x post Carson Newman Univ. won't accept homeschoolers w/o GED

[avdelp]

My daughter and I visited a Christian college fair at a local private school today. They had invited area homeschoolers. Out of ALL of the 35-40 schools that were there (including academically selective schools like Wheaton), only ONE required the GED for homeschoolers who are not under an umbrella school program.

 

Carson-Newman University insists that they need homeschoolers, regardless of their SAT/ACT scores, to take the GED to be eligible for admission. CNU's average ACT is a 22! My daughter received a 31 on her ACT and 4's and 5's on her AP tests and they still insist that she would need to take the GED. According to them, in order to be in "compliance with Federal regulations" they need an "official" transcript and diploma from an accrediting body. They said it's not their rule it's federal law. HUH????

 

We live in NC, where you do not have to be under an umbrella school and very few people choose to be. We have homeschool friends that have kids in colleges all over the country. Public and private. Some are even in Ivy League schools (Brown) or well respected state schools (UNC-Chapel Hill). Many of them receive Federal Financial Aid (I know friends whose kids are at Covenant College that do). How come none of them were asked to take the GED?

 

We live in Western NC, only an hour's drive from CNU. My youngest daughter might consider it, but NOT if she has to take the GED. I'm curious if this would be a matter for HSLDA. At best, it seems like a huge misunderstanding of federal regulations on CNU's part. At worst, it seems like discrimination. Thanks for letting me vent!

__________________

[gpsings]

I don't know, but I have heard from parents of high school kids that in order to take any college courses at any GA university, they must first 'drop out' officially and take a GED as well. Thus attributing to the high GA homeschool drop out rate. It's frustrating, and I hope HSLDA can help.

[cbollin]

I'd call HSLDA.

 

I'm reminded of a story a friend of mine tells about his son's application to Missouri Univ of Science and Technology about 4 years ago. MS&T was saying "homeschoolers have to take GED". Then, my friend's son requested to meet with the dean of admissions to request a waiver. The dean looked at the ACT score (35), and the kid asked "where should I put my priority on my time? Studying for a GED? or Freshman Calc? Do you really think that with a 35 on ACT that I wouldn't pass GED?"

 

the dean apparently pulled up records of ACT scores of homeschooled students and realized all of them had ACT scores at least 2 points above the average of the non homeschooled students. They changed the policy and decided a GED shouldn't be necessary.

 

So, if you are interested in Carson Newman, call HSLDA and get some advice. Maybe they'll get involved with some paperwork. And who knows? Maybe the policy will be changed or at least they'll clarify what they are talking about and "prove it".

 

good luck with all of this. (((hugs))), but I hope some part of my friend's son's story encourages you that things can change.

 

-crystal

[4wildberrys]

I too would call HSLDA to discuss this. If there is nothing they can do about private schools requiring this---well, I personally would make sure that Carson Newman knew where they can stick their ridiculous policy! Of course, in a very classy and nice way :tongue_smilie:

[Julie in MN]

I'd also talk to more than one person at the college. Even for my public schooled son, we found vastly different "rules" were given by different departments and even by different folks within the same department.

 

Julie

[Laurie4b]

Sounds like ignorance to me. If it's a school your student wants to attend, then I would work politely to educate them. However, it may not be a good idea for your student to go to college at an institution where the average student is that far below her in achievement.

[Lolly]

Eh, they have bedbugs anyway!:tongue_smilie::glare::tongue_smilie:

[ZooRho]

I would talk to someone else at the college. We visited it when my oldest was looking for a college. I don't remember that ever coming up in our conversations with them.

 

I was not impressed with the college when we visited it. Actually there were a few families on the tour with us. Another family and ours very early on weren't impressed so we ended up at the back of the group talking about other colleges.

 

Other colleges in the area: Covenant, Bryan, King, Libscomb ah shoot there are some others. THey are in the same sports conference so you could look for information on other colleges websites about the conference.

 

Oh and rereading the post- the person is wrong about the FED requirement that is not true.

[silliness7]

My daughter and I visited a Christian college fair at a local private school today. They had invited area homeschoolers. Out of ALL of the 35-40 schools that were there (including academically selective schools like Wheaton), only ONE required the GED for homeschoolers who are not under an umbrella school program.

 

Carson-Newman University insists that they need homeschoolers, regardless of their SAT/ACT scores, to take the GED to be eligible for admission. CNU's average ACT is a 22! My daughter received a 31 on her ACT and 4's and 5's on her AP tests and they still insist that she would need to take the GED. According to them, in order to be in "compliance with Federal regulations" they need an "official" transcript and diploma from an accrediting body. They said it's not their rule it's federal law. HUH????

 

We live in NC, where you do not have to be under an umbrella school and very few people choose to be. We have homeschool friends that have kids in colleges all over the country. Public and private. Some are even in Ivy League schools (Brown) or well respected state schools (UNC-Chapel Hill). Many of them receive Federal Financial Aid (I know friends whose kids are at Covenant College that do). How come none of them were asked to take the GED?

 

We live in Western NC, only an hour's drive from CNU. My youngest daughter might consider it, but NOT if she has to take the GED. I'm curious if this would be a matter for HSLDA. At best, it seems like a huge misunderstanding of federal regulations on CNU's part. At worst, it seems like discrimination. Thanks for letting me vent!

__________________

 

Those are all good questions. I would call the admission department at Carson Newman and ask them. I used to work in admissions at an SBC school like CN. I remember when we dropped the GED requirement somewhere in the mid-90's. It was a big deal. But CN needs to catch up with the times. :001_smile:

 

ETA: The guy/gal manning the booth at a high school college fair is most probably the lowest man on the totem pole and the least in the know about legal stuff. Call someone "official."

Edited September 30, 2010 by silliness7

[Ellie]

Read this issue analysis by HSLDA.

 

Here's the first paragraph:

 

Colleges and universities frequently ask two questions about homeschoolers: (1) Are homeschoolers eligible for financial aid without obtaining a GED or passing an ability-to-benefit test? and (2) Can a university admit a student with a homeschool high school diploma who is under the age of compulsory attendance and still retain its eligibility for federal funding? The answer to both questions is "Yes."

Oh, and notice that the date of this analysis is 2007. Carson Newman U. is sadly behind the times.

ITA with the others: contact HSLDA.

[ZooRho]

Read this issue analysis by HSLDA.

 

Here's the first paragraph:

 

 

 

 

Oh, and notice that the date of this analysis is 2007. Carson Newman U. is sadly behind the times.

 

ITA with the others: contact HSLDA.

That is what I thought, I wouldn't worry about talking to HSLDA before you get a chance to talk the school. As Isaid we were there and they new we hsed and they never mentioned the GED.

[creekland]

Sounds like ignorance to me. If it's a school your student wants to attend, then I would work politely to educate them. However, it may not be a good idea for your student to go to college at an institution where the average student is that far below her in achievement.

 

:iagree: Everyone makes their colleges decisions for different reasons, but in general, I've found that those who go to schools way below their ability are often bored UNLESS they are in a special program that matches who they are (eg Honors, Music, etc). Remember too, that profs can only teach to the level of their students.

 

Otherwise, I seriously doubt the person manning the table knew what they were talking about... I'm curious to know whether this is the school's official position if/when you talk with them. Either way, it's too far below my boys capabilities to be on their list for consideration so it doesn't affect us one way or the other. If their ACT scores were lower, then it might be different.

[choirfarm]

How old is your daughter? I know there was a big blow up at Baylor in 1996 as they because they said you had to be 18 or have your GED. They still say that it would mess up their federal aid if they allowed someone to attend that young without it. Now if you are 18 or older a homemade transcript is fine as well as regular test scores. I found an article and part of it is because a 13 year old inquired. Here is a link to the article from 2003:

http://www.baylormag.com/story.php?story=003892

 

I will say that agree with Creekland. I think your child would be bored there. I just wonder if this is what they are talking about.

 

Christine

[In The Great White North]

I take policies like this to be an indication that the university will have many, equally unreasonable policies and, therefore, I don't want anything to do with them.

 

That's how Georgia Tech got eliminated.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

We have gotten recruiting letters from Carson Newman and NOTHING has been said about a GED in those letters. I would think that the person you talked with was wrong. I would call the admissions office and find out for sure!

[Lolly]

Their policy from their website:

 

 

Home Schooled Applicants

All home schooled students must submit an official transcript of all high school coursework completed and SAT/ACT scores. If the student cannot submit transcripts from an approved home schooling association or documentation which verifies official registration of the student with a local school system, then the applicant must submit GED scores. The home schooled student seeking freshman admission must meet the regular requirements for admission to be considered for acceptance to C-N. In order to comply with the State Department of Education's Ability to Benefit measure, all home schooled students must submit either ACT/SAT scores or GED results prior to enrollment and administration of federal student aid.

 

I wonder what they consider approved homeschooling associations...

[avdelp]

Thanks for the input everybody. Many of you asked if I had talked to the "right" people regarding the GED issue. Well, I actually did speak to 2 admissions counselors and then i spoke to the actual Dean of Admissions who confirmed the policy that is posted online. All of them said that it is not their fault, that it is federal policy that demands the GED. Obviously, this is not true.

 

To those of you who suggested that this may not be a school that we would want to look at, I couldn't agree with you more. If this is any indication, I would hate to see the headache we would encounter when it came time to apply for scholarships etc.

 

I think what has be upset is just the principle of the thing. Obviously, they have misunderstood federal regulations. But why, when most other schools seem to "get it?" I mean they aren't even a competitive school. Grrrrrrr....... Oh well, up to this point we haven't encountered many homeschool obstacles. I makes me grateful for the parents that have gone before us and all the roads that they paved for us!

[Teachin'Mine]

This link is from another college's website, but it seems to me that there's a test - not the GED - used to determine if a student is able to benefit from a college education. Sounds like a basic competency test. I don't see why the other college doesn't allow the student to take this test instead of the GED. :confused:

 

http://www.smc.edu/apps/pub.asp?Q=1372

 

ETA: The test is the Accuplacer and it's by the College Board.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Teachin'Mine

[creekland]

I think what has be upset is just the principle of the thing. Obviously, they have misunderstood federal regulations. But why, when most other schools seem to "get it?" I mean they aren't even a competitive school. Grrrrrrr....... Oh well, up to this point we haven't encountered many homeschool obstacles. I makes me grateful for the parents that have gone before us and all the roads that they paved for us!

 

:iagree:

[creekland]

This link is from another college's website' date=' but it seems to me that there's a test - not the GED - used to determine if a student is able to benefit from a college education. Sounds like a basic competency test. I don't see why the other college doesn't allow the student to take this test instead of the GED. :confused:

 

http://www.smc.edu/apps/pub.asp?Q=1372

 

ETA: The test is the Accuplacer and it's by the College Board.[/quote']

 

I could be wrong, but this might be the test the local cc gives high school students to see if they can take classes. They have to pass college level in all subjects or they can't take any classes. Other than that, they need an SAT or ACT score, an evaluator's recommendation, and a transcript (home-made is fine). No GED or official diploma is necessary. It boggles my mind that some schools incorrectly argue that something else is needed due to federal regs. If you ask me, it shows the level of education at that place! (I'd be perfectly ok with them stating they merely WANT x, y, or z, but to say something is NEEDED due to fed regulations is completely different IMO.)

[Ellie]

"Home Schooled Applicants

All home schooled students must submit an official transcript of all high school coursework completed and SAT/ACT scores. If the student cannot submit transcripts from an approved home schooling association or documentation which verifies official registration of the student with a local school system, then the applicant must submit GED scores. The home schooled student seeking freshman admission must meet the regular requirements for admission to be considered for acceptance to C-N. In order to comply with the State Department of Education's Ability to Benefit measure, all home schooled students must submit either ACT/SAT scores or GED results prior to enrollment and administration of federal student aid."

 

This says ACT/SAT scores **OR** GED results. :confused:

 

And *they* probably don't know what an "approved homeschooling association" means. :glare:

[LauraQ]

I'd call HSLDA.

 

I'm reminded of a story a friend of mine tells about his son's application to Missouri Univ of Science and Technology about 4 years ago. MS&T was saying "homeschoolers have to take GED". Then, my friend's son requested to meet with the dean of admissions to request a waiver. The dean looked at the ACT score (35), and the kid asked "where should I put my priority on my time? Studying for a GED? or Freshman Calc? Do you really think that with a 35 on ACT that I wouldn't pass GED?"

 

the dean apparently pulled up records of ACT scores of homeschooled students and realized all of them had ACT scores at least 2 points above the average of the non homeschooled students. They changed the policy and decided a GED shouldn't be necessary.

 

So, if you are interested in Carson Newman, call HSLDA and get some advice. Maybe they'll get involved with some paperwork. And who knows? Maybe the policy will be changed or at least they'll clarify what they are talking about and "prove it".

 

good luck with all of this. (((hugs))), but I hope some part of my friend's son's story encourages you that things can change.

 

-crystal

 

I *wouldn't* call HSLDA and instead would follow the example of this boy who requested a meeting with the deen and changed hearts and attitudes towards homeschooling rather than just official rules and regulations. This boy accomplished BOTH in a way that a well-written letter from a legal organization cannot. The lesson from this boy's story SHOULD be that one should not just take this answer as set in stone. Clearly, it isn't! Request a personal meeting with the dean of admissions and see if your daughter can't change both the rules *and* the impressions of the admissions department.

[SandKsmama]

This thread reminded me of a friend of mine in Montana, who told me that to in order to attend a Montana state university, homeschooled students must get a GED. I couldn't believe it - it just seems SO ignorant to me. Every speaker I've ever heard talk about homeschooling high school has said very adamantly NOT to go the GED route...that it's looked upon negatively by future colleges/employers, etc. So why in the world are these colleges requiring it? Makes no sense at all.

[Lolly]

Their policy from their website:

 

 

Home Schooled Applicants

All home schooled students must submit an official transcript of all high school coursework completed and SAT/ACT scores. If the student cannot submit transcripts from an approved home schooling association or documentation which verifies official registration of the student with a local school system, then the applicant must submit GED scores. The home schooled student seeking freshman admission must meet the regular requirements for admission to be considered for acceptance to C-N. In order to comply with the State Department of Education's Ability to Benefit measure, all home schooled students must submit either ACT/SAT scores or GED results prior to enrollment and administration of federal student aid.

 

I wonder what they consider approved homeschooling associations...

 

Okay, I think I have figured it out. They are in TN. What they are saying is that you must be homeschooling legally. In Tn, you must be registered somewhere. If you did not homeschool legally, you must submit GED.

[mcconnellboys]

I believe that they are wrong, but all the military academies require GED's, too. Other than those, I'm not aware of any colleges that require them. It seems they could look around and see that no one else is doing it and get a clue.....

[ZooRho]

I believe that they are wrong, but all the military academies require GED's, too. Other than those, I'm not aware of any colleges that require them. It seems they could look around and see that no one else is doing it and get a clue.....

I do know that isn't true either.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Most probably the person you spoke to was just misinformed. It may be their policy, but the reasoning isn't sound. They are just behind the times.

 

*I* would speak to them and clarify the situation. If it is indeed their policy, I would draft up a well-thought out letter (and in my case, since I can't write worth beans, I'd have it professionally edited) outlining how they are behind the times, wrong in their reasoning, etc. Make mention that out of all the schools at this event (I'd find out the exact number if you can and name drop also), they are the only one requiring such a thing which is unacceptable to the majority of homeschoolers (do a poll on the board to back that up...LOL...but make it sound important, of course). I'd use examples of other schools such as the one mentioned above also. Of course, ask them kindly to review the policy and to let you know if they choose to change it as you have a student (and know of others) who may be interested in them if they do change it.

 

*I* wouldn't go to hslda for a couple reasons. First, I wouldn't have anything to do with them anyway though you could cite the information like was done above. Second, it is perfectly legal for this private college to do anything they please including expecting homeschoolers to jump through dumb hoops for whatever reason they please, reasonable or not. Dumb, but their right.

 

ETA: I read some of the thread and saw above that someone already suggested doing as another student had done previously just what I'm suggesting here. I would not, however, give them pass just because they are in TN. Just because TN laws are what they are doesn't mean anything as people outside of TN will consider their school (including the oP). If they want to require that of their TN residents, that may be their choice (again, not one I'd do if I were them, but...); but it wouldn't make sense to require that of their students from other states who are under different laws. In some states, there wouldn't even be such organizations at all, for example.

 

And like the student above expressed, it makes no sense to have homeschoolers jump through an extra hoop when they likely have the same test scores (and higher ones at that) that schooled students have. Why would a student with a 28 or 32 or 35 ACT score need to prove his education is at least on a 10th grade level? His scores already prove he's more capable academically than the majority of college bound students, including the average student going to that college!

Edited October 1, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[In The Great White North]

I believe that they are wrong, but all the military academies require GED's, too. Other than those, I'm not aware of any colleges that require them. It seems they could look around and see that no one else is doing it and get a clue.....

 

Not true. Ds was accepted just last spring at West Point and Air Force without a GED. And several others on these boards have had dc accepted without a GED also.

[cbollin]

Okay, I think I have figured it out. They are in TN. What they are saying is that you must be homeschooling legally. In Tn, you must be registered somewhere. If you did not homeschool legally, you must submit GED.

 

 

ah ha! Now it makes sense. I currently live in TN, but use to live in another state.

I totally get it.

 

 

They probably could benefit from rewriting the policy to clarify for those applying from other states where homeschooling is defined legally in different terms. But maybe they don't get lots of out of state homeschoolers applying and never see the confusion on it?????

 

-crystal

[cbollin]

"Home Schooled Applicants

All home schooled students must submit an official transcript of all high school coursework completed and SAT/ACT scores. If the student cannot submit transcripts from an approved home schooling association or documentation which verifies official registration of the student with a local school system, then the applicant must submit GED scores. The home schooled student seeking freshman admission must meet the regular requirements for admission to be considered for acceptance to C-N. In order to comply with the State Department of Education's Ability to Benefit measure, all home schooled students must submit either ACT/SAT scores or GED results prior to enrollment and administration of federal student aid."

 

This says ACT/SAT scores **OR** GED results. :confused:

 

And *they* probably don't know what an "approved homeschooling association" means. :glare:

 

Ellie,

 

ready for your head to spin?

 

 

In TN "approved homeschooling association" has a specific, and legal definition

Technically if a student if enrolled in an "approved" CAT IV school, they are not a homeschooler, but are attending a private school.

 

But if they are by legal definition "homeschooling" in TN, then the parent issued diploma is not recognized and the GED will be required. It is a very hot conversation topic in TN homeschool forums. You don't even want to go there with TNers on it. I learned the hard way my first month here. LOL

 

anyway. Legal definition of homeschooling is very interesting in the state of TN and requires you register with the local district and then you don't get to have a diploma like homeschoolers in other states can do. You have to have a GED if you have chosen what is commonly called "option 1" homeschooling. So...

 

So, basically, very few people "homeschool" in TN to avoid this legal snarl. We all enroll our children to Category IV private schools that permit off campus instruction in our homes and hire the parents to teach without salary.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: and it is "legally" that Category IV school that issues the diploma and not the parents.

 

welcome to TN. I don't know how this specific university handles "out of state" homeschoolers who are legal in other states. they just may not realize they need to re word the policy for clarification. :lol:

 

-crystal

Edited October 1, 2010 by cbollin
word correction

[mcconnellboys]

That's very good to know. A few years ago, folks who had kids applying were complaining about being forced to obtain these for military schools. I'm glad to know that this has changed....