I identify with many of the sentiments in this post about TOG. It looks awesome but I have faced what is reality for me.....TOG is way more than we want in high school and I don't think that level of scholarship is suited to every kiddo. If we get there and I have a kiddo who wants or needs that we'll address that issue then. WTM and WEM give a lot of awesome helps in using Great Books in high school.....that is my fall back plan and I think it's a mighty good one. :001_smile: MFW and HOD are both excellent choices for a strong high school program IMHO and a HUGE improvement on my education. I believe either of those choices OR a WTM/planned by Mom & Student high school course of study would be wonderful for my children. I can add some Great Books study for my children over the years by following SWB's recommendations in TWTM. They are excellent and EASY to understand! I can do TWTM. TOG ....no. :D

 

I think one could just enjoy these younger years with the kids while working on skills. Use Sonlight, use MFW, use HOD, use SOTW. :001_smile: Set a plan in place for when your oldest begins logic stage studies.....

 

You know, I think I need to move WEM up on my book list. I think I'm behind 300+ people on PBS who are in line for it, so it could be a while that way. I've also cruised over WTM Rhetoric, but I need to look more closely at it. You've made some good points, and I do think their is more than one way to skin a cat. I guess I just need to find which way that is. :tongue_smilie: Thanks so much for your encouragement!

[Honey Bee]

And I would add to spend some time on the high school forum and search TOG there. There are many moms that still love it in high school, but read carefully those that don't and why. Lots of money invested just to realize when they get to R level that it really is more than they want or need. Us K-8ers still have it easy.

 

Thanks so much for all your advise today. I do love AO so much. Your explanation of how you use it opened my eyes today to a simple possibility and it has been very enlightening. Thanks so much!

[Honey Bee]

E-Bay!

 

We got Year 1 with Map Aids for $145 (or something like that.) Now that I know how totally worth it the price is, I won't mind paying full price for new for Year 2.

 

Even though my kids are young, we are still getting a lot of use out of ToG, and I'm learning SOOO much. It's just as much for my benefit as theirs.

 

Your kids are little ones! What a great deal!

 

So what do you do in a week for TOG?

[Georgiana Daniels]

We do the readings, maps, and pick which projects look the most interesting. Lapbook pages every week too. Last week the kids made a paper mache mummy out of an old barbie :D I try to make sure they know the key people.

 

I'm surprised how much they are actually remembering about the things we've learned (the patriarchs stand out in my mind.) Since there's a lot of Bible time in the first unit of Year 1 it's worked out well to snuggle on the couch and read, read, read.

 

They really look forward to History time!

[Honey Bee]

We do the readings, maps, and pick which projects look the most interesting. Lapbook pages every week too. Last week the kids made a paper mache mummy out of an old barbie :D I try to make sure they know the key people.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I'm surprised how much they are actually remembering about the things we've learned (the patriarchs stand out in my mind.) Since there's a lot of Bible time in the first unit of Year 1 it's worked out well to snuggle on the couch and read, read, read.

 

They really look forward to History time!

 

 

This sound like you've found a good groove and the kids are enjoying! How fun! Thanks for sharing!

[Georgiana Daniels]

PS. The other aspect I really love about ToG (and it probably exists in other programs and I just don't know about it) is how the secular and Biblical history are woven together. There's no separation, which I think is important for young, fertile minds. ToG has that all laid out, although we did weeks 4-6 before 1-3 (creation, then Mesopotamia, then Egypt).

[abrightmom]

I respect and value Tracy's opinion, as I do Tina's, and Tracy's (aka tracymirko) and many other veteran and non veteran TOGers. However, I don't base my decisions on any one opinion :). From the comments and experiences I read, I take what works for me and my family. I think I mentioned that to you before. Don't worry too much about what works for others, find what works for you.

 

I too am one of those that do not believe I can work on the self-education portion of TOG at the level that I would like right now. For myself and at the present time I am looking at going the WEM way. It's what I have decided for myself :), while reading all the various opinions and also researching, researching, researching. I currently have the WEM at home from the library and I am stealing a few moments when I have the chance to figure out if this is the way I want to go in which case I will invest in the book. But that is just me and we all need to find our own way, whether that be with TOG, SL, MFW, WTM, a combination or possibly switching programs at some point... The list can go on and on and the experiences are as many as the families homeschooling :). The point is finding what works for us and paving our own path in this journey called homeschooling.

 

One thing I want to clarify here, I think people have this impression that if you go with TOG you HAVE to do the self-education portion while your kids are young. You don't! I have tried to clarify that on here several times. TOG is what you choose to do with it. It is the richest buffet I have ever seen but YOU (any you, not you specifically) have to decide whether you can handle all this wealth of information and resources. Whether you can handle figuring out what, through all of it, you need for your family. Personally, I like having more options than not enough. But that's just me :D. It is our responsibility as the teacher parent to decide.

 

TOG is most certainly NOT the only way to the best education for our children. Everything else besides TOG is also not the best way... Please understand, I am not trying to pick on you. You did make it sound though like you were saying that any other way is better than TOG and I am confused how, especially since you have not used TOG, you are able to make such a recommendation to others. You feel it won't work for you? I respect that! Telling others what will or will not work for them though is a whole different ballgame ;).

 

I agree with all that you've said EXCEPT that I NEVER said (nor do I believe) that any other way is better than TOG. I am only saying that TOG is not the only way to a rigorous education in high school. That's it! :001_smile: Sheesh. I said a lot of wonderful things about TOG....

Edited March 29, 2011 by abrightmom

[taffnus]

I have to pipe in. I'm a major planner as well and have come to realize that I really want history from a Christian perspective. I started with Sonlight but the reading was too much for me and my littles so I moved to History Odyssey with SL history books added. I was so frustrated by the end of the free trial because I couldn't figure out how to fit in biblical history with the study of ancient history. My dd didn't know the difference but I felt I couldn't adequately understand or explain the history. By November, I bit the bullet and bought TOG Y1U2 because we were right at that starting point. Within 3 weeks, I went back and upgraded to the full year.

 

I love it. Does my dd7? Well, all she knows is that we're studying history. What she doesn't know is that the past 8 weeks that we've studied pure OT history isn't normal for other history programs. She has a great understanding of the OT now (for a 7-year old). She loves the hands-on projects, maps, crafts, etc. We did a salt-map of the 12 Tribes and then added on to it each time we studied a "neighbor." We learned about Purim and baked Purim cookies to give away.

 

Today, we have finally moved beyond the Israelites and are beginning Ancient Greece. We cut out our map sections from green poster board and pasted them to blue poster board. We have the start of an amazing map of Ancient Greece. We'll begin to label it tomorrow as we read.

 

I love the books too. We really appreciate the easier, picture books and I've read some of the UG books that are appropriate. The reading is much more manageable for us than SL and more enjoyable.

 

I have SOTW 1 and the guide. I just couldn't seem to get into it. TOG is great for parents who thrive on lots of information. :-) I love having it all at my fingertips. It's a great choice for us right now.

 

Why not try just Y1U1 to see how it goes??

[Guest]

I agree with all that you've said EXCEPT that I NEVER said (nor do I believe) that any other way is better than TOG. I am only saying that TOG is not the only way to a rigorous education in high school. That's it! :001_smile: ...

 

I did not find it necessary to quote previous posts but I am glad we agree :).

[Tracy]

My 6yo has a ton of fun with TOG! Last week, she and dh made a catapult, and we also played a matching game with the Greek and Roman gods. She has put on plays. We used blankets and chairs to make a "cave" and pretended we were in the Israelite army during David's time. Dh took her camping to pretend they were Israelites in the wilderness. We have celebrated all manner of Jewish holidays that I never heard of before.

 

If you are concerned about fun, you will definitely have it with TOG, at least in the G levels. (Can't comment on the upper levels.) My biggest concern was that I am not personally good at "fun," especially if it involves a lot of preparation or clean-up. But that has not been a problem. There are always simple, easy ideas to choose from. And dh is often willing to take on the bigger projects.

 

And although TOG does not schedule books by day, in the G levels, you can schedule each topic always on the same day. So I know that our history reading is always on Monday, mapping always on Wednesday, Literature always on Thursday and activities always on Friday.

 

However, you also mentioned FIAR, and we did that before TOG. We absolutely loved FIAR, too! And it is perfect for your kids' ages. So if you are not sure about spending the $ for TOG, I think it would be hard to go wrong with FIAR. You can even just get the first volume and try it out so that if it doesn't work, you won't be losing so much.

[Tracy]

I have SOTW 1 and the guide. I just couldn't seem to get into it. TOG is great for parents who thrive on lots of information. :-) I love having it all at my fingertips. It's a great choice for us right now.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I think you just hit the nail on the head. We do TOG supplemented with SOTW, and I haven't been able to articulate why I like TOG so much more than just SOTW. There is just so much information.

[Honey Bee]

Well after all my soul searching and prayer, comments and wisdom from you, I've decided to go with Veritas Press/Ambleside Online. We will continue to use our VP stuff (that we have been using this year), just a little lighter and start to slowly incorporate AO selections, especially in the literature department.

 

When I took stock of the books my kids really enjoy, they have always been those from AO. TOG would not give us the freedom to explore that list in any depth, because we would be reading so many books.

 

Another factor was money. I decided I would rather spend that money on books and splurge a little on science this year, maybe we can get a fun kit.

 

I still think TOG rocks! It just won't be a good fit for us right now. VP and TOG cover a lot of the same history (vp leaves out far east, early americas, but that can be worked in using SOTW, which we are already using too). We will continue to follow the history cards using some spines like Kingfisher Book of the Ancient World and SOTW and include some of the great books from their catalog. I'm chuncking the scholars plans, they were not for us! I did learn a lot from using them though. :D So we will use some fun stuff from VP: cards, big map from back of teacher manual, books, and add literature by way of AO.

 

Well, thanks all. :001_smile:

[Jennefer@SSA]

Well after all my soul searching and prayer, comments and wisdom from you, I've decided to go with Veritas Press/Ambleside Online. We will continue to use our VP stuff (that we have been using this year), just a little lighter and start to slowly incorporate AO selections, especially in the literature department.

 

When I took stock of the books my kids really enjoy, they have always been those from AO. TOG would not give us the freedom to explore that list in any depth, because we would be reading so many books.

 

Another factor was money. I decided I would rather spend that money on books and splurge a little on science this year, maybe we can get a fun kit.

 

I still think TOG rocks! It just won't be a good fit for us right now. VP and TOG cover a lot of the same history (vp leaves out far east, early americas, but that can be worked in using SOTW, which we are already using too). We will continue to follow the history cards using some spines like Kingfisher Book of the Ancient World and SOTW and include some of the great books from their catalog. I'm chuncking the scholars plans, they were not for us! I did learn a lot from using them though. :D So we will use some fun stuff from VP: cards, big map from back of teacher manual, books, and add literature by way of AO.

 

Well, thanks all. :001_smile:

 

So glad you have come to a place of peace now that you have made a decision. Feels great doesn't it?! :D:D Now kick but and enjoy and don't second guess yourself! :) :) :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

And I know this is so true also. It kinda sums it up for me how I feel about it. For me, I'm just not "Rhetorically sound" enough to cover all my bases. I want something that builds beautifully.

 

Tina, do your kids enjoy the books? What list would you say TOG combines? For example VP, sonlight, AO, WTM, etc.

 

Tina, thanks again.

I started the AO list once and found that the classics (that are always in TOG) were great, but some of the books, b/c they are not abridged, were too much (either not interesting or too academically advanced). We have always preferred to start with lower level books (abridged versions) then follow with original readings. It has made our studies more enjoyable and allowed for better understanding. I love AO for other reasons b/c I love CM, but I was also not willing to have so many threads of history at once. The later was my decision maker b/t AO and TOG. In our house, we must be on the same page. So much so, ds15 will take an Ancients Humanities class when we get back to year 1...not a semester sooner!

[johnandtinagilbert]

I have to pipe in. I'm a major planner as well and have come to realize that I really want history from a Christian perspective. I started with Sonlight but the reading was too much for me and my littles so I moved to History Odyssey with SL history books added. I was so frustrated by the end of the free trial because I couldn't figure out how to fit in biblical history with the study of ancient history. My dd didn't know the difference but I felt I couldn't adequately understand or explain the history. By November, I bit the bullet and bought TOG Y1U2 because we were right at that starting point. Within 3 weeks, I went back and upgraded to the full year.

 

I love it. Does my dd7? Well, all she knows is that we're studying history. What she doesn't know is that the past 8 weeks that we've studied pure OT history isn't normal for other history programs. She has a great understanding of the OT now (for a 7-year old). She loves the hands-on projects, maps, crafts, etc. We did a salt-map of the 12 Tribes and then added on to it each time we studied a "neighbor." We learned about Purim and baked Purim cookies to give away.

 

Today, we have finally moved beyond the Israelites and are beginning Ancient Greece. We cut out our map sections from green poster board and pasted them to blue poster board. We have the start of an amazing map of Ancient Greece. We'll begin to label it tomorrow as we read.

 

I love the books too. We really appreciate the easier, picture books and I've read some of the UG books that are appropriate. The reading is much more manageable for us than SL and more enjoyable.

 

I have SOTW 1 and the guide. I just couldn't seem to get into it. TOG is great for parents who thrive on lots of information. :-) I love having it all at my fingertips. It's a great choice for us right now.

 

Why not try just Y1U1 to see how it goes??

:iagree: I know the same to be true by looking at SL and also by watching local friends come to the same conclusions.

 

:iagree: I had the exact same thoughts about SOTW. Usable, enjoyable, but wanting something more. TOG filled in the more for my family.

 

My 6yo has a ton of fun with TOG! Last week, she and dh made a catapult, and we also played a matching game with the Greek and Roman gods. She has put on plays. We used blankets and chairs to make a "cave" and pretended we were in the Israelite army during David's time. Dh took her camping to pretend they were Israelites in the wilderness. We have celebrated all manner of Jewish holidays that I never heard of before.

 

If you are concerned about fun, you will definitely have it with TOG, at least in the G levels. (Can't comment on the upper levels.) My biggest concern was that I am not personally good at "fun," especially if it involves a lot of preparation or clean-up. But that has not been a problem. I was in the same boat! There are always simple, easy ideas to choose from. And dh is often willing to take on the bigger projects.

 

And although TOG does not schedule books by day, in the G levels, you can schedule each topic always on the same day. So I know that our history reading is always on Monday, mapping always on Wednesday, Literature always on Thursday and activities always on Friday.

 

However, you also mentioned FIAR, and we did that before TOG. We absolutely loved FIAR, too! And it is perfect for your kids' ages. So if you are not sure about spending the $ for TOG, I think it would be hard to go wrong with FIAR. You can even just get the first volume and try it out so that if it doesn't work, you won't be losing so much.

We loved FIAR, too; I just felt like it was more work than TOG.

 

HB,

I'm glad you've found your happy medium. I hope it works very well for you. I am looking at buying the VP CD+cards simply b/c I think they'll make great memorization tools for us all! Please let us know how it works out.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina,

 

Perhaps you misunderstand me or perhaps I misunderstand you. I'm not sure where my desires for rigor for my 2nd grader came in here... I want all of the bases covered systematically and thoroughly. If that is rigor then that IS what I want. You have said you miss the rigor or PR. This is where his grade comes in and the mention of your desire for rigor.

 

TOG is NOT the only way nor is it the BEST way to HAVE rigor in High School. :D That is often implied. Many people here make recs otherwise, so whatever implication you're understanding, I find to be your interpretation.

For what HB asked, TOG will provide her needs. As an Actual User of TOG for 5 years, I can say it is WONDERFUL for grammar stage. I've used grammar stages in TOG for 7 dc, whom have a variety of needs, intelligence, and learning styles. I know what I'm talking about. Having used Rhetoric for 2 dc, I can tell you it Can Be Rigorous, but Doesn't Have to Be. There is a difference in implication and experience. In *this* case, I have experience. Without being unkind, you have an opinion of a program you have never used --- there is a difference. I can make reference to Bibloplan, but cannot speak directly to it. I can, however speak to Every Learning Level of TOG b/c I have labored through each level. By me saying "NO" to TOG right now, or advising Honey Bee that there are other paths, I am not saying "NO" to rigor in high school. You infer something that I am NOT saying nor have I ever said. Your words were, "TOG is way more than we want in high school " and made reference to the private prep school rigor. *I* can say, as a user of 2 programs you've looked into (one that was used/sold/regret/bought/sold/missed, both PR and TOG offer the same kind of rigor. I can also say, as a user of TOG, that it is Not rigorous for my mathy kid. I keep it gentle as the teacher. TOG is a tool that provides solid history for him, but I drop the rigor. He won't touch another history class past 11th grade b/c he'll be consumed with math and science. I get that not everybody needs humanities rigor. This does not create a stumbling block in TOG.

 

There is a lot of pressure here on TWTM to use TOG and there is an implication that TOG is the ONLY way to have the BEST (and most rigorous) education for the kids. I am not afraid to say no to TOG although I used to be. I was genuinely afraid that by not choosing it I would be short changing my kids. That just isn't so....I mean no insult to you on this, but I find "pressure here" laughable. I find as many anti-TOG comments as those in favor. That has been happening on these forums since I first came here 8 or more years ago (I forget exactly when I came on board). There is a "for" and "against" for most materials. The advice of vets here is invaluable. I speak boldly to help others avoid mistakes I have made that did cause problems, fortunately, there have also been workable solutions. I wouldn't want any of my friends to go down a path that will lead to gaps. If someone asks, I have the opportunity to serve a community that has served me well. Paying forward.

 

Frankly, I find SWB's plan in WTM very easy to understand whereas I find TOG to be "more than I want or need at this time" and "more than I want to commit to so early in our home school journey". TOG IS an investment and purchasing TOG with the intention of using over the years is not a commitment I am prepared to make at this time. I never said I wouldn't choose TOG when the time is right. And, frankly, I think when the oldest kid in the house is a 2nd grader that might be a bit too early to make a decision....especially for a Mama struggling with so much indecision, a Mama with a house full of little littles, and a Mama who still has TIME to make that decision (take Honey Bee for example). Not to mention the $$ output. It's not a waste to invest in quality literature to use this next year. It's not a waste to buy a teacher's guide that is open and go. Most of those programs have a great re-sale and the little bit of $$ spent on the guide can be well worth a Mom's sanity for a season. Those resources build the library and it is likely that those books ARE used somewhere in TOG in the future....TOG is a guided program. TOG is open and go in grammar stages. If one doesn't understand that, then one doesn't understand TOG at all. TOG grammar stage is NO MORE difficult to use than SOTW or MOH (2 programs I did use in my first round of history), in fact, I find TOG easier than both of them (or at least they were in my day, and I don't think either program has made drastic changes). I admit they are easier to look at b/c it's 1-book to read from, instead of piles of paper...evenso, that doesn't make them any easier overall, nor does it change the content or nature of the content.

You find over time that while there is much help on these boards, you often find kindred spirits in home schooling. HB and I seem to be on that path.

 

I know that I do not have time "right now" to educate myself at that level "in preparation for" the rhetoric stage. IF I read the teacher's notes they will fall out of my brain before I ever need them. :lol: I would personally rather grow with my children along the way and read through the Great Books list SWB has laid down in WTM. THAT is doable for me (and frankly, it is daunting!). If I do TOG rhetoric now then I STOP preparing myself for what my kiddos NEED now. Yes, the fear of God has been put in me by well meaning Mamas on this board...that if I don't prepare now I will be unprepared. :001_smile: TOG isn't the only way to "prepare" and if Honey Bee says no to TOG this year because she isn't quite sure then she's not forever closing the door on being ready for rhetoric. I am taking it one year at a time with my children and with homeschooling. I keep the "next stage of the Trivium" in view at all times and I am checking skills constantly while setting goals. We grow with our kids in TOG. We read great books w/ TOG. There isn't study time necessary for grammar stages when you read aloud with your children. If you use TOG, you are following classical home schooling, extremely close in content to WTM recs. You set goals with all kinds of home schooling. TOG, the tool, faciliates many of the WTM skills w/o adding another program, workbook, or teacher's guide. TOG simplifies WTM recs to one program (in many areas).

 

Tina, TOG is an amazing program that fits perfectly for some and not for others. It's attractive and I visit TOG regularly to get it out of my system...for now. :001_smile: We haven't taken it off the table forever but it's not for "right now". But I am WEARY of the implications by many well meaning Moms that it is the ONLY way to have the BEST for our kids.

No one says TOG is the ONLY anything. I am saying it is most excellent (as in very excellent, not the best ever, although for *me* it is clearly the best) and can fill the needs of a huge variety of families. For what HB has asked, TOG can fill her needs long term. It's not the only way to go, but it is certainly an option. If you plan on using something in the future and can also use it now, then you can save money on it's purchase by not spending money elsewhere.

What is Untrue is that TOG is only for older dc. Frankly, and this is not directed at you, I'm just kind of over hearing people spread the false information that TOG is better used with older dc. I use it Well with 4 dc in grammar stages right now. It provides everything we need to have gentle And rich humanities. I am weary of the implication that TOG is not for younger dc. I am grateful that Tracy(mirko) and 4ever have also found this to be true, amongst others. Particularly tired of hearing it from people who have never used the program.

 

What you refer to as implied, is simply the voice of experience WITH TOG.

 

I made the mistake once of raving about a program that was brand new to us. By the end of the year, it was a total bust. When I talk of things, it is b/c I have a level of certainty. If you receive my certainty as a means of frustration, confusion, condemnation, or anxiety, then I pray you ignore my posts. I won't speak of it(whatever it is), unless I know it as Truth.

 

[Honey Bee]

I started the AO list once and found that the classics (that are always in TOG) were great, but some of the books, b/c they are not abridged, were too much (either not interesting or too academically advanced). We have always preferred to start with lower level books (abridged versions) then follow with original readings. It has made our studies more enjoyable and allowed for better understanding. I love AO for other reasons b/c I love CM, but I was also not willing to have so many threads of history at once. The later was my decision maker b/t AO and TOG. In our house, we must be on the same page. So much so, ds15 will take an Ancients Humanities class when we get back to year 1...not a semester sooner!

 

 

Thanks for all your encouragement. I'll wade through with those things in mind. TOG may be an option for the future, financially its tight right now, but we should be better within a year or so (God willing and the creek don't rise). The VP cards are beautiful, and have good concise information on them, they will be a great resource for you. CM is a great woman, her ideas are unfathomable and so simple, yet so deep. I really hope I can simplify and streamline between the two. I'm not doing it totally for financial reasons, I'll try to keep history with VP and AO mainly literature. Thanks again! We will see how it goes! :001_smile:

[SophiaH]

Well after all my soul searching and prayer, comments and wisdom from you, I've decided to go with Veritas Press/Ambleside Online. We will continue to use our VP stuff (that we have been using this year), just a little lighter and start to slowly incorporate AO selections, especially in the literature department.

 

When I took stock of the books my kids really enjoy, they have always been those from AO. TOG would not give us the freedom to explore that list in any depth, because we would be reading so many books.

 

Another factor was money. I decided I would rather spend that money on books and splurge a little on science this year, maybe we can get a fun kit.

 

I still think TOG rocks! It just won't be a good fit for us right now. VP and TOG cover a lot of the same history (vp leaves out far east, early americas, but that can be worked in using SOTW, which we are already using too). We will continue to follow the history cards using some spines like Kingfisher Book of the Ancient World and SOTW and include some of the great books from their catalog. I'm chuncking the scholars plans, they were not for us! I did learn a lot from using them though. :D So we will use some fun stuff from VP: cards, big map from back of teacher manual, books, and add literature by way of AO.

 

Well, thanks all. :001_smile:

 

FYI...:D If you're wanting to use VP and SOTW together, the Easy Classical History schedules are great for coordinating them. They schedule VP cards, SOTW, some Guerber/Foster books, Kingfisher Encyclopedia, Famous Men books, History Pockets, etc. (the book choices vary with each year) along with readers and read-alouds, many of which are VP choices. We enjoyed the Early Modern schedule earlier this year with Explorers-1815 cards.

[Guest]

What is Untrue is that TOG is only for older dc. Frankly' date=' and this is not directed at you, I'm just kind of over hearing people spread the false information that TOG is better used with older dc. I use it Well with 4 dc in grammar stages [u']right now[/u]. It provides everything we need to have gentle And rich humanities. I am weary of the implication that TOG is not for younger dc. I am grateful that Tracy(mirko) and 4ever have also found this to be true, amongst others. Particularly tired of hearing it from people who have never used the program.[/color]

 

:thumbup: I have read this so many times over I don't get it either. Sadly, it seems to come mostly from people that have never used TOG, or tried to do too much. I was one of them and let my situation play out on here freely to show others that it's NOT TOG, it was me. Being a new homeschooler, as many of us on this thread are, it makes sense to make mistakes while trying to find our way. This did not make TOG the wrong program by ANY means. It just taught me to be wiser in my home from now on. In our case I have a child who is interested in science mostly. Before TOG he was not that interested in history. He does love SOTW and we are having fun with it. However, the book selections in TOG, keeping the young child in picture books during the early years, is has helped my child love history. This is why while I am using SOTW now, I am mostly using it as an intro with my son. The authors of TOG, I find, are very wise to have added it at the UG level. My son is learning a lot, but that is mostly because we are doing both concurrently. If we weren't I probably would have left SOTW for a little later. I am just really glad I came across TOG at the right time, for our family it has been the perfect fit. We can slow it down when we need to (which we needed to for a while while working on local requirements) and we can come back and press ahead. We can lighten the load or we can add on in areas like Ancient Greece where I want more of a focus since I have a Greek background :D. Like Tina and so many others that use TOG have said over and over and over, TOG is a tool. One of the best out there. It is the best tool for us because it allows us the freedom to make it what we want it to be in our home :D. Can't get much better than that!

Edited March 31, 2011 by Guest

[FlyingMOm]

What is Untrue is that TOG is only for older dc. Frankly, and this is not directed at you, I'm just kind of over hearing people spread the false information that TOG is better used with older dc. I use it Well with 4 dc in grammar stages right now. It provides everything we need to have gentle And rich humanities. I am weary of the implication that TOG is not for younger dc. I am grateful that Tracy(mirko) and 4ever have also found this to be true, amongst others. Particularly tired of hearing it from people who have never used the program.

 

:iagree: Another TOG user with only LG kids- My 1rst & Kindy love it & so do I. I am always :confused::confused::confused: when people say it is only for older dc- I think it works beautifully with younger children!

[TracyP]

What is Untrue is that TOG is only for older dc. Frankly, and this is not directed at you, I'm just kind of over hearing people spread the false information that TOG is better used with older dc. I use it Well with 4 dc in grammar stages right now. It provides everything we need to have gentle And rich humanities. I am weary of the implication that TOG is not for younger dc. I am grateful that Tracy(mirko) and 4ever have also found this to be true, amongst others. Particularly tired of hearing it from people who have never used the program.

 

 

It's probably unnecessary to point out but obviously I:001_wub: TOG. I found TOG before I found TWTM and it "had me at hello". I do sometimes feel leary of moms with littles using TOG. TOG is geared for older kids. I've already done this but take a peak through Year 1 and think about how many weeks there is NO literature or NO history scheduled for lower grammar. Why? Because it is geared to the Rhetoric student. Is it only for olders? Of course not, but let's not be misleading here. Many moms will not be happy with TOG with only youngers. I think that is very disappointing when I look at the richness that is to come and what they may miss out on.

 

Also, I have a sad story to tell. I just asked my dc about last year's history. Considering the time, money, and planning that was spent they remember very little.:tongue_smilie:I don't mind, we had fun. I am just not sure that most moms "wouldn't mind". So Katrina, others, don't be afraid to voice why you don't choose to use TOG even though (obviously) you haven't seen it if you made that choice. We need all points of view on this board or what is the point?

Edited March 31, 2011 by TracyP
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