Mommyfaithe Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 And get them to make connections...mathy ones... We use manipulatives, rods, bears, pictures, abacus, counters of every kind, fingers...toes...coins...balances...AHHHHHH!!!! I just can't seem to get them to understand 7+3=3+7 and the 10 connection. (this is just an example....) I can't seem to get them to see doubles plus one or doubles less one...or add up to the ten and then how many more are needed.... I can't get them to memorize their facts...it is like it is a brand new thing every.single.day. And I do this every.single.day.... DD is 12 and still...just can not see this or make the connection... AHHHHHH!!!!!! What am I missing? Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in KY Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Try an abacus. Right Start math has a great one with only two colors divided into 4 quadrants. It's very useful for getting them to see ten and then teaching them about renaming when you get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyniffrec Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Liping Ma's book has helped me tremendously. I found it because of a recommendation on this board. For me, it has been that I don't truly understand what I am teaching. I am having to go back to the most basic math and relearn everything. Right now I am in first grade. :D I have also been watching the khanacademy.org videos on basic mathematics. He explains the concepts you are talking about with several different approaches. I have heard that Right Start math is wonderful for helping the parent along as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I agree with the RightStart recommendation. Her methods are terrific, and even when I've looked at a lesson and thought, "WHAT?! This is crazy! She'll never get this! I don't even understand it!" I've found that if I just have faith and teach the lesson as it's laid out, both DD and I have light bulbs over our heads by the end. I'm not sure how you'd adapt it for a 12-year-old though, that's the tougher part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 www.mugginsmath.com Highly recommend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I can't get them to memorize their facts...it is like it is a brand new thing every.single.day. And I do this every.single.day.... DD is 12 and still...just can not see this or make the connection... AHHHHHH!!!!!! What am I missing? Faithe I don't have any recommendations about the visuals but just wanted to throw this out there regarding the bolded above. My dd11 struggles making those types of connections too but the biggest thorn in her side has been math fact memorization. She knows some of them but not all. We drilled and drilled and drilled to no avail. She would do the flashcards perfectly one day but then the next day couldn't recall the facts while doing the math. She was getting farther and farther behind in her lessons because I didn't want to move forward until she had those cemented. However, it was frustrating her terribly and really affecting her self esteem. I finally stopped worrying about it and gave her a chart to use. We have moved onto Epsilon (fractions) in MUS and she is doing really well. I have noticed that once I took the pressure off to memorize all those facts she has been retaining more and more of them simply from the repetitiveness of using that chart. Not knowing the facts really hasn't slowed her down at all. She actually said to me a few weeks ago that she likes doing fractions and that maybe she will end up being good in math after all. Now, that being said I still intend on my other dc learning the math facts but if I have another one that struggles as much as this one has I won't dwell on it. They can still do math...just not as fast.:001_smile: Actually just before I hit submit I did think of something that might help. The example you used of 7+3=3+7 made me remember what my dd7 is doing in MEP math. They use a picture of a scale to show that both sides of an equation (the numbers on either side of the =) have to balance. We actually made a makeshift scale with paper cups, string and a hanger and I used different color marbles with dd7 to demonstrate this. Maybe that might strike a cord with your dc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsjamiesouth Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I had a similar problem with ds10 the last 2 years. He was counting on fingers and he couldn't understand division no matter how I tried to show him. We drilled with flash cards and facts sheets all the time too! We had used Singapore all the way to 4A, but he couldn't hang anymore because of the facts. I switched math programs, got a times table to let him use, and kept going with the drills. Finally, this year something clicked! He has his facts down and finally gets division. :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma H Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Tomorrow I am getting the Zillio Mega Mountain. I have the same problems with my kiddos. I want them to SEE math. I want them to have strategic minds. I want them to just understand the way numbers work together, not just in isolation. Watch the video on this. It takes a while to load but I think it might be just the thing you are looking for. Look at the Zillio in the classroom as well as the get to know Zillio overview. http://www.zilliogames.com/ I like that it is for big kids as well as little kids. You can get the mini mountain for lots cheaper but I looked at the comparison between the two and I decided that the big one would be better for my big kids. I am going to try and make sure my little kids understand numbers and have math sense so I am excited to start them out on this. They are not giving it away although the price has come down a lot. I think it is WORTH IT to have my kids not struggle like they currently are. I wish I could guarantee what will come of this but I can't because I have not yet received it but I am really excited to start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 RightStart really works on these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolosoli Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Math-U-See is very strong in this area! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 I don't want to switch math programs AGAIN...and quite frankly, I don't think it is the program....and I don't think it is my understanding of arithmetic either. I have read Li ping Ma's book and it did help solidify some concepts....but it was not earth shattering to my understanding of math. It did help me somewhat with verbiage and HOW I explain "carrying" and "borrowing" (constructing/ deconstructing which I call putting together and breaking apart.) My problem is not even having the memorize their facts so much as I would rather they understood the actual connection. To add to my list, we do use an abacus....I also use dominoes, dot paper, triangle facts, number lines 100 charts etc. I literally have an entire closet devoted to math manipulatives gathered throughout the years. Right Start might work...but really...do I need MORE manipulatives?? I just want them to see.... 12-5= the difference between 12 and 5....5+5=10 and 2 more gets you to 12. so....the difference is 5+2 which is 7.... Or we can count up from 5 or count down 5 from 12 Or to remember the combination of 7 and 5 is 12...so 12-5=7 ....and all those methods will get your answer...which method will get you there quickest?? I want them to be able to "see" this in their minds and be able to complete the darn timed drill in less than 20 minutes!!! I want them not only to memorize but actually understand the meaning of numbers and number combinations. I did not work so hard at this with my older bunch of kids....and I feel like they struggled with upper level maths simply because their mind's eye could not picture WHAT they were doing. It made the more difficult concepts even more difficult and math ended up being the bane of their existence (and mine...sigh) I don't want to see that happen again. My 12 year old is on level in math...but her concept understanding leaves a lot to be desired...and it is not from lack of trying on my part....she is a little bit of an air head...which is fine when you are little...but she is now heading up into higher grades and needs to step up the focus...maybe Math U See would be right for her...I am not sure...does anyone use that as a supplement to another program? It doesn't seem thorough enough...and my kids are required to be tested yearly...and as I have said, I don't want to switch math priograms again...but I don't mind adding or supplement a little. Thanks, Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma H Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I'm telling you: Check out Zillio! www.zilliogames.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 Tomorrow I am getting the Zillio Mega Mountain. I have the same problems with my kiddos. I want them to SEE math. I want them to have strategic minds. I want them to just understand the way numbers work together, not just in isolation. Watch the video on this. It takes a while to load but I think it might be just the thing you are looking for. Look at the Zillio in the classroom as well as the get to know Zillio overview. http://www.zilliogames.com/ I like that it is for big kids as well as little kids. You can get the mini mountain for lots cheaper but I looked at the comparison between the two and I decided that the big one would be better for my big kids. I am going to try and make sure my little kids understand numbers and have math sense so I am excited to start them out on this. They are not giving it away although the price has come down a lot. I think it is WORTH IT to have my kids not struggle like they currently are. I wish I could guarantee what will come of this but I can't because I have not yet received it but I am really excited to start! This looks really cool. It is on the christmas list. Thanks for the rec. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Have you used the triangle flash cards? They have all three numbers on one side of the card so hopefully they will learn that they all go together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Do they *have* to see the connection? Can't they just learn their basic arithmetic facts and move on? And if they don't have their math facts down pat, can't they just use a chart and move on? Some children are really frustrated when they have to stop at one place until they "understand." Some [of us!] do better with being given tools like charts so they can actually *use* that information, because *then* they see the connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I don't want to switch math programs AGAIN...and quite frankly, I don't think it is the program....and I don't think it is my understanding of arithmetic either. I have read Li ping Ma's book and it did help solidify some concepts....but it was not earth shattering to my understanding of math. It did help me somewhat with verbiage and HOW I explain "carrying" and "borrowing" (constructing/ deconstructing which I call putting together and breaking apart.) You don't have to switch programs, RS just does a good job of not assuming every child has the ability to see numbers and quantities in their mind, so teaches it. Some people naturally develop the ability to see numbers & quantities, letters and pictures in the mind and some don't. I personally don't have the ability to see letters in the mind naturally, and it is a problem with my spelling. You see it overflowing into math with numbers. I am using a program called Seeing Stars to teach that ability with my 9yo. They have a sister program called On Cloud Nine that does the same thing but with numbers. With seeing stars you can buy just the manual and apply it to any spelling program. In your case I bet you can buy just the manual and apply it to your current math program. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Number bonds were helpful for getting my not naturally mathy daughter to see this connection. It took a couple of months doing number bonds next to addition and subtraction problems before it sunk in. My mom was so impressed with the difference in my daughter after we switched to Singapore that she told me she's now a fan of homeschooling and she wants all the kids' old books so she can learn to understand math! Here's a good explanation of number bonds: http://letsplaymath.net/2007/01/13/number-bonds-better-understanding/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuovonne Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I literally have an entire closet devoted to math manipulatives gathered throughout the years. Right Start might work...but really...do I need MORE manipulatives?? I just want them to see.... 12-5= the difference between 12 and 5....5+5=10 and 2 more gets you to 12. so....the difference is 5+2 which is 7.... Or we can count up from 5 or count down 5 from 12 Or to remember the combination of 7 and 5 is 12...so 12-5=7 It sounds like you have a great understanding of math yourself. It also sounds like you have lots of manipulatives. I wonder if the issue might be in *how* you use the manipulatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbielong Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I see your 12-year-old is an author/illustrator. What about having (her?) create the manipulatives? In other words, instead of using pre-fab stuff (rods, etc.) have her draw the picture of what the math is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I just want them to see.... 12-5= the difference between 12 and 5....5+5=10 and 2 more gets you to 12. so....the difference is 5+2 which is 7.... I have been supplementing with MEP, they do a great job illustrating this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jessica* Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I read your thread earlier today but had no advice to offer. Just now I came across a free online activity that might help with the number bond understanding, so I came back to post the link. It is probably too babyish for your 12yo (or maybe not, I had a lot of fun playing with it and I'm 31!), but I offer it up in the hopes that it isn't and that it might help you to help her understand a concept that she struggles with. http://www.ngfl-cymru.org.uk/vtc/2008-09/cynnal/maths/eng/number_bonds_eng.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I think the RS math games might be a good addition for you. A couple of key games could help with number bonds. Also, do you play 21? It is a terrific math game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aude sapere Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Here's a good explanation of number bonds: http://letsplaymath.net/2007/01/13/number-bonds-better-understanding/ This is going in our math binder! Thanks for posting the link :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 This is going in our math binder! Thanks for posting the link :001_smile: You're welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 I can't imagine teaching math without the RS abacus, place value cards, base-10 cards and our base-10 cubes, tens, hundreds flats & thousand blocks. I just added pics on our blog of the girls doing a RS lesson together today. Dd 7 did Saxon at private school and missed the richness that a program like RS offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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