A discussion of how Singapore and other high achieving countries/stats apprch SCIENCE

[Halcyon]

I know I've been talking a lot about science lately--sorry if i'm boring anyone!!

 

I read an article today that talked about the NAEP Science results for our 4th, 8th and 12th graders and how very poorly US students did. This yet again got me thinking about how "best" we as homeschoolers can approach science for our children.

 

For one thing, I have been searching unsuccessfully for books that discuss the different ways of teaching science to kids--basically, a book that looks at the different "theories" of how best to teach kids science. I go back and forth on how I want to teach science to my kids, and I realize that one of the reasons I don't know how I wish to teach my children science is because I simply don't have enough information at my disposal.

 

When I went about deciding on a math curriculum for my kids, I read Liping Ma and various other books. When I tried to find a fit for writing, I listened to SWB's audios, and through various sources determined on a 'philosophy' that seemed a fit for my kids and myself. When I decided to incorporate Latin, I read books that helped me determine why this might be a good course of action, what benefits there would be and when might be the best year to introduce it.

 

I realize that I've never read anything similar about teaching science. I've read books that talk about "interest led" and other books that espouse a more classical approach, focusing on one subject for a year. But I have yet to read something that convinces me that one approach is better than another for my kids. And by better I mean an approach that instills a rigorous understanding of scientific theory and facts while at the same time encouraging a lifelong love of science, engineering and discovery. Is an emphasis on facts in the grammar years important (as we as classical homeschoolers would perhaps think) or is it more important to be "open ended", child-led, delight centered, so that our children don't associate science with any of the "drudgery" that might dampen their enthusiasm (although, come to think of it, I don't mind if my students experience a bit of drudgery in math and grammar, so why should science be any different...just musing aloud here...)

 

For those countries that are high performing in science (and by this I mean not only do they do well on tests, but also produce scientists and inventors and engineers, have many college students majoring in science, and many people going into the field as adults), I wonder what their elementary science curriculum looks like?

 

I know that Massachusetts is comparatively high performing in both math and science, yet lags behind Singapore in both. I googled Mass's science standards and found some things: here starting on page 25.

 

Does anyone know what Singapore's elementary science curriculum looks like? Or a book like Liping Ma's but for Science? (Hey, we like their approach to math...we just might like their science too! :) Ok, wait, using the Way Back Time Machine (love that thing) I found two versions of Singapore's standards forr science for elementary: here ....and here fascinating!! The bring to mind Nebel's approach, for some reason!

 

Would LOVE thoughts on this.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

:lurk5:

[chiguirre]

Singapore's science books are available on RR and at Singaporemath. The RR description is detailed and there are some samples:

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1296092959-411239&subject=11&category=2676

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have a set of K - 6 Japanese science student textbooks. They use a spiral approach - doing a bit of biology, physics, chemistry etc. each year at an appropriate level. It isn't until about grade 5 that you see much difference than US science because their math skills at that point allow them to do more. Also - the Japanese textbooks are pretty devoid of text which seems odd until you realize that they get all the information directly taught to them by the teacher. This means that they are not dependent on student reading levels like American kids are who use texts that are often only as complicated as a student can read. Also - because the lessons are more lecture/demonstration oriented instead of read the text, do an experiment, fill in a worksheet, it is more interesting.

[Halcyon]

Singapore's science books are available on RR and at Singaporemath. The RR description is detailed and there are some samples:

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1296092959-411239&subject=11&category=2676

 

 

I've seen these, thanks. I even have Start Up Science for my youngest. They're....fine. I don't see them as special which makes me wonder if there is something missing, some element that Singapore kids are getting that the books don't impart. Perhaps MPAH would be a better choice.

[LittleIzumi]

:lurk5: I LOVE Nebel & plan to keep using that even if the charter school works out, afterschooling it. I haven't seen another science program like it but I'd love to hear about other methods that actually expect kids to *understand* science from day 1 like Nebel and don't dumb it down.

[Halcyon]

:lurk5: I LOVE Nebel & plan to keep using that even if the charter school works out, afterschooling it. I haven't seen another science program like it but I'd love to hear about other methods that actually expect kids to *understand* science from day 1 like Nebel and don't dumb it down.

 

I too like Nebel but to be honest, have found it harder to implement than I expected.

[LittleIzumi]

I too like Nebel but to be honest, have found it harder to implement than I expected.

 

We're pretty new at it but so far, it's been a huge hit. Exactly what I needed for dd, plus an occasional experiment or Bill Nye DVD :tongue_smilie:. Does it get harder as you go?

[AngelBee]

:lurk5:

[Sevilla]

I think a big reason that our science scores lag so far behind is that so many elementary schools do so LITTLE science. I toured our local elementary and when I asked about science curriculum (as that is quite important to DH and myself), I was told that while they have a science curriculum, they alternate science and history units and quite honestly it's not a priority or focus. If that is all students are exposed to (minimal class time spent) then it's no surprise to me that the scores are low - that means they're not getting a strong foundation, and that by the time they get to later middle school and high school only those students who are naturally math/science-oriented pursue excellence in those courses.

 

I think a big issue is the training/expectations of elementary school teachers. By and large, math-y and science-y people do NOT go into elementary ed. I knew many el ed majors who loathed both and did that level fo teaching b/c they loved kids and were more literature focused.

[Halcyon]

We're pretty new at it but so far, it's been a huge hit. Exactly what I needed for dd, plus an occasional experiment or Bill Nye DVD :tongue_smilie:. Does it get harder as you go?

 

No, I don't think so. I just think something about the way it was organized made it difficult for me to follow. I really like it, still have it, still refer to it, but it's not our primary text right now. I want to love it, but somehow, science wasn't getting done when we were using it. Of course, Ii am revisiting it now (downloading his 2nd book as well) so I may just get back into it a bit.

[Wildiris]

Random thoughts:

 

I remember reading that US schools are heavy on Earth science.

 

My Pals Are Here at first glance seems simple, but if you include the activity guide, homework, and Higher Order Thinking Skills books the program rounds out to a solid science program. Just skimming the Mass. standards, it seems the emphasis is on "doing" science and not just reading about it.

 

I own the Nebel book, but I found it too disjointed. Perhaps if I devoted more time to making a plan it would be a great thing, yet time is precious.

 

I am not a science person; however, I am realizing that the gap between gaining background information, questioning, and using that knowledge to try to answer those question is what may be important in developing a scientifically literate homeschool student. I come across many activities which I avoid because they are just that, activities, and do not attempt to answer a question.

[Halcyon]

I am realizing that the gap between gaining background information, questioning, and using that knowledge to try to answer those question is what may be important in developing a scientifically literate homeschool student

 

This is a very interesting thought-thank you for sharing it. I am going to think on this a bit. Did you have a chance to look at the Singapore Standards I linked in the first post?

[Dana]

My Pals Are Here at first glance seems simple, but if you include the activity guide, homework, and Higher Order Thinking Skills books the program rounds out to a solid science program.

 

We also do the tests and I have the Teacher's Guide.

If I just had the MPaH text and activity book, I'd have been really disappointed in the program. The Teacher's Guide gives suggestions for additional experiments, books to add in, and questions to ask. The homework gives a bit more application and practice from the text & activity book. The HOTS is pretty impressive. And then when I give my son the tests, sometimes I wonder if I'd score as high as he does...

 

We also do quite a bit of outside reading on the topic that's covered (right now it's bacteria, germs, viruses... so he just read about MRSA and other superbugs). We'll continue to do more reading and finish up the experiments in the activity book, then he'll do the HW, HOTS, and then the test.

 

It feels like Singapore math does to me... but again... I really think that all the components are needed (and for me, I need the Teachers' Guide and the Tests). I think a lot of the thinking is in the HOTS in the program. The TG gives more of how a classroom might approach the material. That helps a lot too.

[jennynd]

I just went back to Taiwan (where I was born). Taiwan's science was ranked 1 or 3rd in 2008 but dropped quite a bit (I kinda know why but here is not the place to discuss) Anyway, If you look either Taiwan, or Singapore science, They all uses similar approach. There is not a lot text in the textbook. but a lot question and why do u think this happen and what did you observed. The book in general are very very thin. Versus in US, the book is huge, they try to tell kids "everything" without them think why.

 

Now, here does comes the other side of story. I had a science teacher at 3rd grade who "ONLY" teach science. and he has a degree in science and most like in US, you can't find a elementary teacher teaching science who actually has a science degree.

I think those two make big different in turns of science education in this country

[A.J. at J.A.]

My Pals Are Here at first glance seems simple, but if you include the activity guide, homework, and Higher Order Thinking Skills books the program rounds out to a solid science program.

 

:iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I just went back to Taiwan (where I was born). Taiwan's science was ranked 1 or 3rd in 2008 but dropped quite a bit (I kinda know why but here is not the place to discuss) Anyway, If you look either Taiwan, or Singapore science, They all uses similar approach. There is not a lot text in the textbook. but a lot question and why do u think this happen and what did you observed. The book in general are very very thin. Versus in US, the book is huge, they try to tell kids "everything" without them think why.

 

Now, here does comes the other side of story. I had a science teacher at 3rd grade who "ONLY" teach science. and he has a degree in science and most like in US, you can't find a elementary teacher teaching science who actually has a science degree.

I think those two make big different in turns of science education in this country

 

Yes, this is how it is in Japan as well.

[renmew]

Quote:

I come across many activities which I avoid because they are just that, activities, and do not attempt to answer a question.

 

 

 

Actually you hit the nail on the head. My school is in the middle of our science study this year. Part of our work involves reading research form educational publications. We discussed in November an article that said American science classes spent much more time on "activities" that did not deeply explore any scientific concept, let along the ideas the classes were studying at that time. Higher performing countries had fewer, but far more juicy experiments/activities that the students had to really sink their teeth into, concept wise. Also, in higher performing nations, more time was spent in teacher directed lectures where scientific principals were discussed in great detail, with less emphasis on simple memorization of vocabulary.

[GoVanGogh]

I think a big reason that our science scores lag so far behind is that so many elementary schools do so LITTLE science. I toured our local elementary and when I asked about science curriculum (as that is quite important to DH and myself), I was told that while they have a science curriculum, they alternate science and history units and quite honestly it's not a priority or focus. If that is all students are exposed to (minimal class time spent) then it's no surprise to me that the scores are low - that means they're not getting a strong foundation, and that by the time they get to later middle school and high school only those students who are naturally math/science-oriented pursue excellence in those courses.

:iagree:

I live in an urban area of the south and have family that live in the rural midwest. I hear the same thing from friends and family at both geographical extremes -- their children receive very little science education in the elementary years. My sister-in-law and neighbor (school districts 600+ miles apart) both told me their children do no science at all in 3rd grade, as all emphasis is on math and reading for state standardized tests.

Our state's standardized tests are available on-line. I personally think the 5th grade science tests are a total joke. If other states teach/test like this state does, it is little wonder we (as a nation) do so poorly on international exams.

 

 

One book that I really enjoyed is "Encouraging your child's science talent" by Michael Matthews.

[myfunnybunch]

I had a science teacher at 3rd grade who "ONLY" teach science. and he has a degree in science and most like in US, you can't find a elementary teacher teaching science who actually has a science degree.

 

This.

 

This is what makes the difference.

 

If I could make one major change in U.S. elementary schools, it would math and science teachers with degrees in education and math/science to teach math and science at the elementary level. (And a foreign language teacher in each school too, while I'm changing things to suit myself.)

 

Cat

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

:iagree:

I live in an urban area of the south and have family that live in the rural midwest. I hear the same thing from friends and family at both geographical extremes -- their children receive very little science education in the elementary years. My sister-in-law and neighbor (school districts 600+ miles apart) both told me their children do no science at all in 3rd grade, as all emphasis is on math and reading for state standardized tests.

Our state's standardized tests are available on-line. I personally think the 5th grade science tests are a total joke. If other states teach/test like this state does, it is little wonder we (as a nation) do so poorly on international exams.

 

 

One book that I really enjoyed is "Encouraging your child's science talent" by Michael Matthews.

 

Would you be willing to share the state in which you live? I have been searching and searching for a glimpse of current standardized tests. I live in a non-testing state (Indiana) and I can't afford to buy the ITBS or CAT, so I am very curious about what testing looks like these days for ps'ed kids.

 

As far as the time spent on science in elementary: When I was trying to move to the nearest good school district I learned that the third graders only spend 15 minutes per week on science.

[AngelBee]

I just went back to Taiwan (where I was born). Taiwan's science was ranked 1 or 3rd in 2008 but dropped quite a bit (I kinda know why but here is not the place to discuss) Anyway, If you look either Taiwan, or Singapore science, They all uses similar approach. There is not a lot text in the textbook. but a lot question and why do u think this happen and what did you observed. The book in general are very very thin. Versus in US, the book is huge, they try to tell kids "everything" without them think why.

 

 

Something that is really making me think. Thanks. I read a post today about opening the week with the experiment and them going over what happened, why, terms, etc. Really made me think about my approach.

[Halcyon]

Something that is really making me think. Thanks. I read a post today about opening the week with the experiment and them going over what happened, why, terms, etc. Really made me think about my approach.

 

I agree. We do A LOT of talking here (or wait, maybe that's just me ;)) and my son has to be able to discuss what he's learning in science. We both love worksheets and it's been challenging to find exactly what we need in that department. We're using ES Chem rigth now and adding in other subjects on an interest-led basis at the moment.

[phathui5]

I was told that while they have a science curriculum, they alternate science and history units and quite honestly it's not a priority or focus.

 

This is what I remember in elementary school. We alternated semesters of science and social studies.

[prairiebird]

Lack of science in the classrooms at the elementary level was one of the huge reasons I decided to homeschool. My kids' elementary school did science two Friday's a month. They did geography/history rotation the other two Fridays. They were not replaced when Friday was a day off, which happened frequently. I was very upset as I am a science person myself.

 

We used My Pals are Here for about two years and really liked the approach.

[GoVanGogh]

 

Would you be willing to share the state in which you live? I have been searching and searching for a glimpse of current standardized tests. I live in a non-testing state (Indiana) and I can't afford to buy the ITBS or CAT, so I am very curious about what testing looks like these days for ps'ed kids.

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index3.aspx?id=44&menu_id=793

 

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index3.aspx?id=44&menu_id=793

 

Thank you very much!

[Stacia]

I had a science teacher at 3rd grade who "ONLY" teach science. and he has a degree in science and most like in US, you can't find a elementary teacher teaching science who actually has a science degree.

 

:iagree: that this is a big part of the equation, imo.

 

Dh is Belgian & he has said many times that one of the differences between education here in the US vs. in Europe includes the fact that the science (or math or whatever subject) teacher is almost always someone who has an advanced degree in the *subject* they are teaching (vs. having a 'teaching' degree). They are experts in their fields first, 'teachers' second. He said that made some teachers harder to follow as they weren't always the best w/ interpersonal skills or of knowing ways to make things 'fun' or were otherwise lacking in the 'teacher' skills area. However, he says that he, as the student, had to adjust & learn how to keep up (& that was the expected norm).

[Veritaserum]

I don't know that this is best, but my kids do science experiments nearly every day (their choice). Some of the experiments are out of books. Some are part of a kit. I assign a few days where they read certain pages and write what they learned. The experiments they choose may or may not line up with their assigned reading. I give them free reign as long as they clean up the mess.

 

For high school I will have them go through formal biology, chemistry, etc. courses to fill in any holes. For now, child-led in science is working. :)

[Wildiris]

Would you be willing to share the state in which you live? I have been searching and searching for a glimpse of current standardized tests. I live in a non-testing state (Indiana) and I can't afford to buy the ITBS or CAT, so I am very curious about what testing looks like these days for ps'ed kids.

 

CA STAR test release questions 5th grade science & 8th grade science

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

CA STAR test release questions 5th grade science & 8th grade science

 

Thank you!

[Heather in MD]

Just curious - did you buy the teacher's guide? I'm thinking of this program for dd but I don't really have an extra $80 for the teacher's guide. Is it necessary?

 

Thanks!

 

Random thoughts:

 

My Pals Are Here at first glance seems simple, but if you include the activity guide, homework, and Higher Order Thinking Skills books the program rounds out to a solid science program. Just skimming the Mass. standards, it seems the emphasis is on "doing" science and not just reading about it.

 

 

[Halcyon]

I am adding Aha Science and creating Unit Studies based on both the Core Knowledge series and the Singapore standards that I linked in the OP. My boys played with Aha Science today and it really reminded me of K12.com science, which we've done, but a heckuva lot cheaper at $15 for the year.