creekland Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Middle son is VERY interested in becoming a doctor and will need to apply to undergrad schools later this fall. I have been reading enough threads to know that doctors come from all types of schools, but I'm still really unsure as to whether middle son will do better at a large school with all the bells and whistles and latest equipment, but with competition from oodles of other students and grad students (examples of Pitt, U of Alabama, and Baylor) or a smaller school with less "stuff" but more personalized attention and still fairly well known for being good in the sciences (examples of Franklin & Marshall or Furman). If you know someone well who is already a doctor or past the undergrad stage and in med school, do they have personal advice for us to mull over? Did they like where they went? Do they wish they had chosen somewhere else due to what they've seen from others? Any thoughts? Incidentally, our examples are based on where middle son might get a bit of aid - on purpose - in order to save for med school. He has the stats to be competitive anywhere. Are there other schools that we maybe should be considering based on good merit aid and good pre-med? We've also been considering Case Western and U of Rochester, but I just don't think their finances will be as good for us. He might still apply anyway. They are "middle of the sizes" schools. We have till fall to be thinking about this, but he's researching schools already and if we get time and $$, I'd like to visit places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 :lurk5: :bigear: ^ That's me and my son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubfan Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 My dh is a physician and went to Michigan State for Internal Medicine/Pediatrics. I believe he would say that medical school was not as significant as where you go on to do your residency. Unless he's going into a super competitive field, he should go to the school that fits him(finances, locale, environment, etc...) The place you do your residency would be the bigger issue, in my opinion.(but if he is going into a super competitive field, then where he goes to school would likely affect his residency match) Most people aren't certain what field of medicine they want to go into entering into med school or change their mind once they start doing rotations in the hospital. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 She was asking about undergrad. Dawn My dh is a physician and went to Michigan State for Internal Medicine/Pediatrics. I believe he would say that medical school was not as significant as where you go on to do your residency. Unless he's going into a super competitive field, he should go to the school that fits him(finances, locale, environment, etc...) The place you do your residency would be the bigger issue, in my opinion.(but if he is going into a super competitive field, then where he goes to school would likely affect his residency match. Most people aren't certain what they what field of medicine entering into med school or change their mind once they start doing rotations in the hospital. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 My dh is a physician and went to Michigan State for Internal Medicine/Pediatrics. I believe he would say that medical school was not as significant as where you go on to do your residency. Unless he's going into a super competitive field, he should go to the school that fits him(finances, locale, environment, etc...) The place you do your residency would be the bigger issue, in my opinion.(but if he is going into a super competitive field, then where he goes to school would likely affect his residency match. Most people aren't certain what they what field of medicine entering into med school or change their mind once they start doing rotations in the hospital. Hope this helps! Actually, we're not even up to med school yet. We're just at the point of finishing homeschooling and going into undergrad. Once he clears that hurdle, then it'll be on to med school if that's what he still wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 :lurk5: :bigear: ^ That's me and my son. Sounds good! Hopefully we'll both get some good personal thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubfan Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Sorry about that, I read it too fast. My advice would be similar though. Their GPA and MCAT scores(test they will take to get into med school) will be big factors for getting into med schools, so again unless he's dead set on a certain field that is highly competitive, go where it works best for him and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Honestly, I think the game has changed tremendously in the past 20 years. My dad is a surgeon, but things were very different 50 years ago when he went to undergrad and med school. Back then, if he got an A on Advance Applied Physics in college, he was able to apply to med school after his Jr. year of college and count his first year of med school as he final year of college AND his first year of med school! He did it! Back then, one also didn't have as much of a choice in med schools, you either got into your own state's med school, paid for private, or didn't go! He really wanted to go to U. Washington in Seattle as his undergrad was in Seattle, but since he was an Oregon resident, he had to go to U. of Oregon, which used to be in Portland back in the day. Are there some online resources you can look into as to which school might be a better option for undergrad? My opinion is that undergrad isn't nearly as imp as med school and a good med school can lead to a quality residency program, but this isn't my area of expertise, and I don't need to look into it anytime in the foreseeable future! :lol: Best wishes to you both! Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 My husband would recommend going where you can do well. For example, Duke may be very rigorous compared to Univ of AL. If you can get better grades at Univ of AL than that would be the better choice. It's also very helpful and can often be your ticket in to med school to do undergrad research. DH did research and the mamn he worked under was so impressed with him, that he fought for him to get into med school. So look at what research opportunities are available at each school. You may want to consider programs that guarantee you a spot in their med school if you get a certain ACT score and keep you GPA above a certain level. UAB has this program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi. My husband did 2 years of medical school before he threw in the towel (we were just absolutely destitute). My brother-in-law and his wife are also doctors. Your son needs lots of volunteer work (that was advice to me in college). My advice - be prepared for how much this is going to cost and the kind of student loan payments he will have at the end. We pay about $950 a month in student loan payments and my BIL/wife pay $2,000 a month in loan payments. And this is for 30 years. :glare: I would concentrate on the financial aspect of this. If he can find a school with scholarships/grants for the undergrad portion...that would help a lot. Also, I think my BIL made a little less than $30,000 a year for the first couple of years after med school, he was still trying to pay his loans and he was living in an apartment with 4 other dudes. Another thing, my husband makes the same amount of money (in a non-medical field) that my BIL and his wife make TOGETHER. So, your son has to make sure this is something he's really in to. And...my BIL says that if you can head out after graduation to an area where there are not a lot of doctors (he used the example of Louisiana), he said you can make a huge amount of money. Sticking closer to the big cities will mean not as much money (according to him - oversaturation). Not sure if that was any help. Your son might get a couple of years into college and decide he wants to be a psychologist or something. :tongue_smilie: I was premed until my sophomore year and I had to do an internship in a zoology lab at the Field in Chicago. I knew from the second I saw the zoologists in Grateful Dead T-shirt with the Wallflowers playing in the background and a boiling whale head in the corner that I had "come to the right place". I switched majors. :D Best of luck to your son in college, tho. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_JWM Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 My good friend is a pediatrician, and she wishes she had majored in English and minored in biology. She says she got all the bio she needed to know to do her job once she started med. school and did her residency. She had a full scholarship to a Catholic university and did well there. It was great not to have any loans, as she ended up with plenty of loans once she finished med. school. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 My good friend is a pediatrician, and she wishes she had majored in English and minored in biology. She says she got all the bio she needed to know to do her job once she started med. school and did her residency. She had a full scholarship to a Catholic university and did well there. It was great not to have any loans, as she ended up with plenty of loans once she finished med. school. Good luck! That's interesting that she wishes she had majored in something different. I think I'll discuss that with junior... Otherwise (and to all), absolutely yes, we've had "the talk" (meaning finances matter, not moral issues). He's likely to go to the best financial offer he gets, but he might just have a choice among those. I'm also wondering about cutting back on application fees, etc, if there's a certain one type people seem to favor over others (not necessarily med schools favoring one type over another, but actual doctors - in their experience). We've also talked about med-reform in general and what it's likely to mean for doctors in the future. He's still gung ho on wanting that route. I don't know if he'll stick with it all the way through. That will be up to him, but he's wanted to do it since third grade and hasn't wavered other than to consider research instead. I'm not going to be the one to tell him he shouldn't follow his heart's desire. I'm just going to help him get there as affordably as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 And...my BIL says that if you can head out after graduation to an area where there are not a lot of doctors (he used the example of Louisiana), he said you can make a huge amount of money. Sticking closer to the big cities will mean not as much money (according to him - oversaturation). This is encouraging. At this point he would PREFER to be more rural than in a larger or even medium sized city. He's not looking forward to going to a city to go to college, but some of those city schools sure seem to have decent schools (like Pitt for instance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeaganS Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Oh man, I could write the book on this stuff. My husband is a first year medical student right now and we've been married since before he decided to go to medical school, so I've been there for the whole thing and it was only in the last 2 or 3 years. In fact, I am the researcher and basically just told him what he needed to do. Here's what I've learned. Like college, test scores and GPA are king for getting into medical school. In fact, the institution, so long as it is accredited and respectable enough doesn't really matter unless you're looking to get into Ivy League medical schools. My husband did excellent on his MCAT and his GPAs were good (they use two different GPAs: Your overall GPA and your science GPA which is composed of science and math classes). Because of this he was asked to interview at over ten different schools. His undergrad institution was respectable but not crazy great, but he had a full scholarship. So as far as which undergrad to attend, I'd recommend for him to attend whichever makes sense financially and for his personality. My husband was accepted to several schools but there were only two that we were considering as viable candidates. One was $40,000/year and the other was a state school that was only $16,000 with likely partial scholarships. After much researching, we decided to go with the less expensive school because again, like high school and undergrad, test scores and GPA are king for getting into good residencies. Now, for what to do to prepare for medical school. I would recommend majoring in something you enjoy. Have an area of expertise outside of science. This makes you much more interesting to the medical schools. So long as you have the prerequisites (about 30 credit hours or so), your classes don't really matter, and if anything, they make you look more well-rounded. Another HUGE thing is research experience. Try to get some research experience if you can at all. Schools love this! Try to get experience in a clinical setting. My husband volunteered at the ER for a few hours every week for over a year. This was great and the interviewers loved to ask him things about it. Volunteerism in all forms is great too. Schools want people who love people, not just want to make money, and this is one way they can see that on an application form. Also, if he can, see if he can shadow physicians. Our university had a program for pre-med students where they paired them off with doctors in the community. This was a great experience and again, the interviewers liked to ask about this as well. As far as the PP poster said about debt, it's the same as any other career. We decided that it wasn't worth the extra $200,000 or so of debt to go to a private medical school. We didn't think we'd make it back investment-wise, so we chose for my husband to go to a state school. We have been incredibly careful with finances, and our current plan has us paying off all our debt by 7 years out of medical school (2 years out of residency). From what we've done and seen, just applying and getting into medical school takes a ton of effort (and about $5,000 for us!) and the path to becoming a doctor never stops being that way. We continually have to be planning for the next major exam (MCAT, Step1, etc. We even planned our daughter's birth around it!) and we continually have to make sure my husband is not only getting all the grades he needs, but that he's doing all the extra stuff (research, preceptorships, volunteering) that he needs to be successful. It's a long, long tiring road, but if it's what he wants to do, it can be worth it. We have a friend at church who has 7 children. Her oldest is 15 years old. Her husband is STILL in his residency because he's doing a highly specialized field. He will be finishing all of his education about when his oldest graduates High School. Our current plan is for my husband to be done with residency when our oldest is 11 years old. To sum up, it doesn't matter where he goes so long as it is somewhere he can do well. Feel free to PM me with any specific questions. ETA: The PP mentioned rural programs. Several states have programs that will give you a full ride to medical school if you give them 3 or 4 years afterward to serve underprivileged areas, such as very rural communities in the state. Usually these programs are only for primary care physicians. Since my husband wants to specialize, we aren't taking advantage of them, but they are available and a great opportunity for those who are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Looks like Meagen's got you covered. My dad, brother and cousin are all docs. They were all at U of Ala. Dad hated it, the kids loved it. Then I think everyone did time in B'ham. Brother ended up doing stuff all over, including Australia for six months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 My sil is an OB/Gyn and she went to a UC school here in California for her undergrad and some school in N. Carolina for med school. She has a very thriving practice because she's an awesome doctor and has great bedside manner. The only reason she's not my doctor is because she's my sil and that would just be.... wierd. But, I meet people all the time who are patients of hers and they just love her. (She has the exact same name as me, she married the oldest brother, I married the youngest brother in the family, so people always comment when they hear my name). I think she's satisfied with her education, even though she didn't go to top schools. SHe's a very competent doctor and enjoys what she does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemMommy Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think the smaller schools. For med school, you need personal letters of recommendation. Yes, the big schools can write a committee letter, but at the small school, the committee is composed of people who taught you and remember you. More lab equipment is nice, but a summer internship on research would expose him to that. Personal attention: priceless. Disclaimer: I teach pre-meds general and organic chemistry at a good, private college and routinely write those letters. I also tutor students from larger universities. Our students are better prepared for the MCAT (think med school ACT exam) than the typical large U student. I know exceptions exist, but I'll still vote for small college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemMommy Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Like college, test scores and GPA are king for getting into medical school. In fact, the institution, so long as it is accredited and respectable enough doesn't really matter unless you're looking to get into Ivy League medical schools. I totally agree with this! I tell me students to aim for the science GPA of 3.5 or higher. Now, for what to do to prepare for medical school. I would recommend majoring in something you enjoy. I've had music majors successfully get into med school. Have an area of expertise outside of science. This makes you much more interesting to the medical schools. So long as you have the prerequisites (about 30 credit hours or so), your classes don't really matter, and if anything, they make you look more well-rounded. Another HUGE thing is research experience. Try to get some research experience if you can at all. Schools love this! Try to get experience in a clinical setting. My husband volunteered at the ER for a few hours every week for over a year. This was great and the interviewers loved to ask him things about it. Definitely volunteer, at even non-medical stuff ,that lets you interact with people of a different social-economic or racial background to show how open you are to people. This can start NOW, in high school. Lots of hospital have shadowing programs for high school students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 My sister is a doctor and she went to a small, private college (where she got a nearly free ride). I think she would say that, assuming you go to a reasonably good college, your grades and MCAT scores matter most about getting into medical school. :iagree: It is best to go where you can flourish -- getting so-so grades, or even really good, but not top grades, at a bigger or more presigious school, will NOT get you into med school. HIS grades/accomplishments/research are MUCH more important than the specific school. And test scores. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giraffe Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Like college, test scores and GPA are king for getting into medical school. In fact, the institution, so long as it is accredited and respectable enough doesn't really matter unless you're looking to get into Ivy League medical schools. I totally agree with this! I tell me students to aim for the science GPA of 3.5 or higher. Now, for what to do to prepare for medical school. I would recommend majoring in something you enjoy. I've had music majors successfully get into med school. Have an area of expertise outside of science. This makes you much more interesting to the medical schools. So long as you have the prerequisites (about 30 credit hours or so), your classes don't really matter, and if anything, they make you look more well-rounded. Another HUGE thing is research experience. Try to get some research experience if you can at all. Schools love this! Try to get experience in a clinical setting. My husband volunteered at the ER for a few hours every week for over a year. This was great and the interviewers loved to ask him things about it. Definitely volunteer, at even non-medical stuff ,that lets you interact with people of a different social-economic or racial background to show how open you are to people. This can start NOW, in high school. Lots of hospital have shadowing programs for high school students. This. All of it. MIL, FIL, some more relatives are all doctors. DH tried to go that route, but volunteered TOO much in college and didn't focus on his GPA, though he rocked the MCAT. His GPA excluded him from med school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks all. I think I am more inclined to think he would do better at a smaller school with the personal attention. Are there others out there (preferably in the eastern half of the US) that are well known for both science and good merit and/or need based aid? Furman and Franklin & Marshall have been on our list from before. While other majors would probably be a good idea, right now, his preference would be to major in microbio or neuroscience, but that could change. Right now he's also thinking he wants to be a family doctor, not a specialist. All of that could change in college, but those were his latest thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Just echoing creekland's thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. My son and I have found it *extremely* helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom23Boys Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Middle son is VERY interested in becoming a doctor and will need to apply to undergrad schools later this fall. I have been reading enough threads to know that doctors come from all types of schools, but I'm still really unsure as to whether middle son will do better at a large school with all the bells and whistles and latest equipment, but with competition from oodles of other students and grad students (examples of Pitt, U of Alabama, and Baylor) or a smaller school with less "stuff" but more personalized attention and still fairly well known for being good in the sciences (examples of Franklin & Marshall or Furman). If you know someone well who is already a doctor or past the undergrad stage and in med school, do they have personal advice for us to mull over? Did they like where they went? Do they wish they had chosen somewhere else due to what they've seen from others? Any thoughts? Incidentally, our examples are based on where middle son might get a bit of aid - on purpose - in order to save for med school. He has the stats to be competitive anywhere. Are there other schools that we maybe should be considering based on good merit aid and good pre-med? We've also been considering Case Western and U of Rochester, but I just don't think their finances will be as good for us. He might still apply anyway. They are "middle of the sizes" schools. We have till fall to be thinking about this, but he's researching schools already and if we get time and $$, I'd like to visit places. My sister is graduating from med school in May/June with her PhD/MD. She just finished interviewing for residency programs. She went to a small, private college and majored in Biology and minored in Chemistry. When she was researching colleges, she asked for % of students being accepted into medical school from their programs and based her decision on a high percentage. She was an excellent student and accepted into many schools. She didn't go to the best one she was admitted to because it wouldn't have been a good fit for her personally One summer during college she took part in a summer program at Baylor. When she graduated college, she worked for 2 years at the NIH. Then she went to University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. We will find out in a few months where she will be going next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 My sister is graduating from med school in May/June with her PhD/MD. She just finished interviewing for residency programs. She went to a small, private college and majored in Biology and minored in Chemistry. When she was researching colleges, she asked for % of students being accepted into medical school from their programs and based her decision on a high percentage. She was an excellent student and accepted into many schools. She didn't go to the best one she was admitted to because it wouldn't have been a good fit for her personally One summer during college she took part in a summer program at Baylor. When she graduated college, she worked for 2 years at the NIH. Then she went to University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. We will find out in a few months where she will be going next. Do you know if she liked her small private college or wished she had gone 100% to Baylor (or somewhere else)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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