teens heading into adulthood

[Gwen in VA]

This is an interesting article about young adults and coming of age.

 

The statistic that dumbfounded me is

60% of 23-year-olds receive regular financial support from their parents and 40% of 25-year-olds receive not only regular financial support but also regular help with basic household chores

 

The conclusion of the article is that the problem

stems from adults forcing them into roles of passivity and uselessness, just as they are hitting their peak mental and physical capacities.

Helping teens to engage in the world around them is an area that I believe homeschooling excels at!

 

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/oped/2011/jan/05/tdopin02-joseph-and-claudia-allen-a-resolution-to--ar-752540/

[8filltheheart]

I wish I could say that the statistic surprised me, but it doesn't. My older nieces and nephews (and some of them are only 10 yrs younger than me!!) still expect my siblings to pay a lot of their bills and buy their kids clothes, etc.

 

One thing that struck me in the article was the part about the psychology of teen behavior. I have always wondered if my kids were different than most teens b/c I have never experienced a lot of the teen behaviors that are described as normal.......brain-deadness, change in sleep cycles, etc. I have definitely encountered plenty that are completely ABnormal, but none that seem to simply be accepted as part of the teen yrs.

[Jane in NC]

That statistic may be in part due to the fact that many parents assume student loan repayment. I know a number of parents who feel that the cost of education is the parent's burden.

 

After my son's first college visit weekend last fall, I received a call from an admissions officer who complimented him on his ability to talk with adults. She said that it was refreshing when he joined a group from Admissions for lunch, noting that he seemed to feel no discomfort. I was taken aback initially because I have not seen the flip side of this with any of my son's friends--homeschooled or not. But then he seems drawn to kids who are not part of the big cliques--maybe these teens are less comfortable with adults?

 

Joining 8FillTheHeart in wondering about things that some people call "normal",

Jane

[FloridaLisa]

The times they are a-changin'.

 

I was surprised when I heard several politicians and commentators note that the new health care policy of being able to keep kids on the parents' health insurance until they are 26 is very popular. 26?

 

By the time I was 26, I had married, graduated from law school, worked for two years, and had my first child. In fact, dh and I paid for our own student health policies at 20 years old right after we married.

 

Not a fan of the kidult,

Lisa

[creekland]

That was an interesting article. Thanks for sharing! The author's opinion certainly reflects mine 100% as does the maturity (or lack thereof pending which side they are on) of the teens I know.

 

I've never regretted using our boys since they were young in useful jobs around our farm or with their dad in the engineering firm. No, they aren't junior engineers, but they are useful in other ways.

[Brenda in MA]

Helping teens to engage in the world around them is an area that I believe homeschooling excels at!

 

:iagree: Most homeschooled kids I know have no trouble talking with adults. Many other teens that I know from our neighborhood, scout events, and church groups practically shrink away when a adult comes to talk to them.

 

I think it's really sad that these kids are missing out on the interactions with adults that would help them mature and figure out what they want to do with their lives. It's doubly sad that our society seems to accept this behavior as "normal".

 

And who said that homeschooled kids are the ones who aren't socialized.....

Brenda

[FairProspects]

I have to admit that these kinds of discussions frustrate me because they seem like generational warfare.

 

I'm on the younger adult side of parents, and it is common among my friends to receive help from parents. Why? Because we are all lazy and have no desire to use our skills in our prime or provide for ourselves and our families? No, because the basic middle class lifestyle is much more expensive now than it has been for several generations previous to us.

 

Housing costs eat up a larger percentage of our paychecks, as do health insurance and education for our children, even as the total amounts of our incomes are falling. On top of this, we all still have to pay into a system of Medicare and Social Security for the generations before us that we will most certainly not get to experience. Gone are the pensions of our parents, replaced with 401ks with returns that in the last 10 years have actually lost us money, rather than actually helped us save for retirement.

 

Now, I will agree that some of these factors can be mitigated, in that you can choose to move to a cheaper cost of living area, but some such as the amount or percentage that you pay for health insurance, cannot. Nor do you as an individual have much control over the going rate of pay in your career (short of a career shift).

 

The argument can also be made that we as a generation should learn to expect and live with less, and I agree that in many cases that may be possible or even beneficial. However, for many, this is likely to be a lower standard of living than their parents and lower overall as a society than has been experienced in the U.S. for some time. Is this what you want for your children? We can accept it, if you can.

 

However, if parents of their own accord, want to help provide some of these things (housing, education, health care) for their children or their grandchildren that previous generations were blessed to provide for themselves, I don't see the problem! I do not see an attitude of entitlement among my friends so much as an acknowledgment of the difficulty of maintaining a middle class lifestyle in this economic environment.

 

All I can say is that the deck feels stacked against us, and I don't think it is fair to cry foul that needing or accepting help makes us any lazier than previous generations. If anything we think that previous generations have spent our future on themselves on the backs of our labor!

 

So if you all lay off us, then we will all lay off you, and get back to working hard to better ourselves and our futures for our children :D. We are doing the best that we can in some tough times!

 

(Written by a Gen Y'er family with a full-time job and a full-time small business)

[justamouse]

Do kids need more responsibility earlier? yes. A great book on that is by Dr. Robert Epstein

 

http://drrobertepstein.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=29

 

But as far as them being able to support themselves--I can't even comprehend how my kids are going to be able to afford to live out on their own. Perhaps if they make @ 50k--which seems to be the base of being able to sustain a family in my neck of the woods--the base.

 

My nana paid for my ballet lessons, my extra activities, my school clothes, my school books and both of my parents were professionals. And they were very frugal.

 

I think FairProspects post is excellent.

[Sevilla]

I'd like to know more about those stats, because they could be interpreted in different ways. Here are some examples from my and DH's life from our early and mid 20's. We have very close relationships with both sets of parents and hugely appreciate them.

 

The statistic that dumbfounded me is

Quote:60% of 23-year-olds receive regular financial support from their parents

Does a monetary gift at Christmas count as 'regular financial support'? By the time I moved out my parents were making very good money, and at Christmas they would give each of their children a generous check. We put those checks into savings toward buying a car or paying off student loans. When we were newly married and did not have good health coverage, DH needed to see an expensive doctor (as a first year teacher, we didn't make much money). We were advised to ask my parents to help us out with that expense and they gave us a few hundred dollars to cover the initial bills. It was a huge help that we very much appreciated - it allowed him to get treated without going into debt or depleting our savings. We've paid our own medical bills in the years since. I don't consider either of those scenarios terrible or teaching us irresponsibility - but we very well might fit into that stat depending on how they compounded it.

 

40% of 25-year-olds receive not only regular financial support but also regular help with basic household chores

Again, it depends on what is meant by 'basic household chores'. DH's father is very handy and comes over to help DH do tasks like clean out the gutters (he has a large ladder, we don't). If something is broken in our house, we call him first b/c he has the wisdom and experience to advise us about how to handle it. When we bought our hours, my parents and my IL both came over to help us clean it and get it ready to live in. When my mother-in-law comes over to watch the kids, she also cleans my kitchen and runs the dishwasher. I don't ask or expect her to do it, she does it because she loves me and wants to demonstrate that by helping out when she's in our home. It's in the context of relationship and not preventing kids from growing up.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

DH and I have professional jobs, live debt-free, and are responsible members of the community. We 'got it together' at much younger ages than the norm (were married with two kids before the average 'marrying age' in our culture, were established in career paths when most of our friends were drifting in menial jobs, etc...). The help and support we've received from our parents is something I wish everyone could have. It was a hand up that helped us get established, and we see it as give-and-take in that we'll be helping care for them as they grow older (and I would not be surprised if we send our elderly parents money and help them with household chores if they need it).

 

ETA: Allowing a 26 year old to stay on their parents' health insurance can be very important in the following scenario: Preexisting condition + no health coverage offered at their job or university (master's degree/phd program). If you work for a small business, the likelihood that you will be offered health coverage is slim - and if you have a preexisting condition, the option of buying your own coverage is unrealistic. Being able to maintain medical coverage until you're 26 means that you have more time to find a job with benefits. A generation ago, you could find jobs with benefits right out of high school or college. Now? Not so much. That is why many people I know have one spouse working at Starbucks - purely for the medical coverage for their family.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Sevilla

[K-FL]

I have to admit that these kinds of discussions frustrate me because they seem like generational warfare.

 

I'm on the younger adult side of parents, and it is common among my friends to receive help from parents. Why? Because we are all lazy and have no desire to use our skills in our prime or provide for ourselves and our families? No, because the basic middle class lifestyle is much more expensive now than it has been for several generations previous to us.

 

 

 

As someone old enough to be your mother (b. 1961), it was much cheaper for my parents to raise a family in the '60s-'70s than it has been for us in the '90s+

 

Here's a site that gives $ info for different decades.

 

So while I don't think the Gen-Yers a all lazy, I do think they may have expectations to be at the material level of 40 yr olds while still in their 20s. And their baby boomer parents are willing to help them.

[FairProspects]

As someone old enough to be your mother (b. 1961), it was much cheaper for my parents to raise a family in the '60s-'70s than it has been for us in the '90s+

 

Here's a site that gives $ info for different decades.

 

So while I don't think the Gen-Yers a all lazy, I do think they may have expectations to be at the material level of 40 yr olds while still in their 20s. And their baby boomer parents are willing to help them.

 

While I agree there may be a a problem with some Gen Y'ers expecting too much too soon, as I addressed in my original response, I disagree that it is the main reason many of us are asking for or accepting help from our parents. I think the root cause is the macroeconomics of falling real wages, and increased fixed expenses of health care, housing and education which seriously limit disposable income available for savings, emergencies or any extras like lessons for the kids. (I am referring to "real wages" and what your money will actually buy rather than price costs for each era - meaning that while prices were cheaper in the 60s, the percentage of income spent on the same size house now would be higher.)

 

Obviously the economy is a complex problem for multiple generations, and I don't think there are any easy fixes, but I'm willing to give up some of my expectations of lifestyle if I can stop hearing the stereotypes that it is entitlement that is causing all of my generation's economic woes! There are many factors at work here, some of which are macroeconomic trends beyond our control!

[Nan in Mass]

I received regular financial and chore help when I was 25. My parents paid my school loan and I was sick in bed, pregnant and my parents came and took care of me. After I had babies, I went to my mother's once a week. I did laundry there and she watched my children while I took a nap. My husband came after work and she fed us all dinner. I still go to my parents' once a week and they feed us dinner, but we help with the chores, both the indoor and the outdoor ones. My parents' "reward" for having their grandchildren at their house (usually along with me) a few times a week is older grandchildren (teens and twenties) who willing spend their weekend helping Grampa repair something or even vacuum.

 

I know quite a few 23 year olds who receive regular financial and chore help from their parents (including my own). Some of them were independent at 19 but delayed college (mine did this). Now that they are in college, they have gone back to needing help, despite having part-time jobs. Some lived independently in other countries, even. And others are not in college but living at home, working. In that situation, even though some of them pay house money, they still would have to fill out that question as "receiving regular financial and chore help". My 23yo falls into this catagory but definately isn't a case of failure to launch or failure to be independent. Quite the opposite - it took us three years to convince him to depend on us and go to college. Sigh.

 

I would be suspicious about that statistic unless I knew exactly how the original data were gathered because I suspect that it represents mutual aid/extended family situations (very common around here) as one way streets, with the aid only going one direction, from parent to child, not both ways.

 

But as I said, I haven't read the article, so maybe I am misunderstanding.

 

-Nan

[choirfarm]

Well, my dh was going to medical school from ages 21-25 and had no income so I can see that. We lived off of my first year teacher's salary my first year and had to take a small loan to pay for insurance. It just didn't work. Thankfully his dad paid all of medical school tutition as he had saved it.

The times they are a-changin'.

 

I was surprised when I heard several politicians and commentators note that the new health care policy of being able to keep kids on the parents' health insurance until they are 26 is very popular. 26?

 

By the time I was 26, I had married, graduated from law school, worked for two years, and had my first child. In fact, dh and I paid for our own student health policies at 20 years old right after we married.

 

Not a fan of the kidult,

Lisa

[regentrude]

I am not surprised about the financial support, I can see many scenarios where this might happen (OTOH I also see many young people expecting a high standard of living, much higher than when I was young.)

 

What really boggles my mind is the chore help! Those 40% of 25 y/o can not possibly all be pregnant women, mothers of newborns, people with severe health conditions. In that number there must be plenty of able bodied young men who get mom to wash and iron their shirts.

[MBM]

A little off tangent here, but I find it interesting that in my area quite a few households have three generations living together. The elderly grandparents are very involved in taking care of the grandchildren and help out with chores. This allows both the mother and father to go to work easily. It's an interesting arrangement, and if I got along well in that situation, I wouldn't mind doing it myself.

 

You won't find me doing my adult kids' chores or supporting them financially once they've left my house, though! I like to remind them that they are supposed to be lavishing on me. :D (j/k)

[mcconnellboys]

I sure do hope so! Thanks for the article....

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Prospects weren't so hot for the young adults of the Great Depression. They didn't expect their parents to pay their bills or do their chores for them, though. American pioneers didn't have a very cushy life, but felt that it was their lot to join adults in the attitude of taking responsibility for their futures. Immigrants of all times don't suffer from entitlement issues. (historically)

 

I won't be a bit surprised if my children and their spouses and children live with us for a time. (I think we haven't hit the bottom of the recession yet, no matter what the media says.)

 

If they do, there will be some tasks shared, of course, but a recognition of personal boundaries and responsibilities. I would not be ashamed of my son if my converted garage is his home. I would be ashamed of him if he were not fully a responsible adult, and needed me to arrange his life and wash his socks because he doesn't know how. I would be ashamed if he did not do his share to contribute to the household, and I wouldn't allow him to stay if he didn't.

 

Generations working together for survival is not the same thing as seeing all the young people of an era cry 'foul' as they maintain a childish dependency on their parents into adulthood.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Dulcimeramy

[Nan in Mass]

No, they can't all be pregnant, but there might be a fair number who still live at home, in which case, inevitabley, a parent will be doing some of their chores and they will be doing some of their parents' chores. I know a number of self-supporting adults who have a parent (or sibling) doing child care for them. That probably comes under the heading of both financial and chore help. They may have reasons beyond financial for doing this, like wanting their children to be minded inside the family rather than outside.

-Nan

[Jane in NC]

A little off tangent here, but I find it interesting that in my area quite a few households have three generations living together. The elderly grandparents are very involved in taking care of the grandchildren and help out with chores. This allows both the mother and father to go to work easily. It's an interesting arrangement, and if I got along well in that situation, I wouldn't mind doing it myself.

 

I think that this has the potential to be a lovely arrangement! It certainly was the norm when the US was an agrarian society. I wonder when there was a cultural shift to independence over interdependence on family? Anyone know? Perhaps certain immigrant groups have maintained the interdependence. Or is that an oversimplification?

[Nan in Mass]

Yes, but what if they were living close-by? I live in an extended family situation where each individual family has their own house once they are married (usually, anyway), but we still operate in a pretty cooperative way. Just warning you that there is a half-way situation that is actually very, very nice, the best of both worlds, but would create a situation where chore and/or financial help is a more natural situation than it seems.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

When did nursing homes become common? That might have had something to do with the switch. I know my grandparents, who took care of their own parents, were determined not to do that to their children. People might have reacted to WW2, also, and the alternative living situations that forced on people. When did it become common for people to go to work for a company out of their home town? Did easy access to education have something to do with it, letting people learn to do something for which there were no jobs near home? It is an interesting question.

-Nan

[lllll]

..

[AnitaMcC]

I am seeing much more of "entitlement" attitude in younger people these days. It isn't about parents helping out their adult children if they are able.. but that the adult children feel it is their right to demand, expect, and take from their parents even though the parents could be struggling.

 

It is one thing for an adult child of 25 yrs old living at home to save money or because rent is just too much on their income, while paying all the other expenses of their own lives. Meaning they pay their cost of living: food, laundry, own clothes, cell phone, car, car insurance, gas, internet, cable, entertainment, etc. It is the attitude of that the adult child: he/she knows that their lives are now their own responsibility and they need to be an adult and take on that responsibility.. not act like a 10 yr old.

 

I have a 30yr old nephew living with us. He pays "rent". It is enough to cover his expenses that it costs us for him to live with us (utilities and food). He is not expected to do chores (only clean up after himself). He helps out when he can as a member of the family. He does his own laundry, pays for his own car, car insurance, cell phone, gas, entertainmnet expenses, credit cards, health insurance, etc. He works to earn what he needs to live on.

 

I also have a 21 yr old nephew living with us also. He has that "entitlement" attitude and it is severely damaging our relationship with him. He lives in our home, increases utitlity bills, increases food bill, and he does nothing. He does no chores and he refuses to get a job... makes all the excuses up in the world he can think of to not do anything. We haven't booted him out only because he literally has no where to go and we really don't want to leave him homeless as well as jobless. But he did it to himself. He had all the options and more to make a life for himself (he could have had a free college education but he blew it because he didn't want to do it and flunked out). He didn't/doesn't want to work. He has been fired from every job he has ever had... or he quit because it got to be an inconvenience. He wants everything handed to him and he thinks that is his right. But sooner than later he is going to have to sink or swim...

 

It just is ridiculous IMO for parents to support their adult children.

Yes jobs are hard to come by... but that is no excuse for an entitlement attitude!!!! An adult child should do their best to live their lives and support themselves. When life throws a curve ball, then deal with it.. if they need help from mom/dad, hopefully that it is only temporary and do everything they can to get back on their own feet.

[AnitaMcC]

I received regular financial and chore help when I was 25. My parents paid my school loan and I was sick in bed, pregnant and my parents came and took care of me. After I had babies, I went to my mother's once a week. I did laundry there and she watched my children while I took a nap. My husband came after work and she fed us all dinner. I still go to my parents' once a week and they feed us dinner, but we help with the chores, both the indoor and the outdoor ones. My parents' "reward" for having their grandchildren at their house (usually along with me) a few times a week is older grandchildren (teens and twenties) who willing spend their weekend helping Grampa repair something or even vacuum.

 

I know quite a few 23 year olds who receive regular financial and chore help from their parents (including my own). Some of them were independent at 19 but delayed college (mine did this). Now that they are in college, they have gone back to needing help, despite having part-time jobs. Some lived independently in other countries, even. And others are not in college but living at home, working. In that situation, even though some of them pay house money, they still would have to fill out that question as "receiving regular financial and chore help". My 23yo falls into this catagory but definately isn't a case of failure to launch or failure to be independent. Quite the opposite - it took us three years to convince him to depend on us and go to college. Sigh.

 

I would be suspicious about that statistic unless I knew exactly how the original data were gathered because I suspect that it represents mutual aid/extended family situations (very common around here) as one way streets, with the aid only going one direction, from parent to child, not both ways.

 

But as I said, I haven't read the article, so maybe I am misunderstanding.

 

-Nan

 

See to me.. this isn't adult chidlren being supported by parents. This is family being a family. When one or the other needs help.... others step in to help. And it is a cycle... the older helps the youngers and then the youngers help the olders in later years. It is when a person is always needing and getting help... even when they really don't need it. It is the entitlement factor I think that is what counts. Did you expect and demand that your parents help you out??? Or did you need help and they were able and willing to help? That is where it matters. And if a parent wants to support their adult children.. that is a parent's right. But I would hope that the parent does not complain about 30 yr old darling needind and demanding $$ for food, when that darling just spend $500 on designer clothes or video games.

 

I think what is going on is that people are not seeing or being told the whole picture. I have one adult nephew who lives with us... but he is not supported financially by us. I have another adult nephew who lives with us but is supprted financially by us.

 

I feel that the situation with nephew #1 as normal family relationship. It is silly for him to live on his own just because he is an adult. Why pay $1000 a month to rent an apartment when it is just him? He can save that money and put it away for when he "should" go out on his own. He still is financially responsible for himself. But his brother is another story. But hopefully he will figure it out... hopefully before he burns all his bridges to his family and friends and before he ruins his life. He already can't go into the Navy's nuclear engineering program that he "really" wants to do.. because of some choices he has made. Now he has to go with a different job in the Navy and it isn't exactly what he wants. But we shall see... he is on delayed entry program and we hope he doesn't make poor choices between now and July that will close this option for him.

[Murphy101]

The times they are a-changin'.

 

I was surprised when I heard several politicians and commentators note that the new health care policy of being able to keep kids on the parents' health insurance until they are 26 is very popular. 26?

 

By the time I was 26, I had married, graduated from law school, worked for two years, and had my first child. In fact, dh and I paid for our own student health policies at 20 years old right after we married.

 

Not a fan of the kidult,

Lisa

 

I know. By 26, I had been married for 7 years and had 4 kids.

 

I'm not a fan of the kidult either.

 

If my kid were on my insurance at 26, I would be expecting him to pay his portion of the additional cost to us.

 

As someone old enough to be your mother (b. 1961),

So while I don't think the Gen-Yers a all lazy, I do think they may have expectations to be at the material level of 40 yr olds while still in their 20s. And their baby boomer parents are willing to help them.

 

Well I am 38 and agree with you. You don't "get" a middle class lifestyle. You earn it and you save for it. People expect to automaticly have a middle class lifestyle in their 20s or even 30s. Further, I think what many people think is a middle class lifestyle, previous generations would have thought very lavish.

 

Prospects weren't so hot for the young adults of the Great Depression. They didn't expect their parents to pay their bills or do their chores for them, though. American pioneers didn't have a very cushy life, but felt that it was their lot to join adults in the attitude of taking

responsibility for their futures. Immigrants of all times don't suffer from entitlement issues. (historically)

 

I won't be a bit surprised if my children and their spouses and children live with us for a time. (I think we haven't hit the bottom of the recession yet, no matter what the media says.)

 

If they do, there will be some tasks shared, of course, but a recognition of personal boundaries and responsibilities. I would not be ashamed of my son if my converted garage is his home. I would be ashamed of him if he were not fully a responsible adult, and needed me to arrange his life and wash his socks because he doesn't know how. I would be ashamed if he did not do his share to contribute to the household, and I wouldn't allow him to stay if he didn't.

 

Generations working together for survival is not the same thing as seeing all the young people of an era cry 'foul' as they maintain a childish dependency on their parents into adulthood.

 

I agree.