Would you "force" your child to take piano lessons?

[snipsnsnailsx5]

I'm so frustrated with my 8 yr old son! This piano thing was his idea to start with. A couple Christmases ago he asked for a piano and piano lessons. Totally came up with it on his own, and no one else in our house plays piano.

SO we did it. We found a cheap used piano and signed him up for lessons.

 

He loved it at first. He right away showed talent for music. His teacher even said that he's very "musical". He memorized Deck the Halls for his first piano recital piece AND Rudolph the Rednose Reindeer.

 

The problem...practice!!! Its gotten worse and worse. Now we're to the point where he's in tears and crying because he doesn't want to practice. But when I threaten to cancel his piano lessons he gets upset and says NO. He likes playing the piano, loves playing songs, but HATES practicing. He still is very good, BUT because he won't practice very much his reading of notes is not very good. He struggles with reading notes. He is a play by ear person. In fact his teacher suggested the Suzuki method for him, but she doesn't know how to teach it.

 

SO...what to do?! Help! :(

[LibraryLover]

Since he seems to enjoy the paino, what about very short practice sessions? Say 15 minutes in the morn and 15 minutes in the afternoon. That's what our paino teacher recommends for young children. She also suggests that parents sit with the child at the piano to keep them company. Worked like a charm here.

[secular_mom]

Find a Suzuki teacher for him?

[fairfarmhand]

my dd asked for 2 yrs to take piano. She was 10 when she started and I told her that she will be taking them for at least 5 years. That included practice. The nice thing about it is that her teacher is VERY strict. If she comes in 2 weeks in a row without practicing, then she must write a paper. She asked to quit once when she was envying her sister's gymnastic lessons, but I nixed that.

 

Your son is very young. Could you use these

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0739015575/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002IDN68K&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0G7JHE6P4QB3FQF2QS8A

 

to help him learn his notes?

[FriedClams]

In our house piano is an academic subject - like math or language arts. I told the kids (mine are 9 and 8 and are in their 3rd year of piano) that they can have a choice when they turn 16. ;) There are never any threats of stopping lessons or any implying on my part that they have a choice. ;)

 

As it is a subject - they get it done or there are consequences just as if they did not do math (or did it with a terrible attitude). No piano - no sports, no tv, no friends, no video games, no nothing until piano is done. It's just like school.

 

How we manage practice time is that one kid gets it done before breakfast and the other at lunch. They both practice for 30 minutes a day, 6 days a week. We take Sunday off since it's so busy around here. They are accountable to me on a daily level and their teacher on a weekly level (she has them mark the days they practice).

 

Honestly - one of the main reasons I want the kids to take piano is to learn diligence and sticking it out in something they may not love or that does not come naturally to them. For me - having them stick with it in times of dislike is a very valuable character lesson. Also, with an instrument - there is no hiding not practicing - and I really want them to see that practice (work) makes playing better and no practice (no work) means you sound terrible. They are starting to get it now and don't want to sound bad at a lesson. [i have one kid who is naturally good at most things - so having to work and be challenged by his piano teacher is a really, really good thing for him.]

 

I will also add that while they don't have to LOVE it - I don't tolerate whiny or disrespectful behavior - so once my kids know the expectations and consequences, there would be an additional consequence if we had poor attitudes.

 

ETA - The note reading thing is hard - so we've had times where the kids just rad notes to me like they read Bob books to me as little kids. I pull out a song - and they just read the notes. When the kids get new songs I sit with them and they read through all the notes first thing. Like normal reading - it gets better with practice and the more time that he practices the easier it will get.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Kayaking Mom

[catz]

I "force" both my kids to take music lessons. I consider it part of our school day every day. It's definitely an academic subject for us too. Until academics are done, no one can do TV, video games, play with friends, etc.

 

A couple things ....

 

We do Suzuki piano with my son. It's great, but I wouldn't say it's ideal for just learning by ear. My son started at 5 1/2 and at 10 is able to read all his music. He's had 3 Suzuki teachers and all 3 of the insist on sight reading daily. So I'm not sure that will solve all your problems! It may make the sight reading piece more palatable. I agree with the comment comparing it to regular reading. At some point, it just becomes comfortable. And I do have a kid that learned by ear first. Now he's very balanced. It might not hurt to talk to some other teachers.

 

We practice first thing in the morning before we have time to think about it. If we have a morning activity, we get up earlier. If he's at an early level yet, it's pretty easy to get quite a bit done in 15-20 minutes a day. We also practice 6 days a week, so it's impossible to get out of the habit. There's no optional about it. I sit with both my kids most of the time. We joke and play games with it. I love music, so that makes it easier for me to be involved!

 

I find that after about a month of getting into the habit of something (like early morning music practice), it becomes 2nd nature for all of us.

 

 

Honestly - one of the main reasons I want the kids to take piano is to learn diligence and sticking it out in something they may not love or that does not come naturally to them. For me - having them stick with it in times of dislike is a very valuable character lesson. Also, with an instrument - there is no hiding not practicing - and I really want them to see that practice (work) makes playing better and no practice (no work) means you sound terrible. They are starting to get it now and don't want to sound bad at a lesson. [i have one kid who is naturally good at most things - so having to work and be challenged by his piano teacher is a really, really good thing for him.]

 

 

 

This is exactly why we do it too! Academics are a breeze for my kids typically. They both need something that requires putting in the effort to show results. And now that they're both past that beginner level, they both take great pride in their abilities and love it. They aren't joyous about practicing every day, but they certainly don't ask to quit.

[myfunnybunch]

Practice has been a challenge with my ds until about now, at almost 10. It's still a challenge, but he's finally to the point that he practices reliably without fussing (too much).

 

Practice isn't always fun. I listened to a radio interview with a famous musician, and he said (paraphrase) "I wish I enjoyed practicing. I wish I'd practiced more." Acknowledging that to my ds made a big difference. Now we talk about practice as a means to an end. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's not but practicing helps make us better.

 

My ds just told me that what helps him the most is getting enough sleep, because practice is hard work, and getting enough free time so that he's not thinking about playing with toys while he's playing piano. Also, practice time occasionally given over to experimentation and doodling around on the piano keeps it fun.

 

I'll second some of the suggestions you've already gotten:

 

Sit with your child while he practices if you can. Sight reading, especially, is something that my ds and I do together, and I sit next to him while he plays.

 

Breaking up sessions into shorter chunks seems to help when my ds is struggling. We separated the theory (reading, rhythm, scales) from song practice for quite a while until my ds was able to tolerate longer practice sessions.

 

Piano is a part of school in our house. Our piano teacher says practice is like brushing teeth, it's just something we do every day.

 

I also really worked on finding that fine line between high expectations (both for practice and for behavior) and giving my ds some control over his practice so that it doesn't become too much of a chore. We really worked together to make sure he had some independence in practice but still make sure that he had my presence and support.

 

:grouphug: I do feel your pain. Make sure to talk to the teacher. A good piano teacher should have some practice tips for you too. :)

 

Cat

[fairfarmhand]

i forgot...one of the things we did was to purchase "fun" music. I bought my dd a book of Charlie Brown music. Your teacher can point out which music books will be appropriate for his level. She learned alot just trying to play the interesting songs she saw in it.

[Wildiris]

All four of my kids have or still do play piano. My youngest DD~7 does not like to practice and frankly gets a bit bossy about the whole thing, and we do get into a battle of wills. How I've tried to solve this problem:

 

 

1. We practice no matter what.
   
2. I allow her to pick and choose the order of play. There are days we do not practice cadences or scales but spend more time on other pieces.
   
3. I stopped timing practice with her. I try to get through as much as possible, paying attention to when she has reached the end of what she can do in one sitting.
   
4. I know practice is hard, the brain is working, juggling many complex things at once and a person can get frustrated until the music is found. I do not let DD~7 walk away until she has breathed a bit of life into the notes on the page. With that in mind,we typically work on a passage 3-6 times before moving on.
   

 

Reading notes is difficult. We've used Alfred's notespellers (may be too juvenile for your son. Amazon does have a Look Inside for this book) for elementary theory and music notation, and moved to Snell Music Theory books. If your son is serious about piano you might want to look for a Suzuki teacher or another piano teacher. DD~7 is better able to read music than words, in fact three of my kids could read music before they could read words. Music is just another language to learn. I wonder why your current teacher didn't encourage learning the language of music?

[fairytalemama]

Since he seems to enjoy the paino, what about very short practice sessions? Say 15 minutes in the morn and 15 minutes in the afternoon. That's what our paino teacher recommends for young children. She also suggests that parents sit with the child at the piano to keep them company. Worked like a charm here.

 

:iagree: As a person who took piano by choice from 5th grade to 11th grade. I would try to break it into several short sessions until he has the stamina to stick with it. My very strict teacher required 30 minutes of practice per day for the first couple years and then an hour per day after that. When I was at the 30 minute level, I would break it up even into 3 10 minute sessions.

 

As far as learning the notes go, I would recommend going to a music store and getting him an age appropriate theory workbook for him to fill out as part of his school work. That will definitely help with reinforcement.

 

My opinion is if he's committed for the year have him finish it, but don't force it. He is really quite young for piano lessons still and there's lots of time for him to learn even if he takes a break. From my personal experience, even if you start later (I was 10) it all evens out in the end. My teacher taught a few of my classmates who started as young as 5. By the time we were all in high school, there was very little difference in our skill level.

[BigMamaBird]

I'd make my kid finish the semester then I'd pull them out. If they just don't like it you want to teach them that it's okay to not like everything but they do have to finish an obligation. If it was because they simply didn't want to practice, I would explain that to continue would be a waste of everyone's time and money if they weren't going to apply themselves.

 

I will admit that I'm an "I hate to practice" wanna-be violin player. One thing that ramps up my urge to practice is to watch people who are really good at it. I'll watch a clip or two on YouTube and it will really motivate me to want to practice and get better. Maybe an idea?

[AK_Mom4]

Practice can be boring. DD9 does her piano practice in the mornings - she does the 1st half of her math, then piano practice, then flash cards for learning notes (these are GREAT!), then the 2nd part of her math.

 

Often, I go sit in there while she practices. It makes it more interesting for her.

[cindergretta]

We don't force music here. I want my dc to love their music and their instrument. I have heard too many stories of people forced to play _____ and quitting the minute they were able to.

 

My two oldest started asking around 11 or so for music lessons. My 16 y/o ds has been taking guitar for almost 2 years and sounds like he has been playing for years! My dd (14) is just over a year into Celtic Fiddle and she is amazing. They literally had to ask for a couple of years before we committed (sorry - money is *very* tight for us) and we have never had to say a peep about practicing. They are on their intruments all the time! (We love listening to them when they don't know we are listening...)

 

Our 10 y/o dd wants to take drum lessons. But she is flighty and not very committed to anything except soccer. So we won't commit yet. Maybe in a year to two... :001_smile:

[tjarnold]

At his age, with two years of study under his belt, I wouldn't worry too much about switching to the Suzuki method. (I'm a Suzuki-certified violin teacher, for what it's worth.)

 

It sounds like one of the root problems is his gift for playing by ear ... Often, I see students with this natural gift become very frustrated with learning to read music. Even with a true Suzuki program, he would need to read music. If you both agree that he wants to continue to study piano, I would suggest you make a plan (together) to practice a certain amount per day -- perhaps 20-30 minutes. Because he is struggling so much with the note-reading, it would be very helpful for you to be involved at least for that part of his practice. But try to keep it positive!

 

There are many resources out there pertaining to note reading (for example, Music Mind Games or Theory Time).

 

Augh! I have a violin student coming in a couple of minutes. I'll try to chime in with a couple more suggestions later ...

 

Tiffany

[wapiti]

For us it indeed is another academic subject. An observation: when one doesn't practice every day, or even every other day, it becomes a much more difficult and much more unpleasant task. In this respect it reminds me of Latin - if we go too long without it, they begin to forget. We learned the hard way, of course, being too lax about getting practice done. Then I picked them up from their lesson and the teacher informs me that everyone suddenly forgot how to read music. Two and a half years into taking lessons.:glare:

 

I'd love to let one of my kids quit, who struggles the most with it, but he's the one who needs it the most. He has had issues with underachievement and perfectionism already - he needs to experience rising to the challenge, over and over again. I'm quite certain this is one of those things in life that is good for him, and he's going to do it. Period. Besides, if I let him quit, the other ones would want to also, because they all have bad days once in a while.

 

Unfortunately my presence is often required to get the practice done. DS has been known to pretend to play if I'm in the next room.:mad: I might or might not choose to use that vast cache of Halloween candy as a motivator (i.e., you get your Latin, math and piano done, which we are afterschooling, and you get a piece of candy). If it buys me a moment of peace daily for a while, then it's a good use for all that sugar. We still have enough to last well past Christmas, after all.

 

When there are tears, we break it down and concentrate on very small bites, like two measures at a time. Or even one measure if necessary, over and over again.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Math, reading, grammar, spelling, piano, history, science.

 

Piano is considered an academic subject here, also. I make them take 3 years of piano. After that, they can either add or switch to another instrument, but music is still required.

 

I sat with them to practice for as long as they needed it. For my dd, that was 1 1/2 years, for my son, that was almost the entire three years. He hated reading notes, and resisted tooth and nail. We did flash cards, and other reading activities, and he knew the notes. But, he refused to read them when he was playing. He'd read them the first time through, then try to play from memory. It was frustrating, but my goal was to have him learn enough to be able to apply the knowledge to other areas of music.

 

After their three years, my dd added guitar (still plays piano). My ds, who hated piano the entire time but was getting pretty good at it, switched to guitar exclusively. He adapted easily to guitar after all those years of piano and theory. He's actually an awesome guitar player, but he still resists reading notes. He'll now go to the piano on his own occasionally, but he much prefers the guitar. He may never play the piano, and may never read notes to play guitar, but I'm not sorry I forced him to take those three years (age 8-11).

[happyWImom]

My dd started to hate practicing, because even though she had taken piano for almost 2 years, she didn't know all of the notes & things. She basically memorized the songs, so that it seemed like she knew. But whenever they started something new, dh had to work with her daily. We got a different piano teacher, and now it's a whole new ballgame.

 

Not saying that's your son's problem, but because I'm not musical at all, I didn't really have a clue. I just kept thinking "Shouldn't she know this stuff by now?" The other problem, is that dd isn't one to say that she doesn't understand. So, the other piano teacher just wasn't a good fit. We've got a great one now, who asks the right questions, and has dd do her theory book during the lesson.

 

TMI; I guess I've got the babbles, today!:001_smile:

[Murphy101]

No. I'd make him finish the semester and move on.

 

It's called an extra curricular for a reason.

 

Of course, at 8, I wouldn't have enrolled anyways.

 

We very rarely permit extracurricular before age 10.

[mktkcb]

I recommend

http://www.practicespot.com/home.php

 

lots of great stuff, & ideas for practicing. The founder of the website has some great books as well:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Practiceopedia-Music-Students-Illustrated-Practicing/dp/0958190534/ref=pd_sim_b_28

 

http://www.amazon.com/Until-Youve-Done-Your-Practice/dp/064640265X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_a

[snipsnsnailsx5]

He'd read them the first time through, then try to play from memory.

 

Yep, this is my son totally. All of his recital songs he's learned by notes first, but then just memorized it.

 

Thanks so much everyone for the advice!

 

His piano teacher has him using Piano Adventures- Technique, Performance, Theory, and Lessons- and he's almost done with level 1 now. He started with the Primer level. His two yr anniversary of taking piano lessons is actually this summer - July.

 

Anyway, we just got back from his weekly lesson. He loves his lessons, he loves his teacher, and he loves playing the piano. Even the threat of taking away lessons makes him upset. He just detests practicing!! :(

 

It does help if I'm sitting with him, but I don't know what I'm doing either! lol

 

I really like the suggestions given. If I sit with him it does go better.

I think we'll try the flashcards. Also his teacher suggested a website - http://www.musictheory.net

 

Thanks SO much for all the responses!! :)

[Cindyz]

In our house piano is an academic subject - like math or language arts. I told the kids (mine are 9 and 8 and are in their 3rd year of piano) that they can have a choice when they turn 16. ;) There are never any threats of stopping lessons or any implying on my part that they have a choice. ;)

 

As it is a subject - they get it done or there are consequences just as if they did not do math (or did it with a terrible attitude). No piano - no sports, no tv, no friends, no video games, no nothing until piano is done. It's just like school.

 

 

 

:iagree: This is exactly how we view it. It's required. My son does Suzuki and loves it. It does require that that parent learn right along with the child (my husband does it), and you are an integral part of the practices. My husband is standing with him the entire time he's practicing to correct mistakes and to teach.

 

My son does 30 minutes of piano practice every day. Routine and consistency is KEY! When we slacked, piano practice was a fight every time. The more consistent we are, the more he willingly practices without complaint and enjoys it. :)

[snipsnsnailsx5]

Oh and the suggestion to watch YouTube videos of performances - yes that helps too! He LOVES to watch Youtube videos of piano performances. He'll watch them for hours.

 

It started with Emily Bear - if anyone watches the Ellen show, she was on there twice I think? But she's been on other shows. She's a little piano prodigy and the same age as my son. He has a major crush on her and whenever he sees her play, he gets all fired up to practice and tries to write his own songs. lol