Note for Catholics who are using/considering CLE

[RootAnn]

Page 366—Mary Queen of Scots unpopular in England because she outlawed Protestantism and tried to restore Catholicism in England

 

Actually, this should not refer to Mary, Queen of Scots. I think the reviewer confused the two Mary's (cousins). This section refers to Mary Tudor, Henry VIII's daughter by his first wife, Katherine of Aragon (Isabelle & Ferdinand's youngest daughter). ... And she was very popular at the beginning of her reign among the common people, because she was going to let them go back to their comfy Catholic practices. The nobles & others were worried she would make them give back all the lands, items, and wealth Henry VIII & his son Edward stole from the Catholic Church.

[ElizaG]

I think if you use CLE for every subject, it might not be college prep material, but the math and LA certainly are and I have yet to find anything offensive in those materials and doubt that I will. (...) I can't imagine using the science, social studies, etc. unless I was desperate because there are so many more interesting approaches to those subjects.

I agree that people on this board aren't likely to be using entirely CLE or R&S (although I've noticed some who do, at least for elementary). And their materials do seem very solid for certain subjects. Just thought it was funny that the people on the Mennonite board seemed to be having as many curriculum issues as we do. ;)

 

We were looking at the social studies because I'd like to do a world cultures year after we finish SOTW1, and I'm having trouble finding a core text that's meaty, yet suitable for reading aloud to young children. The secular ones we've looked at are too Usborne-y for our purposes, and the only Catholic one I've found is "My World of Neighbors." It's a pretty good book, but it's 50 years old. Lepanto Press revised and republished it, but they don't seem to have updated the pictures, and the bits they've added have quite a few typos. :001_huh: I think we'll go ahead with it anyway, though. It's just going to be used as a starting point for our own books and activities. (We've tried doing without the core text altogether, but find that we get too scattered that way.)

 

I don't think these sorts of issues are unique to Catholic curricula. Some of the Catholic materials we've used are excellent, and I've seen some really cheesy/typo-filled materials from smaller Protestant companies. Still, Maria Montessori and St. Maximilian Kolbe would say that we should always strive to follow the highest possible standards in publishing materials for children. I tend to agree with this. The thing is, the Catholic homeschool materials that we like the most, or have heard the best things about (e.g., Ye Hedge School, Christian Heritage Art Program, ABC's of Christian Culture, Sound Beginnings, Our Roman Roots) usually aren't very "workbooky" or suitable for independent work. I think this is precisely because these publishers have high standards; they know that the best learning typically takes place with lots of in-depth reading or discussion, or through multi-sensory activities. But in the context of a busy family life, sometimes a workbook is what's needed. It's a bit of a conundrum.

[zookeeperof3]

I just e-mailed Aquinas Learning. This is a copy and paste of her email to me.

 

 

Currently we are offering directorships nationwide to a limited number. If you or anyone in your homeschool community would be interested in starting one in your area, let me know.

 

 

Unfortunately, we don't have a published curriculum to sell. In about a year, once all three cycles are written, we will be offering online enrollments for those who can't find an Aquinas Learning Center in their area.

[rlugbill]

I am Mennonite (Mennonite Church USA), although not conservative Mennonite as the CLE publishers are.

 

I would like to apologize for any anti-Catholicism in their materials. I do not feel it is appropriate to put down other religions.

 

I would also like to explain Mennonites a little bit. Mennonites (Anabaptists) were part of the radical Reformation in the 1500s. They were severely persecuted, put to death, land taken from them, children taken from them, etc. for their faith.

 

At that time, the church and state were one and if you were not a member of the state church, you were treated like a non-citizen and a criminal.

 

This persecution continued after many left Europe and came to the U.S. Mennonites have been imprisoned, tortured, and harassed for their beliefs in the U.S.

 

This does not excuse any statements against Catholics, but perhaps it helps some of you to understand it a little better.

 

I hope that rather than going public with a boycott of mennonite materials, that you consider a process that might help heal the rift between the two religions that has existed for 500 years. I believe the Lutherans and the Reform church have taken some positive steps in this regard.

 

We have used CLE for math and language arts and they have worked well for us. I do think anyone should use materials that are contrary to their religion, but I don't think the math or language arts materials are.

 

Anyway, I do apologize and want you all to know that not all Mennonites agree with anti-Catholic statements.

[QuirkyKapers]

I am Mennonite (Mennonite Church USA), although not conservative Mennonite as the CLE publishers are.

 

I would like to apologize for any anti-Catholicism in their materials. I do not feel it is appropriate to put down other religions.

 

I would also like to explain Mennonites a little bit. Mennonites (Anabaptists) were part of the radical Reformation in the 1500s. They were severely persecuted, put to death, land taken from them, children taken from them, etc. for their faith.

 

At that time, the church and state were one and if you were not a member of the state church, you were treated like a non-citizen and a criminal.

 

This persecution continued after many left Europe and came to the U.S. Mennonites have been imprisoned, tortured, and harassed for their beliefs in the U.S.

 

This does not excuse any statements against Catholics, but perhaps it helps some of you to understand it a little better.

 

I hope that rather than going public with a boycott of mennonite materials, that you consider a process that might help heal the rift between the two religions that has existed for 500 years. I believe the Lutherans and the Reform church have taken some positive steps in this regard.

 

We have used CLE for math and language arts and they have worked well for us. I do think anyone should use materials that are contrary to their religion, but I don't think the math or language arts materials are.

 

Anyway, I do apologize and want you all to know that not all Mennonites agree with anti-Catholic statements.

 

 

:iagree: I am Mennonite, also Mennonite church USA not conservative, and I certainly do not agree with Anti-Catholic statements. Mennonite (Anabaptists) were persecuted by various church groups. Also, Anabaptists aren't considered Protestant, at least historically. Their beliefs were different enough from Catholic and other Protestant groups that they considered themselves different, which is why they were perscuted by the various church groups.

Edited March 16, 2011 by QuirkyKapers

[Literary Mom]

I think if you use CLE for every subject, it might not be college prep material, but the math and LA certainly are and I have yet to find anything offensive in those materials and doubt that I will. I have heard people mention that some of the reading program wasn't right for their family, so if I ever do want to use that, I would preread. I can't imagine using the science, social studies, etc. unless I was desperate because there are so many more interesting approaches to those subjects.

 

Anyway, I was raised Catholic and I have seen many materials that do some Catholic bashing and I just use that as an opportunity to explain different viewpoints to my children. I'm not going to drop a wonderful program that is a perfect fit for my family just because there are some things I don't like in the materials I'm not even using. I doubt I'd be able to find anything I could use in that case.

 

If I really wanted to make sure I wasn't supporting the company, I'd buy the materials used.

 

Lisa

 

:iagree:

 

I, too, have had good success using CLE Math and Language Arts this past year and was thrilled to finally feel "settled" in those areas. I'm not Catholic, but it does bother me to support people who are anti any particular branch of Christianity, as I really appreciate what each tradition brings to our faith (even moreso because of being introduced to some church history via SOTW!). That said, it's impossible to be consistent across the board (unless you don't engage in any form of commerce), so I think it's a matter of picking your battles. In my case, I refuse to buy anything from Vision Forum because of their patriocentric theology.

[ElizaG]

I hope that rather than going public with a boycott of mennonite materials, that you consider a process that might help heal the rift between the two religions that has existed for 500 years. I believe the Lutherans and the Reform church have taken some positive steps in this regard.

I'm not sure what you mean by "going public with a boycott of mennonite materials." :confused: There's nothing official going on here. I'm just one homeschooling parent who's passing along some information about the way CLE's curriculum describes the Catholic Church. Each family can decide whether to continue use their materials, and Abeka's, and BJU's, and those of any other publisher whose materials contain claims that we find similarly offensive and misleading.

 

On an official level, the Catholic Church has engaged in dialogue with the Mennonite World Conference. There was an especially intensive and fruitful discussion between 1998 and 2003, which ended with a joint statement that's well worth reading.

 

Called Together To Be Peacemakers

 

More here:

 

Report on Mennonite-Catholic Relations

International Contacts Between Mennonites and Catholics

 

As I understand it, though, the more conservative groups aren't part of the MWC. I'm not sure if they had any involvement in the dialogue, or if they would agree with the declaration. If the textbook in question is anything to go by, I'd guess probably not. It's not a matter of erasing history (we agree that some Catholic leaders and lay people did terrible things), or glossing over theological differences. It's that the material is presented in a way that completely omits any mention of the complexity of the historical circumstances, and imputes 100% evil motives to the Catholics. This is where, IMO, it crosses the line between a "non-Catholic perspective" and an "anti-Catholic perspective."

 

Edited to add: I'm from Ontario, where there are a fair number of Mennonites of various persuasions. My experiences with them all up to this point have been very positive. If not for this, we probably would never have considered using CLE in the first place. I do enjoy and value their way of looking at many issues (such as poverty and environmental stewardship), and find it closer to Catholicism in some ways than the more common American Protestant attitudes. I even liked how this perspective came across in the CLE social studies texts (we bought both the 3rd & 4th grade ones) -- except of course for the stereotyping of Catholics, Muslims, etc. Of course, I know that these attitudes aren't universal, but it was an unpleasant wake-up call for us.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Eleanor
added P.S.

[MrsMe]

Food for thought:

You don't want to give your money to people who are blatantly anti-Catholic. Understandable. But yet we give our money to Mennonite curriculum and we're surprised when things like this happen. We buy curriculum materials that contain completely evolution-based teachings, from Usborne to any encyclopedia's to just about any science related book when we're Christian. So we buy a Mennonite product then complain about it's contents.

 

I would just ask to not condemn other products on public boards when it's clear they are of other mindsets. While it's a heads up, it just doesn't make sense to have a post telling people to steer clear in addition to the other post as well.

 

However, I do believe some of the things CLE says about the way it used to be. For simplicity purposes, some were good, some had bad teachings. I don't want to get into it, but his thread just seems wrong.

[Michele B]

I'm not saying Elizabeth was perfect, but historical record shows evidence against her being as persecutory of Catholics as Mary was of Protestants.

 

Have you ever read anything by Eamon Duffy? There is quite a bit of new research now on Mary Tudor and Elizabeth I. Examining things now after the hysteria has (mostly ;)) calmed down, it looks like Bess' popularity was mostly good propaganda. And had Mary had a child, things would have been quite different. I highly recommend Duffy's The Stripping of the Altars. It chronicles the feelings of the times through first hand documents, and is quite different than I was taught in school. He also has another book called Fires of Faith that I would like. It re-examines the reign of Mary Tudor.

[Michele B]

Food for thought:

 

I would just ask to not condemn other products on public boards when it's clear they are of other mindsets. While it's a heads up, it just doesn't make sense to have a post telling people to steer clear in addition to the other post as well.

 

.

 

 

There is a big difference between condemning and a heads up. I do not see a problem with either post.

[ElizaG]

Food for thought:

You don't want to give your money to people who are blatantly anti-Catholic. Understandable. But yet we give our money to Mennonite curriculum and we're surprised when things like this happen.

Well, I don't assume that curriculum from non-Catholic Christian providers is necessarily going to be "blatantly anti-Catholic." I'm not as quick as some people might be to apply that label, and wouldn't use it to describe books that simply reflect standard non-Catholic conceptions (e.g., SOTW2). In the case in question, though, it was apparent that the whole purpose of that chapter was to depict Catholics as comic-book villains. If it had been worded in a less extreme way, I wouldn't have posted about it. There are people here who are Mennonites themselves, who have expressed that they also find this sort of stereotyped portrayal objectionable.

 

Just to clarify another point -- I would not have expected CLE's Bible or history to be suitable for my family. I mistakenly thought their 3rd grade social studies was about world geography; otherwise, I wouldn't even have glanced at it. I guess that was a fortunate mistake, though. Better to know these things now, than to find out later. :001_huh:

[Caitilin]

There is a big difference between condemning and a heads up. I do not see a problem with either post.

 

:iagree: exactly right. Eleanor posted about her concerns for her own family, and thought it likely that other Catholic families would have similar concerns. She did not at any point call for a boycott of CLE by anyone.

[blessedmom3]

Food for thought:

You don't want to give your money to people who are blatantly anti-Catholic. Understandable. But yet we give our money to Mennonite curriculum and we're surprised when things like this happen. We buy curriculum materials that contain completely evolution-based teachings, from Usborne to any encyclopedia's to just about any science related book when we're Christian. So we buy a Mennonite product then complain about it's contents.

 

I would just ask to not condemn other products on public boards when it's clear they are of other mindsets. While it's a heads up, it just doesn't make sense to have a post telling people to steer clear in addition to the other post as well.

 

However, I do believe some of the things CLE says about the way it used to be. For simplicity purposes, some were good, some had bad teachings. I don't want to get into it, but his thread just seems wrong.

 

:iagree:

I am not Mennonite but I use CLE for Math & LA . I did not find anything offensive but even if I did , I would not complain . Since they have a different faith than mine, I'd expect different views of things. They have created one of the best maths in the market . As said I did not find anything that's too "Mennonite" .

 

If one does not agree with their religious content ( or does not want to put up with it ) they should not buy it in the first place .

[ElizaG]

If one does not agree with their religious content ( or does not want to put up with it ) they should not buy it in the first place .

I agree completely. But it's pretty hard to make decisions like these when you don't know what the "religious content" is.

 

Of course it's obvious that they're Mennonite, and thus that they have serious historical and theological disagreements with the Catholic Church -- but there are a lot of different ways to present this to third-graders. I just wasn't expecting them to take this particular approach. But I've since learned that their community places a great deal of emphasis on keeping their memories of that era alive through their handbooks, martyrologies, hymns, etc. Talking about these things is a major part of their lives. So it makes more sense to me now.

 

I'm imagining what might happen if a group of Catholics decided to separate from the established Church and the world, and for generations, they spent much of their time telling each other stories about how they'd been mistreated, both by non-Catholics and by the Vatican. It wouldn't be surprising to find negative stereotypes being perpetuated among some members of such a group. We actually have some very publicly visible examples of that. :glare:

 

Hey, maybe we could hit Mel up for the funding for some snazzy new workbooks?

 

(j/k... ;))

Edited March 17, 2011 by Eleanor
clarity

[ktgrok]

She didn't tell anyone to boycott them. She just wanted to alert people to what seemed hateful in the curriculum so others could make their own choices. I expect other faiths to have curriculums that disagree with my religious beliefs. I don't expect them to be hateful about the religion as a whole. These are two different things.

 

Katie

Food for thought:

You don't want to give your money to people who are blatantly anti-Catholic. Understandable. But yet we give our money to Mennonite curriculum and we're surprised when things like this happen. We buy curriculum materials that contain completely evolution-based teachings, from Usborne to any encyclopedia's to just about any science related book when we're Christian. So we buy a Mennonite product then complain about it's contents.

 

I would just ask to not condemn other products on public boards when it's clear they are of other mindsets. While it's a heads up, it just doesn't make sense to have a post telling people to steer clear in addition to the other post as well.

 

However, I do believe some of the things CLE says about the way it used to be. For simplicity purposes, some were good, some had bad teachings. I don't want to get into it, but his thread just seems wrong.

[cholderby]

:banghead::banghead:

 

So the math and science books that I just got today won't be my "final answer" for next year????

 

:banghead::banghead:

 

Thank you for posting this. I have experienced anti-Catholicism in the most unexpected places (once in a birthing book!). It is something that I was worried about but didn't know how to guard against it other than bullitin boards such as this.

 

"If one does not agree with their religious content ( or does not want to put up with it ) they should not buy it in the first place ."

 

But how does one know the religious content to begin with if not posts such as this?

[mommaduck]

No surprise at all. Rod & Staff has had similar stuff in some of their books in the past. Both companies are conservative Mennonites and the ignorance in the groups are astounding (I'm speaking from the experience of having lived inside of one of the groups at one time).

[12Stars]

I think if one religions depicts anothor in a untruthful way then yes it is a concern to me. I am not going to disagree with another religion for sharing their faith through out their materials. So long as it does not turn into bashing of other faiths.

[dakarimom5]

I just wanted to thank everyone who has posted to this thread with ideas for options to CLE. I went to the St. George site and noticed they had secular curricula there. That, to me, says that it is safe for me to use. Drive Thru History is on there and so is HWT. The Emmanual books site has TT for math. I am very excited to explore both of these sites...and I've been doing that off and on all day!!

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

What did you see that made you not use SOTW? I have only seen SOTW 1 and I haven't noticed anything wrong thus far.

 

SOTW 1 is perfectly fine from a Catholic perspective. I'm trying to remember all the issues I had with 2. When the leader of the Franks had his army baptized she writes, "they probably weren't all Christians" which is an issue with the meaning of baptism as a sacrament. It overlooks the importance of religious orders preserving literacy. I'm going to read How the Irish Saved Civilization for more info on that. I doesn't refer to all Christians as Catholics before the great schism. The whole book is set up to pave the way for Martin Luther. Really, these are not surprising, since SWB is Protestant. It was a nice refresher for me, and I will use it as a realoud. I may even get the cd's and just omit the tracks I don't want them to hear. I just want to make sure that the Protestant spirit of the book is not passed on. It reminds me of learning World Civ. in 7th grade in public school. The public school books were all of a Protestant slant. I remember the inaccuracies presented about Galileo.

 

CWH is Connecting With History

It is available here

http://www.stgeorgebooks.com/index.cfm?hs=1

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

I just wanted to add that I am NOT Catholic that wants to whitewash our church history. There are sinners in every church. As a Catholic I find it important to teach those parts of church history from a particularly Catholic perspective, so the faith is not thrown out with the sin. I hope that makes sense!!!!!

[dakarimom5]

Someone mentioned Connecting with History. Am I right in thinking it is like TOG and SL only for Catholics?

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Someone mentioned Connecting with History. Am I right in thinking it is like TOG and SL only for Catholics?

 

I haven't used those, but I don't think it is a direct comparison. I personally don't use it the way it is intended with the units. I mainly use the book list and go in chronological order. Vol 1 is designed to go in a similar fashion as Jeff Cavins great adventure Bible study.

 

There is a yahoo group. Sonya is always posting interesting articles on there.

[wimseycat]

I had a nice long post all typed up this morning and then accidentally hit the "refresh" button so now it is gone. As a result, I will now have a shorter post and try to get straight to the point. Some Catholic materials that I have found particularily solid as well as pleasing to the eye are:

 

Catholic Textbook Project (good for a history spine, will also be publishing future LA and science books)

The Didache Series (particularily The History of the Church for reference. My ds goes to Catholic hs and I was thrilled to find they use this series for religious ed!)

Bethlehem Books (supplements/enrichment to history spine)

Homeschool Connections (online Catholic classes for middle and high schoolers)

Emmanuel Books/Laura Berquist (probably the most similar in philosophy to WTM but utilizing Catholic materials)

Some CHC materials (I like their new Father Brown readers w/free study guide download and the Stories of the Saints workbooks for short reading comprehension work)

Loyola Press (although I am not a fan of some of their materials, they do have updated versions of Voyages in English and their grammar workbooks are ok - they are part of the K12 curr. we use. I believe Seton uses the older version of Voyages in English is that correct?)

 

At times, as a Catholic hs'er, I really struggle with having to choose between a Catholic product that I am not thrilled with and a good, well planned protestant/secular/whatever product. I truly want to support the Catholic homeschooling publishing world but it is tough sometimes. I think part of the issue is that Catholic hs'ers were a little late to the table and other companies had already established themselves and gone through multiple revisions. In the next ten years I bet there will be a plethora of great Catholic products to choose from. Too late for me, but great for the next generation!

 

Sorry if my recommendations are already well known to everybody and I have been preaching to the choir! ;) I think I mentioned a few things I didn't see mentioned in the other posts though. As a curriculum junkie and a Catholic I have always found this a fascinating topic for discussion!

[TheAutumnOak]

SOTW 1 is perfectly fine from a Catholic perspective. I'm trying to remember all the issues I had with 2. When the leader of the Franks had his army baptized she writes, "they probably weren't all Christians" which is an issue with the meaning of baptism as a sacrament. It overlooks the importance of religious orders preserving literacy.

 

I could be wrong, but I read this to mean that the leader had the army baptized, not that they necessarily chose to be baptized...Kind of like someone making it a requirement that you do something...It is possible that the army didn't make the decision to be baptized, and were not Christians, just people following orders...Someone can't make you a Christian by forcing you to be baptized...

[daybreaking]

BTW, when looking for more information about present-day Anabaptist attitudes toward Catholics, I came across a message board with some postings by Mennonites who were familiar with the inner workings of both Christian Light Publications (the publishers of CLE) and R&S. Here are some tidbits that I picked up.

 

1. It seems that there's quite a bit of concern in their community as to whether or not R&S and CLE are of sufficient academic quality to prepare students for college. Ironically, many of the homeschoolers among them said that they don't use these materials. Abeka seemed to be the most popular choice, but there were also some who used Sonlight, MFW, etc. I wonder if this is just a reflection of personal preference, or a "grass is always greener" syndrome -- or if they've had negative experiences with R&S or CLE, maybe during their own school days.

 

2. Starting a few years ago, CLE has been undergoing a complete overhaul; the new Sunrise editions are the result of this. It's clearly a big effort, and I got the impression that they wouldn't have been able to afford it without so many non-Mennonite homeschoolers purchasing their materials. As part of this process, they created LightUnit workbooks for the 3rd grade social studies textbook that I quoted in the other thread, but they apparently didn't see fit to revise the textbook itself. Our copy states that it was written in 1974, revised in 1996, and reprinted in 2010.

 

3. The publishers of R&S are not what we would normally think of as Amish (Old Order). They belong to a group called "Beachy Amish" or "Amish Mennonite." (Here's a historical chart of the various offshoots.) They have access to modern conveniences, and the people who write the curriculum often have college degrees. These are mainly older folks who received their education a few decades ago. Since then, from what I've gathered, their movement has swung toward greater conservatism, and it's now unusual for young people to attend college. (This seems similar to what's taken place in some Orthodox Jewish and Muslim communities.) There's concern for what will happen to the quality of R&S materials after the older folks are gone.

 

Just wanted to put that out there. I guess every group has its own curriculum angst ;), which often reflects broader concerns about the group's values and their interactions with society in general.

 

Would mind giving the link to the message board where you found this information? I'm very interested in researching this in more detail, as I use quite a bit of R&S's materials. Thanks so much.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

I could be wrong, but I read this to mean that the leader had the army baptized, not that they necessarily chose to be baptized...Kind of like someone making it a requirement that you do something...It is possible that the army didn't make the decision to be baptized, and were not Christians, just people following orders...Someone can't make you a Christian by forcing you to be baptized...

Catholics and Orthodox believe that the sacrament of baptism initiates the person into Christianity and that they are Christians. Whether the person lives out a Christian life is up for debate. This is a theological difference between Protestants and Catholics. I understand why she put it in there, because she is Protestant. It is a line I will skip over to prevent planting any false conceptions about our belief in baptism. I don't mind talking to my children about the notion that many of those in that army probably didn't live out a Christian life and relating that to people in our own culture that do the same. I tried to answer this without starting a whole tangent discussion and without offending those that believe differently. This could derail into a host of conversations on once saved always saved, what defines a Christian, etc......

I hope I accomplished that:)

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

I'm tacking on another ? to this thread. I was going to get some R and S grammar workbooks to reinforce FFL. My DS1 is a workbookaholic. After reading this thread I looked at Seton English FYC. I'm not a Seton fan, but it seems as though it would fulfill my need. Is it as good as R and S? Does anyone have input for me on this?

 

Thanks.

[TracyR]

I'm sorry to hear this but I have heard that the science and history has the Mennonite slant. This is why I've never used them.

CLE math didn't work for my oldest so I'm not to heartbroken about that. Problem is their LA did work for my daughter. I've used other grammar programs and they were mastery and the info never sunk in.

 

If Catholic publishers would make more varitey then families wouldn't be forced to chose from Protestant publishers either. Because homeschooling has always been about using what works for our children and not the other way around.

 

The Sunrise version of CLE does definitely prepare students for college.

Let me share a little info about CLE. They orignally began with using Alpha Omega lifepacs. So the old workbooks were originally Alpha Omega life pacs ( like they are today). CLE had gained the rights to copy them , the only differences where A/O lifepacs were colorful, and CLE's were three toned colored ( green, black. red )

It wasn't until recently that CLE has been revising their curriculum. Calling it the Sunrise edition. These definitely prepare children and the level of work is very up to date. Their math, LA and Reading are the best I've ever used and I've used lots of curriculum.

Problem is that not all subjects and not all grade levels are sunrise editions. The reason being is they go by supply and demand. If more people use it, they will change it.

I know up to a certain level the Science and Social Studies are Sunrise. I want to say up to 7th or 8th grade.

 

One suggestion would be to go to the CLE yahoo group and ask why this content is in their books and why won't they change this to be current. There is a CLE rep on the board and if they don't know people's concerns they can't and won't change it.

 

As for Protestant curriuclum I've yet to see one that doesn't bash the Catholic religion in at least their history. Your not getting the full broad of history if religion isn't added in due to the fact many decisions by leaders and people were religiously based. If you go secular you DO NOT get the full picture of history ( sorry but very true). I do not agree at all with faith bashing. Sadly among Mennonite , Protestant groups you get that because they all believe they are right and everyone else is wrong.

 

I'm not sure what I'll do for this upcoming year. Being Catholic as well its important that my children learn their faith. But as we all know we can't sugar coat it either. Sadly throughout history there were sinners throughout the Catholic church, but it goes on both sides of the fence since Protestants have been known for the same throughout history as well.

[Daisy]

I don't use the Mennonite history because it has an anabaptist slant and is pacifist.

 

We only read SOME of their story books because pretty much they are anti-war, anti-shorts, anti-jewelry, anti-technology, anti-motorcycles, anti-Catholic, anti-Reformed.... Well, I could go on and on. We like the farm life and high values but the long list of don'ts grates after a while especially when you want to teach your children to value grace.

 

That said, I love R&S math and English.

 

It is always wise to do research on a publishing companies point of view before purchasing, especially a publishing company that caters to a very specific group of people.

[Tiramisu]

I've been thinking a lot about this thread, thankful for Eleanor's heads up, and about my dependence on CLE math since nothing we've tried has worked for one dd.

 

Anyway, here's what I came up with:

 

When I buy curriclum from a non-Catholic Christian, I know that there is a good chance that things will come up that show different points of view on theology and history and there is a chance that the people behind the curriculum might be promoting anti-Catholicism. At the same time, I can guess that on many moral and social issues I share a lot of ground with them. Without the anti-Catholic element, I would certainly be happy to be able to support them in some way, especially if there is not an equivalent Catholic option. When I buy from a secular company, however, I don't know where they stand on moral issues, who they are voting for, etc.

 

So, what's the right choice?

[rosesinsummer]

I know this is an older thread, but I just wanted to say I recently order Seton's LA for 2nd grade (Spelling 2 (2009), English 2 (2010) and their new Phonics 2 (2011) and I think they are very well done and a great option for those needing or wanting a workbook approach. I'm especially impressed with their systematic phonics book. It's not quite WRTR/Spaulding, but it's a very close second!! LOVE!

[Shelly in IL]

I'm hoping to use that this year. Thanks