what is modest?

[ktgrok]

I'm truly wondering where the line is. I think it was in Mere Christiantity that he says that it is culturally based. In other words, if you live in a society where people don't where shirts, say somewhere in the wilds of Africa, then it is not immodest to be be bare chested. But if you live in Victorian England than it certainly would be immodest to go shirtless. So...how does that play in our society? I know some would say society has nothing to do with it, and that just because others wear bathing suits doesn't make it appropriate for them, or modest. Also, some say that the purpose is to save for their husband what is for his eyes only, which I pretty much agree with. However, that is the same excuse used in the Middle East to require women to wear Burqas, because even a woman's face is considered part of what is reserved for her husband. So how do we say where the line should be drawn? Followed to the extreme, it could lead to women being cloistered away so no one sees their beauty but their husbands...and does in some parts of the world.

 

I'm not trying to start a fight, I am really curious. I have a feeling that my ideas of modesty, growing up on the coast of Florida, are different than others. I know that I once wore my bathing suit, covered by shorts, to the grocery store here, just to pick up some fruit for a picnic at the springs. It wasn't until I was in the store that I realized people here don't wear bathing suits in stores...but where I was from in S. florida that was totally normal.

[Laura Corin]

I find the cultural aspects of modesty interesting. When I first visited China, women would be covered from their collar bones to their wrists and ankles. These days, young women often wear miniskirts and short sleeves, but nothing low cut. So full leg display - really, the skirts are very short - is fine, but nothing below the collar bone should show. If you think about Chinese dress of the early 20th century (before the Communist regime), it's all there: high collars, but the daring wore their dresses slit to the hip.

 

Laura

[Kathleen in VA]

I think of modesty as more of an attitude than a style of dress. Modesty is really just not drawing attention to oneself. Some clothing can cover the body and yet still be immodest because it draws attention to itself.

 

Immodesty is the attitude of wanting all eyes to turn on you. This can be done in a flirtatious, immoral sort of way, but it can also be done in a self-righteous way as well. The best clothing is that which blends well and does not invite members of the opposite sex to ogle. There is a wide range of clothing that fits those requirements.

[MindyD]

I think of modesty as more of an attitude than a style of dress. Modesty is really just not drawing attention to oneself. Some clothing can cover the body and yet still be immodest because it draws attention to itself.

 

Immodesty is the attitude of wanting all eyes to turn on you. This can be done in a flirtatious, immoral sort of way, but it can also be done in a self-righteous way as well. The best clothing is that which blends well and does not invite members of the opposite sex to ogle. There is a wide range of clothing that fits those requirements.

 

I like this. Well said.

[Laurie4b]

I think of modesty as more of an attitude than a style of dress. Modesty is really just not drawing attention to oneself. Some clothing can cover the body and yet still be immodest because it draws attention to itself.

 

Immodesty is the attitude of wanting all eyes to turn on you. This can be done in a flirtatious, immoral sort of way, but it can also be done in a self-righteous way as well. The best clothing is that which blends well and does not invite members of the opposite sex to ogle. There is a wide range of clothing that fits those requirements.

 

:iagree: Many people miss that immodesty is also about showing off money by the way you dress, not just about sexual immodesty. So "not calling attention to yourself" is a good way to put it, imo, if we're speaking about biblical commands for modesty.

 

interestingly, that "not calling attention to oneself" is also addressed in the positive command about self-adornment being about your good works. ie No one sees good works (they don't call attention to themselves), but God does. What makes you beautiful is who you are, not how you dress. I Tim 2:9-10

Edited August 10, 2010 by Laurie4b

[JVA]

I think of modesty as more of an attitude than a style of dress. Modesty is really just not drawing attention to oneself. Some clothing can cover the body and yet still be immodest because it draws attention to itself.

 

Immodesty is the attitude of wanting all eyes to turn on you. This can be done in a flirtatious, immoral sort of way, but it can also be done in a self-righteous way as well. The best clothing is that which blends well and does not invite members of the opposite sex to ogle. There is a wide range of clothing that fits those requirements.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Katherine has said it very articulately. Kudos!

[Lizzie in Ma]

I say this for several reasons because it has come up over the last few years here at our home.

We have a stunning 14 year old that just happens to have very large breasts. It is difficult if not impossible for her to not have some cleavage showing regardless of what she wears. In addition she has sensory issues and a health issue and can't wear anything tight fitting without getting large weals on her body. (Try having to wear a DDD bra with that problem) Becoming overly warm and sweating also causes hives.

 

In any case, she is very modest, she wears calf length skirts and ballet neck t-shirts as her usual wardrobe.

 

We have had some awful experiences in our church on teen trips, requiring her to wear a t-shirt over a bathing suit (only her) and suggesting she wear layers under her t-shirts (in 90 degree heat plus the hive issue).

Other small breasted girls her age wear tankinis and show a lot more than our dd but no one says anything.

The legalism is disgusting and we are so so sick of it.

 

She is modest in her heart and demeanor, she serves faithfully and more than anyone else her age in the church, behind the scenes and it makes me so angry when people make her feel badly because of her bra size.

 

 

 

edit: Sorry, ranting just a bit, this has been so hurtful. Thanks for listening. :)

Edited August 10, 2010 by Lizzie in Ma

[Laurie4b]

I say this for several reasons because it has come up over the last few years here at our home.

We have a stunning 14 year old that just happens to have very large breasts. It is difficult if not impossible for her to not have some cleavage showing regardless of what she wears. In addition she has sensory issues and a health issue and can't wear anything tight fitting without getting large weals on her body. (Try having to wear a DDD bra with that problem) Becoming overly warm and sweating also causes hives.

 

In any case, she is very modest, she wears calf length skirts and ballet neck t-shirts as her usual wardrobe.

 

We have had some awful experiences in our church on teen trips, requiring her to wear a t-shirt over a bathing suit (only her) and suggesting she wear layers under her t-shirts (in 90 degree heat plus the hive issue).

Other small breasted girls her age wear tankinis and show a lot more than our dd but no one says anything.

The legalism is disgusting and we are so so sick of it.

 

She is modest in her heart and demeanor, she serves faithfully and more than anyone else her age in the church, behind the scenes and it makes me so angry when people make her feel badly because of her bra size.

 

Wow. I hope you have called them on that.

[BikeBookBread]

I think of modesty as more of an attitude than a style of dress. Modesty is really just not drawing attention to oneself. Some clothing can cover the body and yet still be immodest because it draws attention to itself.

 

Immodesty is the attitude of wanting all eyes to turn on you. This can be done in a flirtatious, immoral sort of way, but it can also be done in a self-righteous way as well. The best clothing is that which blends well and does not invite members of the opposite sex to ogle. There is a wide range of clothing that fits those requirements.

 

Great definition! ITA...

[FaithManor]

I think C.S. Lewis is right about it being culturally based. My parents did some mission's work in Africa at a hospital and discovered that in this particular country, booKs are no big deal at all....only there to feed babies, but look out for those knees....now they just send a man into a tizzy! No joke, any woman who didn't keep her entire knee completely covered was considered a harlot!

 

That said, I hate legalism. We are fairly conservative in dress here but I don't like rules that aren't applied across the board or make the clothing issue so front and center, that it ends up getting way more attention than it should. Additionally, anything health related should be of concern to the leadership and accomodated. Health trumps rules everytime at least in my book!

 

This is one reason that the youth pastor announced that the August pool parties would be held in separate locations. One for boys, one for girls. He says it takes a lot of pressure off he, his wife, and the kids because they don't have to worry about all of the opinions within the congregation. The girls are going to have quite a girly, girl party with no guys around and can literally wear whatever they want. The boys are going to have a frolicking boy, wrestling, water volleyball, water balloon dodgeball, you name it wild party and again, if someone is daft enough to show up in a speedo...so what...it's guys only.

 

Sigh, there just isn't ay easy answer to the whole issue.

Faith

[Caitilin]

I think of modesty as more of an attitude than a style of dress. Modesty is really just not drawing attention to oneself. Some clothing can cover the body and yet still be immodest because it draws attention to itself.

 

Immodesty is the attitude of wanting all eyes to turn on you. This can be done in a flirtatious, immoral sort of way, but it can also be done in a self-righteous way as well.....

 

I agree with Kathleen, particularly with the bold. Although, I will be interested to see the responses, as I participated in a thread in the last year on this topic, expressed this view, and was roundly shut down by those who said it's all about the amount of skin showing. Anyway, Kathleen, great explanation!

[Peela]

Modesty relates to not being boastful, to obeying cultural guidelines and manners,but also to moderate,rather than extreme behavior,according to the dictionary. To go to extremes to be modest is virtually turning modesty on it's head because it is paying too much attention to oneself or the issue of modesty.

From that perspective, I would have thought that modesty is more of a balanced attitude towards oneself,rather than wanting to stand out....but also, not wanting to make a fuss about hiding either. Just ordinary.

So making too much of a fuss about modesty whether one's own or another, is inherently immodest.

[Greta]

edit: Sorry, ranting just a bit, this has been so hurtful. Thanks for listening. :)

 

You don't need to apologize. I can only imagine how upset I would be in your shoes. The thought of people making my daughter feel ashamed of her body that way . . . :cursing:

[FaithManor]

Peela,

 

Great definition! The interesting thing is that when I was at a homeschool conference in Cincinnati three years ago, there was a very wide array of dress amongst the participants and though there were some people wearing short skirts and cleavage showing they were not the ones that drew attention to themselves. There was another group of individuals that had very, very distinctive dress. It was different from anything the Amish or Mennonite wear around here. The dresses had these huge cowls on them; covered just about everything but their feet and hands. This is what drew attention. So, by the above definition, these clothes would be immodest. It's sort of like wearing an evening gown to make a deposit at the bank. It's so out of the ordinary that, boy oh boy, it's going to draw a lot of stares.

 

My sister, the psychologist/social worker, says that the effect of a bikini on the streets vs. at the beach is very different. Everyone who goes to the beach expects to see swimwear and bikini's so it doesn't draw attention. Out on the streets, minding your own business on the way to the bank, that very same bikini is a show stopper. She's right, it has to do a lot with what is appropriate for the circumstance. Maybe that is why I get so ticked off to see people show up to the symphony in jeans with holes and stained t-shirts....excuse me, these people have worked their entire lives to provide you with this concert - they are all wearing tuxedos - the least you could do is put on clothing that isn't meant for the trash bag! So, I guess one could say that in this instance the nasty t-shirt and jeans is "immodest" because it is really drawing the attention of the concert goers.

 

One could also make the case that Americans are just so ADHD that if we could concentrate on what we are doing, we wouldn't be so worried about everyone else! LOL probably some truth to that!

 

Faith

[KJsMom]

I think of modesty as more of an attitude than a style of dress. Modesty is really just not drawing attention to oneself. Some clothing can cover the body and yet still be immodest because it draws attention to itself.

 

Immodesty is the attitude of wanting all eyes to turn on you. This can be done in a flirtatious, immoral sort of way, but it can also be done in a self-righteous way as well. The best clothing is that which blends well and does not invite members of the opposite sex to ogle. There is a wide range of clothing that fits those requirements.

:iagree: Our church, as well as just about all the others, has occasional problems with seriously immodestly dressed young girls. To my knowledge, no one ever confronts these girls. Our view is that if the girls are sitting in our church hearing the word of God, the Holy Spirit and our loving attitudes will lead the girls to dress more modestly. When I was a young teen I was one of those girls. I remember exactly how it felt to be told I couldn't wear my short skirts to church. I didn't return to church until after my oldest dd was born. It isn't easy to sit in church with my girls when their are so many booKs on display, but I try to remember how it felt to be those girls. They are just looking for love and acceptance. And I think I turned out ok. :D

[Greta]

My sister, the psychologist/social worker, says that the effect of a bikini on the streets vs. at the beach is very different. Everyone who goes to the beach expects to see swimwear and bikini's so it doesn't draw attention. Out on the streets, minding your own business on the way to the bank, that very same bikini is a show stopper. She's right, it has to do a lot with what is appropriate for the circumstance.

 

Yes, I think your sister is on to something! I don't think modesty or appropriate dress is something that exists outside of a social context.

 

When I go to church, I dress in a way that is modest and appropriate *for church*. When I go to a swimming pool (no beaches around here), I dress in a way that is modest and appropriate *for swimming*. But my swimming suit would not be appropriate at church, any more than my church dress would be appropriate for the pool! :lol:

 

If I were to visit a country where the standards of modesty were more restrictive than what I am used to, I would do my best to dress in a way that was modest by the local standards, even if that meant covered from collar to ankles and wrists. But if you find me in a surf shop on the beach, I'll likely be in a swimsuit, shorts, and flip-flops. It's ALL about context. I try to dress appropriately for the situation, because that, to me, is what modesty means.

 

And just a personal pet peeve of mine. I don't know if this is a local thing or what. But young women showing up at grocery stores and shopping malls wearing pajamas and slippers - what is up with that?!? They may have a "sufficient" amount of skin covered but I still think that is immodest! Declaring to the world that it is far too much trouble for you to change clothes when you get out of bed in the morning? Well maybe "lazy" is more appropriate than "immodest", but it bugs me to no end! :lol:

[Ginevra]

My sister, the psychologist/social worker, says that the effect of a bikini on the streets vs. at the beach is very different. Everyone who goes to the beach expects to see swimwear and bikini's so it doesn't draw attention. Out on the streets, minding your own business on the way to the bank, that very same bikini is a show stopper. She's right, it has to do a lot with what is appropriate for the circumstance.

 

I agree with this. There are lots of shades of difference, even within the USA, of what is considered modest and what is roundly considered immodest. I was at a Subway restaurant recently where a girl got in line in her bikini. No doubt, this was because she was swimming at the attached hotel pool. But it looked rude to me. If we were *at* the pool, I would not be bothered, but at the restaurant, she really wanted a t-shirt. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think the "drawing attention" aspect is an important point. I had a conversation with someone once who did not allow her son to keep a jacket he had bought with his own money because it looked (and was) very expensive. She felt it was immodest because it promoted pride and vanity. I have not ever done similarly, but I think it is a good point. Worth remembering for myself as well.

[naturegirl7]

Modesty relates to not being boastful, to obeying cultural guidelines and manners,but also to moderate,rather than extreme behavior,according to the dictionary. To go to extremes to be modest is virtually turning modesty on it's head because it is paying too much attention to oneself or the issue of modesty.

From that perspective, I would have thought that modesty is more of a balanced attitude towards oneself,rather than wanting to stand out....but also, not wanting to make a fuss about hiding either. Just ordinary.

So making too much of a fuss about modesty whether one's own or another, is inherently immodest.

 

:iagree: Well said! It also varies with situation too. Some clothing or behavior is outrageous in specific settings and acceptable in others.

 

 

I also think that it is more an attitude than a manner of dressing - you can be completely covered in clothing but talk and move VERY provactively and thus attract alot of negative attention.

Yet, on the flip side, you can wear an elegant but cleavage or leg revealing dress at a cocktail party or a bikini at the beach and still give off a CLASSY vibe.

[naturegirl7]

If I were to visit a country where the standards of modesty were more restrictive than what I am used to, I would do my best to dress in a way that was modest by the local standards, even if that meant covered from collar to ankles and wrists. But if you find me in a surf shop on the beach, I'll likely be in a swimsuit, shorts, and flip-flops. It's ALL about context. I try to dress appropriately for the situation, because that, to me, is what modesty means.

 

And just a personal pet peeve of mine. I don't know if this is a local thing or what. But young women showing up at grocery stores and shopping malls wearing pajamas and slippers - what is up with that?!? They may have a "sufficient" amount of skin covered but I still think that is immodest! Declaring to the world that it is far too much trouble for you to change clothes when you get out of bed in the morning? Well maybe "lazy" is more appropriate than "immodest", but it bugs me to no end! :lol:

 

I totally agree! especially on the PJ pet peeve - they actually dress in PJs to go out - what is wrong with these girls?! If you take the time to do your hair and makeup and put on fresh clothes, why are you putting on fresh PJs - cuz you want to give off that girl next door bedroom vibe? UGH!

[BikeBookBread]

Modesty relates to not being boastful, to obeying cultural guidelines and manners,but also to moderate,rather than extreme behavior,according to the dictionary. To go to extremes to be modest is virtually turning modesty on it's head because it is paying too much attention to oneself or the issue of modesty.

From that perspective, I would have thought that modesty is more of a balanced attitude towards oneself,rather than wanting to stand out....but also, not wanting to make a fuss about hiding either. Just ordinary.

So making too much of a fuss about modesty whether one's own or another, is inherently immodest.

 

Another great definition. I think many have forgotten that the root of "modesty" is "moderate"...BALANCED...as you said, Peela :)

[Greta]

- cuz you want to give off that girl next door bedroom vibe? UGH!

 

Ohhhh, is that what it is?? I guess I'm slow. It's just that big fuzzy bunny slippers and baggy flannel pajama pants don't scream sexy to me, but maybe I'm out of touch with the tastes of young men these days! :lol:

[mommaduck]

What IS the culture though? There are often battling or a mix of cultures. In the city, you have people from a variety of cultures and they dress in a variety of ways. Some stick out due to style, some due to coverage, some due to lack of coverage, some are identifiable as a particular place in the world, some as being part of a particular type of faith, etc. Same in certain areas of the country. You have the haves and the have nots, those that are anabaptists, etc. So what are we trying to blend in with, should we try to blend in with a particular group, and why?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I totally agree! especially on the PJ pet peeve - they actually dress in PJs to go out - what is wrong with these girls?! If you take the time to do your hair and makeup and put on fresh clothes, why are you putting on fresh PJs - cuz you want to give off that girl next door bedroom vibe? UGH!

 

Cuz they're comfy. :D & fun. :D & some of us don't care what other people think of our clothing. ;)

 

(Yes, I have pj pants that I wear out of the house. No, I don't wear slippers and a housecoat with them - usually a t-shirt or tank top. Hoodie if it's chilly.)

 

To the topic itself: modesty, IMO, is something that everyone is going to define for themselves, influenced by their family, friends, faith, culture, etc etc etc.

 

The trouble generally starts when people try to define modesty for others.

[Meriwether]

not drawing attention to oneself

 

not wearing a swimsuit to church and not wearing a suit and tie to the swimming pool, to give extreme examples

[Daisy]

This is a GREAT thread! I have nothing to add just wanted to give it a big thumbs up.

 

:thumbup:

[smrtmama]

Modesty is also a self-ascribed, self-enforced INTERNAL behavior. If someone else is making you, pressuring you, creating EXTERNAL standards for you, etc., it's not modesty.

[Ame E.]

Great topic

 

Skirts to knee, so that knee is covered when you sit down

loose fitting pants

fitted but not tight shirts

necklines high enough not to reveal anything

Half-sleeve rather than sleeveless (except swimwear or swim coverup)

Bathing ware, body should be covered.. one piece bathing suits wear shorts or skorts

No 10-inch high heels..

No nose rings, etc..

[mommaduck]

Great topic

 

Skirts to knee, so that knee is covered when you sit down

loose fitting pants

fitted but not tight shirts

necklines high enough not to reveal anything

Half-sleeve rather than sleeveless (except swimwear or swim coverup)

Bathing ware, body should be covered.. one piece bathing suits wear shorts or skorts

No 10-inch high heels..

No nose rings, etc..

Well, I guess that shoots down one of the most known women of the bible who was given a nose ring by her fiance. I'm going to guess that other famous women of the bible also had nose rings that just weren't mentioned. Drat...all those terribly immodest women...

 

*tongue in cheek, but making a point* :tongue_smilie: There are a lot of VERY modest women that have nose rings (I'm not one of them and it wouldn't look good on me, but I've seen some that were hardly noticable and actually looked nice on those persons).

[Ame E.]

Well, I guess that shoots down one of the most known women of the bible who was given a nose ring by her fiance. I'm going to guess that other famous women of the bible also had nose rings that just weren't mentioned. Drat...all those terribly immodest women...

 

*tongue in cheek, but making a point* :tongue_smilie: There are a lot of VERY modest women that have nose rings (I'm not one of them and it wouldn't look good on me, but I've seen some that were hardly noticable and actually looked nice on those persons).

 

Your point is made...

 

the guidelines I stated were guidelines for our family... Also, because this topic comes up a lot... because of the culture we live in..simple guidelines are best...

 

I think you have to look at everything in it's context... Our culture has embraced piercing... and it's a return to primitivism... at least that's how we see it... You're right it does not deal directly with modesty.. as we think of it... so it was a bit off topic..

Edited August 11, 2010 by Ame E.

[mommaduck]

Yes, a lot of people are embracing it. Personally, in a multicultural society, we also have to take some people individually. There may be one group of people doing it for one reason and another doing it for another. So we can't be quick to jump to conclusions (though there are times where other things about them may clue us in on why or which cultural background they might have...I'm a TCK, so I don't fit in anyone's box to start with).

 

And I hope I didn't offend...I really was trying to be lighthearted :) Sometimes we just look at the culture we are in or identify with and things look different when we widen the picture frame (context or context within context, kwim?).

[OrganicAnn]

My sister was in the Peace Corp in a African country where topless women where as accepted as men going shirtless. Breasts were not sexualized (if that is a word). Often women did not go topless, but their tops were loose and not concerned about what is covered. But in that country it was scandalous if women wore pants, any styles that showed off the bottom, thighs was a no no. This was several years ago, these things do change over time.

[Rosie_0801]

So what are we trying to blend in with, should we try to blend in with a particular group, and why?

 

I try to blend in with people I like and care not to offend; and, if I can't avoid 'em, those I'd rather not deal with the fall out from.

 

;)

Rosie

[Amy loves Bud]

I think of modesty as more of an attitude than a style of dress. Modesty is really just not drawing attention to oneself. Some clothing can cover the body and yet still be immodest because it draws attention to itself.

 

Immodesty is the attitude of wanting all eyes to turn on you. This can be done in a flirtatious, immoral sort of way, but it can also be done in a self-righteous way as well. The best clothing is that which blends well and does not invite members of the opposite sex to ogle. There is a wide range of clothing that fits those requirements.

 

But I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to be attractive. Take out the dipping cleavage and the hip-high slits from teh conversation for a minute. We still dress to be attractive. Is it necessary to wear shapeless, colorless clothing, no make up and no hairstyle to be modest?

 

I personally like to see men and women who pay attention to their appearance - who wear clothes that fit well, know what colors set off their eyes, who have some style. It's not a sexual attraction thing, just an appreciation of something lovely.

 

The Proverbs 31 woman dressed in a way that was attention-getting, yet she wasn't considered immodest.

 

So I'm curious where the line is.

[Reesegirl]

Two years ago My dd spent 2 months in Zambia, on the continent of Africa, in mission work over the summer. She had to wear a skirt or a wrap around her waist whenever they were out in the townships. All the women covered their hips and legs with skirts. So at least in this counrty it still was accepted as the proper dressing for women.

[Britomart]

Yes, a lot of people are embracing it. Personally, in a multicultural society, we also have to take some people individually. There may be one group of people doing it for one reason and another doing it for another. So we can't be quick to jump to conclusions (though there are times where other things about them may clue us in on why or which cultural background they might have...I'm a TCK, so I don't fit in anyone's box to start with).

 

I appreciate your point. I have a nose ring, and I honestly considered where I was living first because I think modesty is largely (but not completely) a matter of context. I thought about it, and decided that if I were living somewhere very, very conservative, I wouldn't have gotten it pierced; I wouldn't have wanted to send an offensive message. But I live in SoCal, where every other woman has her nose pierced, and it really isn't making any statement other than "I think this is pretty" - much like a flowered skirt or a nice scarf, you know? What a nose ring (or dress or swimsuit or headscarf) says depends largely on where (and why) it's worn.

 

If I wore a chapel veil to the grocery store, you'd think I was weird. If I wore one to an audience with the Pope, you'd think I was polite.

[Kathleen in VA]

But I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to be attractive. Take out the dipping cleavage and the hip-high slits from teh conversation for a minute. We still dress to be attractive. Is it necessary to wear shapeless, colorless clothing, no make up and no hairstyle to be modest?

 

I personally like to see men and women who pay attention to their appearance - who wear clothes that fit well, know what colors set off their eyes, who have some style. It's not a sexual attraction thing, just an appreciation of something lovely.

 

The Proverbs 31 woman dressed in a way that was attention-getting, yet she wasn't considered immodest.

 

So I'm curious where the line is.

 

I am coming at this from a Christian viewpoint, just so that's clear.:)

 

I think it's important to consider that others have to look at you. It is a kindness to think about that when you dress. For that reason, I would try to dress in a way that is pleasing to the eye, but that doesn't say "touch me." I also think that "shapeless, colorless clothing, no make up and no hairstyle" is NOT blending - it can be immodest in that it draws attention to one's frumpiness. Dressing like that can be a way of being self-righteous - "Look at how lowly I dress, how poor I am, how plain and unassuming - I must be a holy person." Kwim?

 

The line is in your heart. Do you want to dress to please the Lord Jesus Christ or do you want to dress to please yourself? There is no list to refer to. Each individual must examine his/her own heart and search the issue out personally.

 

Only the individual knows whether they are trying to attract attention for the wrong reason. This is a matter between each person and God.

 

It is possible nowadays to wear a calf-length jean skirt with a non-clingy kind of top and stand out in a crowd. Lots of ladies just don't wear skirts/dresses all that much any more. But, if the person who is dressing like that is truly doing so because they believe it is what God wants them to do, then they will just have to stick out a bit. Ultimately, each individual must do what their own conscience can bear in spite of what others think. Better to err on the side of caution though, imo. I think of the Islamic woman who wears a burqa here in the United States. Her conscience could not bear wearing anything else in public. It would be wrong for her to dress otherwise even though she stands out. Others need to accommodate that and accept it lovingly. The same acceptance should be shown to anyone who is dressing according to their conscience.

 

The main thing is one's attitude - not one's dress. An open, kind, friendly demeanor can go a long way no matter what one is wearing.

 

I also think it is extremely important not to judge others in this regard. Everyone is at a different place in their walk. There are people whom God has placed in authority who may be able to gently guide someone who is oblivious to this issue - a pastor or pastor's wife or parents for example. A loving friend may be able to suggest changes to a young lady (or perhaps not so young) who may not realize what their clothing choices are saying to others. But this isn't for everyone to do. The motive for such a conversation must be love and absolutely nothing else. It is just as much a sin for someone to look down their nose at a person who does not meet their personal standard for dress, as it is to dress improperly. We should all be making an effort to examine ourselves personally and allow others do so as well.