More FLDS....How do you feel about this?

[Jenstet]

So basically, through generations of inbreeding, a large percentage of children have developed a deficiency that causes severe retardation. The state is paying for the medical care for these kids. The state has also asked them to stop the inbreeding because of the kids and the burden on the state. They say it is God's will.

 

Just another reason why the state has stepped in although it seems there are many more documented cases in Arizona. I don't think they know for sure the real numbers in Texas because they have been so private.

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89979940&ft=1&f=1001

[KIN]

It reminds me of debates I had in my Bio Ethics class I had in college. I can see both sides. Ultimately, I think they have rights, just as you and I do. And, asking them to stop having children b/c it is a burden on the government budget, would set a precedent to others on welfare. "Oh? You can't afford this child? You're required to have an IUD or have your tubes tied after 1 child." That is one option that could happen.

[Miss Marple]

Just shows that government health care isn't the answer. Why should the state be paying for these kids' medical care? Proponents of government health care should realize that the govt is then in the driver's seat when it comes to your lifestyle. Obesity, smoking, even risky behaviors such as skydiving, etc. could become regulated if the govt. pays for your health care.

[TXMomof4]

I heard this report this morning and I had a few questions.

 

If these people want nothing to do with the government, how is the government paying for their healthcare?

 

On the news here they have been reporting that the children taken from Eldorado have never been to medical doctors, so what medical care are we paying for?

 

The segment I heard didn't have anything to back up their info. So while I detest the thought of what these people are doing and the fact that their children are paying for it, that report raised some red flags for me.

 

Also, I wonder if the government steps in and tells people who have a child with cystic fibrosis that they shouldn't have anymore children? Or any other genetic disease for that matter.

 

So much of this is just wrong that there isn't anything right on either side.

[JudoMom]

I heard this report this morning and I had a few questions.

 

If these people want nothing to do with the government, how is the government paying for their healthcare?

 

On the news here they have been reporting that the children taken from Eldorado have never been to medical doctors, so what medical care are we paying for?

 

I haven't heard this particular report, but something I saw with someone who had left said they get a lot of government assistance, and they call it "bleeding the beast".

 

Beyond that, I have no details about what assistance they get.

[chiguirre]

Thanks for the link Jenstet! From what I gather, there are no children with fumarase deficiency in TX. If there were kids who qualified for Medicaid waivers and were either approved or on the waiting list, the state would definitely know it. There are many children with fumarase deficiency in AZ and CO, so those states are picking up the bill. To be fair, they also pick up where insurance leaves off for lots of children with all kinds of catastrophic medical conditions. The only objection I have to these programs is that they don't have enough budget to cover everyone who needs them.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Beyond that, I have no details about what assistance they get.

 

Since all of the mothers are technically single moms, have a ton of kids and are unemployed, they get massive amounts of government aid.

[Julie in Austin]

I'm a little worried about the slippery slope here--do we really want the gov't telling people who should or should not have kids based on their perception of the likely quality of the children's lives? (Sounds like a bad sci fi novel. . . )

[Sara R]

I'm a little suspicious of that report, too. I lived in a community about an hour away from Hildale/Colorado City and read their news in our newspaper, and I never heard of that. I could tell lots of other stories--the prophet told everyone to homeschool only a week before school started (caused a big problem for the school district; had to close down that school in a hurry); I bet there is "welfare fraud" (assuming the women are qualifying as single mothers, which maybe they technically are but not really); I assume the reason why the houses are unfinished is to avoid paying property taxes on finished property. But I never heard of medical conditions from inbreeding. (Speaking of inbreeding, the family's last names were on the signs outside of the houses that the houses were UEP property. There were about 4 last names total.)

 

As far as medical care, the homebirth midwives in town drove out there to help them out, and I would occasionally see them in the maternity section of the hospital (perhaps because of complications). There may have been a small doctor's office in their town because it was a long drive to St. George.

 

I saw them at Costco and Walmart all the time. I remember being surprised that they would take their kids into such a worldly place. One of the articles I read said something about Texas confiscating cell phones. I don't know how isolated they really are if they have cell phones to confiscate.

[Claire]

I just found this newspaper article dated February of 2006. Looks like it is a real problem. Seems to me it must affect the Texas compound too, since most of them came from Colorado City and all of the FLDS families appear to be closely related.

[Chris in VA]

Glad the gov't didn't tell my parents not to have anymore kids after they had my bro, who has CF! I wouldn't be here! lol

[Jenstet]

In the article that Claire linked to it says that people in that community have been know to marry their own nieces and aunts. That close in breeding is what triggers the deficiency. It is just so strange to me. I guess they need to bring a bit of flavor into their community from the outside.

[Claire]

 

Wikipedia has an informative article about fumarase deficiency also.

[Peek a Boo]

I was reading an interesting article in a...Smithsonian? .....magazine about a guy that was treating Amish family disorders. Same kinda thing --limited gene pool. But he was finding all kinds of tests that were saving children and helping them lead a normal life healthwise.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinic_for_Special_Children

[Claire]

Is this the article?

 

I guess the big problem I see with fumarase deficiency is that there is no treatment for it at this time, and therefore no chance for a normal life.

[Kate CA]

TIME has a story about this here: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1732498,00.html

 

It is truly tragic.

[Robin in Tx]

A good friend of mine is a counselor for several small school districts in a part of Illinois that has a lot of Amish. I was surprised to find out that some of the Amish send their kids to public school Some send them to an Amish cottage school, but not all. Anyhow, Amish kids in the public schools is not unusual, and my friend says that they do, indeed, have the same problem. That is why, she says, many of the Amish communities in other parts of the country arrange to basically "trade" marriage aged girls... to mix up the gene pool a little. I don't think the AMish take govt assistance, though (as a matter of fact, I believe they are exempt from social security/medicare taxes because they take care of their members without assistance - I think I have that right).

[battlemaiden]

Since all of the mothers are technically single moms, have a ton of kids and are unemployed, they get massive amounts of government aid.

 

This is what I saw reported on the news as well. I must say it made my jaw drop to hear they filed for government aid as single moms. It just seems so inconsistent.

 

I don't like the extrapolation of government determination in private lives, but this explains why polygamy laws exist in the first place- it's bad for the general welfare. And we I see them skirting the law and using the system it just fumes me.

 

Jo

[Peek a Boo]

Is this the article?

 

I guess the big problem I see with fumarase deficiency is that there is no treatment for it at this time, and therefore no chance for a normal life.

 

yes ma'am :)

 

and yeah-- FD is tough. Hopefully these treatments of other genetic problems will help lead to something for FD too.

[Colleen]

I must say it made my jaw drop to hear they filed for government aid as single moms. It just seems so inconsistent.

 

Yes, it does seem inconsistent, but it doesn't make my jaw drop because it's so common. I know a plethora of people who advocate a drastically reduced government ~ while accepting all manner of assistance from same.

[Lolly]

The reply stated that the Amish are exempted from taxes because they do not use government programs. They take care of their own people. (Don't know if this is true or not.) It made me wonder if the FLDS feel they are only claiming what is rightfully theirs. The government took their money; they are taking it back in a perfectly legal manner. I seriously doubt the option of not paying taxes was ever extended to them. (Just thinkin')

[Claire]

The reply stated that the Amish are exempted from taxes because they do not use government programs. They take care of their own people. (Don't know if this is true or not.) It made me wonder if the FLDS feel they are only claiming what is rightfully theirs. The government took their money; they are taking it back in a perfectly legal manner. I seriously doubt the option of not paying taxes was ever extended to them. (Just thinkin')

 

The Amish do take care of their own people, and don't use Social Security or Medicare. I'm thinking they probably use the religious exemption for paying taxes for these things. I think missionaries can use this exemption, so I'm assuming there is a provision for the Amish. If the FLDS wanted this exemption, I'm thinking they could have gotten it. However, their philosophy is to "bleed the beast", meaning they're fine with taking as much as they can get from the government.

 

Saw on tv where someone had calculated the rates of welfare use. Wish I could find the data online. As I recall, Colorado's overall rate was something like 2% while the FLDS rate in Colorado City was over 30%. I seriously doubt the FLDS are paying in anywhere near as much as they are using.

[Leta]

 

Yes, it does seem inconsistent, but it doesn't make my jaw drop because it's so common. I know a plethora of people who advocate a drastically reduced government ~ while accepting all manner of assistance from same.

 

Yep, I knew a guy like this. He claimed to be a Libertarian, even though he was on SSI. (He got drunk and rolled his car :glare:, which is how he got on SSI in the first place.)

 

Do these women work outside the home? Where I live, in Michigan, in order to get any cash state assistance, single parents MUST work. (Married parents, only one must work.)

 

That usually means getting subsidized day care and putting all your kids- even if you have a dozen, even if you are breastfeeding exclusively- in day care all day, even if you are just working a minimum wage job.

 

I have a hard time picturing these FLDS women in their prairie garb working at a fast food place after dropping their kids off at day care.

 

Unless maybe the moms of older kids work, and the moms of younger kids have the daycares? But that still involves state inspection, to get state subsidies.

 

I dunno, maybe this is why they don't come to Michigan, LOL! Or maybe TX, CO, and AZ need to change their welfare laws so that their states don't have the burden of caring for these enormous families.

 

After all, if the FLDS religion promotes traditional gender roles, then shouldn't the father be providing for his family? Maybe that would cause the men to limit the number of wives they took on, in order to have supportable sized family.

[Sara R]

As I recall, Colorado's overall rate was something like 2% while the FLDS rate in Colorado City was over 30%. I seriously doubt the FLDS are paying in anywhere near as much as they are using.

 

I agree with you--at least for Arizona/Colorado City, assuming you mean Arizona; Colorado City is on the Arizona strip (the land between the Colorado River/Grand Canyon and Utah, difficult to access from "mainland" Arizona) just over the border from Utah (Hildale is the name of the FLDS town on the Utah side).

 

By the way, thanks for all of the sources on fumarase. I stand corrected. :) I'll blame it on the search engine for St. George's newspaper...

[Claire]

I agree with you--at least for Arizona/Colorado City, assuming you mean Arizona; Colorado City is on the Arizona strip (the land between the Colorado River/Grand Canyon and Utah, difficult to access from "mainland" Arizona) just over the border from Utah (Hildale is the name of the FLDS town on the Utah side)..

 

Oops. :001_huh: I just assumed Colorado City was in Colorado. Never made the connection with all the Arizona talk. Always scored really low in geography..... :blushing:

[Scarlett]

Do these women work outside the home? Where I live, in Michigan, in order to get any cash state assistance, single parents MUST work. (Married parents, only one must work.)

 

They probably aren't getting cash assistance. Food stamps, medical care, WIC...that sort of thing. It can add up in a hurry.

[mommaduck]

The Amish are not exempt from paying taxes. They pay sales tax like everyone else. Many do not pay into Social Security though. Those working for others are legally required to, those working for themselves are not. One way around SS and Workers' Compensation is to hire a person on as a business "partner", then they are technically working for themselves, not an employee. This works fine in areas where the community and churches take care of both their own and eachother.