Having trouble deciding about Sonlight and TOG and WTM

[Nancy Ann]

Currently we are using Sonlight and have done a couple cores. I love Sonlight, I love all the great books. I love the fun books along with fact books and more serious books that I would probably never choose on my own. I really want to expose my kids to a variety of great literature. However, I don't use Sonlight science ( I use Apologia), the Sonlight LA is not working and so I am implementing WTM. I also find myself NOT using the Sonlight IG. The questions and summaries seem useless to me. Instead I am doing the oral and written narrations recommended from WTM book. We do the geography but I add A LOT more and I also add to the timeline because there is just not enough in my opinion. So, it seems basically I am just using the schedule and the books. I think this works fine for now (especially since I am adding in some stuff from WTM) but I can't imagine this working out later when my son is older. I really think we will need something more substantive than what Sonlight is going to offer. There just doesn't seem to be anything to it accept great books.

 

I may be able to continue to use the suggestions in WTM to give more substance to Sonlight.

 

I have also looked at TOG and really feel there is much more substance to that. We did use TOG when my son was 6 for brief period to study knights. We just did Year 2 unit 1 of the Redesigned. It was fun. We loved all the geography and the hands on. However the books were boring and even the books for older kids seemed boring as well. THere was too much factual history and not enough of the fun and great literature like Sonlight has. I also felt REALLY worn out after the 10 week unit. It was alot of work getting the books together and putting together all the hands on stuff. I really feel it will be too much.

 

Do you think beefing up Sonlight by using the WTM book will be good enough and does it work to combine these?

 

Can I use TOG and add in Sonlight books without it being too much to read in a year. Maybe do less of the factual history books of TOG and put in some Sonlight books. I don't mind if the Sonlight books exactly match up with what we are studying in TOG, there are just some titles TOG does not have that I don't want our family to miss. But just not sure if it would be too much?

 

Is there a way to make TOG more open and go and not so much work!?

Edited October 21, 2010 by Nancy Ann

[ABQmom]

I'll just give you my experience because it is similar to yours. I too have used SL. I only used the book list at first. Later, because I enjoyed the books so much, I bought a core (7). It was useless for us. The schedule was either too fast or too slow. The questions--we didn't like. The writing assignments were just that--assignments with no direction for how to implement them. So, we just read through the books and called the year good.

 

This year, I borrowed TOG year 1 from a friend. It's too much. I like some of what's there, so I end up cutting and cutting some more. Then I tweak and tweak some more. By the time I'm through with it every week, it only half resembles TOG anymore. So, I figure, why pay that much money for something I will less than half use. I really don't like writing aids. I do like map aids.

 

I listened to SWB's audios on literary analysis and writing, and I'm sold! This is what I want to do. Next year, I will use SL book choices to come up with my book list and have my dc write the WTM way. It's simple, and affordable. I can spend more money on books rather than spend so much on a curriculum that tells me how to teach the books. Oh, and you say you don't know if that would work when your kids get older? The reason I'm going to this is for my oldest who is in high school. The more I read about how others are implementing SWB's methods and the more I listen to the audios the more convinced I become. If you haven't listened to the audios, get them! They are worth every penny.

[tjarnold]

I've had a similar experience with Sonlight. When we first started out with Core 1, it was an excellent fit for us. My kids and I loved the books, reading aloud, and so on. But over the years, we've used the IG less and less, and I've never been thrilled with the LA or Science (except as a book list).

 

I've checked out TOG and decided that it's way too complicated for my use. Of course, for some, it works wonderfully, but with my children and my personality, I just don't think it would work.

 

I'm also leaning a lot more on SWB's literary analysis suggestions lately. I do use IEW for writing (and love it), but I'm investigating WWE to use with my youngest -- at least for a while.

 

Tiffany

[Nancy Ann]

I'll just give you my experience because it is similar to yours. I too have used SL. I only used the book list at first. Later, because I enjoyed the books so much, I bought a core (7). It was useless for us. The schedule was either too fast or too slow. The questions--we didn't like. The writing assignments were just that--assignments with no direction for how to implement them. So, we just read through the books and called the year good.

 

This year, I borrowed TOG year 1 from a friend. It's too much. I like some of what's there, so I end up cutting and cutting some more. Then I tweak and tweak some more. By the time I'm through with it every week, it only half resembles TOG anymore. So, I figure, why pay that much money for something I will less than half use. I really don't like writing aids. I do like map aids.

 

I listened to SWB's audios on literary analysis and writing, and I'm sold! This is what I want to do. Next year, I will use SL book choices to come up with my book list and have my dc write the WTM way. It's simple, and affordable. I can spend more money on books rather than spend so much on a curriculum that tells me how to teach the books. Oh, and you say you don't know if that would work when your kids get older? The reason I'm going to this is for my oldest who is in high school. The more I read about how others are implementing SWB's methods and the more I listen to the audios the more convinced I become. If you haven't listened to the audios, get them! They are worth every penny.

 

 

Yep, this is me too!! I will have to check out SWB's stuff. I have been homeschooling for 9 years and have read WTM about 4 times!! I always love it but find it hard to implement and so I go to the more boxed or scheduled curriculum. But now, I think I may be ready to do this. I am also not sold on doing WTM with a 1st or 2nd grader, it seems a little to formal. I also am a little concerned about WTM for highschool. My husband was looking it over and it seems WAY over the top to him. But, I think the dictation, narration and the outlining and other WTM ideas will really work. Now I am just wondering if I should purchase a Sonlight Core for next year or just put together my own books. I like the idea of having the books scheduled out for me..I just feel we are more likely to get through them than if I just made a list of books I would LIKE us to get through. We are using Sonlight this year and so I will see how well we do implementing WTM with Sonlight.

[Nancy Ann]

I've had a similar experience with Sonlight. When we first started out with Core 1, it was an excellent fit for us. My kids and I loved the books, reading aloud, and so on. But over the years, we've used the IG less and less, and I've never been thrilled with the LA or Science (except as a book list).

 

I've checked out TOG and decided that it's way too complicated for my use. Of course, for some, it works wonderfully, but with my children and my personality, I just don't think it would work.

 

I'm also leaning a lot more on SWB's literary analysis suggestions lately. I do use IEW for writing (and love it), but I'm investigating WWE to use with my youngest -- at least for a while.

 

Tiffany

 

Yep, I just don't see the IG's as being much use. Also, after reading WTM again this weekend I started seeing how just reading books is not really enough. I was trying to think why it was not good enough to just read books and have that be all the education there is to history and literature, because essentially that is what would happen with Sonlight. TWTM really helped me see the importance of interacting with what is read and developing critical thinking skills. Not critical thinking skills from a workbook but from interacting with literature, history and science. So, maybe adding WTM ideas to Sonlight may work. Except I am thinking it won't work for highschool. I think Sonlight is too light with their book choices for highschool. My husband was looking through the WTM book for highschool and also through the Sonlight catalog and said they were basically extremes. Sonlight had hardly any great books, my husband is very well read but hardly recognized anything. Than in the WTM he thought the expectations were too high and many of the titles he did not encounter until college. So....highschool is a ways off for us.....But, for right now Sonlight may work with WTM ideas. But I hate to pay all that money for Sonlight if all I am using is the books and schedule...but I also know I have a hard time without some sort of schedule made for me.

[TKDmom]

I'm on my 2nd year with SL, and I think I'm going to go back to WTM for history and lit next year. I like (most) of the book choices for SL right now, but I'm another person who uses it just as a (very expensive) schedule. I don't even follow the schedule all that closely, and my inner box-checker get very anxious about that. ;) We're going back to ancients, and I think I'll just pick out SL titles from Core 1 and 6 to supplement the WTM lists. If I get it all into HST+, I think my plans will be formal enough to keep me on track. It's going to take some work with scheduling, but I've got 10 more months to plan. :D

Edited October 22, 2010 by bonniebeth4

[lovinmomma]

This may be a really stupid question but I have been reading WTM (just the 1st grade sections mostly), and I've read it several times, but I don't see any literature lists that aren't related to history. Would that be correct?

 

ETA: The reason I'm asking is that that would make it different from SL.

[TKDmom]

This may be a really stupid question but I have been reading WTM (just the 1st grade sections mostly), and I've read it several times, but I don't see any literature lists that aren't related to history. Would that be correct?

 

They're in the section on reading (under language arts). I remembered seeing them when I first read WTM, but I had to hunt for some time to find them when I started planning last week.

 

ETA: oops sorry, I misread your question. No there aren't any unrelated to history. It actually kind of annoys me that the literature in the lower levels of SL aren't related to history.

Edited October 22, 2010 by bonniebeth4

[lovinmomma]

They're in the section on reading (under language arts). I remembered seeing them when I first read WTM, but I had to hunt for some time to find them when I started planning last week.

 

ETA: oops sorry, I misread your question. No there aren't any unrelated to history. It actually kind of annoys me that the literature in the lower levels of SL aren't related to history.

 

Good to know. I thought maybe I was missing a booklist with books like Charlotte's Web. Glad to know I didn't miss it!

[CarrieF]

Next year, I will use SL book choices to come up with my book list and have my dc write the WTM way. It's simple, and affordable. I can spend more money on books rather than spend so much on a curriculum that tells me how to teach the books.

Brilliant! I am definitely going to look into SWB's audios after reading your post. I have had an almost identical experience with SL this year (my first year using SL) and have been trying to supplement with SOTW and MOH just to get some "meat" in there for history. I think the thing I like most about SL (besides the great books!) is the schedule grid. Honestly, I think I am addicted to the little boxes and checking them off! So sad. But true! Thanks for the great advice/reminder about SWB's audios and actually implementing all the great stuff that is in TWTM!

[ABQmom]

Yep, this is me too!! I will have to check out SWB's stuff. I have been homeschooling for 9 years and have read WTM about 4 times!! I always love it but find it hard to implement and so I go to the more boxed or scheduled curriculum. But now, I think I may be ready to do this. I am also not sold on doing WTM with a 1st or 2nd grader, it seems a little to formal. I also am a little concerned about WTM for highschool. My husband was looking it over and it seems WAY over the top to him. But, I think the dictation, narration and the outlining and other WTM ideas will really work. Now I am just wondering if I should purchase a Sonlight Core for next year or just put together my own books. I like the idea of having the books scheduled out for me..I just feel we are more likely to get through them than if I just made a list of books I would LIKE us to get through. We are using Sonlight this year and so I will see how well we do implementing WTM with Sonlight.

 

Yes! Check out her audios. They are so much better than the WTM to me. I mean, just hearing her explain what she means takes the burden away! The WTM seems harsh to me--like I could never accomplish it all or even half of it and do a good job. But with her audios, I feel empowered. I feel relieved. I think, "That's it? That's all there is to it? I can do that!"

[Nancy Ann]

This may be a really stupid question but I have been reading WTM (just the 1st grade sections mostly), and I've read it several times, but I don't see any literature lists that aren't related to history. Would that be correct?

 

ETA: The reason I'm asking is that that would make it different from SL.

 

Yes, this is true. I guess with the 30 - 60 minute free time reading is when a child would read books unrelated to history.

 

This is probably another good reason to stick with Sonlight because it will offer these other books and why I like Sonlight. I am still concerned Sonlight for highschool may not have enough of the classical titles, but I am a ways off from highschool and I think Cores 1-7 are just fine to go along with WTM. But yes it IS an expensive schedule!! But to have all the books on hand and to have the schedule which I do use is soooo very handy for me! Is my time and feeling at ease worth $400??!! That's the question!

Edited October 22, 2010 by Nancy Ann

[scrapbookbuzz]

It actually kind of annoys me that the literature in the lower levels of SL aren't related to history.

 

I guess I'm going to be the dissenter here. I've used Sonlight more than once and have looked at/researched TOG more than once. I also own WTM and have read it more than once! :D

 

In regards to the above quote, I find quite a bit of the SL literature history-related. Perhaps you're looking at older lists? I don't know.

 

I don't 'check the box' every day on the IG but I love to have it as a guide, and I love the resources (notes, etc) for those days when I just need some extra help. If you don't want to buy it new, you can definitely find them used!

 

I'll agree on the LA and the Science, though; I'm not thrilled with those resources from Sonlight and so I use other things. But overall I love Sonlight and the way each subject connects with the other. My daughter was thrilled when we were in Core 3, when the Biology lesson mentioned Scripture we had read earlier in the day!

 

But I guess that's the wonderful thing about homeschooling, isn't it? You can be as flexible as you need to be!

 

For those that do not yet know, Sonlight now has the first three weeks of each IG available as a downloadable 'sample' so you can peruse it, print it out, try it, etc. And remember, too, when you purchase a Core, you have 18 weeks to really use it and decide whether or not it's for you. If you decide in that time, it's not for you, you can return it for a refund! That's a pretty good deal, I think!:001_smile:

[Nancy Ann]

But overall I love Sonlight and the way each subject connects with the other.

 

This is another good point for Sonlight. I have in the past just gotten the books from the library and it just didn't flow. But when I purchased the Core from Sonlight and used the IG schedule they really put all the books together in a way that I just coudn't. The way they put the spine together with the read alouds and readers just flow really well. I also agree with you about the reading corresponding with history. I think in the early Cores most of the readers and read alouds don't follow with the history because there are so many sets of readers because kids are just learning. Once Core 3 hits I think the readers and read alouds go along with the history pretty well. There are some that don't but that's because Sonlight also wants to stress the FUN of reading. Even in WTM book she mentions to also read for fun during the free time. Not EVERYTHING should be about history. So I suppose one could take these out and put them for your child to read during the Free Time Reading and substitute a history related fiction book.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Nancy Ann

[TKDmom]

 

In regards to the above quote, I find quite a bit of the SL literature history-related. Perhaps you're looking at older lists? I don't know.

 

 

I'm just talking about the cores lower than core 3. Once you hit 3, everything goes along with history. I understand how the readers below that level need to be mix-and-match, and I really do like a lot of the read-alouds.

 

I guess I have mixed feelings about it. I want more of the history books that are in WTM, and I want more great books, and I want the fun read-alouds, and I want to be able to choose my own fun read-alouds (ds has been asking to read Narnia books lately). Gaaa! So many books and so little time! :lol:

 

I think everyone needs to decide what will work best for them at any given time. Right now, I'm chafing under the restrictions of sticking to someone else's schedule. My ds read all of his readers for the year in 6 weeks. :001_huh: And I'm 2 weeks behind on read-alouds. :glare: But it sure can be nice to have that schedule and feel like you have a safety net. If nothing else, SL has given me some confidence and helped me to see how much more successful I can be when I schedule out books and buy them ahead of time. I think for now, it will just work better for me to use the SL catalog as a book list to go with my schedule and WTM rec's, rather than getting frustrated with my own inability to stick with their schedule.

Edited October 22, 2010 by bonniebeth4

[Nancy Ann]

I'm just talking about the cores lower than core 3. Once you hit 3, everything goes along with history. I understand how the readers below that level need to be mix-and-match, and I really do like a lot of the read-alouds.

 

I guess I have mixed feelings about it. I want more of the history books that are in WTM, and I want more great books, and I want the fun read-alouds, and I want to be able to choose my own fun read-alouds (ds has been asking to read Narnia books lately). Gaaa! So many books and so little time! :lol:

 

I think everyone needs to decide what will work best for them at any given time. Right now, I'm chafing under the restrictions of sticking to someone else's schedule. My ds read all of his readers for the year in 6 weeks. :001_huh: And I'm 2 weeks behind on read-alouds. :glare: But it sure can be nice to have that schedule and feel like you have a safety net. If nothing else, SL has given me some confidence and helped me to see how much more successful I can be when I schedule out books and buy them ahead of time. I think for now, it will just work better for me to use the SL catalog as a book list to go with my schedule and WTM rec's, rather than getting frustrated with my own inability to stick with their schedule.

 

What your doing is great! I would much rather choose our own books, like you said "So many books and so little time!" Yep, we all have to do what we can and sometimes that changes. Right now I need a schedule and to purchase the books all at once or it just won't get done. Maybe that will change someday and I can make our own book list for each year!!

[walkermamaof4]

We were in the same boat: own SL cores preK through 6! Never used the schedule except to have an order to read the books in, didn't prefer the LA or the Science as much as we tried year after year. Finally switched to using SOTW last year and really missed the lit from SL being right on the shelf waiting for us. Me and the library don't get along and just SOTW wasn't what we want, which is great lit.

 

So this year we are using BF as our basic schedule/frame/and spine books with SL added to it. We love it! We added in tons of fun books, pulling from book lists from Paths of Exploration, TOG, MFW, and others and I put them on a gutter shelf each week for book basket time. I stuck to mostly authors I recognize whom we enjoyed in SL. It has been our best year ever!

 

I think I need a main curriculum to follow as a guide for our overall schedule, but then prefer to add on fun books with it. Buying the SL cores means we can always grab their great book choices as add-ins. I bought all of the cores we own used, so got super deals on them. And I try to get the extras from Paperbackswap as much as possible. But next year freaked me out bc/ there isn't an equivalent BF for the following year. I bought Paths of Exploration used because I wanted to really check out its TM's carefully in hopes that it will be a better main guide for us next year. I feel so much more confident that we can continue to have great history years after this one! I might end up just using Guesthollow as my guide next year or Truthquest, but somehow their lists offer me too many choices, just like TOG, so POE or POS seems a better choice for my starting place.

 

Anyway, so much rambling! I hope it helps you somehow to see what others have tried after/in addition to SL. Blessings!

[Nancy Ann]

We were in the same boat: own SL cores preK through 6! Never used the schedule except to have an order to read the books in, didn't prefer the LA or the Science as much as we tried year after year. Finally switched to using SOTW last year and really missed the lit from SL being right on the shelf waiting for us. Me and the library don't get along and just SOTW wasn't what we want, which is great lit.

 

So this year we are using BF as our basic schedule/frame/and spine books with SL added to it. We love it! We added in tons of fun books, pulling from book lists from Paths of Exploration, TOG, MFW, and others and I put them on a gutter shelf each week for book basket time. I stuck to mostly authors I recognize whom we enjoyed in SL. It has been our best year ever!

 

I think I need a main curriculum to follow as a guide for our overall schedule, but then prefer to add on fun books with it. Buying the SL cores means we can always grab their great book choices as add-ins. I bought all of the cores we own used, so got super deals on them. And I try to get the extras from Paperbackswap as much as possible. But next year freaked me out bc/ there isn't an equivalent BF for the following year. I bought Paths of Exploration used because I wanted to really check out its TM's carefully in hopes that it will be a better main guide for us next year. I feel so much more confident that we can continue to have great history years after this one! I might end up just using Guesthollow as my guide next year or Truthquest, but somehow their lists offer me too many choices, just like TOG, so POE or POS seems a better choice for my starting place.

 

Anyway, so much rambling! I hope it helps you somehow to see what others have tried after/in addition to SL. Blessings!

 

I will look into Beautiful Feet. I was looking over the Sonlight catalog tonight and was concerned about the prices. An average of $450 for the 5 day cores for Core 3 - Core 7. Core 5 was $600!!! I may look at used ones as well. I have trouble with the library as well. I go in spurts where we will go regularly for a month and than stop and it gets all crazy and we get in a slump with school because I don't have everything at my finger tips.

 

I may also look at Truthquest again. I remember liking the looks of it before. Maybe if I just purchase the spines we will atleast have that to read and write narrations about during school weeks that are not going so well. It would be nice to not have to spend so much.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Nancy Ann

[HSMom2One]

A couple of years ago I was scratching my head trying to pull history, geography, worldview, literature, and composition together because I was sold on doing things TWTM way and had been piecing things together myself, but I had reached a point where I just needed some help with organizing it a bit better. It was about then that I started looking at TOG and Sonlight as a tool in doing that very thing. After narrowing it down to those two plans, I then got my dh and dd involved and we finally decided to go with TOG.

 

We've been using TOG for over a year now and it has been the best thing that ever happened to us when it comes to home educating. I feel that I'm able to combine TWTM and TOG beautifully, and it is not complicated at all. In fact, I find it to be very easy to implement. We love the variety of book choices that TOG uses, but I also feel confident enough by now to slip in other books here and there from the SL lists or even delete or substitute other books. We also use SOTW along side the core history books, and my dd loves it.

 

One thing I love about TOG is that the lesson plans are there on my shelf for me to use again up ahead when my dd is ready to go through the 4-year cycle again. I will need to get upper level resource materials by then, but we already have the plan purchased. If anything changes, I will be able to resell my hard copy editions because the resale value is so good.

 

All in all, I think that TOG is a great tool for families that want to follow the classical model. With the addition of math, science, grammar & spelling and foreign language of your choice, it's really hard to beat.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Edited October 23, 2010 by HSMom2One

[shanvan]

A couple of years ago I was scratching my head trying to pull history, geography, worldview, literature, and composition together because I was sold on doing things TWTM way and had been piecing things together myself, but I had reached a point where I just needed some help with organizing it a bit better. It was about then that I started looking at TOG and Sonlight as a tool in doing that very thing. After narrowing it down to those two plans, I then got my dh and dd involved and we finally decided to go with TOG.

 

We've been using TOG for over a year now and it has been the best thing that ever happened to us when it comes to home educating. I feel that I'm able to combine TWTM and TOG beautifully, and it is not complicated at all. In fact, I find it to be very easy to implement. We love the variety of book choices that TOG uses, but I also feel confident enough by now to slip in other books here and there from the SL lists or even delete or substitute other books. We also use SOTW along side the core history books, and my dd loves it.

 

One thing I love about TOG is that the lesson plans are there on my shelf for me to use again up ahead when my dd is ready to go through the 4-year cycle again. I will need to get upper level resource materials by then, but we already have the plan purchased. If anything changes, I will be able to resell my hard copy editions because the resale value is so good.

 

All in all, I think that TOG is a great tool for families that want to follow the classical model. With the addition of math, science, grammar & spelling and foreign language of your choice, it's really hard to beat.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

 

:iagree: We had the exact same experience. I was pulling my own history, geography, literature together and struggling to arrange them so that they complemented one another. My biggest problem was knowing when to quit on a topic. My poor kids never want to talk about ancient Egypt again! TOG helps to reign me in so we don't beat a topic to death.

 

Other advantages to TOG: Dialectic level students learn to be more independent with their schoolwork. And, yet mom is still actively involved in the learning because of the wonderful teacher's notes and the discussions. This is what really sold me on TOG as I was having trouble giving up reading our history and literature together even though it was becoming more and more impossible due to the needs of my younger DD and the length of the material in the logic years.

 

OP, you asked, "Is there a way to make TOG more open and go and not so much work!?" Yes. Use a history spine like Lucinda and I do. She uses SOTW and for my D level son in TOG 1 I use Streams of Civilization. They are both scheduled as alternate resources in TOG redesigned. There are weeks when my DS will only read the spine and not the other readings for history. It depends on what other schoolwork and extracurriculars we have going on.

 

Your other comment "We did use TOG when my son was 6 for brief period to study knights. We just did Year 2 unit 1 of the Redesigned. It was fun. We loved all the geography and the hands on. However the books were boring and even the books for older kids seemed boring as well. THere was too much factual history and not enough of the fun and great literature like Sonlight has. I also felt REALLY worn out after the 10 week unit. It was alot of work getting the books together and putting together all the hands on stuff. I really feel it will be too much."

 

It sounds to me like you were doing too much when you used TOG before. You have to be realistic about your time and be brutal in eliminating activities, or reading that you know will not fit into your homeschool. You really have to know what you want, what is important to you and your family, and make TOG work for you. I mostly bypass the hands on activities in TOG. They are wonderful, but so time consuming it is usually not realistic for us to work them in. Every once in a while I make time to do one. I would be exhausted if I did more than one every so often.

 

If the kids are a little bored by the history books in TOG, then use a spine for history. You can go back and forth with literature choices using some TOG and some Sonlight. There is a list on TOG yahoo groups that schedules sonlight books to fit TOG plans. The only problem I see here is that you would lose the discussion opportunities on the weeks you use Sonlight books. When I use a different literature choice, we still discuss it, but I have to make sure I read the book too. I think there are quite a few TOG users who sub with Sonlight books. Maybe you want to start a new thread asking them how they do it. That might give you an idea of whether or not you want to try it.

 

I hope your dilemma is over soon. I remember what it was like trying to decide.

 

 

Shannon

[HSMom2One]

Wow, Shannon!! Excellent points and well said. I could not agree more!

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

It seems to me that a lot of people are put off by TOG because they are looking at the whole picture instead of the customized sections that are taken off a bit at a time. Once I learned to look past all that, TOG made sense to me and became my best friend!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[StartingOver]

I love Sonlight and used the literature lists in combination with BF books, and TWTM with my older children. This time around i have Core P 3/4 - K now. So I will be heirloom soon, then I can just choose the books I want to add to TWTM. Everything else is WTM, LA, science, & etc.

[HSMom2One]

I just wanted to add something to this thread regarding TOG, and how it is meant to be used in parts rather than as a whole. Marcia Somerville, the author, states it beautifully herself:

 

Tapestry is a buffet table, if you will, liberally spread with delightful and healthy foods meant to appeal to a variety of palates. No one family will (or should!) use all the educational options that Tapestry lists on any one level for any one student.

 

I also meant to say earlier that the reading choices throughout the four year cycle are not all dry and boring. There is a nice variety of history books, encyclopedias, reference books of all types, classical literature, wonderful live history stories - many of which are on the SL lists, and also picture books. You really can't base your decision on the entire program with one unit's book list, and you can also supplement or adjust the lists as you go.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Mommyfaithe]

I'll just give you my experience because it is similar to yours. I too have used SL. I only used the book list at first. Later, because I enjoyed the books so much, I bought a core (7). It was useless for us. The schedule was either too fast or too slow. The questions--we didn't like. The writing assignments were just that--assignments with no direction for how to implement them. So, we just read through the books and called the year good.

 

This year, I borrowed TOG year 1 from a friend. It's too much. I like some of what's there, so I end up cutting and cutting some more. Then I tweak and tweak some more. By the time I'm through with it every week, it only half resembles TOG anymore. So, I figure, why pay that much money for something I will less than half use. I really don't like writing aids. I do like map aids.

 

I listened to SWB's audios on literary analysis and writing, and I'm sold! This is what I want to do. Next year, I will use SL book choices to come up with my book list and have my dc write the WTM way. It's simple, and affordable. I can spend more money on books rather than spend so much on a curriculum that tells me how to teach the books. Oh, and you say you don't know if that would work when your kids get older? The reason I'm going to this is for my oldest who is in high school. The more I read about how others are implementing SWB's methods and the more I listen to the audios the more convinced I become. If you haven't listened to the audios, get them! They are worth every penny.

 

This is so funny and much of my homeschooling years have been like the Goldilocks Syndrome. This is too easy, this is too hard, this is to boring, this requires too much work, this is too slow, this is too fast....

 

LOL!

 

I think if you try to combine 3 separate full curricul, you will drive yourself and your kids positively nuts...

 

I totally agree about listening to SWB's audios. Learning is hard, but curricula need not be complicated. The "work" is the works...KWIM?

Anyway, I use Sonlight for book ideas, I have some older Classical TOG units that I bought cheaply for ideas. I hardly EVER open these and I use Ambleside Online for additional ideas.

 

My spine is WTM. Susan simplifies the "how to teach" and her style just makes sense to me.

 

~~Faithe

[shanvan]

I just wanted to add something to this thread regarding TOG, and how it is meant to be used in parts rather than as a whole. Marcia Somerville, the author, states it beautifully herself:

:iagree:

 

Tapestry is a buffet table, if you will, liberally spread with delightful and healthy foods meant to appeal to a variety of palates. No one family will (or should!) use all the educational options that Tapestry lists on any one level for any one student.

 

I also meant to say earlier that the reading choices throughout the four year cycle are not all dry and boring. There is a nice variety of history books, encyclopedias, reference books of all types, classical literature, wonderful live history stories - many of which are on the SL lists, and also picture books. You really can't base your decision on the entire program with one unit's book list, and you can also supplement or adjust the lists as you go. :iagree:

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

My turn to agree, Lucinda! I liberally substitute or add more books in the literature category because I have very specific ideas about what I want DC to read and my ideas don't always coincide with TOG. I always put my book choices ahead of TOG when faced with a choice. I still feel like I get my moneys worth.

 

Shannon

[CoastalGal]

Good to know. I thought maybe I was missing a booklist with books like Charlotte's Web. Glad to know I didn't miss it!

 

Just wanted to mention that I was reading WTM yesterday and saw that SWB recommends Jim Trelease's "The Read-Aloud Handbook"...I think that books like "Charlotte's Web" might be covered there...

 

HTH! :)

[sewpeaceful]

We opted to go back to SL for these early years. Too much to plan with SOTW, book lists, etc with a toddler underfoot, an 8yo with ADD, and a gifted 6yo after a big move. SOOO, my decision for our family is as follows (we're younger, but it echoes what many other moms have said and may help you determine what you want to do):

 

History: SL Core 1 with notebooking added (my kids LOVE notebooking! - I never imagined this would be the case, but they do!)

 

Science: SL is too disjointed for 2 science/math/engineering geek parents who have come to embrace WTM philosophies. We opted for Elemental Science and will continue this. Logic stage biology is being released in the spring if y'all haven't heard yet.

 

LA: dictation spelling and R&S grammar (my 1st grader is doing FLL)

 

Literature: it is covered with SL for now, plus I continue to raid reading lists for my voracious 6yo reading well beyond his years

 

I think blending is a wonderful idea. The preplanned schedule with SL will do our family very well for the next year or two until the little one gets a little older.

 

The SWB audios are AWESOME. I have listened to several and echo the recommendations of previous posters.

 

HTH.

Laurie Beth

[Nancy Ann]

I just wanted to add something to this thread regarding TOG, and how it is meant to be used in parts rather than as a whole. Marcia Somerville, the author, states it beautifully herself:

 

 

 

I also meant to say earlier that the reading choices throughout the four year cycle are not all dry and boring. There is a nice variety of history books, encyclopedias, reference books of all types, classical literature, wonderful live history stories - many of which are on the SL lists, and also picture books. You really can't base your decision on the entire program with one unit's book list, and you can also supplement or adjust the lists as you go.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

I did do research and look at the future titles to TOG on the various units and various ages and was still disappointed in the titles. I know that I can substitute other titles but I think that will be really hard for me unless I have yet ANOTHER guide to give me suggestions for books. I do like the geography and hands on, but I also know that we always didn't have time to do the hands on stuff. So, I really question whether it's worth the money if I will end up switching soooo many of the titles and not really using some of the other parts. I also like WTM writing over TOG writing.

 

This is the same with Sonlight, if the IG's are not giving me any teaching instruction is it worth to pay ALL that money for a bunch of books that I can get at the library.

 

The money is totally worth it for both these excellent programs if you use the majority of the program. We all tweak a little here and there, but one does have to decide how much tweaking before it's not worth the cost anymore.

 

I have already purchased a Sonlight Core for this year and so we will use that, but since my re-reading of the WTM this past week I am going to implement her ideas with our Sonlight. I did toss the Sonlight LA and purchased Rod and Staff an Spelling Power. We are halfway through our Core since we started in the summer. I think when we are done with the Core I will purchase the TQ Middle Ages and spend a few months doing that and see how it goes without a schedule and without having books on hand. Than that may help me determine what to purchase for next year. I don't think TOG or Sonlight are completely off the table but like SWB said you just need some spines and a library card. If I can do that....that would be great!

[HSMom2One]

I have already purchased a Sonlight Core for this year and so we will use that, but since my re-reading of the WTM this past week I am going to implement her ideas with our Sonlight. I did toss the Sonlight LA and purchased Rod and Staff an Spelling Power. We are halfway through our Core since we started in the summer. I think when we are done with the Core I will purchase the TQ Middle Ages and spend a few months doing that and see how it goes without a schedule and without having books on hand. Than that may help me determine what to purchase for next year. I don't think TOG or Sonlight are completely off the table but like SWB said you just need some spines and a library card. If I can do that....that would be great!

 

I think you will do very well with your plan. It sounds like you have all the bases covered, and that's what matters the most. These programs are wonderful, but they are merely tools. There is no RIGHT or WRONG between them, we just need to choose what works best for our families and dc. And like you, I could get by with TWTM and a library card because I find that the best tool in the bunch is SWB's book! I just personally like it better at our house when I combine it with TOG.

 

I think it is really great that you are open to ideas. Have fun on the journey!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[strawberry]

I hate to pay all that money for Sonlight if all I am using is the books and schedule...but I also know I have a hard time without some sort of schedule made for me.

 

Bringing up an old thread! This statement sums up exactly how I feel, and I always buy used.

 

ABQ Mom (who said: " Next year, I will use SL book choices to come up with my book list and have my dc write the WTM way."),

 

are you formulating some sort of schedule for your booklists WTM writing? Do you have any suggestions for those of you who rely heavily on those detailed SL schedules?! :)

[texasmama]

The strength of SL (which we have used for three years now) is its history, literature readalouds and reading selections. The folks at SL do a great job (IMO) of putting together a good program which integrates the time period being studied into the literature readalouds and the reading selections. I don't use their comprehension questions. I disliked their LA and never used the science. I use SL only for the history, readalouds and reading selections combined with the schedule. We also use the poetry books.

 

For the past two years, I have bought a Core with history, readalouds, readers and the IG. (The first year I hs'ed, I bought the entire Core with LA, which was a bust for us.) It cost about $400 for this years' Core 4, as I recall, which I was able to spread out as an interest free time payment over six months. Not bad.:001_smile: I am using the schedule for my convenience, and I like their book selections for the most part. I could put together a program myself, as most people do, but I like the convenience of using SL's program. I have looked into finding the books myself from Amazon and buying only the IG from SL but found I saved no money. I choose not to rely on the library or half price bookstores for books. I like to own the books, as we will use them again for younger dd, and I appreciate the convenience of having them all at once. As long as this works for me and my kids, I will continue it.

 

That said, I use FLL and WWE as well as Apologia for science. In other words, I use SL for what works for us and other programs for the rest. :001_smile: I don't know if this helps you at all - just wanted to give our experience.

[texasmama]

I guess I have mixed feelings about it. I want more of the history books that are in WTM, and I want more great books, and I want the fun read-alouds, and I want to be able to choose my own fun read-alouds (ds has been asking to read Narnia books lately). Gaaa! So many books and so little time! :lol:

 

I think everyone needs to decide what will work best for them at any given time. Right now, I'm chafing under the restrictions of sticking to someone else's schedule. My ds read all of his readers for the year in 6 weeks. :001_huh: And I'm 2 weeks behind on read-alouds. :glare: But it sure can be nice to have that schedule and feel like you have a safety net. If nothing else, SL has given me some confidence and helped me to see how much more successful I can be when I schedule out books and buy them ahead of time. I think for now, it will just work better for me to use the SL catalog as a book list to go with my schedule and WTM rec's, rather than getting frustrated with my own inability to stick with their schedule.

 

My kids rush through their readers, too. I struggle to keep up with readalouds like you do.:tongue_smilie: I supplement with other books for them to read independently. We use the summers to finish the read alouds we didn't get to and also to read other books. We will start the Narnia series this summer.:001_smile: I stick very closely with SL's history schedule, but we tweak the rest.

[Nancy Ann]

UPDATING:

 

Things are not working with combining Sonlight and WTM! The books are just not even close to what WTM suggest. The more I read WTM the more I really want to include more history type books with our history spine. My son is also just not enjoying the Sonlight books either. I think I want to have Sonlight type books as his free reading time or as a family read aloud. Otherwise, I really want to have his school reading be more pertaining to what we are learning in history.

 

I think I am going to spend this week taking the suggestion to listen to SWB's audios. Also, I am putting up all the Sonlight books we haven't read yet for this year and am going to the library and get books suggested in WTM for history and literature.

 

For next year TOG is back on the table. I do really like the geography and I am thinking especially when my son is at the dialectic stage the thinking questions and projects will help get more out of our studies. I can see already that as my son get's older just the basic oral narration will not be enough for a discussion about the books. I think I will need some help with that and the questions in TOG seem much better than those in Sonlight. The TOG questions seem more analytical. I am also thinking I won't be able to get through highschool without something like TOG.

 

I will listen to Susan's audios and maybe that will give me the confidence to do discussion and writing on my own.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Nancy Ann

[TKDmom]

Nancy Ann, this thread got me seriously looking at TOG. And I haven't had any peace since then! :tongue_smilie: So, it's all your fault. ;)

[AngelBee]

UPDATING:

 

Things are not working with combining Sonlight and WTM! The books are just not even close to what WTM suggest. The more I read WTM the more I really want to include more history type books with our history spine. My son is also just not enjoying the Sonlight books either. I think I want to have Sonlight type books as his free reading time or as a family read aloud. Otherwise, I really want to have his school reading be more pertaining to what we are learning in history.

 

I think I am going to spend this week taking the suggestion to listen to SWB's audios. Also, I am putting up all the Sonlight books we haven't read yet for this year and am going to the library and get books suggested in WTM for history and literature.

 

For next year TOG is back on the table. I do really like the geography and I am thinking especially when my son is at the dialectic stage the thinking questions and projects will help get more out of our studies. I can see already that as my son get's older just the basic oral narration will not be enough for a discussion about the books. I think I will need some help with that and the questions in TOG seem much better than those in Sonlight. The TOG questions seem more analytical. I am also thinking I won't be able to get through highschool without something like TOG.

 

I will listen to Susan's audios and maybe that will give me the confidence to do discussion and writing on my own.

Thanks for the update. :)

[SnMomof7]

FWIW - Sonlight isn't that expensive :). The IG is only around 10% of the core price, the rest is BOOKS, glorious, wonderful, hold 'em in your hand and love them BOOKS. Ahem.

 

I love books.

 

If you plan on buying SL type books anyway, cores aren't bad. They are certainly more than a reading list or schedule, they're a huge box of books. If you buy used, a big box of books for a pretty good price!

 

TOG overwhelms me, SL is just right for us :). We do narrations, verbal summaries, copywork of narrations and from our books in SL and Apologia.

[MeganW]

I thought this was a really helpful comparison:

 

http://www.knowledgequestmaps.com/history.htm

 

Scroll down for his commentary

[johnandtinagilbert]

Well, I'm a TOG lover and I'll say one thing: the time you spent gathering and doing projects for younger years will change gears to your personal prep. time for discussion as well as simply doing the discussions. I think it's entirely worth the effort.

 

Having said that, it sounds like following WTM verbatum would be a perfect fit for you. It's a nice "in between" of SL and TOG, kind of a crossroads of both, if you will.

 

You can get the great books, keep everything pretty simply by following the writing recs. You may enjoy the Writing Aides assignments from TOG, though. It will offer some variety and a little guidance for the High School years, but still afford for a WTMish style to your day.

[ByGrace3]

so find myself spending entirely too much time thinking and debating this very thing for my to be first grader next year. I am so torn! Thanks for all of your thoughts in this thread, very helpful! (although I remain confused!) :confused:

[AngelBee]

so find myself spending entirely too much time thinking and debating this very thing for my to be first grader next year. I am so torn! Thanks for all of your thoughts in this thread, very helpful! (although I remain confused!) :confused:

:grouphug: Honestly, they are all great options.

Praying clarity in thinking this out for you.

[Mom28kds]

What is SWB & WTM?

[johnandtinagilbert]

What is SWB & WTM?

Susan Wise Bauer, the author of The Well Trained Mind. This sticky helps with abbreviations.

[SnMomof7]

Hugs Nicole!

 

You sound a lot like me over the past two years.

 

FWIW, now that DD1 is in the last half of grade 2 I'm realizing that history and science are really just gravy when you're spending so much time working on basic skills. They do add a lot of excitement and joy of learning, but are largely optional :).

 

Now that DD1 is reading well, and is a bit older, she seems to be getting much more out of history and science.

 

i just wanted to say that if you don't get it figured our for grade 1, don't worry, it's okay :).