Conerned about my terrible speller

[Jenny in GA]

My husband and I are concerned about our nine and a half year old, who has always been an awful speller.

 

She took the CAT and scored in the 25% percentile for spelling (although she was 70% or higher in every other area.)

 

She made a "morning chart" for herself yesterday and, while I was thrilled that she would make a chart on her own, I was dismayed to read the actual listings, which unfortunately is typical for her:

 

cler tabl

tack showr

get drest

clen room

 

This is from a girl who is in fourth grade!! It looks like a 5 year old wrote it!

 

She has been in WWE for over half a year (we spent about 2 months in Level One, then moved to Level Two, which she is still in), and we started doing All About Spelling in the spring of her second grade year. (She is in the beginning of AAS Level 3.)

 

She reads books that are about a fourth grade level, and doesn't appear to struggle with reading.

 

Several months ago, my husband had said to me, "Either you're doing a really lousy job telling her spelling, or she has some sort of learning disability." At the time I didn't think it was either one, but now I'm starting to wonder.

 

What does anyone think of this? Should I have her tested by someone for something?? Switch spelling programs?

 

(BTW, she can pretty easily explain the rules and "key cards" and such from AAS. It's just the application that gets her. Yesterday I was amazed that during her spelling lesson, she spelled "by" b-i-y.)

 

I've heard that some people are awful spellers no matter what. But it seems like spelling this poorly is really going to hamper her and make things difficult for her.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Jenny

[patchfire]

She sounds like my daughter. :)

 

DD has improved greatly over the last months, though spelling is never going to be easy for her. We have used AAS but, as you say, application of the material learned does not always follow.

 

What changed? We had her evaluated by a developmental optometrist and she did nine months of vision therapy. We used Dr. Cook - there aren't a ton of them around, and we are lucky enough to live very close to his office. If nothing else, take a look at the screening and see if anything 'clicks' - for us, it was seeing that yes, there WAS a connection between some of her gross motor 'quirks' and her spelling - disparate issues that we hadn't grouped in the same category at all.

 

The other thing I would encourage is improving typing accuracy & speed. Not everything in life can be typed, but typing some things makes dd's life easier.

[EKS]

My son is dyslexic and he used to spell like that.

[Jenny in GA]

My son is dyslexic and he used to spell like that.

 

 

So what did you do?? What do you suggest?

Jenny

[EKS]

I'm not exactly sure what helped, but I can tell you what we've done that could have contributed something (n the order in which they were tried).

 

Audiblox

Vision therapy

Sequential Spelling (in grades 4-7)

All About Spelling (levels 1-4 in grade 8)

Using a word processor for most written work

 

ETA: His spelling isn't overly great now, but it's much better than it was.

Edited October 26, 2010 by EKS

[mytwomonkeys]

my daughter is newly 9 (in grade 3) and spells some words like that too, but is slowly coming out of it. her spelling is below grade level though, and my goal is to really focus on that this year (although she is improving leaps and bounds just from last year). we have also completed a few levels of AAS, and that was wonderful for her!

 

honestly, the main thing that has helped her is my expectations with her writing. by that, i mean she is writing daily & not just with WWE. i feel this has been the biggest help with her spelling, because she is getting a lot more practice. i also switched her spelling to dictation only. my daughter is good with memorizing lists, but in the context of using those same words in a sentence, she will revert back to spelling it wrong. i've been making up my own dictation sentences, but i'm waiting for simply spelling to arrive (i'll rotate it with megawords 1, which we started last week). i chose simply spelling, because it also reviews spelling rules... but we'll see how it actually works once we get it. if it's a bust, i'll return to making up my own sentences using the 1,000 most frequently used words (listed online). my daughter also reads very well. it's just spelling that has proven to be difficult.

 

when i look at my own work from grade 3 though, my spelling was rather poor...so that makes me feel better. i believe with practice, she will get it.

 

hang in there. hugs.

[*~Tina~*]

I have a dd who is dyslexic as well. Her writing looked just like that too.

 

Surprisingly, children often have a deficit at the phonological processing level, so it's important to start at the beginning when spelling is lacking for unknown reasons.

 

I recommend you use a program that teaches the structure of language - hearing individual sounds, syllables, phoneme-grapheme connection, and so on.

 

While it's hard to believe that the more complex path of instruction would be helpful, it actually is! Children who don't do well with visual memory of words, often improve a great deal when they learn the physical structure and how to apply it.

 

AAS is a great place to start. Be sure to do it with fideltiy :) Once through that, you may want to followup with Megawords as it will reinforce and continue teaching the same process.

 

Spelling is difficult to remediate, so patiently expect that it will take time and effort, but results will come!

 

I have a yahoo group here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeartofReading/

 

that has lots of files and activities that you could check out to see if it gives you any insight into her struggle.

 

I think there are a couple of posts on my blog and an AAS review as well.

 

Blessings,

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Tina ~

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

http://seasonsoflearning.blogspot.com/

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[mytwomonkeys]

here's some info (and even has ideas for free testing) regarding dyslexia. might be worth looking at???

 

http://www.dyslexia.org/diagnostic.shtml

[Jenny in GA]

This is exactly what my ds's spelling looked like a couple of years ago. He was eventually diagnosed as dyslexic. I strongly suggest you have your dd screened for a learning disability.

 

 

Oh my gosh, I can't believe that people say it sounds like she may be dyslexic.

 

What does that mean, exactly? How is it treated? Would she be better off at school where teachers have training about this kind of things specifically?

 

Who do I go to to have her tested, and what happens next if she does have a disability??

 

Thanks so much

Jenny

[merry gardens]

...She made a "morning chart" for herself yesterday and, while I was thrilled that she would make a chart on her own, I was dismayed to read the actual listings, which unfortunately is typical for her:

 

cler tabl

tack showr

get drest

clen room

 

This is from a girl who is in fourth grade!! It looks like a 5 year old wrote it!

 

The good news is these are phonetic spelling mistakes! I have a child with dylexia. I understand the concerns about phonological processing others raised, but the fact that your daughter spelled these words somewhat phonetically is a good sign that she's hearing the sounds within words. (There might be other spelling mistakes you didn't post that would indicate problems with phonemic awareness, but these spellings don't.)

 

 

She put the "a" in "take" but silent "e" wasn't there. She heard the "e" in clean, but not the silent "a" that's part of the vowel team. She's missing rules about how to make a vowel say its name. She missed the rule "every syllable has a vowel", but the vowels she missed are virtually silent in "le" "er" "ed". I suggest you work on the rules about silent vowels further.

 

You might look into a program like "Seeing Stars" by Lindamood-Bell. It helps build a visual memory for spelling common words, in addition to other things like phonemic awareness.

Edited October 26, 2010 by merry gardens
spelling :)

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[*~Tina~*]

The good news is these are phonetic spelling mistakes! I have a child with dylexia. I understand the concerns about phonological processing others raised, but the fact that your daughter spelled these words somewhat phonetically is a good sign that she's hearing the sounds within words. (There might be other spelling mistakes you didn't post that would indicate problems with phonemic awareness, but these spellings don't.)

 

 

Good point Merry. My comment in that regard was more "generally speaking" but in doing many assessments over the years, I've often found "surprise" deficits that weren't overt or expected, so I think when you begin searching for a root cause to spelling and/or reading difficulties, it's always best to start at the foundational level.

 

Considering only the short list provided - there are phonetic spellings, but again learning the structure and rules governing language will probably be the best route to rememdiation.

 

I would not recommend a program like Seeing Stars in this case, as I think it is best suited for someone with a capacity for strong visual memory - an area struggling spellers often don't excel in.

 

Oh my goodness, NO! She would not "be better off at school where teachers have training about this kind of thing" !! Do not panic. Dyslexia (if that's what it is) is not a dirty word; it is a problem that can be addressed and remediated. With proper intervention, dyslexics are just. fine.

 

Deep breaths. Head over to the Special Needs board and start looking around. Do a search for dyslexia there. Many of us have shared our "what do I do now?" stories including how, when, and where to test, as well as what to do next once you get a diagnosis. :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

 

Blessings,

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Tina ~

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

http://seasonsoflearning.blogspot.com/

[Carol in Cal.]

My DD was like this.

She was a great reader and composer, and a terrible speller.

 

She was convinced that spelling correctly was very difficult and not all that important.

 

The things that really helped her were: I made her do copywork and it had to be perfect or redone. This forced her to pay attention to actual spelling and punctuation in a model. Conversely, I did not make her correct every single paper she wrote, or she would write short, simple stuff that was unworthy of her composing skills. I corrected her content and wording but not spelling. She also used Phonetic Zoo--the audio component was key. It was also very helpful to her to realize that she could spell well in German--it's more phonetic than English, and she was learning to speak, read, and write it at the same time, so she naturally picked up the spelling. Once she realized that she was actually capable of spelling well, she started to try to do that in English as well. Overall this was a long process, and at 14 she still makes mistakes, but she is SO much better than she was.

[NineChoirs]

I agree with Merry! Those are phonetic misspellings and very unlikely to indicate dyslexia. Especially since she doesn't seem to have a problem with reading.

 

My daughter was a really terrible speller. I was very upset about it. She had been a part of an experimental pre-school program that had taught her to read using only sight words. That may have been the problem, or at least a contribution.

 

My husband thought I should just buy her a word processor and be done with it. He is also a terrible speller. He is, however, a phenomenal writer. He started using a word processor in his teens and never looked back. This doesn't save him from mixing up words like "loose" & "lose". I take spelling seriously. I can & do edit my husband's articles and writings. But I would prefer for my daughter to be able to fix her own work.

 

But after 3 years of trying every spelling program available, I finally gave up the idea of a "magic program". I didn't however let her get away with it. Part of me suspected she wasn't really trying. She is alot like her dad and pretty carefree. So I decided to work on making her care. I dropped all spelling programs and word lists. I increased writing exercises in all other subjects. Anytime she would misspell a word in any subject she would lose points. I would make her find the correct spelling and write the word out five times. I would not help her figure out the correct spelling by giving her the first couple of letters. She was forced to figure out the sounds and spellings on her own.

 

When we first started this it was very difficult. There were meltdowns, temper tantrums, and stubborn refusals. But I stayed strong. I figured if she never learned to spell then she would only have herself to blame. I was not going to make it easy on her. It took less than a year to see a complete turn around in her spelling. She has become a really good speller. And her vocabulary and writing skills have drastically improved. She is in 7th grade and easily writing at a high school level.

 

I no longer make her write misspelled words 5 times each, she just has to fix them. I also have her working through the Catholic National Reader New Speller and Word Book. That little book is amazing, I just found it this year. It has everything you ever needed to know about spelling in one little book. You could start using it as soon as a child learned to read until the day they graduated from High School. It covers spelling, phonics, dictation, copy work, rules, roots & prefixes, trouble words.... everything really, in only 148 pages. It is very Catholic. If you would prefer not to use a Catholic text, I encourage you to try & find a non Catholic equivalent. I am not sure if one exists.

 

So my recommendation is to drop the spelling programs. They might just be making it worse. Kind of like how forcing a kid to eat cold peas, is a good way to make sure they will always hate peas. Instead just keep on her about taking pride in the quality of her work. Make her fix her mistakes. Praise her when she figures out the correct spellings on her own.

 

You will also see her dictionary skills increase. My daughter is now a wiz at finding words in the dictionary or encyclopedia. This is a good way to build research skills, forcing her to find the correct spellings for her words will help prepare her for finding more complex information later on. At times that my daughter would be having a really hard time finding a word in the dictionary (because she couldn't figure out the first 3 letters) she would often try to find the word in other books where she thought it might be found. This was an unexpected bonus teaching opportunity. I was very happy with how well it all worked.

 

And remember, my daughter was spelling almost exactly like your daughter until the 6th grade. Now she spells well enough to do high school level work without a spell checker. You just need it to "click". There is still plenty of time left!

 

Hope this helps!

[holdoll]

cler tabl

tack showr

get drest

clen room

Jenny

 

My youngest dd spelled exactly like this. We used to use ACSI Spellings books and then Spelling Power. Neither worked. Then I switched to Mega Words. It teaches spelling rules with syllables. Her spelling has improved dramatically. It is definitely a slow process. We're on the second book in the series and I am finally seeing improvement in all of her work.

[NineChoirs]

Just to clarify, the speller I mentioned is only helpful now. If I had tried to use it before, it would have been pointless. Now that she actually takes spelling seriously, she sees it as being helpful. Previously to her caring, she would have only seen it as busywork.

 

But now that she actually does care, it is an excellent way to quickly catch up on all the spelling rules, helps & aids that she had always ignored.

[deeinfl]

I didn't read the rest of the posts, so sorry if this is repeated. I wanted to share with you that my son used to read very well, but spell horribly. He is definitely mildly dyslexic. A trait that has been passed down to a few of my kids from their father's side.

 

This child NEVER got or understood phonics, and still doesn't. He successfully completed 3 Sequential Spelling books and still spells "beginning" incorrectly. He also successfully finished all 8 level of Megawords and that combined with Sequential Spelling really did help.

 

Some children just never grasp phonics, so I had to show my son mneumonics (spell? sorry) and little tricks. He still struggles with i before e after c, no matter how many times I've told him the rule.

 

Luckily, your daughter is still young. There is time to remediate, and improve her spelling. My son is now in highschool and has improved a lot, but he will never be a great speller and that is okay. He still reads classic literature, loves books and can articulate many things very well. I have found many men in my adult life that are not great spellers, yet they are still the main breadwinners of the family and support their families just fine.

 

Your daughter will have specific bents and gifts that will surpass her spelling abilities. I once read that Dr. Robinson of the Robinson curriculum wrote that his children were all pretty bad spellers, yet these kids are considered geniuses with almost perfect ACT and SAT scores. Many of them are scientists.

 

I would work on the most commonly used words by a third and fourth grader and just start holding her accountable for learning how to spell those words in her writing. (start with about 5 a week and build them up to a comfortable pace) Also, start praising her for the words that she does spell properly--even if they are only a few. I used to get hung up on all the misspelled words, until someone on this board pointed out that I should start praising him for the rest of the composition words that were properly spelled. That was huge! He started to like the rewards for the properly spelled words and tried really hard to start to spell well.

 

I hope this helps a little! :)

 

Dee

 

ps Please forgive all of my errors as I am typing this at lightning speed while my son is working on his Easy Grammar (right next to me, of course :))

[MerryAtHope]

I agree that she could have either dyslexia, or a vision processing issue (check out www.covd.org for symptoms on that).

 

A few questions:

 

How do you use the daily review box in AAS?

Does she make mistakes like this when she is doing the words or dictations, or only in writing outside of spelling?

If you showed her these words (I wouldn't do this with her chart because I wouldn't want to discourage that kind of activity! but if you took the words separately), would she be able to correct them? Can she correct mistakes in the dictation without you telling her what's wrong?

 

Here are some things that we do (and my children used to spell just like this! Still see it sometimes. My son is going through vision therapy right now):

 

1, I use the daily review box A LOT. I don't move a card to mastered until they can say it/spell it easily, without having to stop and think. I review one set of mastered cards each week of the phonogram, sound, and key cards. Then on the 4th week (sometimes 2 weeks), I review all of the word cards that they have mastered to that point. Any of the words that they miss or stumble on go back into daily review for several days. Those that they know go into one more mastered review section that I save for when AAS schedules a mastered review. I also review all mastered cards from the previous book when I start a new book.

 

2, if my kids make a mistake in their dictation, I don't tell them what's wrong, I just say, "there's one spelling error in that sentence." I have them try to find it. If the mistake can be sounded out (such as "tack instead of take") and they don't find it on their own, I ask them to read *exactly* what they wrote. If they still can't find it, I say the word for them, "I would say 'tack.' Do you know how to make it 'take?'" Then after they correct it, I ask questions such as, "Why can't we use a CK here? What job does the silent E have in this word?" Or, to get them thinking more if I think they know, I'll say, "What rules apply to this word?"

 

3, Words that my kids miss outside of spelling that they should know, I put back into daily review, along with any related sound, phonogram, and key cards. I don't tell them that I'm doing this, I just do it.

 

Here's more on how to deal with spelling in the context of their writing.

 

Just some thoughts to get you started.

 

The standardized test may or may not have been an accurate measure of what she has learned. I wouldn't necessarily expect a 4th grader who has just started Level 3 to do well on one because AAS is not grade-level oriented. It's structured in a very logical way, and in the end (after level 7) kids spell at a high school level. But along the way, it won't always line up with a grade-level oriented test. It gets closer as you move higher up though.

 

HTH some, Merry :-)

[Jenny in GA]

The good news is these are phonetic spelling mistakes! I have a child with dylexia. I understand the concerns about phonological processing others raised, but the fact that your daughter spelled these words somewhat phonetically is a good sign that she's hearing the sounds within words. (There might be other spelling mistakes you didn't post that would indicate problems with phonemic awareness, but these spellings don't.)

.

 

 

This is all very interesting. Can you describe what the difference is, so to speak?

What I mean is, if hers are phonetic spelling mistakes ... what might spelling mistakes that are NOT phonetic look like?

 

Jenny

[Jenny in GA]

I agree that she could have either dyslexia, or a vision processing issue (check out www.covd.org for symptoms on that).

 

A few questions:

 

How do you use the daily review box in AAS?

Does she make mistakes like this when she is doing the words or dictations, or only in writing outside of spelling?

If you showed her these words (I wouldn't do this with her chart because I wouldn't want to discourage that kind of activity! but if you took the words separately), would she be able to correct them? Can she correct mistakes in the dictation without you telling her what's wrong?

 

 

 

I actually don't use the "box" with AAS specificially, because I find it cumbersome. But I do flip around in the book and re-ask the questions, like "English words do not end in ___." She always does great answering those, and also seems to understand them.

 

I also do each lesson at least twice -- about every five lessons, I go back and we re-do those lessons, but a little faster.

 

She does a lot better in the context of doing AAS. Even if she does make a mistake, she's pretty likely to catch it.

 

I think if I showed her those words and asked her to fix them, she would probably be able to fix at least half of them.

 

Jenny

[merry gardens]

Good point Merry. My comment in that regard was more "generally speaking" but in doing many assessments over the years, I've often found "surprise" deficits that weren't overt or expected, so I think when you begin searching for a root cause to spelling and/or reading difficulties, it's always best to start at the foundational level.

 

Considering only the short list provided - there are phonetic spellings, but again learning the structure and rules governing language will probably be the best route to rememdiation.

 

I would not recommend a program like Seeing Stars in this case, as I think it is best suited for someone with a capacity for strong visual memory - an area struggling spellers often don't excel in.

...

Seeing Stars is specifically designed to help develop and strenghten the visual memory for words. I agree with Tina that this child needs more work on spelling rules, and there may be other programs better suited than Seeing Stars for her, but I wanted to clarify how the Seeing Stars program works. The lack of a visual memory for words is one specific reason to use Seeing Stars--because it builds that skill. The instructors manual taught me how to teach that skill to my children. I'm using part of the Seeing Stars (along with Bartons--which is much more intense) for my terrible spellers. Seeing Stars helped (and is helping) my most dyslexic child to build his sight word vocabulary, which was previously very small because he has a poor visual memory for words.

 

If my children learn to spell the 1,000 most common words, perhaps no one will ever find out that they are terrible spellers. :D

[DianeW88]

Sounds like dyslexia to me. My dd is mildy dyslexic. She reads fine....her spelling is awful, although it has improved much over the years (she's now 17). Dyslexics will ALWAYS struggle with spelling. We've just learned to accept it.

 

Oh, and school is NOT the place to put a dyslexic child. If my dd had been there, she never would have learned to read, let alone spell. You are better equipped to deal with it at home. In fact, my dyslexic dd is a much better reader than most of her public school friends. She always tells me how happy she is that I never put her in school.

[NineChoirs]

This is all very interesting. Can you describe what the difference is, so to speak?

What I mean is, if hers are phonetic spelling mistakes ... what might spelling mistakes that are NOT phonetic look like?

 

Jenny

 

dose/does, siad/said, bule/blue, wores/worse

 

 

 

• word transposition - ‘saw’ for ‘was’

• word elongation - ‘exceckutive’ for ‘executive’

• letter omission – ‘intresting’ for ‘interesting’

• letter transposition – ‘saftey’ for ‘safety’

• digraph confusion – ‘nessecary’ for ‘necessary’

• homophonic confusion – ‘weather’ for ‘whether’

• word ending omission – ‘mention’ for mentioned’

 

 

Also with dyslexia you will often run into issues with copying, number writing, note taking, speech and organization, sequencing, laterality/direction. More information can be found here: http://www.dyslexia-plus.co.uk/dyslexia/education.htm

 

If the only major problem is bad spelling, then presuming that the culprit is dyslexia, or any other learning disorder for that matter, is a bit of a jump in my opinion.

 

Different children/people have a variety of strengths and weaknesses, that is one of the major benefits to homeschooling. The ability to support and boost strengths, while helping to overcome weaknesses, is a real gift to any student.

 

Also, as Dee said, be sure to praise for correctly spelled words! The focus at this point shouldn't be so much to teach how to spell, but rather to teach that spelling is important! Why go through all the trouble of figuring out how to spell a word correctly if no one notices?

[merry gardens]

This is all very interesting. Can you describe what the difference is, so to speak?

What I mean is, if hers are phonetic spelling mistakes ... what might spelling mistakes that are NOT phonetic look like?

 

Jenny

 

The difference is that phonetic spelling mistakes still represent the sounds within words with something that makes the sound in English, but its still wrong spelled wrong.

 

Non-phonetic spelling mistakes either leave off a sound or have something in it that makes a different sound.

 

Non phonetic spelling mistakes from that same list could look like:

"dessed" when the child meant to write "dressed"--notice the r sound wasn't represented

 

"sower" or "chower" for "shower" (sh replaces with s or ch),

 

"clan" or "cean" for "clean"--notice the 'cl' blend incomplete or silent a there but the vowel that says its name was left off.

 

The words on this list were all smaller words without many blends, so that she represented sounds in smaller words wouldn't neccessarily mean that she hears them accurately in longer words or in longer blends. It wasn't until my youngest son had a serious difficulties learning to read and I learned more about dyslexia, that I caught onto the fact that his older brother left sounds off longer words, especially in longer blends on his spelling tests. Older brother's spelling wasn't that bad on smaller words and his spelling tested average on standardized tests, but his non-phonetic spelling mistakes combined with his mispelling of some common words caused me concern once I caught onto it. I'm remediating his spelling with the same programs I use for his brother with more serious reading problems.

[MerryAtHope]

I actually don't use the "box" with AAS specificially, because I find it cumbersome. But I do flip around in the book and re-ask the questions, like "English words do not end in ___." She always does great answering those, and also seems to understand them.

 

I also do each lesson at least twice -- about every five lessons, I go back and we re-do those lessons, but a little faster.

 

She does a lot better in the context of doing AAS. Even if she does make a mistake, she's pretty likely to catch it.

 

I think if I showed her those words and asked her to fix them, she would probably be able to fix at least half of them.

 

Jenny

 

That's a good sign that she would be able to fix them. Anything that is either a rule or pattern that you have already covered, she should be able to identify and fix. If not, it needs to go back into your review schedule somehow.

 

It sounds like you are trying to compensate for not doing the review box, and that's a good idea. Review is a crucial component of the AAS program--that's where you customize the program to your child's needs. Kids who struggle with spelling (whether or not they have a learning disability) will need more review. Do you have a system for specifically identifying the words and concepts she struggles with and practicing those more frequently? You may want to develop some kind of chart you could use in place of the cards, so that you can add words/rules and drop them off when they are mastered.

 

The other component to the review box that may not be happening with the way you are doing review--I'm not sure from your description--is that the review should be a "mixed" review. It's one thing to review a list of 10 words where some or all of them follow a pattern, and it's another thing to have words mixed up where there is no pattern to rely on. That is closer to what one does when writing, and it's an important quality to try to bring into your review.

 

I simplified my box a bit to make it less cumbersome--I have only one review tab, rather than one for each kind of card. Here's a picture of how I do my box. Each day I just start off with the box for 2-5 minutes, and then I set the box aside and go to the book. It really does make customizing the review and doing mixed review easy, but if that doesn't work for you, try to find a way to duplicate the goals of the system.

 

When you get about halfway through Level 3, you will start the Writing Station where she will practice writing sentences that she creates with the spelling words. When we started doing these, my kids had lots of errors for us to go through (and I did it in the way I described in the blog post I linked before). But the more we did it, and the more we did the analyzing component that is added into the lessons starting in Level 3 (these get more involved as you move forward), the more they were able to edit their own work before showing it to me.

 

Hang in there!

 

Merry :-)

[Rene']

My husband and I are concerned about our nine and a half year old, who has always been an awful speller.

 

She took the CAT and scored in the 25% percentile for spelling (although she was 70% or higher in every other area.)

 

She made a "morning chart" for herself yesterday and, while I was thrilled that she would make a chart on her own, I was dismayed to read the actual listings, which unfortunately is typical for her:

 

cler tabl

tack showr

get drest

clen room

 

This is from a girl who is in fourth grade!! It looks like a 5 year old wrote it!

 

What does anyone think of this? Should I have her tested by someone for something?? Switch spelling programs?

 

My dd is 13 now, but when she was 10 she spelled like that. We started using Spelling Wisdom, book 1, and she greatly improved. Now for the most part she has very good spelling.

 

The main idea behind Spelling Wisdom is studied dictation. My dd copies the passage as part of her copywork, and she studies and identifies any words she does not know. She is to look at it, spell it, close her eyes and visualize it, etc. If she feels ready by the next day, I dictate the passage to her while she writes it down, then she corrects her work. If she feels that she is not ready she gets more time to study the words.

[NineChoirs]

 

The main idea behind Spelling Wisdom is studied dictation. My dd copies the passage as part of her copywork' date=' and she studies and identifies any words she does not know. She is to look at it, spell it, close her eyes and visualize it, etc. If she feels ready by the next day, I dictate the passage to her while she writes it down, then she corrects her work. If she feels that she is not ready she gets more time to study the words.[/quote']

 

 

Sorry to go a bit off topic, but thanks for that! My daughter is getting ready to start some pretty tough dictation assignments. Your explanation of studied dictation is very helpful. If she struggles with a particular dictation exercise, I think we will just redo it using the method you described!

[....]

My youngest dd spelled exactly like this. We used to use ACSI Spellings books and then Spelling Power. Neither worked. Then I switched to Mega Words. It teaches spelling rules with syllables. Her spelling has improved dramatically. It is definitely a slow process. We're on the second book in the series and I am finally seeing improvement in all of her work.

 

Megawords is awesome. I can't say enough good stuff about it. My daughter is working thru MW 1 right now.

 

BTW, those examples...that's exactly what my daughter's writing looked like last year and that's what my son's writing looks like this year. I don't know your daughter, but my first impression is that it's not dyslexia, but just learning correct spellings and applying them when she writes (and that is totally not meant in any negative or judgmental way...you should see our writing samples :tongue_smilie:).

 

We struggle with writing, so we are no means experts. :tongue_smilie: But, I've been really coming down on my daughter about spelling when she writes and she has dramatically improved this year. I mean, every single time she writes something, we proofread and correct her spelling. It sounds mean and tedious, but it's working.

 

I also have to say, I wonder if this is common...I was looking at a 9 yro's writing samples last week and his writing looked just like that too.

[razorbackmama]

Just to agree with the others - my dd used to spell exactly like that, and we will be having her tested for dyslexia soon. The tester saw some samples of her spelling (which, as I said, was just like the examples you gave - she spelled VERY "phonetically") and said, "Yep, she needs to be tested."

 

I encourage you to watch this video:

 

http://www.webcastgroup.com/client/start.asp?wid=0680831062670&auto=true

 

I think that's the right one - if it's like 3 hours long it's the right one. It is EXCELLENT.

 

Dyslexia is a challenge, to be sure, but it's most definitely not the end of the world, NOR should it be the end of your homeschooling career. (Don't get me started on dyslexics in the public school classroom.:tongue_smilie: ) I'm convinced my dh has mild dyslexia, and he has a doctorate.:D

[8filltheheart]

Another program you might want to consider is Apples and Pears. A&P was actually designed for dyslexics but is a good program for any really struggling spellers. It incorporates visual discrimination exercises, basic phonics rules (not to the extent of OG methods), and a morpheme approach (if you search the forum for Apples and Pears, I'm sure you'll find lots of threads on it.)

 

FWIW, you can view the entire program (every page) on-line. It is easier if you can see 2 screens at one time b/c you need to see how the TM and student books work together. http://www.prometheantrust.org/usshop.htm (just scroll down the page)

 

I have used it with my very horrible speller and he has made huge improvements.

[PeterPan]

Rather than randomly trying a bunch of programs, I would take some time and do some testing. A neuropsych can do the testing for dyslexia, etc. The docs at http://www.covd.org can do a thorough vision evaluation. If the eyes aren't working together properly (which DOESN'T show up on a regular 20/20 vision exam), then there's no way it can process the info properly. And Barton has some preliminary screening tests you can do for phonemic awareness, etc. You can't pick the right program or next step till you know what your hole or problem is. People have listed TONS of great programs here, but they're only great if they're attacking your hole. Personally, I'd go for the vision screening first. I've been told by an optometrist that most dyslexics turn out to have visual processing problems that can be corrected with vision therapy. That doesn't mean that's the ONLY thing they have going on, but it means a great program won't work nearly so well till you get the eyes fixed. Once the eyes focus, converge, and work together properly, then they can start working on visual processing. If their eyes aren't seeing correctly, it's no wonder their visual memory (spelling) is poor!

 

We've done all sorts of things over the years. We did SWR from K5 on, which I pretty much figure is the only reason she reads as well as she does. We did the brute force thing, trying to pound spelling in with lots and lots of practice. We did studied dictation, lots of dictation. But even though her numbers were ok (because of all this work) things weren't quite right. For us it was the vision evaluation by a COVD doc and the vision therapy that started opening things up. Now we're going back and starting over with AAS. But no program would have made any difference till we got my dd's eyes fixed. She couldn't even sound out words before. She would just look at the beginning, end, and guess! After two months of vision therapy she started asking ME what sounds letters made, how to sound out words, etc.! So we're really big fans of VT in our house. But even more so, I'm becoming big on getting the evaluations done and figuring out what you're dealing with. And no, school would not be better. These kids fall through the cracks.

[LUV2EDU]

Have your dd write a paragraph and circle the misspelled words. Then have your dd practice the words she does not know by writing a sentence for each word. Place all of the words she is having trouble with in a binder. Throughout the year, have her use the words in her writing. Seeing the words over and over again may help it stick in her long-term memory.

 

You can try Sequential Spelling, also http://www.avko.org/sequentialspelling.html

[Amy in KS]

This is what finally helped my daughter who was a fabulous reader (started reading at 3) but a really poor speller at 3rd grade.

 

Copy a few sentences every day. Place a dot between every syllable in each word. Mark every word in the sentence with SWR markings (underline all the phonograms and explain them as you mark them). It's much less daunting if you are just spelling the syllables.

 

For example:

 

Pray with me a little while.

Underline the ay in pray. Explain that we use ay to spell the long sound of a at the end of a word. Why? Because English words do not end in "i", that's why.

Underline the "th" in with. Say it slowly and move your finger under every sound.

Underline the e in me. It's long because it's at the end of syllable.

Underline the e in little. Why do we add an e? Every syllable must have a vowel.

ETC....

 

This is painstaking at first, but my daughter preferred it to the spelling lists and rules. She was great at memorizing lists and rules, but she never really applied it before.

 

After a couple of months of doing this, it is going so, so, so much better and I can dictate some of the sentences to her.

Edited October 27, 2010 by amy in ks

[razorbackmama]

Rather than randomly trying a bunch of programs, I would take some time and do some testing. A neuropsych can do the testing for dyslexia, etc. The docs at www.covd.org can do a thorough vision evaluation. If the eyes aren't working together properly (which DOESN'T show up on a regular 20/20 vision exam), then there's no way it can process the info properly. And Barton has some preliminary screening tests you can do for phonemic awareness, etc. You can't pick the right program or next step till you know what your hole or problem is. People have listed TONS of great programs here, but they're only great if they're attacking your hole. Personally, I'd go for the vision screening first. I've been told by an optometrist that most dyslexics turn out to have visual processing problems that can be corrected with vision therapy. That doesn't mean that's the ONLY thing they have going on, but it means a great program won't work nearly so well till you get the eyes fixed. Once the eyes focus, converge, and work together properly, then they can start working on visual processing. If their eyes aren't seeing correctly, it's no wonder their visual memory (spelling) is poor!

 

We've done all sorts of things over the years. We did SWR from K5 on, which I pretty much figure is the only reason she reads as well as she does. We did the brute force thing, trying to pound spelling in with lots and lots of practice. We did studied dictation, lots of dictation. But even though her numbers were ok (because of all this work) things weren't quite right. For us it was the vision evaluation by a COVD doc and the vision therapy that started opening things up. Now we're going back and starting over with AAS. But no program would have made any difference till we got my dd's eyes fixed. She couldn't even sound out words before. She would just look at the beginning, end, and guess! After two months of vision therapy she started asking ME what sounds letters made, how to sound out words, etc.! So we're really big fans of VT in our house. But even more so, I'm becoming big on getting the evaluations done and figuring out what you're dealing with. And no, school would not be better. These kids fall through the cracks.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[ElizabethB]

If my children learn to spell the 1,000 most common words, perhaps no one will ever find out that they are terrible spellers. :D

 

:iagree:

 

A good, cheap rules based program that teaches the 1,000 most common words is Spelling Plus. It has a companion workbook, Spelling Dictation, that uses these words in sentences. They are not literary masterpieces, but they cram a lot of the words into each sentence!

 

Spelling Plus:

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Spelling+Plus%3A+1000+Words+Toward+Spelling+Suc/014528/1288151580-653189

 

Spelling Dictation:

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Spelling+Dictation+Resource+Book/004554/1288151580-653189

 

Here are some spelling ideas from my website:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Spelling/spellingforsucce.html

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

I agree with Merry! Those are phonetic misspellings and very unlikely to indicate dyslexia. Especially since she doesn't seem to have a problem with reading.

 

My daughter was a really terrible speller. I was very upset about it. She had been a part of an experimental pre-school program that had taught her to read using only sight words. That may have been the problem, or at least a contribution.

 

So my recommendation is to drop the spelling programs. They might just be making it worse. Kind of like how forcing a kid to eat cold peas, is a good way to make sure they will always hate peas. Instead just keep on her about taking pride in the quality of her work. Make her fix her mistakes. Praise her when she figures out the correct spellings on her own.

 

You will also see her dictionary skills increase. My daughter is now a wiz at finding words in the dictionary or encyclopedia. This is a good way to build research skills, forcing her to find the correct spellings for her words will help prepare her for finding more complex information later on. At times that my daughter would be having a really hard time finding a word in the dictionary (because she couldn't figure out the first 3 letters) she would often try to find the word in other books where she thought it might be found. This was an unexpected bonus teaching opportunity. I was very happy with how well it all worked.

 

And remember, my daughter was spelling almost exactly like your daughter until the 6th grade. Now she spells well enough to do high school level work without a spell checker. You just need it to "click". There is still plenty of time left!

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

:iagree: This is my 5th grade son! He was taught to read using only sight words in K. They tried to teach him phonics, but he couldn't process how to blend in K, and the teachers felt he should learn to read by memorizing so he wasn't behind. I pulled him out at the end of 1st grade and we worked our way through Explode the Code, but he never could spell right. He is reading on grade level. I gave up on spelling this year and we have started making him look up words in the dictionary. I increased writing also with copywork and dictation, along with other writing.

 

Another thing that really help us was to get all of his reading books on audio. I did this starting in 3rd grade with books that were a little too hard for him. I think one book was Sign of the Beaver, so he had the book in his lap reading along while he heard the words on the audio cd.

[IsabelC]

Have you actually taught her the phonetic patterns in reverse? Some kids will learn that, for example, -ed at the end of a verb is pronounced d or (t), and therefore deduce that when they say dressed, it's going to be spelled dress with -ed on the end. But not all kids will automatically make the connection. These kids need to learn everything both ways.

 

My son is like that - he is reading very solidly a couple of grades ahead of his level, but he still makes basic spelling errors. So I do little lessons on the things I have noticed. I picked up that he has been writing -ck words with a c or a k on the end, so today we went over how the sound |c| is usually represented by c or k at the beginning of a word, but that we usually use ck to end a word after a short vowel sound, and k after a long vowel sound.

 

You can present this kind of stuff as "clues", so that instead of being annoying rules to memorize, they are sneaky little tricks we can use to help us find the correct spelling.

[....]

:iagree: This is my 5th grade son! He was taught to read using only sight words in K. They tried to teach him phonics, but he couldn't process how to blend in K, and the teachers felt he should learn to read by memorizing so he wasn't behind. I pulled him out at the end of 1st grade and we worked our way through Explode the Code, but he never could spell right.

 

Yeah. My daughter learned to read at ps using that method and it really does produce some horrific spellers. We have friends the same age who are going through the same thing.

 

My SIL teaches in a medical school and she said the kids who are coming into the program (over the last couple of years) can NOT spell or write well at all - and she's from a foreign country. She has to tell them, "How is anyone going to take you seriously as a doctor if you can't spell your own language correctly??" From what she was saying, she gets pretty irritated by it. :lol:

[Dawn in OH]

I was going to ask if your daughter had a strong phonics background because the mistakes seem to be mostly phonetic misspellings.

 

I have one child that's not very good at spelling (but a very good reader), but he has a strong phonics background so his misspellings look more like:

 

cleer tabel

take shouer

get drest or get dresd

cleen or clene room

 

Have you covered vowel digraphs or discussed syllabification? I'm just throwing out ideas here based on what I know about spelling and phonics. I have no experience with dyslexia so I can't offer any input on that.

 

I was just recently looking into spelling programs and I was told All About Spelling was supposed to be a really good spelling program as far as teaching in a logical order and understanding spelling patterns. Did your daughter struggle with spelling last year, or just started recently?

[crazymom4]

:bigear:

 

I've just enjoyed reading and realizing my daughter wasn't the only one!!

[8filltheheart]

II have one child that's not very good at spelling (but a very good reader), but he has a strong phonics background so his misspellings look more like:

 

cleer tabel

take shouer

get drest or get dresd

cleen or clene room

 

I was just recently looking into spelling programs and I was told All About Spelling was supposed to be a really good spelling program as far as teaching in a logical order and understanding spelling patterns.

 

Phonics rules will not address the many of the examples you posted. They would address dressed and possibly table via consonant le syllables. However, the rest are phonetically correct and do not break any rules and there is no way to determine which phonogram pattern to use other than memorizing which is the correct one. (for example, steer is correct, spleen is correct, gene is correct so it isn't as if those options aren't valid.)

 

If your child has a strong phonics background already and is still spelling this way, AAS may not help. AAS does offer multiple sensory input which does help some kids retain correct spelling. However, it doesn't necessarily. For my really poor speller that has a very strong phonics background, A&P which I referred to earlier in this thread is the only spelling program that ever improved his spelling.

[Nakia]

I'm sorry Jenny. That is hard. It looks like you have been given a ton of good advice, and I wanted to reiterate that you are not alone. My oldest (5th grade) is still not a great (maybe not even a good) speller. She reads at around a 10th grade level, and has no problem sounding out words. She has a strong phonetic background. We used AAS until the beginning of level 3, and she could recite every spelling rule without a problem, but when it came time for applying the rules, she couldn't do it. I finally gave up on AAS and switched to Sequential Spelling at the recommendation of several moms here. It was originally written for dyslexic children. It is based on word families and repetition. It has helped her immensely. I still go over the rules when we get to them, but I don't drill them in her head. I have no idea if she is dyslexic, but I have a hunch that she is, at least mildly, dyslexic. I have never had her tested, and I don't really intend to unless it becomes more of a problem.

 

Hang in there! It will be okay!

[ChrissySC]

Just a note:

 

I have a speller just like this. She is using Megawords. We are ex-public here. So, the phonics rules were not taught. Not to mention, she could define words that she could not say because of no rules for sounds, LOL.

 

Time to work on those phonics again!

 

Edit: Yes, she is spelling quite a bit better now. :) I thought I should toss this in here. She has come a long way fast, list four of book 1. We started isolating the sounds and looking to spell sounds and not words. This made the biggest difference, not to mention the lists with 70 plus words for examples.

Edited October 28, 2010 by ChrissySC