s/o Brothers dating Rules: "Dating" meaning and limits

[Ginevra]

Hopefully, this won't be too jumbled.

 

Whenever someone asks questions about boy-girl relationships around here, there's always a fairly large number of posters who say something such as: "None of my children would be permitted to date at X age anyway." There are several facets to this response that confuse me. Part of it is this: What are you calling "dating"? If "dating" is actually going somewhere that is not the house, matching up in a love-interest fashion one-on-one, then - okay, I agree, dating is pretty much 16 years old or older to me. Easily controlled. Simple to impose limits. But if "dating" just means they're crushing on each other big, are known as "liking" each other, hug and/or hold hands, FB each other? How do those of you who set such limits have such limits? Do you just say, "Don't ever imagine this really adorable boy is your boyfriend and give no public hint that you're any such thing because you can't be that until age X (or your wedding day, or whenever).

[goldberry]

If "dating" is actually going somewhere that is not the house, matching up in a love-interest fashion one-on-one, then - okay, I agree, dating is pretty much 16 years old or older to me. QUOTE]

 

This. Our faith encourages not dating until ready for marraige. My DD had her first hard "crush" at 11. Feelings are real and normal and cannot be dictated. But I used it as an opportunity to talk about how feelings can go up and down so much during youth, and how that can affect our judgment. How that is one of the reasons for waiting until closer to adulthood for dating. Clear separating between feeling and actions.

[Jean in Newcastle]

We don't encourage displays of affection outside of family, really. Having a crush on someone wouldn't bother me. Hugs and holding hands would, outside of a dating relationship because there is a more intimate bond there even if it is an "innocent" bond. Communicating in groups wouldn't bother me. Having one-on-one conversations on FB or anywhere else would because that's how you grow a more intimate bond with someone that is based on something other than superficial things. Once they are at dating age, then I would encourage lots of communication one on one to really get to know each other.

[The Girls' Mom]

We don't encourage displays of affection outside of family, really. Having a crush on someone wouldn't bother me. Hugs and holding hands would, outside of a dating relationship because there is a more intimate bond there even if it is an "innocent" bond. Communicating in groups wouldn't bother me. Having one-on-one conversations on FB or anywhere else would because that's how you grow a more intimate bond with someone that is based on something other than superficial things. Once they are at dating age, then I would encourage lots of communication one on one to really get to know each other.

 

:iagree:

 

We talk A LOT, my daughter and I, about this sort of thing. I've told her that I'm not naive, and I know she'll have feelings for boys. But we've also discussed how important it is to save yourself emotionally AND physically for your future spouse. She currently has a young man that she is VERY good friends with, and if allowed would have developed into a pretty strong crush/dating relationship. But they've worked hard to keep it a friendship, and are enjoying that immensely without all the extra baggage of dating.

[Ginevra]

We don't encourage displays of affection outside of family, really. Having a crush on someone wouldn't bother me. Hugs and holding hands would, outside of a dating relationship because there is a more intimate bond there even if it is an "innocent" bond. Communicating in groups wouldn't bother me. Having one-on-one conversations on FB or anywhere else would because that's how you grow a more intimate bond with someone that is based on something other than superficial things. Once they are at dating age, then I would encourage lots of communication one on one to really get to know each other.

 

But if this had cropped up? Would you reel them in? My dd has a boyfriend. She is 13. She knows she is not allowed to "date." They hug and hold hands when they are around each other. This is okay with me and it's okay with the boy's mother, but it seems somewhat moot to me either way. I could not now say, "You aren't allowed to talk to Beautiful Boy anymore on FB. No more hugs, either." It would crush her and probably incinerate our relationship. I also think it would set her up to attempt sneaking around, which to me would be far worse then having her give the boy a hug goodbye as I stand right there.

 

So, I guess what I'm wondering is how parents who have standards like these set that up - is that something you do when they are 6 and still think boys are nothing but a noise with dirt on it? Or when the beginnings of "liking" start to happen - and then what do you say? You can like someone but keep it a secret until you're no less than 16? (FTR, I'm not thinking of changing my position now, but I'm curious about how it's done because of the frequency which I hear this response.)

 

Oh, and one more tangent. I was just told about a situation like this in a mostly-homeschoolers activity. Some parents were trying to drive apart a girl and boy who "like" each other; trying to keep them from being allowed to work together on a project or be around each other. This does not seem wise to me; these kids are 15. In some countries, they would be arranging their wedding! ;)

[tntgoodwin]

My oldest daughter understands that she will marry her prince one day.

 

When she is 30.

 

 

:party:

 

That is as far as we got with this subject with her. :)

[angela in ohio]

So, I guess what I'm wondering is how parents who have standards like these set that up - is that something you do when they are 6 and still think boys are nothing but a noise with dirt on it? Or when the beginnings of "liking" start to happen - and then what do you say? You can like someone but keep it a secret until you're no less than 16? (FTR, I'm not thinking of changing my position now, but I'm curious about how it's done because of the frequency which I hear this response.)

 

We discuss it long before the teen years. By the time they are old enough to start having those feelings, they already know and can express themselves how to handle it. My 15 yo has had a few boys interested in her, but she wants to sepnd her time on other things and work on other relationships right now. She would tell you that she has goals and plans, and she thinks anything like dating is not productive at this age.

 

I can't imagine trying to enforce rules like that (no dating) on a teen. We made sure to be at the point where it wouldn't be an issue before that.

Edited March 26, 2011 by angela in ohio

[LidiyaDawn]

dd14 isn't allowed to "date" yet - and by date, I'm using your (OP) definition there about going out, alone, in a romantic sense, calling each other 'boyfriend and girlfriend', the physical affection (kissing, handholding, etc) that goes with that (hugging hi & bye - that's pretty normal for many teens here, so that's not automatically out)..... she has guy friends though, and she has guys that she 'likes'. I don't tell her that she's not allowed to 'like' someone -- those feelings are perfectly normal at this age. Telling her that she "can't" like boys would be like telling her that she "can't" breathe. :p

 

So basically...there's no dating in the way that adults do it. "Liking" or having crushes? Going through that heart-jumping-out thing? Totally normal and I don't make a fuss. In fact, sometimes I actually help her out - we were in Burger King the other day to pick up lunch and I noticed her attention had been drawn rather strongly to a certain cash.... the one being run by a curly haired boy of about 15, of course. I told her I had to go to the ladies room and could she take care of the ordering? She was MORE than happy to do that 'favour' for me. ;)

[Beetkvass]

We don't have any hard or fast rules yet but we plan on having strict rules about dating. Right now my oldest is only 10. But obviously you have waited too long to discuss it if your child is dating someone and holding hands and hugging already etc.

 

I think a situation that is presumed benign, because it's just groups of kids having fun, is often not. My sil, the priest's kid, managed to lose her virginity at the age of 12 yo! I'm sure her parents were not letting her out on actual grown up dates. But it seems to me the church youth group was obviously very poorly supervised.

[J-rap]

***

Edited February 19, 2023 by J-rap

[katemary63]

Our family culture:

 

No dating till your 16.

 

Dating is defined as going out somewhere with a member of the opposite sex alone. Being allowed to hug and hold hands.

 

Group activities during the teen years are decided on a case by case basis depending on who, what, where, why, when. Few that are unchaparoned are allowed. We just said no.

 

You can "like" whom ever you want, but we don't say "my boyfriend" ect. until age 16. Facebook type sites are monitored and if there is boyfriend/ girlfriend type talk, it would be disallowed. But this is all known and talked about all along. (example: my DD 10 even asked my permission to confirm her own sister as a sister on FB. She totally understands and accepts our parental authority.)

 

Kids younger then 16 are not left alone with members of the opposite sex. (Especially ones they like.) This isn't that difficult. You have to be willing to say no. You have to be willing to go along. I was always home. I always knew where they were and who they were with.

 

It's a known family rule, long before they'd even be interested that it's inapropriate for children to have physical affection with members of the opposite sex.

 

Our daughters agreed with our values and held purity as a personal conviction so it was never a problem.

 

Our son was just never left alone with girls. :D But seriously, I don't think he went on his first date till he was 17. And while he was a little more interested in holding hands/ hugging (and more?), he remained a virgin till he was over 20 and with his fiance, so I guess he agreed with most of that value after all! (He's 24 now. The wedding is in June!)

 

FYI: Age 16 is no magic number. Our oldest had her first boyfriend at age 16. They were both Christians "committed" to purity. We discussed it with them. But it turns out they got into some heavy making out that now, my daughter regrets. She has told me she wishes that she had not been allowed to date and that she was not mature enough at age 16 to stick with what she believed. She felt immensely guilty. She feels her little sister's dating age should be 18 and is sincere about it. She was the most amazingly mature 16 year old you'd ever meet, hands down, no question, everybody said so. I trusted her 100%. Just a caution.

[Carrie12345]

We've chosen to play it all by ear, and rely on the foundation of respect for our authority we've built to hold steady when we make (careful) decisions on the fly.

 

It's quite possible that our eldest may be gay, so setting up rules about opposite sex interaction years in advance seems silly to me. ;)

[Ginevra]

dd14 isn't allowed to "date" yet - and by date, I'm using your (OP) definition there about going out, alone, in a romantic sense, calling each other 'boyfriend and girlfriend', the physical affection (kissing, handholding, etc) that goes with that (hugging hi & bye - that's pretty normal for many teens here, so that's not automatically out)..... she has guy friends though, and she has guys that she 'likes'. I don't tell her that she's not allowed to 'like' someone -- those feelings are perfectly normal at this age. Telling her that she "can't" like boys would be like telling her that she "can't" breathe. :p

 

So basically...there's no dating in the way that adults do it. "Liking" or having crushes? Going through that heart-jumping-out thing? Totally normal and I don't make a fuss. In fact, sometimes I actually help her out - we were in Burger King the other day to pick up lunch and I noticed her attention had been drawn rather strongly to a certain cash.... the one being run by a curly haired boy of about 15, of course. I told her I had to go to the ladies room and could she take care of the ordering? She was MORE than happy to do that 'favour' for me. ;)

 

This all makes sense to me. See, when dd was first showing signs of "liking" this boy, I thought it better to maintain openness than to act all horrified and risk having her go underground about it. And I did help her, in a sense, too. I took her to a competition he was in, just so she could be there demonstrating that she cared about his interests.

 

We don't have any hard or fast rules yet but we plan on having strict rules about dating. Right now my oldest is only 10. But obviously you have waited too long to discuss it if your child is dating someone and holding hands and hugging already etc.

 

I think a situation that is presumed benign, because it's just groups of kids having fun, is often not. My sil, the priest's kid, managed to lose her virginity at the age of 12 yo! I'm sure her parents were not letting her out on actual grown up dates. But it seems to me the church youth group was obviously very poorly supervised.

 

I agree and I like to think I'm not naive at all about things like that. My sister got pg at 14; she was seeing the guy (who was 17 - red flag right there) only in the context of going along with my oldest sister. Obviously, my oldest sister was not interested in supervising her younger sister and was most likely making trouble with the boy she liked at the same time. I also remember some of the scenarios that went on in the back of the bus on a TEEN CHOIR CHURCH trip! It's only a mercy that the boy I liked then wasn't in the choir or we might have been snuggled on that pile of coats in the back, too. :001_huh:

 

 

Our family culture:

 

No dating till your 16.

 

Dating is defined as going out somewhere with a member of the opposite sex alone. Being allowed to hug and hold hands.

 

Group activities during the teen years are decided on a case by case basis depending on who, what, where, why, when. Few that are unchaparoned are allowed. We just said no.

 

You can "like" whom ever you want, but we don't say "my boyfriend" ect. until age 16. Facebook type sites are monitored and if there is boyfriend/ girlfriend type talk, it would be disallowed. But this is all known and talked about all along. (example: my DD 10 even asked my permission to confirm her own sister as a sister on FB. She totally understands and accepts our parental authority.)

 

Kids younger then 16 are not left alone with members of the opposite sex. (Especially ones they like.) This isn't that difficult. You have to be willing to say no. You have to be willing to go along. I was always home. I always knew where they were and who they were with.

 

It's a known family rule, long before they'd even be interested that it's inapropriate for children to have physical affection with members of the opposite sex.

 

Our daughters agreed with our values and held purity as a personal conviction so it was never a problem.

 

Our son was just never left alone with girls. :D But seriously, I don't think he went on his first date till he was 17. And while he was a little more interested in holding hands/ hugging (and more?), he remained a virgin till he was over 20 and with his fiance, so I guess he agreed with most of that value after all! (He's 24 now. The wedding is in June!)

 

FYI: Age 16 is no magic number. Our oldest had her first boyfriend at age 16. They were both Christians "committed" to purity. We discussed it with them. But it turns out they got into some heavy making out that now, my daughter regrets. She has told me she wishes that she had not been allowed to date and that she was not mature enough at age 16 to stick with what she believed. She felt immensely guilty. She feels her little sister's dating age should be 18 and is sincere about it. She was the most amazingly mature 16 year old you'd ever meet, hands down, no question, everybody said so. I trusted her 100%. Just a caution.

 

I agree that 16 (or whatever age) is not a magic number. I think the reason that age sounds about right for me and many others is that at 16, most have at least some independence from authority by way of driving a car themselves, having a paying job, possibly even taking classes at college. At that point, you most likely have to assume they either can decide for themselves correctly or not, but they are at the point of not being shielded from their own choices much any more.

[Wheres Toto]

Keeping in mind that my oldest has always gone to public school, that we are not Christian or Conservative and are okay with dating outside of courting. I actually would prefer she not get married until she graduates college and has a chance to live on her own a little.

 

My oldest was allowed to date starting at 16. This meant basically what you described - going out on dates. We have rules about age - boy must be within 1 year of her age, I need to know where they are going, she has a curfew, etc.

 

When she was a little younger, she was allowed to call a boy her "boyfriend" since all that meant was the liked each other, they would have lunch together at school, she could go to (well chaperoned) dances at school or community dances held at the local Catholic church and meet the boy there, she could go out with a group of friends with an adult along.

 

I liked the idea that she could get comfortable being around a boy before there was pressure of a dating relationship. She sees boys as people and has no problem telling a guy no, doesn't feel like she has to always have a boyfriend and must do what it takes to make him happy. She's comfortable enough to be able to act normal around boys and has been known to turn down a date to stay home and read. She also doesn't feel like she needs to sneak around and hide things from me, which is very important to me.

[Joanne]

Response from a liberal (on this board) and moderate (in mainstream):

 

My kids are 16 next week, 14 and 12. They attend public high school and private school for the youngers.

 

Personally, I am *so* not a fan or advocate of "no dating" and "waiting until you are ready for marriage" before exploring companionship and the sexual energy.

 

When I was more traditionally Christian, I often thought about how Mary was 14! 15, tops, according to most documentation. I can't imagine telling my kids to wait until they are in their 20's. I don't believe in early marriage for Western culture - so I would not encourage that, either. I have evaluated the whole courtship thing (I see it as a continuum) as extra, extra biblical. It's not faith bound. It's Christian *culture* but certainly not doctrine.

 

I was personally creeped out, for example, that the first time the newly wed Duggars kissed was at the wedding. :confused:

 

So........when I notice or am told about the sexual energy welling up and my kids "liking" someone, we talk. A lot. With one of the situations my son was involved in, there was too much intensity, and drama. We talked, we communicated, I coached, I watched. I even worried. In the end, he ended it and guess what? He can identify drama, deal with drama, disengage and maintain health. I'd *rather* he have that life experience than not. I don't disallow hand holding, a hug. My oldest has kissed.

 

I don't "buy" that dating in the teens = practicing divorce. :glare: I don't buy that the sexual energy and desire for companionship and affliation is not Godly/unspiritual.

 

And, with all that liberal parenting, my kids are far, far, far less sexually accelerated than I was and have a healthier, more balanced perspective.

[Rosie_0801]

It's quite possible that our eldest may be gay, so setting up rules about opposite sex interaction years in advance seems silly to me. ;)

 

My aunt likes to tell me these things skip a generation :rolleyes: so this made me think of comments in another thread about age gaps between people dating. I wonder what I would have to say about that if the need to say something arises... Sometimes I'm glad my kids are small and can hardly talk yet.

 

:)

Rosie

[Jean in Newcastle]

We've talked about levels of intimacy since they were very young, adjusting the depth of how we talk about it as they get older. My oldest is only 13, so we haven't gotten deep into these sorts of emotions yet but we have some. His best guy friend recently offered his older (15 year old) sister up to ds as a girlfriend and we did talk about that!

[SailorMom]

First - I don't know how you can date without a car...

Second - crushes and notes at school don't bother me, but no individual "dates" until after they can drive themselves :)

Thrid - Thank God that my parents and DH's parents let us date - I was 16, he was 17. If they hadn't I would not be married to this wonderful man.

[Ginevra]

Response from a liberal (on this board) and moderate (in mainstream):

 

My kids are 16 next week, 14 and 12. They attend public high school and private school for the youngers.

 

Personally, I am *so* not a fan or advocate of "no dating" and "waiting until you are ready for marriage" before exploring companionship and the sexual energy.

 

When I was more traditionally Christian, I often thought about how Mary was 14! 15, tops, according to most documentation. I can't imagine telling my kids to wait until they are in their 20's. I don't believe in early marriage for Western culture - so I would not encourage that, either. I have evaluated the whole courtship thing (I see it as a continuum) as extra, extra biblical. It's not faith bound. It's Christian *culture* but certainly not doctrine.

 

I was personally creeped out, for example, that the first time the newly wed Duggars kissed was at the wedding. :confused:

 

So........when I notice or am told about the sexual energy welling up and my kids "liking" someone, we talk. A lot. With one of the situations my son was involved in, there was too much intensity, and drama. We talked, we communicated, I coached, I watched. I even worried. In the end, he ended it and guess what? He can identify drama, deal with drama, disengage and maintain health. I'd *rather* he have that life experience than not. I don't disallow hand holding, a hug. My oldest has kissed.

 

I don't "buy" that dating in the teens = practicing divorce. :glare: I don't buy that the sexual energy and desire for companionship and affliation is not Godly/unspiritual.

 

And, with all that liberal parenting, my kids are far, far, far less sexually accelerated than I was and have a healthier, more balanced perspective.

 

I feel similarly about everything you've said here, Joanne.