Ethiopian-Eritrean Conflict

[Aubrey]

I'm reading an '01 Cultures of the World book on Eritrea, which states that the border conflict between Eritrea & Ethiopia "persists to this day."

 

So I read updates here & there online, & I see that the UN has...sort-of...resolved the issue, but it's still tense (as of 08 or 09--still not completely current info).

 

Other things came up in that search, though. Something about a genocidal leader in Eritrea attempting a genocidal "cleansing" of the Afar people? But many of the Afar are living in Ethiopia as refugees, which, given the border conflict, is hard to imagine.

 

And then I read about Egypt trying to stir up dissidents in Ethiopia in order to distract attention & $ from Nile river projects in Ethiopia.

 

Is it possible to get the 10yo kid summary of what's going on here? Here's what I *think* I understand so far:

 

Eritrea got lumped in w/ Ethiopia at some point due to bad information at the UN, fought for its independence, won it, had some peace, & then the border conflict w/ Ethiopia began. During that time, I'd guess that the desire of the Eritreans to be independent was reasonable, & Ethiopia was the aggressor.

 

At some point, though, Eritrea gained enough power to revive an old race issue between internal groups, the Afar & ??? When a despot came to power, things got really bad. The Ethiopians offered refuge to the Afar because it aggravated the Eritreans. This does not make the Eritreans "bad" & the Ethiopians "good" or vice versa--it's just political maneuvering at the top for which the guys on the bottom are all dying, same as most countries seem to do.

 

Is this accurate? I can't tell a) who the current leader of Eritrea is or b) how many leaders they've had since achieving independence from Ethiopia, & I'm getting my dates pretty mixed up. I know 1993 is important, but I can't remember why. [ETA: '93 is the date of independence.] 1998-2000 are the dates of the recent border conflict, which may resurface.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Aubrey

[LG Gone Wild]

"Two bald men fighting over a comb" is how it was described to me. I have no idea either.

[stripe]

I know 1993 is important, but I can't remember why.

Per the CIA's World Factbook, they have a "transitional government"

 

following a successful referendum on independence for the Autonomous Region of Eritrea on 23-25 April 1993, a National Assembly, composed entirely of the People's Front for Democracy and Justice or PFDJ, was established as a transitional legislature; a Constitutional Commission was also established to draft a constitution; ISAIAS Afworki was elected president by the transitional legislature; the constitution, ratified in May 1997, did not enter into effect, pending parliamentary and presidential elections; parliamentary elections were scheduled in December 2001 but were postponed indefinitely; currently the sole legal party is the People's Front for Democracy and Justice (PFDJ)

 

It also says

chief of state: President ISAIAS Afworki (since 8 June 1993)

elections: president elected by the National Assembly for a five-year term (eligible for a second term); the most recent and only election held on 8 June 1993 (next election date uncertain as the National Assembly did not hold a presidential election in December 2001 as anticipated)

 

Some other short summaries:

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ad18

and

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0858026.html

[mommaduck]

We have a group of Eritreans (Ethiopian Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox) that meet at our church. I could ask them (of course that would probably only be getting one side of things). I thought things had calmed down over there.

[Aubrey]

We have a group of Eritreans (Ethiopian Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox) that meet at our church. I could ask them (of course that would probably only be getting one side of things). I thought things had calmed down over there.

 

Maybe they have--I'm reading a book that's nearly 10yrs old.

 

It says here, though, that "the Ethiopian Orthodox Church discourages reading the Bible...." Do you know if that's true, & if so, why? Just curious.

[mommaduck]

Maybe they have--I'm reading a book that's nearly 10yrs old.

 

It says here, though, that "the Ethiopian Orthodox Church discourages reading the Bible...." Do you know if that's true, & if so, why? Just curious.

I don't believe that one bit. I'm friends with one of the Eritreans and they carry their Bibles with them and I don't believe it's just for looks. Their faith means much to them. I've heard this same accusation against other Orthodox as well and it's NOT true. These are the same assumptions that are made against Catholics and I know many that know their Bible backwards and forwards.

[Aubrey]

I don't believe that one bit. I'm friends with one of the Eritreans and they carry their Bibles with them and I don't believe it's just for looks. Their faith means much to them. I've heard this same accusation against other Orthodox as well and it's NOT true. These are the same assumptions that are made against Catholics and I know many that know their Bible backwards and forwards.

 

I could see one religious group saying this about another, but coming from a non-religious book about the culture, I found it odd & thought maybe there was some basis to the statement. Not that I automatically believed it, just that I couldn't see the motivation to make such a statement (if untrue), other than religious division, & that seems silly w/ a "cultures of the world" type series.

 

Anyway, thanks for the information. :001_smile: It's amazing how many more pov's there are than just 2!

[mommaduck]

:001_smile: It's amazing how many more pov's there are than just 2!

Yes, it is. I always tell my kids that there are AT LEAST three sides to everything. I'll ask my friend about this anyhow (the bible part at least...she may know the background to it a bit better ;) )

[Spy Car]

In 1936 the Italian army under their fascist leader Benito Mussolini invaded Ethiopia from their neighboring colony of Eritrea. The Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie went to the League of Nations to plead for help. He got none, but he captured the world's imagination with his heart-felt appeal.

 

The speech BTW was used as a basis for the Bob Marley song "War". Rastafarians revered Selassie, who they felt was an incarnation of Jah (God) and they called him Ras Tafari. Haile Selassie himself (why denying any divine claims) believed he was the direct ancestor of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.

Ethiopia, without western aid, was over run by Italy. The 5 or 6 years Ethiopia was under the control of Italy was the only time Ethiopia was ever colonized. The lack of response of the western powers to Italian aggression is seen in hind-sight as one of the failures in standing up to fascism that lead to WWII.

 

Too many digressions? :D

 

When the British liberated Ethiopia the Eritrean provinces were put under Ethiopian protection under a "restored" Haile Selassie. The Emperor's high standing in the world community made his control of Eritrea palatable to the Western powers (if not the Eritreans) and the fact that Ethiopia was (and is) a largely Christian state, where Eritrea is largely Muslim, was no doubt a factor in the geo-politics. For Ethiopia the Eritrean territory was vital, as it sits along the Red Sea and without it Ethiopian is "land-locked."

 

In 1952 Ethiopian "annexed" Eritrea. In a bid to ensure Eritrea remained permanently "Ethiopian" the government began to suppress the Tigre language of the native Eritreans and began to impose Amharic (the dominance language of the Ethiopian elite). Both languages are related to one another, and both are ancient Semitic language that are also related to Hebrew and Arabic.

 

The Eritreans, quite naturally, were unhappy. A "national liberation" movement began in the 1960s, and Haile Selassie's image in the West began to dim somewhat, but he was still "our guy." Then, in 1974, Selassie was overthrown by a Marxist coup.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

Oops hit submit accidentally...more to follow later.

[FaithManor]

Spycar,

 

Love your digressions!

 

Faith

[Aubrey]

The Emperor's high standing in the world community made his control of Eritrea palatable to the Western powers (if not the Eritreans) and the fact that Ethiopia was (and is) a largely Christian state, where Eritrea is largely Muslim, was no doubt a factor in the geo-politics.

 

Ok, you said a lot, but I just happened to be on the p about religion when you posted, so I just read the book's summary of Eritrea's religions: almost evenly split between Christianity & Islam.

 

Maybe that's a result of the Ethiopian/world influence over Eritrea in the last 50 yrs? Maybe it's an oversimplification because it's a kid book on geography? :lol:

 

(I checked out over 50 books on different African nations last night &, afraid that the librarians would view this as gluttony, I griped at dh all the way to the check out--as he carried half the stack of books--that if I want to be a glutton about African geography, by golly, I should have that right. He just grinned & offered to check them out for me while I hid in the car. In the end, though, all the librarian said was, "Would you like a bag?")

[HollyB]

It is my understanding that the 1998 conflict was primarily over the border town of Badme. It seems that neither side was sure to whom it belonged, even when Eritrea was just another region of Ethiopia. The trouble began when Eritrea was declared in independant state, and they now fight over this little town. I was in Ethiopia in 1999, but I was told to never ask anyone any questions about it because you never knew who to trust (plus I don't speak Amharic.). Scary place at the time.

[freethinkermama]

In 1936 the Italian army under their fascist leader Benito Mussolini invaded Ethiopia from their neighboring colony of Eritrea. The Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie went to the League of Nations to plead for help. He got none, but he captured the world's imagination with his heart-felt appeal.

 

The speech BTW was used as a basis for the Bob Marley song "War". Rastafarians revered Selassie, who they felt was an incarnation of Jah (God) and they called him Ras Tafari. Haile Selassie himself (why denying any divine claims) believed he was the direct ancestor of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.

Ethiopia, without western aid, was over run by Italy. The 5 or 6 years Ethiopia was under the control of Italy was the only time Ethiopia was ever colonized. The lack of response of the western powers to Italian aggression is seen in hind-sight as one of the failures in standing up to fascism that lead to WWII.

 

Too many digressions? :D

 

When the British liberated Ethiopia the Eritrean provinces were put under Ethiopian protection under a "restored" Haile Selassie. The Emperor's high standing in the world community made his control of Eritrea palatable to the Western powers (if not the Eritreans) and the fact that Ethiopia was (and is) a largely Christian state, where Eritrea is largely Muslim, was no doubt a factor in the geo-politics. For Ethiopia the Eritrean territory was vital, as it sits along the Red Sea and without it Ethiopian is "land-locked."

 

In 1952 Ethiopian "annexed" Eritrea. In a bid to ensure Eritrea remained permanently "Ethiopian" the government began to suppress the Tigre language of the native Eritreans and began to impose Amharic (the dominance language of the Ethiopian elite). Both languages are related to one another, and both are ancient Semitic language that are also related to Hebrew and Arabic.

 

The Eritreans, quite naturally, were unhappy. A "national liberation" movement began in the 1960s, and Haile Selassie's image in the West began to dim somewhat, but he was still "our guy." Then, in 1974, Selassie was overthrown by a Marxist coup.

 

 

You need to write Story of the World--SpyCar style. I'd buy 'em all.

[Spy Car]

Ok, you said a lot, but I just happened to be on the p about religion when you posted, so I just read the book's summary of Eritrea's religions: almost evenly split between Christianity & Islam.

 

I should not have said "largely." Eritrea "feels" more Muslim from an outsider perspective because the population in the coastal areas skews Muslim, while the more remote high-interiors are more Christian. But you are correct, the over-all population is almost evenly split as your source suggests. It's just the Islamized section of the population is in the places most accessible to visitors.

 

Bill (who did not even get to proof read that thing due to iPad interface error on my part)

[Spy Car]

So in 1974 Haile Selassie is overthrown. I was in shock. I don't personally believe in man-gods, but still Selassie was a giant! Actually he was a very very short giant. Maybe a poor choice of words because the Emperor was quite tiny, but he was aristocratic and a person who inspired a certain sense of awe.

 

But he was gone. Swept from power by a motley crew of of Marxist rebels led by a thuggish dictator-to-be named Mengistu Haile Mariam. This changed things. The personal prestige of Salassie (although diminished in his later years) had largely shielded Ethopia politically in the West (although criticism was building).

 

Plus the Eritrean rebels were "leftists" and this put the Eritreans on the opposite side of US interests at a time when the US-Soviet superpower

relationship led to a great number of "local" conflicts be expanded into proxy

wars (of sorts) for the US and Soviet Union. As proxy-wars go, this one never erupted enough draw in US forces. But there was meddling on both sides.

 

But when Marxists came to power in Ethopia, that Cold War advantage largely vanished. More and more the Eritreans started winning the public relations war,especially in Europe (and especially on the left) where they became a "cause celebre". And Ethiopia turned to Moscow.

 

I would assume (put can't prove) that the Eritreans got arms from the Saudis, Yemen, Libya, Syria and Egypt. Egypt was especially prone to meddling. Eritrea was in their "sphere of influence" and there was a long running competition between themselves and Ethiopia over which was the greatest African civilization.Both think of themselves deserving the place of honor, and this spills into their relations to this day.

 

The Soviet backed regime in Ethiopia was a disaster. Mengistu used terror tactics on the population. Political murders were commonplace, lands were seized. All the crimes one might imagine could be committed, were. Hunger was used first as a weapon to punish opponents, but beginning in the early 80's mass famines broke out. Some of you may remember the images of starving Ethiopians. Live Aid. Millions of people starved, and it is believed that a million people died. It was a horror.

 

I remember in 1983 I was working late with some colleagues and I invited one of then to join the rest of us who were going out to dinner at a little restaurant I'd discovered. She asked me, "what kind of food are you having?" I said "Ethiopian." Which was true, but she just glared at me like I had made the worst joke in the world. After a little good food and a lot of Tej (a fermented honey mead flavored with a hop-like herb called gesho) she apologized, still I got the irony of having Ethiopian food in the comfort of Los Angeles while millions starved. Again, I digress.

 

The unraveling of Ethiopia, its disfunction, and its growing political isolation left an opening for the Eritreans. There had always been factions on the Eritrean side that weakened them, but now they began to make common cause--now that they had a real chance of victory.

 

Then came the "collapse of communism." Ethiopian dictator Mengistu suddenly lost his patron state. Soviet arms shipments and money dried up. And the Ethiopians had already begun taking losses. The tide turned. And anti-Mengistu forces with-in Ethiopia itself took up arms against the government. Still, Mengistu had the remnants of a real army. The rebels were just that. They were out gunned, and out numbered. But they had heart.

 

The war turned ugly as the 80s closed and the 90s began. In 1991 the Ethiopians collapsed. They had vastly superior numbers, aircraft, tanks, while their enemy mostly had AK-47s and light weapons. Mengistu fled.

 

There was a shaky peace deal put in place, with the US agreeing to help support both sides if they ceased active hostilities. In 1993 the Eritreans held a plebiscite and voted with near unanimity for independence that year.

 

Nothing was fully settled, however, and new hostilities broke out 5 years later. And the Eritreans took the worst of it. The UN sent in peacekeepers. Ethiopia kept teritories gained in this last skirmish and has retained them despite international pressure. The border is still not really settled.

 

The Eritrean government, while romanic in its "underdog" status has proved to be a disappointedly typical one-party state. And there are ties between the government and radical Islamists especially in neighboring Somalia.

 

So it is all a complicated story. And this is a greatly simplified version. There are so many ethnic groups on both sides of the border. And both sides have both Christian and Muslim populations of good size and ancient heritage. It is in a region that is unstable, but for now there is a bit of a "cold peace."

 

Now I'm trying to remember the question? :D

 

Bill

Edited December 10, 2010 by Spy Car

[ElizabethB]

I miss Ethiopian food! I became allergic to teff, but it was one of the few foods I could eat at a restaurant for a while. It was quite yummy.

 

Nothing to add to the history, but an added plug for trying the food!!

[Spy Car]

I miss Ethiopian food! I became allergic to teff, but it was one of the few foods I could eat at a restaurant for a while. It was quite yummy.

 

Nothing to add to the history, but an added plug for trying the food!!

 

Are you sure it was Tef you were allergic to? Most places won't tell you, but they generally use some wheat-flour in the injera.

 

Injera (for those who don't know) is a pancake-like bread that is first fermented, so the dough cooks up full of holes which makes the bread very light. It is also elastic and spongy soft. And the taste is a bit sour. Ethiopians serve a mix of stews on a bed of injera and then serve more injera on the side. The injera is used to scoop up these stews (Ethiopians call them "wats") and I'm digressing again.

 

Anyway, most places mix in wheat flour with the traditional ancient grain Tef. in part because Tef is much more expensive. By chance I became friendly with a very nice Ethiopian woman and her husband. They ran a small cafe (which was wonderful!) and then expanded to open a large market. The market had a small injera production in the back and she allowed me to go all through the process of making it one day. Although that did not include aging the dough we mixed (that takes time) but we made up bread with already fermented dough. It was delicious, but it was part wheat. Just saying.

 

The little place we went that night in '83 ended up burning in the Rodney King riots and was never rebuilt. Other places have opened around Fairfax and Pico, but none ever became "my place" like this one was.

 

Now I'm getting hungry :D

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

It is my understanding that the 1998 conflict was primarily over the border town of Badme. It seems that neither side was sure to whom it belonged, even when Eritrea was just another region of Ethiopia. The trouble began when Eritrea was declared in independant state, and they now fight over this little town. I was in Ethiopia in 1999, but I was told to never ask anyone any questions about it because you never knew who to trust (plus I don't speak Amharic.). Scary place at the time.

 

Yep. The international consensus is that Badme belongs to Eritrea. But Ethiopia won possession and retains control.

 

Bill

[FaithManor]

Bill, You must write a book for us. This was an excellent, down-to-earth, easy to digest synopsis of a very quirky piece of modern history.

 

Yeah SpyCar!

 

Faith

[Ibbygirl]

Bill, You must write a book for us. This was an excellent, down-to-earth, easy to digest synopsis of a very quirky piece of modern history.

 

Yeah SpyCar!

 

Faith

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[HollyB]

Now I know exactly what I'm having for lunch today! :D

[FaithManor]

Yes, and Bill should find a way to cook it and transmit the meal over the internet! I live in Michigan; truly ethnic food is non-existent in "these here parts". I'd love to taste some of what he was talking about!

 

Faith

[Spy Car]

Yes, and Bill should find a way to cook it and transmit the meal over the internet! I live in Michigan; truly ethnic food is non-existent in "these here parts". I'd love to taste some of what he was talking about!

 

Faith

 

A quick Google search shows a string of Ethiopian restaurant strung along the Detroit-Ann Arbor-Lansing-Grand Rapids corridor. May not be your neck of the woods, but I put it out there.

 

Ethiopean food is really good, and ought to be experienced at least once. The food is served communally, and you use your hands to scoop up the food using Injera. The food is heavily spiced but (at least in restaurants here) it is not super-picante.

 

I hope one day you get a chance to try it. Ethiopians have one of those cultures where "hospitality" is very important, so eating at an Ethopian restaurant is usually quite enjoyable as they tend to try to make you feel like a guest.

 

Thank you for the kind words!

 

Bill

[unsinkable]

"Two bald men fighting over a comb" is how it was described to me. I have no idea either.

 

That explanation seems so superior & dismissive especially after reading what Bill wrote.

 

I know they weren't your words, LG. Please don't think I am picking on you.

[ElizabethB]

Are you sure it was Tef you were allergic to? Most places won't tell you, but they generally use some wheat-flour in the injera.

 

Bill

 

Yes. It was after we left LA that I became allergic to it, I was making injera myself (a poor copy, I did not want to go through the whole smelly process) from teff flour. And, I can still eat wheat! (I have tried gluten free, and it does not help.)

[LG Gone Wild]

That explanation seems so superior & dismissive especially after reading what Bill wrote.

 

I know they weren't your words, LG. Please don't think I am picking on you.

 

Those words just stuck with me and so they come to mind whenever I hear about Ethiopia and Eritrea. They were spoken by diplomats in the area and I suppose context helps. There were probably spoken with weariness as there are sooooooo many conflicts in Africa.

 

No worries, not offended.

 

ETA: Wait, I take that back. If I remember correctly, it was in reference to the landscape over the disputed areas.

Edited December 10, 2010 by LG Gone Wild

[FaithManor]

But Spycar, those restaurants are two hours or more away!!! I'm whining now because you've whetted my appetite for a true Ethiopian eating experience.

 

Faith

[Spy Car]

Those words just stuck with me and so they come to mind whenever I hear about Ethiopia and Eritrea. They were spoken by diplomats in the area and I suppose context helps. There were probably spoken with weariness as there are sooooooo many conflicts in Africa.

 

No worries, not offended.

 

It is an understandable comment in some ways. It does of course ignore the tremendous cultural heritage of Ethiopia, but the conflict happened in an atmosphere of ruin and want, and with famine in the land.

 

You can't push two nations together that don't want to be together (especially when one wants to eradicate the languages of the junior partner). But Eritrea is ethnically and linguistically complex, as is Ethiopia. The peoples of these two nations are quite similar, and a unified country (with sea-port access) would arguably have been stronger than having Ethiopia remaining land-locked.

 

People were literally starving to death. nd those outside were heart-sick about the devastation. So saying it was bald men fighting over a comb makes some sense when the whole world could see children dying. I think this was an expression of frustration with the situation, and an understandable notion coming from an outside perspective.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

But Spycar, those restaurants are two hours or more away!!! I'm whining now because you've whetted my appetite for a true Ethiopian eating experience.

 

Faith

 

I believe your State manufactures automobiles (at least it used to :tongue_smilie:) and that is what these marvelous inventions were created for :D

 

Sooner or later you will travel to one of these places, yes? When you do have an eating adventure mixed in. Yummy :001_smile:

 

Bill

[FaithManor]

Spycar for President, Spycar for President!

 

Bill, you make too much sense. I was discussing the situation of India and East/West Pakistan/Bangladesh, the problems on the Balkan Pennisula, Vietnam, and North and South Korea with my nearly 14 year old the other day. I want him to wrap his brain around some of the crazy decisions that world powers have made and how this kind of political move destroys the lives of countless people while not bringing any measure of peace.

 

Now, if we could just get the talking heads of world government to take a decent history class or two, we might just get somewhere.

 

Faith

[HollyB]

Faith,

Are you going to the Lansing homeschool convention in the spring? Try to make it over to Altu's Ethiopian Cuisine in East Lansing. It's only a couple of miles away from the convention center. The food is good and they usually have live music on Saturday nights.

[FaithManor]

No, I'm sorry but I won't be attending. That is only one week before our 4-H group will be heading off to Virginia if they qualify for the National Rocketry Contest. They've got a good chance and I won't even know about the results of the preliminaries until April 10th. So we'll have less than a month to prepare and fundraise for the event. Even if the team doesn't qualify, dh and I might go with our kids just to see what the competition is like. This is the first year that our county has entered the contest.

 

Faith

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Yes, and Bill should find a way to cook it and transmit the meal over the internet! I live in Michigan; truly ethnic food is non-existent in "these here parts". I'd love to taste some of what he was talking about!

 

Faith

 

 

Actually that is a gross misrepresentation of the food scene in Michigan. Just depends on where you are located. There are many great ethnic cuisines available all over the state. But, not all of them are available in all parts of the state.

[FaithManor]

Sorry to generalize, yes there are true ethnic food restaurants in the Detroit/Ann Arbor areas and a few in others. I should have said that in the challenged area that I live, I am a long way from anything like this which is why I wanted Bill to find a way to build a transporter room and send some to me.

 

I am very sorry that I offended some people.

 

Faith

[Aubrey]

I have been trying all day to think what to say in response to this thread. I guess "thank you" will have to suffice, because it's all my very-full brain can come up with.

 

I have many, many more questions, but they're all irrelevant to this thread...and now I'm reading about Rwanda. :D

 

I started reading about the geography of Africa, & somewhere, there was a suggestion to learn & label all of the country names, & I thought that was too much. I thought that so many countries, whose borders & names are in flux anyway would be too hard to learn, that there wouldn't be enough differences between them to keep them straight.

 

Now I've learned so much in just a day that I can't fathom how 53 countries seemed like too much? With as many times as we studied the American Revolution in school, surely there could have been a little time for African geography/history! And as an adult, my goodness. This has turned out not to be a burden at all & much more interesting than I imagined.

 

Thank you, everybody. (And Bill--never mind. "Thank you" is really all I've got.)

[Aubrey]

I just got to the point in the Ethiopia book that you're describing, Bill. Selassie has been overthrown & imprisoned (probably murdered) by the Derg, who attempt to "reshape Ethiopia into a socialist state...."

 

The only criticism the book has mentioned of Selassie to this point is lavish spending while his people are hungry.

 

Am I right to read this as a repeat of the Russian Revolution?

[FaithManor]

Bill,

 

Does anyone know for certain what happened to Selassie? Was there any kind of serious public outcry about his arrest?

 

Faith

[pqr]

I just got to the point in the Ethiopia book that you're describing, Bill. Selassie has been overthrown & imprisoned (probably murdered) by the Derg, who attempt to "reshape Ethiopia into a socialist state...."

 

The only criticism the book has mentioned of Selassie to this point is lavish spending while his people are hungry.

 

Am I right to read this as a repeat of the Russian Revolution?

 

It was a Soviet inspired revolution that reached a level of terror that was extreme even by African standards.

 

While there are events in common with Russian Revolution one of the main differences is that the leadership in Ethiopia was drawn from military officers (Mengistu et al) who led the coup while in Russia most of the senior leadership were (for the October Revolution) "proffessional revolutionaries" while the first Russian Revolution saw politicians such as Kerensky assume power.

Edited December 11, 2010 by pqr

[pqr]

For those interested:

 

One of the best books on Italian-Ethiopian War is Coffey's Lion by the Tail. It is well written and an excellent read. Mussolini's war was only a continuation of conflict between the Abyssinians and the Italians. The First Italian Ethiopian War saw the 1896 Battle of Adowa when the Abyssinians thrashed the Italians (one of the greatest defeats of a European army by an African people)

 

Hancock's The Sign and the Seal speaks tangentially of the terrain and religious evnironment in Ethiopia. Even if one does not buy the theory behind the book it is again worth the read.

 

The great explorer Thesiger was born in Addis and his autobiography The Life of my Choice describes, among other things, his service with Wingate when the British drove the Italians out in very short order.

[unsinkable]

For those interested:

 

One of the best books on Italian-Ethiopian War is Coffey's Lion by the Tail. It is well written and an excellent read. Mussolini's war was only a continuation of conflict between the Abyssinians and the Italians. The First Italian Ethiopian War saw the 1896 Battle of Adowa when the Abyssinians thrashed the Italians (one of the greatest defeats of a European army by an African people)

 

Hancock's The Sign and the Seal speaks tangentially of the terrain and religious evnironment in Ethiopia. Even if one does not buy the theory behind the book it is again worth the read.

 

The great explorer Thesiger was born in Addis and his autobiography The Life of my Choice describes, among other things, his service with Wingate when the British drove the Italians out in very short order.

 

Thanks for the booklist!

[pqr]

Thanks for the booklist!

 

 

Most welcome. Rereading my post I wanted to make it clear that Lion by the Tail is about Mussolini's War not the war in the 1890s.

[SpecialClassical]

Yes, and Bill should find a way to cook it and transmit the meal over the internet! I live in Michigan; truly ethnic food is non-existent in "these here parts". I'd love to taste some of what he was talking about!

 

Faith

 

Hi, Faith.

 

I am mostly a lurker, but somehow in my mind I have the impression that you are near GR. If so, try Gojo Ethiopian Cuisine. I hope to get there sometime myself as we have a little Ethiopian right here in our home. Off to get ready for an Ethiopian adoption meeting.

[FaithManor]

Hi Jvander,

 

No, I am no where near GR. Thanks for the tip though.

 

Faith

[Celia]

I've enjoyed this thread. Thank you Spy Car!

[Spy Car]

I've enjoyed this thread. Thank you Spy Car!

 

Thank you for saying so.

 

Bill,

 

Does anyone know for certain what happened to Selassie? Was there any kind of serious public outcry about his arrest?

 

Faith

 

I have no way to know what true story is about his death. Some assume he was murdered, others that he was allowed to die following minor complications (that could have been treated), some claim "natural causes." Mengistu (the dictator who supplanted Selassie) was such an unpleasant person (read: genocidal murderer) that I don't give him any benefit of the doubt. But I don't know that we will every have anything but speculative "theories."

 

There was outcry over his arrest. I mentioned earlier that I was shocked that he was overthrown. It seemed unthinkable.

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

...and now I'm reading about Rwanda. :D

 

Oh goodie. I studied them briefly in my African history class at uni. Not enough to be able to answer any questions most likely, but enough to be really interested in someone else's lengthy essays :)

 

Rosie