Do people really give cars as Christmas presents?

[Tarreymere]

I've been following this thread.......and I guess I can claim much virtue because the only car we own is a 1988 Dodge Omni. On the other hand, should anyone feel compelled to test my virtue and increase their own generosity score by giving me a brand new luxury car for a christmas gift, please feel free!

 

:D

[Crimson Wife]

But according to the Bible (which, while I'm not Christian, I have read), Jesus knew plenty of wealthy people, and I don't recall him telling them they were selfish for not giving away all their money and living in poverty because there were others who had less.

 

16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

Matthew 19:6-23 (KJV)

[Crimson Wife]

Well, you could say the same thing about anything in life. How big is your house?

 

Modest

 

Do your kids need to each have their own rooms? Couldn't they have shared rooms, and you donated the excess money to charity?

 

The girls do share a room

 

Could you have bought in a less expensive neighborhood?

 

We didn't buy in a chi-chi neighborhood but rather as modest a one we could find that is safe & close to public transportation.

 

Do you really NEED two cars? Many families manage with just one. Does one have to be an SUV or minivan when a small, energy efficient sedan would save more money that you could tithe?

 

We drive one economy station wagon.

 

Do you really need to buy high-quality, organic fruits and vegetables? Off-brand, canned food will keep you alive just fine, and thrift store t-shirts and sweatpants cover the body just as well as new, name brand items.

 

I don't buy organic and shop at consignment shops rather than wear designer clothes

 

there are people here who keep their heat at 55 degrees in winter and wear hats and woolens indoors

 

We do and we keep the AC at 78 in the summer

 

Jesus spends more time in the Gospels talking about the pitfalls of materialism than virtually any other topic. If you all are comfortable facing Him when Judgment Day comes and rationalizing owning luxury vehicles, designer clothes, fancy jewelery, etc. when so many of His children are lacking basics, then more power to you. Me, I go for "voluntary simplicity" because that's the message I see in Christ's teachings.

[melissel]

Jesus spends more time in the Gospels talking about the pitfalls of materialism than virtually any other topic. If you all are comfortable facing Him when Judgment Day comes and rationalizing owning luxury vehicles, designer clothes, fancy jewelery, etc. when so many of His children are lacking basics, then more power to you. Me, I go for "voluntary simplicity" because that's the message I see in Christ's teachings.

 

I'm sorry, I should have clarified that I wasn't actually aiming those questions at you directly. They were more rhetorical and for the general "you." And I don't disagree with you, and I think it's great that you aim for voluntary simplicity. I personally own an ancient minivan that's depressingly beat up and live in a 50-year-old house that's in the same general state! But I also think it's OK to enjoy the fruits of your labors as long as you're living a good and generous life overall. (Also, I'm an atheist, so I don't consider WWJD as a rule, but I do still consider whom I can help and how I can help as often I'm able to do so.)

[Catwoman]

Jesus spends more time in the Gospels talking about the pitfalls of materialism than virtually any other topic. If you all are comfortable facing Him when Judgment Day comes and rationalizing owning luxury vehicles, designer clothes, fancy jewelery, etc. when so many of His children are lacking basics, then more power to you. Me, I go for "voluntary simplicity" because that's the message I see in Christ's teachings.

 

I apologize if I got the wrong impression from your earlier post to this thread; I thought you were being very judgmental. I now see that you're not judging anyone, but that you live your life based upon your own beliefs, and are cautioning others not out of envy or anger, but because you truly believe that it's important to live modestly and to use the rest of your resources to help others, and you want to share those ideas with us.

 

I happen to disagree with you on this issue, as I think it's possible to live an upscale lifestyle and still do a lot to help others, but I certainly respect your personal choices and opinions.

 

Cat

[Murphy101]

Jesus spends more time in the Gospels talking about the pitfalls of materialism than virtually any other topic. If you all are comfortable facing Him when Judgment Day comes and rationalizing owning luxury vehicles, designer clothes, fancy jewelery, etc. when so many of His children are lacking basics, then more power to you. Me, I go for "voluntary simplicity" because that's the message I see in Christ's teachings.

 

You know, if someone were buying themselves a car they don't need and then saying they couldn't afford to tithe, or buy Christmas presents even for family - sure you'd have a somewhat valid point.

 

But to claim someone is being an unchristian materialist for being generous enough to buy someone ELSE a car, new or otherwise, is just ridiculous and has nothing whatsoever to do with biblical teachings.

 

Maybe they bought a new car because they got a great deal, wanted a warrantee, a maintenance package, better fuel use, and simply wanted the person they purchased it for to truely not have to worry when it came to their transportation. I think it is incredibly flat out tacky and unchristian to think ill of someone's character if they give a gift you view as a luxury just because it is more than you would spend or on something you wouldn't buy.

 

Sure buying used is certainly practical for those on a lower income. We have never owned a new vehicle either. Both our vehicles are paid for and as such we will drive them until they sputter their last puff of exhaust.

 

But there's nothing particularly Christian about driving these vehicles.

 

And there's plenty of frustrations and hardships. Having a newer, cheaper to use, reliable vehicle that we didn't have to worry about quitting on us would be a tremendous relief and source of comfort. And tho this is probably most true for my dh as without it he cannot earn a living, I bet he isn't the only man who would feel like a huge burden had been lifted off his shoulders if he didn't have to worry about the wife and kids having a working vehicle. I don't doubt for a single minute that if my dh could afford to gift me with a new 15 passenger van, he would and we'd both feel gratitude to God for the opportunity and having one less stress.

 

By the standards some have expressed here, don't buy ANYTHING this Christmas! It's apparently unchristian to waste money on any gifts that might not be absolutely frugal and a basic need. No lights or tree either. And eat porridge for Christmas dinner.

 

And yet Jesus was given gold, frankenscense, and myrrh. The most expensive things around at the time. And I'm pretty sure the son of God could have managed without it. Thank goodness they gave him gold to help get out of Egypt. It would have been unchristian to have given him... Oh what? A new carriage or even a second donkey - I mean come on, he already had one and it's just frivolous to have two. Obviously those kings will have to answer for giving such outrageously expensive and excessive gifts.

 

This thread topic should be added to the bah hum buggers unite thread.:glare:

Edited November 29, 2010 by Martha

[Kate CA]

16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

Matthew 19:6-23 (KJV)

 

He did not ask this of every rich person. He asked this of the one whose treasure *was* his possessions. Some people have money and use it for the glory of God and are not bound by their possessions. Others are bound by them. You cannot use this verse to apply to all that have riches. It is not warranted in scripture.

 

In Acts 5 even Peter deals with this:

 

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.â€

 

5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died.

 

Wasn't the money at their disposal? They were not slain because they didn't give it all. They were slain because they *lied.*

 

1 Kings 10:23

King Solomon was greater in riches and wisdom than all the other kings of the earth.

 

Was Solomon in sin because he was blessed of God with riches?

 

2 Chronicles 32:27-29

 

27 Hezekiah had very great wealth and honor, and he made treasuries for his silver and gold and for his precious stones, spices, shields and all kinds of valuables. 28 He also made buildings to store the harvest of grain, new wine and olive oil; and he made stalls for various kinds of cattle, and pens for the flocks. 29 He built villages and acquired great numbers of flocks and herds, for God had given him very great riches.

 

Was Hezekiah?

 

Psalm 62:10

Do not trust in extortion or put vain hope in stolen goods; though your riches increase, do not set your heart on them.

 

As the psalmist says, "...do not set your heart on them." It is a heart issue, not an issue of what one has.

 

Do not try to bind someone's conscience because yours may be bound. If yours is, then live according to that conviction, but it isn't stated in scripture that if one has riches, it is only to be used in one way. Money is a blessing and a gift of God and sometimes He gives it to those that use it wisely. Buying a car for someone as a gift is not a sin.

 

(And for those of you who wonder, we are NOT rich, and I have to work from home to make ends meet.)

[LND1218]

Do people really give cars as Christmas presents?

 

Yes they sure do. And I am glad they do since that makes my Christmas merrier. :auto: :tongue_smilie:

 

I have never gotten one, and I don't want to or expect to get oneBut I am glad others do.

 

Sometimes they are paid for in cash and sometimes they aren't.

 

To me a gift doesn't come with a monthly payment though. :001_huh:

So when it's not paid for, I don't see it as a gift, but a lot of people do.

 

Sometimes they are picked out together and sometimes they aren't.

 

Dh says often when a spouse buys a car for their dw/dh they know what the other person wants because they have been looking for awhile or talking about it.

 

In one case, they (a couple) were shopping for a car, and after the dw choose the car, the dh stalled. And it was sold out from under her. So she was the only one they had was already sold. Dw really wanted that car. But she couldn't get it because it was sold. What she didn't know was it was sold to her dh. :D So it was the car she choose - he surprised her with it for Christmas. They were buying it anyway....but it was fun.

[Murphy101]

To me a gift doesn't come with a monthly payment though.

 

I agree. I do not consider debt to be a present. I'd politely as possible turn a gift of debt down.

[cathmom]

Do people really give cars as Christmas presents?

 

Yes they sure do. And I am glad they do since that makes my Christmas merrier. :auto: :tongue_smilie:

 

I have never gotten one, and I don't want to or expect to get oneBut I am glad others do.

 

Sometimes they are paid for in cash and sometimes they aren't.

 

To me a gift doesn't come with a monthly payment though. :001_huh:

So when it's not paid for, I don't see it as a gift, but a lot of people do.

 

Sometimes they are picked out together and sometimes they aren't.

 

Dh says often when a spouse buys a car for their dw/dh they know what the other person wants because they have been looking for awhile or talking about it.

 

In one case, they (a couple) were shopping for a car, and after the dw choose the car, the dh stalled. And it was sold out from under her. So she was the only one they had was already sold. Dw really wanted that car. But she couldn't get it because it was sold. What she didn't know was it was sold to her dh. :D So it was the car she choose - he surprised her with it for Christmas. They were buying it anyway....but it was fun.

 

So I guess your dh is a car salesman/dealer?

[MariannNOVA]

In one case, they (a couple) were shopping for a car, and after the dw choose the car, the dh stalled. And it was sold out from under her. So she was the only one they had was already sold. Dw really wanted that car. But she couldn't get it because it was sold. What she didn't know was it was sold to her dh. :D So it was the car she choose - he surprised her with it for Christmas. They were buying it anyway....but it was fun.

 

:D My sister purchased a guitar (my BIL collects guitars) that her dh had been looking at for months. He would visit the guitar shop every week and sit and play this particular one. After a few months, my sister called the shop, purchased it and had them put it in the back of the shop. The day my bil defended his thesis, my sister asked him to take her to the guitar shop and show him the guitar he had been playing for such a long time -- they arrived, bil looks for the guitar and he is told it has been SOLD. My bil is one of the nicest guys on the planet -- he shrugs, and says, oh, well, no big deal - but it was the BEST guitar. All of the salesman are watching as the manager brings the guitar out from the back and my sister surprises him with it. It's a great story!:D

[Catwoman]

What a great story, Mariann -- your sister sounds like a real sweetie!

 

Cat

[vonfirmath]

In a way, our family just got a car for Christmas. We bought a new-to-us car due to problems with the old one (bad brakes type of problem and the car was worth less than it would cost to fix) and the in-laws gifted us a VERY generous proportion of the cost of the new-to-us car.

 

We just got a car for Christmas!

[Catwoman]

In a way, our family just got a car for Christmas. We bought a new-to-us car due to problems with the old one (bad brakes type of problem and the car was worth less than it would cost to fix) and the in-laws gifted us a VERY generous proportion of the cost of the new-to-us car.

 

We just got a car for Christmas!

 

:party:

 

Congratulations!!! What a great gift!

 

Cat

[fairfarmhand]

I'd be livid if my dh spent that kind of money without my knowledge!!! Don't care that it was a gift for me. I'd be FURIOUS!

[justamouse]

It doesn't have to be either/or. There's no reason for a rich person to say, "I didn't tithe because I bought a car instead." You can be rich, give a full tithe, give a full offering, and give to charity and still have money left over for a Lexus as a present.

 

There were rich people in the bible who lived in great wealth and also served God. Abraham, Joseph, a number of the good kings, those rich women in the New Testament, and probably others I'm not remembering.

 

Yes, relying on riches instead of God is a pitfall for those who have money, like the rich young man who held onto his things instead of following Jesus. But there are other rich people that God can trust with a lot of money, because he knows they'll use it to serve him. I just don't see where he begrudges them playing with it as well. If that were the case, then Joseph should have given up his palaces and Abraham should have sold all his cattle and given it away, the father in the prodigal son story should have given the fatted calf to the poor villagers, and so forth, but God didn't require that of them.

 

If one really believes that he doesn't want us to do anything else with our money except give it away to the church or charity, then one would have to be living an extremely austere life in order to fulfill that requirement. But it's just not a requirement.

 

I think it falls under that part of the bible where God shows a pattern of giving to people what they can handle, like the different number of talents, or the different number of soldiers under a captain (some 10, some 100, etc.) Being a Christian doesn't mean being poor. It means following God and realizing that all our your resources are actually his, and being willing to give them back to him, and doing so when told to.

 

 

Amen.

 

You can't give away what you don't have.

[hsmamainva]

We're giving our oldest daughter a car for Christmas.

 

The very-used car my sister-in-law gave her when she turned 16 finally conked out in June and we've been sharing my car since then. She drives to college (a 45-minute drive each way) three days a week so I can't WAIT to have my own car back to drive whenever I want to!

 

It will be a new car -- we sank more money into the used car she used to have than it was worth -- we don't want that hassle all over again -- but, believe me, it won't be a Lexus! :lol:

 

Can't wait to surprise her on Christmas morning, though! We're having the car delivered to our neighbor's house and we're going to hang the keys on the Christmas tree and tell her she has a present somewhere on the tree ... we'll see how long it takes her to find them! ;)

[Rosy]

What would Jesus do? Would he say, "Go on, splurge on luxuries" or would he say, "Use your resources to help those in need"?

 

If you feel comfortable explaining to Christ why you chose to buy a Porsche instead of tithing and donating to charity, then go right ahead and do it. I know I wouldn't want that on my conscience!

 

I wouldn't want that on my conscience either. However, I can't say that there is never a time where owning a Porsche would be morally right. Any American who owns or rents a home lives a lifestyle of luxury that is unavailable to most of the world. I don't buy for a minute that any of us is doing everything we can to help the poor/fund missions. I'm sure we could all do more.

 

To answer the OP's question, if we had the discretionary income to pay cash for it and DH knew which one I would like, I would have no problem receiving a vehicle for Christmas, or giving him one. But I don't know people IRL who do this. Most of the people I know are living on one income and have to save and plan and/or make car payments.

[Imprimis]

Can't wait to surprise her on Christmas morning, though! We're having the car delivered to our neighbor's house and we're going to hang the keys on the Christmas tree and tell her she has a present somewhere on the tree ... we'll see how long it takes her to find them! ;)

 

I love the keys on the tree idea! What an awesome surprise that will be for your daughter.

[mom4him]

Every December my family is just flabbergasted by car commercials that suggest them as presents, like the Lexus ones. How much does a Lexus cost? $40-50K? Are these people supposedly paying cash for them? Even if you could, frankly, I'd be mad at my dh for spending the money without consulting me on a car!

 

I'm not talking like a less than $5000 used car for a teenager or something like that. I'm talking about "go to a dealership and buy a brand new car as a surprise for someone." Does that really happen?

Well, no one on my list made it and I don't think I am on anyones list for that either.:lol::lol::lol:

[Catwoman]

I wouldn't want that on my conscience either. However, I can't say that there is never a time where owning a Porsche would be morally right.

....

 

To answer the OP's question, if we had the discretionary income to pay cash for it and DH knew which one I would like, I would have no problem receiving a vehicle for Christmas, or giving him one. But I don't know people IRL who do this. Most of the people I know are living on one income and have to save and plan and/or make car payments.

 

Dh and I drove Porsches for years, and my brother and I had matching Porsches when we were younger, and I still remember how much fun it was when he told me he'd found the perfect cars for us. Now that my brother has passed away, I still think about the two of us in our stupid matching cars and it makes me smile. My dad had the best time buying things like cars for me, and getting great gifts for my brother and me made him and my mom very happy.

 

We pay cash for our vehicles, and we do give and receive them as gifts in our family. I don't think it's a conscience issue at all. I do think it's, as you mentioned, more of an affordability issue. If you can't afford to buy something and actually pay for it at the time, it's not really a gift!

 

Cat

[Rosy]

I do think it's, as you mentioned, more of an affordability issue.

 

 

Totally. Who's to say which car is a luxury and which one isn't? Some people would consider my 2003 minivan that currently isn't having problems (knock on wood!) a luxury. Some people would consider having paved roads to drive on a luxury.

 

I love your Porsche story. :)

[MariannNOVA]

Dh and I drove Porsches for years, and my brother and I had matching Porsches when we were younger, and I still remember how much fun it was when he told me he'd found the perfect cars for us. Now that my brother has passed away, I still think about the two of us in our stupid matching cars and it makes me smile. My dad had the best time buying things like cars for me, and getting great gifts for my brother and me made him and my mom very happy.

 

We pay cash for our vehicles, and we do give and receive them as gifts in our family. I don't think it's a conscience issue at all. I do think it's, as you mentioned, more of an affordability issue. If you can't afford to buy something and actually pay for it at the time, it's not really a gift!

 

Cat

 

I love the Porsche story. LOVE IT!:grouphug::)

[Catwoman]

Thanks, Mariann and Rosy! :grouphug:

 

Cat

[LibraryLover]

The folks who work in Porsche factories so their kids can have a home thank you as well.

 

LL, who cannot believe she is saying this. :D