Foster Mama's, how do you think the GAL will respond to my question, yay or nay?

[CalicoKat]

Background: Yesterday's court decision is that dfs is staying for another six months, "At least." Yay!

 

My question to the GAL:

"May I trim this kid's bangs?"

 

More background: His bangs hang down past his nose and every time he eats he ends up chewing on them. Food and boogers stick to them, they're in front of his eyes all the time. He's working on mastering his spoon skills and when his hair sticks to it he gets angry and flings it across the room and so we know he's very frustrated. He's 18 months old.

 

I know this may seem like a petty thing in light of all the other things going on in his case. But for this little dude this is a frustration that's only being endured because his mama likes being able to say no about something that's happening in his life. (that's a known fact his mom admitted to not just speculation)

 

Today I sent along a nice note and my hair trimming kit for her to do this during his visit. I told the caseworker supervising the visit that I would be calling to get permission to get his hair cut.

[*********]

Please excuse my ignorance; I have no personal experience with fostering at all.

 

But if a child is placed in your care for at least six months, shouldn't you be allowed to cut their hair when they need it? I mean, most boys I know need a haircut at least every two months. I don't want to know what my dh or my boys would look like if I made them go six months between haircuts.

 

Wouldn't a haircut be the same as making sure they bathe, brush their teeth, or trim their nails? I mean, if you can't cut his hair, can you trim his nails? Isn't it pretty much the same thing?

 

I guess I can see where, if you had a little girl placed with you that had waist length hair, it might be frowned upon if you were to chop it all off into a short pixie cut. But, where's the line? What if her waist length hair was in awful shape, and the best thing to do was cut it?

 

Just thinking out loud.

[FaithManor]

In the state of Michigan, a foster parent can't give a foster child a haircut without permission of the bios unless their parental rights have been terminated by the court. For that matter, technically one cannot take that child outside of the county without permission....not even for a doctor's appointment. In our rural area, the social workers completely ignore that second one because it would be impossible to get reasonable care for the child. We have no pediatric specialists, only two pediatricians, no neurologists, no behavioral specialists, no pediatric cardiologists, you name it, we don't have it. So waiting for some ridiculous bios to give permission to go for a doctor's appointment would be NUTS.

 

The amount of control the bios have while the child is placed in foster care is quite startling. It is a huge reason that many couples, seeking to do foster care, end up saying "NO".

 

I do know of one kid with a similar bang situation who did end up with his hair cut without permission. He fell and needed stitches on his forehead. The ER nurse cut his bangs as a matter of medical treatment. The bios were angry and wanted community legal aid to sue the doctor and nurse for cutting his hair without permission! That didn't fly very far.

 

Faith

Edited September 21, 2010 by FaithManor
spelling

[CalicoKat]

Please excuse my ignorance; I have no personal experience with fostering at all.

 

But if a child is placed in your care for at least six months, shouldn't you be allowed to cut their hair when they need it? I mean, most boys I know need a haircut at least every two months. I don't want to know what my dh or my boys would look like if I made them go six months between haircuts.

 

Wouldn't a haircut be the same as making sure they bathe, brush their teeth, or trim their nails? I mean, if you can't cut his hair, can you trim his nails? Isn't it pretty much the same thing?

 

I guess I can see where, if you had a little girl placed with you that had waist length hair, it might be frowned upon if you were to chop it all off into a short pixie cut. But, where's the line? What if her waist length hair was in awful shape, and the best thing to do was cut it?

 

Just thinking out loud.

Until yesterday afternoon we didn't know this would be a longer placement. So the case worker told me at the time of placement his mom wanted to do the whole first hair cut thingy and to leave it until he returned home -- that was supposed to be a short 6 weeks. Now that he's here longer, yes it has to get cut. I agree with your line of thinking! But is the mom's right to decided when and where her kid gets a hair cut superior to his right to eat with ease and see without looking through his bangs? That's what I think is confusing in this situation.

[CalicoKat]

In the state of Michigan, a foster parent can give a foster child a haircut without permission of the bios unless their parental rights have been terminated by the court. For that matter, technically one cannot take that child outside of the county without permission....not even for a doctor's appointment. In our rural area, the social workers completely ignore that second one because it would be impossible to get reasonable care for the child. We have no pediatric specialists, only two pediatricians, no neurologists, no behavioral specialists, no pediatric cardiologists, you name it, we don't have it. So waiting for some ridiculous bios to give permission to go for a doctor's appointment would be NUTS.

 

The amount of control the bios have while the child is placed in foster care is quite startling. It is a huge reason that many couples, seeking to do foster care, end up saying "NO".

 

I do know of one kid with a similar bang situation who did end up with his hair cut without permission. He fell and needed stitches on his forehead. The ER nurse cut his bangs as a matter of medical treatment. The bios were angry and wanted community legal aid to sue the doctor and nurse for cutting his hair without permission! That didn't fly very far.

 

Faith

I think you meant to say can't in the first paragraph, right?

[*********]

Until yesterday afternoon we didn't know this would be a longer placement. So the case worker told me at the time of placement his mom wanted to do the whole first hair cut thingy and to leave it until he returned home -- that was supposed to be a short 6 weeks. Now that he's here longer, yes it has to get cut. I agree with your line of thinking! But is the mom's right to decided when and where her kid gets a hair cut superior to his right to eat with ease and see without looking through his bangs? That's what I think is confusing in this situation.

 

Duh on me, I didn't realize we were talking about a FIRST hair cut. Well, yeah, I can see how bio mom might want to do that herself. But if the boys hair is so long he literally can't see, seems to me that the case worker should be able to insist that either bio mom cut it, or let you cut it.

 

What do I know. But yeah, sounds like there's a lot of hoop jumping in foster care that I wouldn't be able to handle. I do know that it has irked me in the past when dss has come over from his mom's house with his hair hanging in his eyes. But even then, he gets a 'the next time I see you, if you don't have your hair cut, I'm doing it. So if your mom wants to do it, let her know that'. That has ALWAYS assured that dss gets a haircut before the next time he comes over. :D Gotta be careful not to step on bio mom's toes, you know. ;)

[Laurie4b]

In our state, once DSS has custody, they get to make decisions like this, but I see from a pp that that is not true in all states.

 

I think given that the bangs are not merely an aesthetic thing but are interfering with his development and behavior, that the social worker should be able to give permission to have them cut (unless your state is different) and that the GAL is likely to agree. You can always go to court to get permission to do reasonable things like this if it is not automatically allowed under your state's law.

 

What is your relationship with the bio mom like? Do you have contact with her? If you do, I would give her as many choices as possible in his life, both of which are acceptable to you (just like you would do with a toddler. Do you want your milk in a green cup or a red cup? (but you're still getting milk). So not: may I cut his hair, but "His hair is starting to frustrate him. What style would you like it cut in so that it's not getting tangled in his food?" Then if she wants it shaved, a Mohawk, or cut just to his eyebrows, it's all good.

 

I would not send my scissors. I think that might provoke a "no." I would get the message ahead and say, "If you'd like, I can send my scissors." Just keep thinking of this mom as a toddler (I don't mean that disrespectfully, just that if she likes saying "no" for the heck of it, she may well have gotten stuck at that developmental level, so be kind and appropriate as you react to her where she is). A toddler handed something and being told "Do this" is more likely to say no than if they think it's their idea. She has lost all control over her kid and so you want to give her every little bit you can that is not actually harmful to the child. Can you think of anything else you can give her control over?

Edited September 21, 2010 by Laurie4b

[mommaduck]

Due to the fact that there are sometimes cultural and religious reasons that a mother would not want her infant/toddler's hair cut at the moment, is it possible that you could just hold it out of the way with a barrette while he eats?

[FaithManor]

Yes, thanks CalicoKat, I did edit my spelling error!

I need another cup of coffee.

 

Faith

[LibraryLover]

If they say no, I'd stick a barrette in his hair when he eats. I have a friend who likes long hair on little boys, and this is what she does sometimes. When it's long enough, it can go into a pony tail, which will look really cute on him. My boys' hair always grows out ;), not down, otherwise I would have had little boys with long hair.

Edited September 22, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Heather in OK]

My Mom has had that exact situation with children placed in her home. In the state she is in, ultimately it is the decision of the birth parents whether or not they want the child's hair cut or not. If they don't give permission....no hair cut.

 

But is the mom's right to decided when and where her kid gets a hair cut superior to his right to eat with ease and see without looking through his bangs?

It's going to depend on the state regulations. If the birth parents have to consent to it, then the answer to that question is yes. And I agree, it is VERY confusing and in some cases absurd. But they do still have parental rights.

[CalicoKat]

Yes, thanks CalicoKat, I did edit my spelling error!

I need another cup of coffee.

 

Faith

 

I"m still on my first cuppa here and I'm not up to full steam yet.

[CalicoKat]

Due to the fact that there are sometimes cultural and religious reasons that a mother would not want her infant/toddler's hair cut at the moment, is it possible that you could just hold it out of the way with a barrette while he eats?

 

a barrette, a rubber band, braided -- I've tried it all and he pulls it out. His hair is very very fine.

 

No this isn't a cultural or religious reason. His mama has said that it's just because she can control this one issue.

[LibraryLover]

a barrette, a rubber band, braided -- I've tried it all and he pulls it out. His hair is very very fine.

 

No this isn't a cultural or religious reason. His mama has said that it's just because she can control this one issue.

 

 

Could you slip it in while he is sleeping. ;) Hairspray? Gel? :D Basball cap on backwards? Pirate bandana?

 

Good luck with it if it stays.

 

As an aside, we're supposed to be joining the on-going foster care classes here, but I keep putting it off. It seems very scary; this makes me realize that even the simple things are huge in foster care. I imagine birth parents would want to take a strong stand where-ever they could. That seems a given, and I am not sure I am up to the huge emotional toll this takes on everyone. I wonder if I'd be a better GAL? But that also seems an emotional land mine. I thought i was stronger, but i don't think I am.

Edited September 21, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Julie in Austin]

What exactly are the laws in your state?

 

During training, it was explained to us that we couldn't change the style without permission. Meaning that if the child came with bangs 1/2 inch above eyebrows, we could trim the hair so that it was always 1/2 inch above eyebrows.

[mommaduck]

I wish I knew what else to say. We had one child that we had to put a shower cap on.

[TravelingChris]

Wow- No wonder many states can't get people to be foster parents. We were foster parents in CA before we had children and there weren't any such restrictions. OUr girl was 9 so no such issues. We did ask the department for permission to take her camping in another county and that was fine with them. Her mother had no say at all since she was in jail. She didn't even have visitation.

[happyhomemaker25]

Our kids parents rarely showed up for visitation so I just cut their hair whenever I wanted. My boys' mom was so out of it when she did show up for visits that she did not even notice.

But no we are not supposed to cut hair without permission.

The one little boy I had whose mom never missed visitation was ok with haircuts. She just appreciated that we took such good care of him. He was a sweet kid. She was a good mom who'd made a dumb mistake. She was also the only mom who ever finished a case plan.

[Wendi]

If birth mom is allowed some visitation, couldn't the birth mom meet you and the toddler (and whatever guardian or social worker is needed) at a hair salon? If she sees he has dirty bangs in his face, wouldn't she choose having his haircut if she gets to choose how it's cut?

 

Wendi

[KrissiK]

It's such a control issue. My son was 13 months when we met him. He's biracial and had not had a haircut in 4 months. Foster mom had his very coarse, curly hair slicked down and it looked horrible. Fortunately, they'd just visited with b-mom and she did give permission for a haircut.

 

I realize we are talking about a 1st haircut here, but here in California I have yet to figure out whether the rule is "no haircuts w/out b-mom's permission" period! Or, the foster parents can "maintain a hairstyle", meaning that they can cut the hair without permission, just not change the hairstyle, i.e. from long flowing locks to a buzz cut type of thing. I've seen foster parents get in trouble for cutting 1/4" off a child's hair just to clean it up a bit. But, I've also had social workers say it's ok to "maintain a hairstyle". So... who knows. The rules are stupid.

[LizzyBee]

Perhaps if you mention that you will need to start pinning his hair back with a barrette to keep it out of his face, mama will allow the haircut. :tongue_smilie:

[Pink Fairy]

If his needs mattered to her he wouldn't be in foster care in the first place. Poor boy.

 

Many years ago my dh worked with severely mentally disabled adults. One lady's head was covered in sores because she compulsively pulled out her hair. The state said that it would violate her human rights to shave her head, so instead she was left with with her human rights intact, but bloody, oozing (and I'm assuming painful) scabs all over her head.

 

All that to say it won't surprise me if the GAL says no.

[Miss Peregrine]

First off, what is GAL? I can't figure it out.:tongue_smilie:

 

Our foster boy came with long hair, slicked back and completely stuck to his head. We were told we could not cut it because of his ethnicity. He was also pulling out his own hair when he would get frustrated.

 

Maybe he was pulling it out because it felt gross, glued down to his scalp.:glare:

 

 

 

Hope you get it resolved, Calico.

[mommaduck]

Guardian ad Litem = GAL

[FaithManor]

Bios can be hard to gauge but is it possible that during his next visitation, you arrange for his hair to be french braided? I know how you can keep it from coming out inspite of how fine it is. You can use Knox unflavored gelatin. It is clear and you can put it on his hair and then pull it back and up before it dries. Once dried, it would take a hurricane to move it.

 

If she asks why his hair is sticky, just tell her that it is so long in his face that he gets his food in it all the time and you can't keep him clean anymore so this was your last resort. Let your caseworker in on the whole thing so he/she knows what you are up to. You could announce that this is how you intend to do his hair from now on since he clearly needs to eat. This may force her hand and she will demand a hair cut because she thinks that she is opposing your efforts.

 

Faith

[JessReplanted]

It just seems crazy to me that parents who are unwilling or unable or unfit to care for their children still have the right to decide when their hair gets cut. :eek:

 

I have tremendous respect for those of you who are foster parents!

[CalicoKat]

If birth mom is allowed some visitation, couldn't the birth mom meet you and the toddler (and whatever guardian or social worker is needed) at a hair salon? If she sees he has dirty bangs in his face, wouldn't she choose having his haircut if she gets to choose how it's cut?

 

Wendi

It has been suggested numerous times. She won't do it. Yes it is a control issue and ironically it is one of the reasons she's not got custody right now--making selfish decisions that aren't in his best interest.

[CalicoKat]

Bios can be hard to gauge but is it possible that during his next visitation, you arrange for his hair to be french braided? I know how you can keep it from coming out inspite of how fine it is. You can use Knox unflavored gelatin. It is clear and you can put it on his hair and then pull it back and up before it dries. Once dried, it would take a hurricane to move it.

 

If she asks why his hair is sticky, just tell her that it is so long in his face that he gets his food in it all the time and you can't keep him clean anymore so this was your last resort. Let your caseworker in on the whole thing so he/she knows what you are up to. You could announce that this is how you intend to do his hair from now on since he clearly needs to eat. This may force her hand and she will demand a hair cut because she thinks that she is opposing your efforts.

 

Faith

hmm, the gelatin would work well! I'll give it a whirl for tomorrow.

[mommaduck]

First off, what is GAL? I can't figure it out.:tongue_smilie:

 

Our foster boy came with long hair, slicked back and completely stuck to his head. We were told we could not cut it because of his ethnicity. He was also pulling out his own hair when he would get frustrated.

 

Maybe he was pulling it out because it felt gross, glued down to his scalp.:glare:

 

 

 

Hope you get it resolved, Calico.

Couldn't you wash it though? It's also possible he had trich (it's a condition of hair pulling...generally brought on by illness and stress). Various scalp issues (psoriasis) could cause a child to scratch, pick at, and even pull hair as well.

[anneofalamo]

any hope of bio momma being able to answer the question? or be there for the first cut? if it isn't a big thing to her, then they may be cool with it..

mom to 4 thru foster...and loved my GAL!! Guardian ad Litum...a court appointed voice for the child. (often a volunteer) To us a real person who cared for the kids, sees all sides of the story and a shoulder to cry on!

[Miss Peregrine]

Couldn't you wash it though? It's also possible he had trich (it's a condition of hair pulling...generally brought on by illness and stress). Various scalp issues (psoriasis) could cause a child to scratch, pick at, and even pull hair as well.

 

 

We think it was stress from the other foster home. He hasn't pulled his hair once in the month that he has been here.

[mommaduck]

We think it was stress from the other foster home. He hasn't pulled his hair once in the month that he has been here.

Oh good. Trich can be difficult to deal with.

[CalicoKat]

any hope of bio momma being able to answer the question? or be there for the first cut? if it isn't a big thing to her, then they may be cool with it..

mom to 4 thru foster...and loved my GAL!! Guardian ad Litum...a court appointed voice for the child. (often a volunteer) To us a real person who cared for the kids, sees all sides of the story and a shoulder to cry on!

 

bio mom is making this her "last stand." She's been given every opportunity, suggestion, tools for making it possible for her to be there for the first cut. It is a big thing to her and everyone keeps trying to help her schedule it, but she refuses.

 

I hope our GAL is as focused on this child as yours has been. We've worked with her before.

[CalicoKat]

Perhaps if you mention that you will need to start pinning his hair back with a barrette to keep it out of his face, mama will allow the haircut. :tongue_smilie:

 

All I've got are cute pink and purple snappies with flowers. :) OK, that's tomorrow's visit hair do. I've got to get to the store for gelatin though before Friday's visit.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Duh on me, I didn't realize we were talking about a FIRST hair cut. Well, yeah, I can see how bio mom might want to do that herself. But if the boys hair is so long he literally can't see, seems to me that the case worker should be able to insist that either bio mom cut it, or let you cut it.

 

 

It's not just about a FIRST haircut! Here in OK, particularly if ICWA applied in a particular case there would be MAJOR MAJOR issues if a child in custody had a haircut. This is a cultural thing and NOT to be messed with!!

 

Does the child have a tribal affiliation? Does ICWA apply?

[CalicoKat]

It's not just about a FIRST haircut! Here in OK, particularly if ICWA applied in a particular case there would be MAJOR MAJOR issues if a child in custody had a haircut. This is a cultural thing and NOT to be messed with!!

 

Does the child have a tribal affiliation? Does ICWA apply?

 

No it's not a cultural thing. I've asked. It's not a religous thing. I've asked.

No tribal affiliations either. I've asked.

 

The mom has said that she knows he needs a trim but that she won't do it because she just won't.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

No it's not a cultural thing. I've asked. It's not a religous thing. I've asked.

No tribal affiliations either. I've asked.

 

The mom has said that she knows he needs a trim but that she won't do it because she just won't.

 

 

Yeah, sorry, I read the rest of the thread after I posted. I thought it was about ICWA, but it's not. Can you bring it up with the SW or judge? Train him to wear a hat or bandana? (the foster kid not SW/judge!) :lol:

 

 

It sounds like the mom is hoping to get you so frustrated that you get his haircut then she can scream about it.

[Dobela]

In Arkansas, if the parent refused to do it, and it was obvious that a cut was needed, the social worker could do it. Ask the social worker in charge of his case, or ask the ad litem to make the decision.

[mom2agang]

You could always leave DFS and your 3 yr old in a room after accidently forgetting to put the scissors away. That always works without fail here. My one dd had beautiful blond hair and would cut it every chance she could with scissors. Then after awhile she got tired of being in trouble and started cutting her younger brothers hair.

[CalicoKat]

You could always leave DFS and your 3 yr old in a room after accidently forgetting to put the scissors away. That always works without fail here. My one dd had beautiful blond hair and would cut it every chance she could with scissors. Then after awhile she got tired of being in trouble and started cutting her younger brothers hair.

 

Ugh! I found her rubbing her hair oil in his hair this afternoon. I've washed his head 5 times now and it's still oily!!!

 

She'd love a chance to cut his hair. We've taken the sissors from her a couple times already. :D

[mommaduck]

Ugh! I found her rubbing her hair oil in his hair this afternoon. I've washed his head 5 times now and it's still oily!!!

 

She'd love a chance to cut his hair. We've taken the sissors from her a couple times already. :D

Oh, so this is a power play on both sides? Why aren't you letting her cut his hair?

[Laurie4b]

Oh, so this is a power play on both sides? Why aren't you letting her cut his hair?

 

The OP was talking about one of her young children, I believe---or were you kidding?

[mommaduck]

The OP was talking about one of her young children, I believe---or were you kidding?

Oh no, I missed it. My apologies *blush*

[CalicoKat]

I'm so thrilled.

 

The GAL never called ME, but evidently called BioMom last night and told her to get it scheduled for today during the visit. She was told that getting it cut today was her last chance for the excuse of the whole first hair cut excuse.

 

 

:D I'm so happy for him. It's out of his eyes and mouth, finally.

 

NOW I get to maintain the length.

[Miss Peregrine]

:party:

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Due to the fact that there are sometimes cultural and religious reasons that a mother would not want her infant/toddler's hair cut at the moment, is it possible that you could just hold it out of the way with a barrette while he eats?

 

That's what I was going to suggest. Just get a bobby pin and hold it away from his face while he's eating.

 

ETA: Oops- posted before I finished reading!

[anneofalamo]

I'm so thrilled.

 

The GAL never called ME, but evidently called BioMom last night and told her to get it scheduled for today during the visit. She was told that getting it cut today was her last chance for the excuse of the whole first hair cut excuse.

 

 

:D I'm so happy for him. It's out of his eyes and mouth, finally.

 

NOW I get to maintain the length.

 

yeah on that and hopes bio momma is able to help herself

hugs to you for the crazy life you are in!!

[mommaduck]

I'm so thrilled.

 

The GAL never called ME, but evidently called BioMom last night and told her to get it scheduled for today during the visit. She was told that getting it cut today was her last chance for the excuse of the whole first hair cut excuse.

 

 

:D I'm so happy for him. It's out of his eyes and mouth, finally.

 

NOW I get to maintain the length.

:grouphug: YAY!!!!

[Ottakee]

Great. This is just another one of those things that foster parents have to deal with.

 

We had a 21 month old boy who WAS part Native American (despite being blond haired and blue eyed) and was under the ICWA rules. He had long curly hair and it was in his eyes all the time. I resorted to the pony tails and baseball caps and then he just looked like a girl with a baseball cap. We finally got permission to trim the bangs.

 

It was much easier when the kids came in with a short hair cut and we could maintain it.

[Dobela]

Ugh! I found her rubbing her hair oil in his hair this afternoon. I've washed his head 5 times now and it's still oily!!!

 

She'd love a chance to cut his hair. We've taken the sissors from her a couple times already. :D

If his hair is still oily, put in some baby powder or something similar in his hair before washing. It will soak up the extra oils.