Virginia Heather Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 will you please tell me why?? We've been using R & S for a few years now, and while I really like the series, I'm intrigued by the MCT books. That being said, I've made several impulsive decisions in the past (jumping on the latest and greatest bandwagon, for instance, only to regret it later), and I don't want to do that again!! So please... if MCT appealed to you as well but simply didn't cut the mustard, will you please explain why you decided against it?? Thanks~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 part of it was the cost. I just couldn't afford it. My husband was all for it but, wow, that is a lot of money for language arts. Another reason is that my son is very good at grammar and diagramming. He finds it amusing. Weird, I know. I didn't want to change to a different program with a different method. If he was only so-so at diagramming or hadn't told me how much he likes it, that would not have been a consideration. Finally, I cannot figure out how to teach the darn thing. I looked at the samples and it still did not make sense. I joined the yahoo group for MCT users and I saw a couple, one or two, people posting who bought the books and THEY couldn't figure out where the lessons were. That did it for me. If people actually holding the books couldn't figure it out right away then it is not for me. I am willing to put in time teaching and coming up with projects and getting stuff ready. I really am. But I need to understand the approach and methodology of the subject with easy. Now, I agree with my husband that my son would prob enjoy MCT. And I might give it a try in a year or two. But FLL worked very well for us. Mostly, I am waiting for SWB to come out with ALL. I have a few subject that are teacher/student intensive. I just didn't want to add one more. Now with having to take my younger son to three different therapies every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Well, I do use MCT but I have a love/hate relationship with it and probably won't use much of the middle school level. Likes: -The story format -The Caesar's English vocabulary books -Building Poems (probably will skip World of Poetry as it appears to be very repetitive) -The 4 level analysis/parsing technique -MCT's obvious love of the English language Dislikes: -The way he chose to organize the grammar instruction. It absolutely drives me up the wall! It is spread out between the grammar, writing, and practice books and strikes me as very ADD-ish, flitting from topic to topic and then circling back around to the first one. Why, oh why, can't it be logically organized like FLL and Warriner's? -No traditional diagramming in the elementary levels. This isn't a huge issue since I had my DD work through the Mark Twain Media Sentence Diagramming workbook. But it would've been nice for MCT to teach it alongside the 4 level analysis. -Doesn't cover much in the way of punctuation, capitalization, and other mechanics. I have been supplementing with Evan-Moor Daily Paragraph Editing as a way of teaching these things to my DD. -The writing in Paragraph Town is rather open-ended. This hasn't really been a big issue for my student, but YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali in OR Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I use both MCT and R&S. It's not too much for us (at least the way we do it). R&S is great for basic grammar skills--I wouldn't want to drop it. MCT adds a love for the English language and using it well that you don't really find in R&S. I see MCT as more of a writing program for us. Even the poetry and vocabulary are geared toward making you a better writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Heather Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Thank you! Don't you sometimes wish there just weren't so many options??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarrieF Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Thank you! Don't you sometimes wish there just weren't so many options??! YES!!! :001_smile: My son (9 yo) and I absolutely LOVE the creativity and content of MCT, especially Grammar Island and Music of the Hemispheres. We have thoroughly enjoyed them. HOWEVER, (you knew that was coming!) I recently decided to use MCT as a supplement only and return to FLL and WWE as our main LA spines. They are MUCH "easier" to use (lame, I know, but there you have it), laid out much more logically (I think another poster addressed this as well), and actually have TGs with SCHEDULED lessons (a HUGE plus for us busy, homeschooling moms of several kids!). We will continue to read and discuss them because they are beautiful and creative and fun, but they are just not "right" for us to use as spines. Interestingly, I am going to the Memphis convention next week and MCT will be there, so I am anxious to hear him in person and to see if my mind is changed, but I don't think so. :001_smile: It is what it is! And, with the cost of the books being so high, I may not even be able to get the next levels to use just as supplemental material . . . I guess I'll just have to keep an eye out for a good deal on used! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAutumnOak Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I wanted to bring this thread up again to see if the posters above still feel the same way or if anyone else has anything to add... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I like the looks of MCT (great to look at, bells and whistles), but there are two things that prevent me from using it: 1. price 2. we're happy and doing well with Serl's Primary Language Lessons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I bought it and attempted to use it a couple of times, but I couldn't wrap my mind around HOW to use it. Not structured enough for me, I guess. Many people love that about it, though, and I wish my brain worked that way! :D So, I didn't feel comfortable enough using it as a language arts spine as it was way too scattered for my teaching style--too many books to coordinate and no defined lessons. But I also didn't want to just use it as a supplement because I'm trying to streamline (LCC-ish) our school as much as possible. (I don't know if it makes a difference but both my dd and I are language geeks. I have a degree in English with post-bachelor work in linguistics, so it could also be that I don't need something "fun" like MCT to convince me that language is cool! :tongue_smilie: Give me R&S diagramming all day long! :lol:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love2teach0307 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Thanks for bringing this up again. I just got done scheduling Island level for our next school year, and I can't see using it for anything other than a supplement. Obviously, I have not had the pleasure of listening to the author's lectures or seen the results of only using MCT as a spine. We're going to do R&S two days a week for all the punctuation, etc, practice, and after going over the writing exercises, I don't see for the life of me, how my dd would learn to write with all the open-endedness. So I'm considering it a grammar supplement. I'm very curious to see how my dd picks up the poetry elements, because I've been looking at something to get us to dig deeper into poems. So glad I bought that. P.S. I do think it's an awfully expensive supplement for LA. We'll see next spring if the investment is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgrubbs Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Why or why not? For 6th grade with my son we will be using IEW's Fix-it, Phonetic Zoo and Medieval Writing. He has dysgraphia and struggles with anything to do with writing. He has great ideas but he handwriting is poor and it hurts him to write. We have worked on some dysgraphia exercises and things were getting better and end of school year....we will pick this back up with school starts again. I learned to do it but I have never used this - not one time. Now granted I majored in Finance and Economics, got my Certified Financial Planner designation and worked in financial planning. I did use a lot of my writing skills, as we always gave our clients a written financial plan explaining our recommendations in words (as some people don't love/understand tables/charts/graphs) but never really found a use for diagramming sentences. I don't want to add another burden to my son's schedule, particularly one he won't enjoy, especially if there is really no purpose for it..... However, if we could do a short unit study or something on it just to give him experience, I would consider it, especially if someone could recommend a guide for this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 However, if we could do a short unit study or something on it just to give him experience, I would consider it, especially if someone could recommend a guide for this! Two resources I've seen recommended quite a bit for this are: Mary Daly's First Whole Book on Diagramming and more as a teacher resource, I believe CLE's Basics of Diagramming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Well, I conquered my initial reluctance with a different program and we *love* it here! I should add that we have also gotten bored with workbooks and same old, same old, so this is a wonderful change of pace and fireworks! I just open the book and go, but then writing detailed lesson plans is not my thing anyways! The word play in the books is just plain fun and keeps surprising especially my teen boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 We have done Island level thus far. We begin Town (and other resources to deal hard & heavy with paragraph writing) soon. Dds love the story elements with Mud & the gang. Clever approach. Dd8 can't get enough of MCT's humor. It would not work as a stand-alone for me as I love too many other programs and use aspects of them all. Dd8 is doing GWG3 & WWW3 this summer for review & practice. Island does not deal explicitly with mechanics so I need to supplement with Evan-Moor Daily Language & Paragraph Editing. For those who teach mechanics successfully via writing -- I applaud you. We need specific workbook-style practice. I just read my new CC Essentials Of The English Language cover-to-cover. Wow. Now that's grammar. I believe dd will love the sequential nature of parsing sentences. MCT is a delightful addition but I would not use it alone. A thorough grammar/writing education and standardized testing success will be met using a hybrid approach, imho. HTH! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 will you please tell me why?? We've been using R & S for a few years now, and while I really like the series, I'm intrigued by the MCT books. That being said, I've made several impulsive decisions in the past (jumping on the latest and greatest bandwagon, for instance, only to regret it later), and I don't want to do that again!! So please... if MCT appealed to you as well but simply didn't cut the mustard, will you please explain why you decided against it?? Thanks~ I just like Rod and Staff better right now. I didn't want to get used to a new program and it's set up differently than Rod and Staff. I'm also sooo not a "jump on the bandwagon" kind of girl and the fact that so many people seem to be jumping over to MCT makes me want to do the opposite. :tongue_smilie: Also, MCT is designed to work together as a full program. I want to use SWB's writing curriculum and didn't want to have to deal with bits and pieces of a program that's really designed to work in conjunction with the other pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Two resources I've seen recommended quite a bit for this are:Mary Daly's First Whole Book on Diagramming and more as a teacher resource, I believe CLE's Basics of Diagramming Rex Barks is also good. Amazon carries it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I chose not to use MCT because I prefer a more traditional "old school" approach to grammar. I see the chance of having too many gaps with a looser approach. Also, I got turned off a little by the Yahoo group because I saw a couple of glaring errors that were never corrected; it has been so long now, though, that I can't remember exactly what those errors were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I quit MCT because I got tired of debriefing dd after each cringe-inducing grammatical claim (though this isn't a fault unique to MCT; R&S is just as bad IMO). But that's another (lengthy) thread. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I quit MCT because I got tired of debriefing dd after each cringe-inducing grammatical claim (though this isn't a fault unique to MCT; R&S is just as bad IMO). But that's another (lengthy) thread. :) Now I'm curious. :D Could you give examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Judy, You might check out this thread. :) Now I'm curious. :D Could you give examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I sort of wish he would just put his lectures on tape. I love to hear him speak; I love his ideas. I do not love the lay-out of his books at ALL. I have only bought one of his poetry books and I don't love the way the material is presented. It makes it difficult to pick up and use along with other things you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Now I'm curious. :D Could you give examples?I'd better not. ;) Mommahawk gave fair warning there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Judy,You might check out this thread. :) Man, that thread was EPIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 will you please tell me why?? We've been using R & S for a few years now, and while I really like the series, I'm intrigued by the MCT books. That being said, I've made several impulsive decisions in the past (jumping on the latest and greatest bandwagon, for instance, only to regret it later), and I don't want to do that again!! So please... if MCT appealed to you as well but simply didn't cut the mustard, will you please explain why you decided against it?? Thanks~ I used Essay Voyage and AAW this past yr. I have dropped MCT from my options b/c I believe that he teaches incorrectly how to write essays which incorporate long supporting quotes. In my view, one of the main skills which students must learn to master is how to support their positions with the quotes they have selected. In every single MLA example in all 3 books (with the exception of one on pg 4 of AAW level 1 which is more like a cover page and not a teaching example), MCT leaves long quotes unsupported within their paragraph. I do not accept a short introduction followed by a long quote and no follow up argument as appropriate paragraph construction for student academic writing. I can accept the position that if the entire argument is presented prior to the quote that the paragraph can end with the quote, however that is not the situation that I am describing. At the AAW level, the example essays are the teaching material. He also goes to great lengths to explain that papers that contain elementary mistakes do not deserve a passing grade. Failing to adhere to standards in how to write a correct paragraph with topic sentence, supporting argument, supporting quote, and appropriate transitions is failing to meet elementary writing standards from every writing source I have ever used. His essays would not receive a passing grade from me. If you would like to see what I am talking about, he has an example essay viewable online. Note single sentences or brief introductions followed by long quotes and immediate other paragraphs. Paragraph construction matters just as complete thoughts are required for writing to be classified as a sentence. W/o a complete thought, sentences are classified as "incomplete thought." His paragraphs fall into the "incomplete paragraph" category by my grading standards. :tongue_smilie: http://www.rfwp.com/samples/3-pages-one-glance.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Judy,You might check out this thread. :) Thanks! I see I had better plan a day to read that thread! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Cost. I wouldn't start it until next year if I could anyway, but I can't afford it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 However, if we could do a short unit study or something on it just to give him experience, I would consider it, especially if someone could recommend a guide for this! The Mark Twain Media Sentence Diagramming workbook is short, to-the-point, and relatively inexpensive. If your student does a page per day, it would take about a month to finish. It assumes that the student already knows the grammar, so I had my DD do it after she finished Grammar Town/Practice Town/Paragraph Town. I do think there is value in teaching traditional sentence diagramming along side MCT's 4-level analysis. MCT just has the students mark the various parts of speech and phrases but diagramming makes clear the interrelationships between the various words. For example, an adverb can modify the predicate or it can modify an adjective that modifies some noun (subject, direct object, indirect object, object of the infinitive, etc.). MCT has the student label all of these with just "adv." while a diagram has the student place it coming off the word it is modifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularMom Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We used MCT this past year, but I've decided not to continue with it. Yes, the presentation is nice, and yes, my dd liked the story of Mud and all the characters in the stories. But in the end, I don't think I got my money's worth. It's a very expensive curriculum that left me baffled and floundering. And the majority of people I've listened to who use it also supplement it with other curriculums. I just don't have it in my budget to continue working that way. In the spring, we went back to FLL4. My dd prefers the traditional method of diagramming, and I do better with open and go teacher guides. I might, at some point, return to the poetics section of MCT. I like that portion a lot. But we're switching to Hake next year, and I'm looking forward to the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The price deterred me first. Then I looked really closely at it and read reviews here and realized that I probably wouldn't know how to teach it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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