Oh, we didn't have a Bible lesson(CC)

[mom4him]

Ok, the kids and I went to a different church yesterday. After the praise and worship the kids went downstairs for Childrens Church. After church I asked them what the Bible lesson was about and was informed that they didn't have a Bible Lesson, they did a craft. HUH?

Both of the kids love it mainly because two other kids that live in our neighborhood go there. We live next door to the assist. pastors, do I go ask if this is a norm, give it another week and if no lesson keep on the search? What do I do?

I can do a craft with them at home. I want them instructed in the Word while we go to church not just entertained.

[Mrs Mungo]

1. In my experience it is entirely possible for kids to have a lesson without realizing they had a lesson.

 

2. Giving a church a try once isn't really giving it a try at all, IMO.

[Joyofsixreboot]

1. In my experience it is entirely possible for kids to have a lesson without realizing they had a lesson.

 

2. Giving a church a try once isn't really giving it a try at all, IMO.

 

:iagree: I do the children's message. One of the kids told her parents we played with sand and water :confused: We were talking about building your house on the rock. Did they have a story to go with the craft? Was it part two of a lesson? I'd ask the children's church teacher (in a nice way of course).

[Rhonda in TX]

I agree with the previous posters. Kids often only remember one thing, and it's not necessarily the one thing the teacher hoped they would remember! :)

 

I would recommend that you actually go observe what's going on in Children's Church. If you have concerns, talk to someone. Maybe the regular teacher is sick and the substitutes are just doing the best they can. Or maybe CC is just crafts and fun. You never know the whole story if you don't ask.

[cermincantik]

1. In my experience it is entirely possible for kids to have a lesson without realizing they had a lesson.

 

 

 

:iagree:

[....]

Our church uses the strict bible lesson that CPH uses (Concordia) and the kids sit there while the lady reads the lesson and they fill in the blanks on the worksheet. My kids absolutely hate it. They never want to go to Sunday School and the presentation is totally incompatible with my 5 yro's ability to focus (or lack of ability to focus). The other kids are squirming around in their seats and one of the boys just puts his head on the table.

 

So, back to the craft...maybe the lady was using the "craft" to keep their hands busy while she told them a bible story. If I taught Sunday School, we would do something like this. I would also have the kids moving around the room or interacting with each other in some way. I know just from our homeschooling how my kids retain information...and how to keep their attention.

 

You could just go watch one Sunday and see what they do.

[Margo out of lurking]

It may not have been the regular teacher, or it's possible the teachers rotate and this is not the norm. If I were interested in continuing to check out this church, I'd talk to both the teacher and the children's pastor--not because of what the kids said, but in general because I'd want to know what to expect from the classes at ANY church where my kids would be under the influence of someone I did not know. Like any other classroom, it may be good or bad, affected by several different factors over which you have little control.

 

I am so leery of children's programs at churches that, at 9 and 10, my kids definitely would have come into worship with me.

 

Now I'm sounding like a control freak.:eek: Oops!

[mytwomonkeys]

was this for your 10 and 9 year olds? if yes, then i'll be the odd man out and agree with you. at that age, learning through a craft only seems strange to me. at our church preschool-2nd grade learn through crafts and stories, but in 3rd grade the children are presented a bible & begin to learn through bible study. we're UMC, so it isn't like were extreme or anything. i think it's age appropriate to shift from crafts & stories to more of a bible study for those ages. i would ask the children's pastor for clarification though. hth.

[Frontier Mom]

As a home educating mom and children's ministry director at our church, I have a couple of thoughts.

 

First, as a children's ministry director, you are working with people. Yes, as others said, the children often don't recognize the story in the activity. I think you would have to be there to determine the extent of this. Also, there are just those Sundays when someone was sick and you needed a fill in at the last minute. That is life, both at church and at home. Things are not always ideal but I would suggest you volunteer to be a helper a Sunday or so to see what is going on "behind the scenes." You may see things different from the other side, so to speak, and you might just find they are in need of direction.

 

We spend a lot of time at our church finding out how new people "view" our church and its ministries. If your church is open to that, you might want to discuss this with the pastor you know. Maybe they don't know the impression new people get like you but I would think he would appreciate you sharing it with him in a kind and loving manner. Give them more than one Sunday to make up your mind though and jump in and volunteer every now and again to see how things are run and if there is a plan of discipleship.

 

As a home educating mom, I find my dcs are way ahead of their peers at church in their bible knowledge and application. Now, don't get me wrong and think my dcs are perfect because, after the incident I had with them at church yesterday, I can assure you that is NOT the case. I am just stating that doing any form of discipleship at home is foreign to many children today. Mine could answer every question but then they come across pretty obnoxious. As they have matured, they are now leading groups and helping with discipleship, but in the younger years they found most teaching moments pretty boring because it seemed so simple to them. Maybe your children saw it as a craft because they were so familiar with the story already. But, there may be many there who have never heard the story. I can't say for sure because I wasn't there but this is just an observation and something we deal with on a regular basis.

[Kipling]

was this for your 10 and 9 year olds? if yes, then i'll be the odd man out and agree with you. at that age, learning through a craft only seems strange to me. at our church preschool-2nd grade learn through crafts and stories, but in 3rd grade the children are presented a bible & begin to learn through bible study. we're UMC, so it isn't like were extreme or anything. i think it's age appropriate to shift from crafts & stories to more of a bible study for those ages. i would ask the children's pastor for clarification though. hth.

:iagree:

I coordinate the children's ministry at our church. I would not expect younger children to always know what lesson they learned or even that they learned a lesson (if the teacher is a great story teller or the story was interwoven with the craft, the young kids may not realize that they HAD a lesson). However, at 9 and 10 years old, I would expect the kids to know if they had a lesson, even if it was part of the craft. And at our church, the 3rd and 4th grade classes don't really do a lot of crafts. They spend more time on the Bible lesson. So, yes, I would be concerned if a 9 and 10 year old did not do a Bible lesson. However, like many others said, there could be other circumstances (sub. teacher, continued lesson, etc).

 

I would recommend talking to the coordinator of the children's ministry/Sunday school director/children's minister (whatever that person is called at the church). I get questions from visiting parents as well as emails from families who are interested in trying our church. They want to know things like: how are the classes divided? What curricula do we use? What do the kids do in class? Are the teachers background checked? I think it is perfectly reasonable for parents to want to know what the kids will be doing when they are away from them, so I don't have a problem with their questions at all. Does the church have a website or phone number? Contact them this week and get your questions answered before next Sunday.

[Aunty Social]

Was this Sunday School, or Children's Worship? In our church, we have two separate programs. Sunday School meets between the two services and is divided according to grade. They have an age appropriate Bible lesson, support missions, etc. During the service, we have Children's Worship. The younger kids (age 3 up to 5th or 6th grade) hear a short (2-5 min message) in the service and then go down to a classroom. Once there, they hear a Bible story, do a craft, play a game, and have a small snack. It is def. geared toward the younger children. My younger two kids go and love it, even though they are getting a little old....my dd enjoys spending time with the little ones and helping them, and my ds loves the fact that he doesn't have to sit still:lol:.

 

As the others have said, I'd go a couple more times. Could be they are set up similarly to us and Children's Church serves more as a babysitting service than serious instruction.

[lionfamily1999]

Ok, the kids and I went to a different church yesterday. After the praise and worship the kids went downstairs for Childrens Church. After church I asked them what the Bible lesson was about and was informed that they didn't have a Bible Lesson, they did a craft. HUH?

Both of the kids love it mainly because two other kids that live in our neighborhood go there. We live next door to the assist. pastors, do I go ask if this is a norm, give it another week and if no lesson keep on the search? What do I do?

I can do a craft with them at home. I want them instructed in the Word while we go to church not just entertained.

Our church does the Bible lesson during Sunday School (before the service). During the service the kids play games, make crafts, or just play.

[Laurie4b]

I think you should ask if you can observe.

 

I teach children's Sunday school and while it we do have a dedicated time with a Bible in front of the children (from 1st up), we also teach through crafts, games, etc. The crafts in that case are not an add-on but a teaching method.

 

I have also found that children at the grammar stage, when asked, "What did you learn in Sunday school today?" will often answer, "Nothing." They may have had a very in-depth lesson, but if they were familiar with the story, they already have the story in their "factoid" collection. They may not tune into depth or learning something new or fresh. So go observe before you draw conclusions based on their report of what happened.

[Laurie4b]

As a home educating mom, I find my dcs are way ahead of their peers at church in their bible knowledge and application. ... Maybe your children saw it as a craft because they were so familiar with the story already. But, there may be many there who have never heard the story. I can't say for sure because I wasn't there but this is just an observation and something we deal with on a regular basis.

 

I agree. This is my observation as well: that kids who are discipled at home are becoming a distinct minority.

[....]

was this for your 10 and 9 year olds? if yes, then i'll be the odd man out and agree with you. at that age, learning through a craft only seems strange to me.

 

When I read her post, I was assuming these were young children. In our church, the children's service (where they leave right before the sermon and come back before Communion) is only for 7 and under. A 9 or 10 year-old would follow the Order of Service with the adults.

 

Oh, well. Have a good schoolday, Everybody! :coolgleamA: Prima Latina is calling.

[FriedClams]

Let me preface this by stating my bias ;)... I am anti "programs" and we attend a family integrated church...

 

 

I have 2 theories about kids and church.

 

1. Kids aren't stupid. They aren't ignorant about spiritual matters and they should be treated with more respect than most church "programs" give them. Systematic theology for 5 year olds? Maybe not intensely - but kids can and want to learn about things of God. "I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." Mark 10:15. Jesus expected kids to "get it" and we should as well. When things of faith are watered down to a SpongeBob level, go figure kids turn away or are disinterested. We should treat them better, teach them more and not insult them by not believing that they can grow in their faith beyond crafts, play time and silliness. (And I am all for silliness! Just when it's appropriate.)

 

2. I believe that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Tim 3:16). Kids should be taught with scripture. Real scripture. They can handle it.

 

So -if I were there red flags would have gone up and we would likely not return. I guess it's a lot like twaddle and books - I just really wouldn't want their weekly worship experience (and expectation of corporate church) to be what I would consider "twaddle"-y.

[Laurie in Life]

1. In my experience it is entirely possible for kids to have a lesson without realizing they had a lesson.

 

2. Giving a church a try once isn't really giving it a try at all, IMO.

 

:iagree: This has happened more than once with both of my kids.

[lionfamily1999]

When I read her post, I was assuming these were young children. In our church, the children's service (where they leave right before the sermon and come back before Communion) is only for 7 and under. A 9 or 10 year-old would follow the Order of Service with the adults.

 

Oh, well. Have a good schoolday, Everybody! :coolgleamA: Prima Latina is calling.

We start them in the regular service at 13, but we do have one Sunday a month where all the kids over 3 are kept with us.

Let me preface this by stating my bias ;)... I am anti "programs" and we attend a family integrated church...

 

 

I have 2 theories about kids and church.

 

1. Kids aren't stupid. They aren't ignorant about spiritual matters and they should be treated with more respect than most church "programs" give them. Systematic theology for 5 year olds? Maybe not intensely - but kids can and want to learn about things of God. "I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." Mark 10:15. Jesus expected kids to "get it" and we should as well. When things of faith are watered down to a SpongeBob level, go figure kids turn away or are disinterested. We should treat them better, teach them more and not insult them by not believing that they can grow in their faith beyond crafts, play time and silliness. (And I am all for silliness! Just when it's appropriate.)

 

2. I believe that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Tim 3:16). Kids should be taught with scripture. Real scripture. They can handle it.

 

So -if I were there red flags would have gone up and we would likely not return. I guess it's a lot like twaddle and books - I just really wouldn't want their weekly worship experience (and expectation of corporate church) to be what I would consider "twaddle"-y.

They could have done the lesson during Sunday School. Not all churches hold Sunday School during the service time.

[FloridaLisa]

I would definitely go and observe next Sunday. Actually, I would want to sit in on the Children's Church for several Sundays to get a good understanding of the program.

 

I'm not a fan of Children's Church. IME, it's typically watered down or *dumbed down* (though I hate to use that term for church and the Word) to be one the median kids' level. I'd rather have my kids in congregational worship, listening to the sermon. It's amazing how much they can pick up at that age. Additionally, I think Children's Church can lead to an idea that kids/youth have a culture separate from the adults and can also lead to the idea of being entertained at church, rather than serving and worshipping.

 

Lisa

Edited November 16, 2010 by FloridaLisa

[Parrothead]

Let me preface this by stating my bias ;)... I am anti "programs" and we attend a family integrated church...

 

 

I have 2 theories about kids and church.

 

1. Kids aren't stupid. They aren't ignorant about spiritual matters and they should be treated with more respect than most church "programs" give them. Systematic theology for 5 year olds? Maybe not intensely - but kids can and want to learn about things of God. "I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." Mark 10:15. Jesus expected kids to "get it" and we should as well. When things of faith are watered down to a SpongeBob level, go figure kids turn away or are disinterested. We should treat them better, teach them more and not insult them by not believing that they can grow in their faith beyond crafts, play time and silliness. (And I am all for silliness! Just when it's appropriate.)

 

2. I believe that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Tim 3:16). Kids should be taught with scripture. Real scripture. They can handle it.

 

So -if I were there red flags would have gone up and we would likely not return. I guess it's a lot like twaddle and books - I just really wouldn't want their weekly worship experience (and expectation of corporate church) to be what I would consider "twaddle"-y.

While all that sounds lovely, there are children who are not exposed to Scripture or God except once a week for an hour or two. Yet those same children are being entertained in the style of Spongebob and Hannah Montana and Mario 166-167 hours a week.

 

If Sunday school isn't entertaining kids don't want to be there. If they don't want to be there they are disruptive.

 

If Sunday school isn't entertaining kids won't pay attention. If they don't pay attention they don't learn anything. Then parents complain.

 

Parents like to see something tangible for the hour they have given their little darlings to the Sunday school teacher.

 

Many, dare I say most, kids are not getting exposure at home. The Sunday school teacher, just like any other group instructor, has to teach to the lowest common denominator.

[mytwomonkeys]

When I read her post, I was assuming these were young children. In our church, the children's service (where they leave right before the sermon and come back before Communion) is only for 7 and under. A 9 or 10 year-old would follow the Order of Service with the adults.

 

yes, they could be younger. i have no idea, that's why i asked. i was just looking at her siggie.

 

in our church, we have classes for grades k-5 during service. nursery is play based. preschool is craft based. k-2 is story & craft. 3rd begins bible study. 4th & 5 are even deeper. 6th grade you go to service, but you also begin confirmation and join the youth group which meets at a separate time.

[Gooblink]

1. In my experience it is entirely possible for kids to have a lesson without realizing they had a lesson.

 

2. Giving a church a try once isn't really giving it a try at all, IMO.

 

 

:iagree: I'll add, too, that crafts are fun to do with groups, instruction in the Word is what should be done mainly at home.

[silliness7]

Ok, the kids and I went to a different church yesterday. After the praise and worship the kids went downstairs for Childrens Church. After church I asked them what the Bible lesson was about and was informed that they didn't have a Bible Lesson, they did a craft. HUH?

Both of the kids love it mainly because two other kids that live in our neighborhood go there. We live next door to the assist. pastors, do I go ask if this is a norm, give it another week and if no lesson keep on the search? What do I do?

I can do a craft with them at home. I want them instructed in the Word while we go to church not just entertained.

 

If you are serious about your children's spiritual education I would attend the program myself. Personally, I think elementary-aged children get the most benefit from being in the worship service with everyone else and would be highly disturbed if my children were doing a craft instead of hearing the preaching of God's Word.

[Garga]

I think you should observe a lesson for yourself. I teach Children's Church for the 3-5 year olds. There have been a few times where a parent will stay while I teach to see what goes on. I LOVE IT. I do NOT understand why more don't visit to see what's going on.

 

I used to be a corporate trainer. I was taught that to be effective, you need to allow the students lots of hands-on opportunities. And so I did. My (adult 21-61 year old) students LOVED it when I let them do hands-on activities or "games." They learned a lot. With that said, perhaps the craft was supposed to be part of the lesson and to aid retention.

 

Of course, it's odd that your kids can't remember what the point of the craft was...but that could have been for any number of reasons (they were distracted because they were in a new environment, the craft didn't properly reflect the lesson, they weren't taught a lesson!).

 

Bottom line:

 

Just because they did a craft doesn't mean that there wasn't a lesson.

Sit in on a class to see for yourself. (And know that sometimes when a parent is there, the kids get extra goofy showing off.)

Edited November 15, 2010 by Garga

[Daisy]

Our children attend the main service with us. I want them to actually hear the Word of God preached and worship corporately, and not be entertained. We let them go to children's classes until they are in first grade, then they join us for the service.

 

They have plenty of opportunities to have "fun" with church kids at picnics, special events, camp, etc.

 

I taught the 3-5 year olds for nearly 20 years and yes there are times when that age group will remember the craft more than the lesson. That's why it is so important for teachers to communicate with parents what the lesson was about so that parents can reinforce it at home (at the very least). However, by ages 9 and 10, children should be engaged in serious Bible study or joining the adults for worship, imo.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Daisy

[Daisy]

While all that sounds lovely, there are children who are not exposed to Scripture or God except once a week for an hour or two. Yet those same children are being entertained in the style of Spongebob and Hannah Montana and Mario 166-167 hours a week.

 

If Sunday school isn't entertaining kids don't want to be there. If they don't want to be there they are disruptive.

 

If Sunday school isn't entertaining kids won't pay attention. If they don't pay attention they don't learn anything. Then parents complain.

 

Parents like to see something tangible for the hour they have given their little darlings to the Sunday school teacher.

 

Many, dare I say most, kids are not getting exposure at home. The Sunday school teacher, just like any other group instructor, has to teach to the lowest common denominator.

 

Ahh, but this is a HUGE problem and not just with children's programs. The very things you have listed would apply to many ADULT church services. The children are growing up with the entertainment and want it to continue right into the main service. It is all about being entertained rather than worshiping. And as far as exposure at home goes, most christians are very content to get their weekly dose of spiritual entertainment and call it good.

 

Something has to change and I just don't believe that the answer is to teach and preach to the lowest common denominator.

[Daisy]

If you are serious about your children's spiritual education I would attend the program myself. Personally, I think elementary-aged children get the most benefit from being in the worship service with everyone else and would be highly disturbed if my children were doing a craft instead of hearing the preaching of God's Word.

 

:iagree:

[gardening momma]

We're teaching the preschool children's church this month, and have done it for a month earlier this year also. Our curriculum is set up so that the Bible lesson is taught in Sunday School, along with various other activities. Then in Children's Church, there is just a review of the lesson (mostly asking the kids questions about the lesson), which in my opinion isn't enough, not only for those who attended SS, but for those who just come for Children's Church. So when I teach Children's Church, I try to teach the lesson again, but maybe not exactly the same way it was done in SS. This week, the scripture passage that went with the lesson was so clear (no confusing language or concepts for 4 & 5 yr olds) that I read the story straight from the Bible while dh held the Bible lesson pictures up.

[gardening momma]

Many, dare I say most, kids are not getting exposure at home. The Sunday school teacher, just like any other group instructor, has to teach to the lowest common denominator.

I don't think that you have to teach to the lowest common denominator. That's like me only teaching preschool lessons to both my preschooler and 1st grader. My pre-Ker can actually pick up a lot of info from the 1st grade lessons she overhears. Similarly, I've found that if you raise the bar in a children's program at church, the kids rise to the challenge (whether it's scripture memory, behavior expectations, etc...).

[Mrs Mungo]

A lot of this depends upon what type of church you attend. In our church kids attend the worship service with the adults. They are released for children's church just before the sermon. The sermons in our church are message-driven, it is not reading from The Bible. The message tends to be geared toward adults. The children and teens have messages that are geared toward them. I wouldn't say they are dumbed down, I would say they are age appropriate.

[Garga]

A lot of this depends upon what type of church you attend. In our church kids attend the worship service with the adults. They are released for children's church just before the sermon. The sermons in our church are message-driven, it is not reading from The Bible. The message tends to be geared toward adults. The children and teens have messages that are geared toward them. I wouldn't say they are dumbed down, I would say they are age appropriate.

 

That's how we do it.

[Rosy]

A Sunday School lesson can be meaty and still enjoyable. In my class (1st and 2nd grade) the kids read directly from the Bible (the real Bible, not a kids version). They answer questions and discuss what they're learning. They pray for each other (and me!). We do play games and have fun, but we're there to know God better and by His grace that's what happens. For kids without a strong Christian upbringing as well as those who have been in church every week since birth.

 

While I definitely do not think it is the church's job to educate kids about God, I do think that Sunday School programs often will reflect the church's values. Do they value God's Word above everything else, or do they feel that fun/candy/pop culture is necessary to "make the Bible relevant"? In preschool, my kids would come home saying "we didn't do a Bible story, we just learned about ____" and not really understand that _____ was teaching them Bible truths. But by 9 and 10? Yeah, they should be able to tell you at least the basics of what they learned about.

 

Teachers have off weeks, for sure, but I would expect a solid Bible lesson at that age.

[Daisy]

A lot of this depends upon what type of church you attend. In our church kids attend the worship service with the adults. They are released for children's church just before the sermon. The sermons in our church are message-driven, it is not reading from The Bible. The message tends to be geared toward adults. The children and teens have messages that are geared toward them. I wouldn't say they are dumbed down, I would say they are age appropriate.

 

Ah, and our sermons are line-by-line through a book of the Bible so the kids have no problem getting something from it. We actually prefer it to them going to their own classes. This way we can read ahead for next week and then after the sermon discuss what we've learned.

 

Our last church was more message-driven and there were indeed plenty of times when I was glad the kids were not in the service such as when they were doing the marriage series, etc.

[mom4him]

WOW! I posted this early this morning and then didn't get back to the computer until after supper. I was shocked to find so many posts. I want to thank every one of you for taking your time to share your ideas, feelings and how the church that you attend ministers to the children.

 

My two are 9 & 10. We home church for almost 2 yrs and that was ok for the time as we needed that time for our bodies to heal. We then went to a church that was willing to work with us as far as chemicals. It was a major blessing. As time went on I realized that our belief systems were majorly divided and when I would make a comment about something that didn't exactly meet up with EVERYTHING they believed instead of discussing it the pastor would say something like, "This is what she is really saying......." I am not a fighter and did not feel I wanted my two children indoctrinated in a bunch of 'laws' that do not have scripture to back it. At any rate we decided to once again try to find a church that would be safe for us and that did line up more with what we believe.

 

I have talked to my two further and no there was not a lesson worked into the craft. I agree it may have been a sub. teacher or she may have just had an off day. My dd, the 10 yr old, would have picked up on any Bible lesson or even life lesson that was being taught. We talked about it at extent today and I don't thing there was one.

 

I am going to visit with the assistant pastors/youth pastors and find out the basics of what happens in their church.

 

In this church the children are in Children's Church until they go into the 6th grade. I am ok with that but would hope that there would be some Word taught during this time.

 

Yes we do Bible at home also but just like I spend time in the Word daily and still need the teaching/preaching of the Word, so do my children.

 

Thanks again for all your input.