Insomnia in children......

[BettyL]

I was just reading a post about adult insomnia and wondered if any of your children struggle with this as my 8yo DD does. We have tried everything! We have a good schedule, lots of exercise, we don't allow screen time or sweets before bed. She doesn't have any food or behavioral issues. It takes her f-o-r-e-v-e-r to get to sleep and then she often wakes up and wanders around, sleeping many different places in the night. Anyone have any suggestions? Thank you in advance.

[MyBlueLobsters]

I was just reading a post about adult insomnia and wondered if any of your children struggle with this as my 8yo DD does. We have tried everything! We have a good schedule, lots of exercise, we don't allow screen time or sweets before bed. She doesn't have any food or behavioral issues. It takes her f-o-r-e-v-e-r to get to sleep and then she often wakes up and wanders around, sleeping many different places in the night. Anyone have any suggestions? Thank you in advance.

 

 

My 9 year old has the same problem. He takes Melatonin before bed every night. A 3mg pill. Works wonders. HTH!

[BettyL]

Emily,

 

How was your son diagnosed? Are there any side effects or long term issues to consider?

[TeenagerMom]

My 9 year old has the same problem. He takes Melatonin before bed every night. A 3mg pill. Works wonders. HTH!

 

 

Ditto this:iagree::iagree::iagree:! Melatonin is the ONLY reason my 7 year old sleeps.

 

He NEVER slept (max of 3 hours per night) until 3 years old when the doctor finally medicated him because I was losing my mind from sleep deprivation.

[Lovedtodeath]

Melatonin can cause nightmares and migraines. GABA is another to try. Though it can cause migraines as well. Almost all of them can.

 

Oh, you know what helps me... I will have to look up the names and be back.

[Mabelen]

The only thing that really helps my now 13 yo dd is fresh air, plenty of it throughout the day, a busy schedule, and exercise, preferably outdoor exercise.

[Melissa in FL]

Melatonin can cause nightmares and migraines. GABA is another to try. Though it can cause migraines as well. Almost all of them can.

 

Oh, you know what helps me... I will have to look up the names and be back.

 

:iagree: GABA helped my son!

Melissa

[sheryl]

I was just reading a post about adult insomnia and wondered if any of your children struggle with this as my 8yo DD does. We have tried everything! We have a good schedule, lots of exercise, we don't allow screen time or sweets before bed. She doesn't have any food or behavioral issues. It takes her f-o-r-e-v-e-r to get to sleep and then she often wakes up and wanders around, sleeping many different places in the night. Anyone have any suggestions? Thank you in advance.

 

 

Have you considered a sleep study? Our insurance company paid for us.

[Only me]

I wish I knew since it has been over 2 years since my 15 year old daughter started with her severe insomnia. Nothing has been able to help her but here are a few suggestions that we were given. Maybe something will help you:

 

Melatonin, Gaba, milk and a good snack before bed, plenty of exercise and fresh air during the day, blocking out artificial light before bed (no TV, computers, lights). We got special glasses that block out the blue light so that she could still see but that hasn't helped either. Using a light box first thing in the morning or getting outside as soon as possible. Warm bath and lavender scented spray for pillowcase. She also tried a gluten free diet for 6 months since gluten sensitivity can also cause insomnia.

 

Strict bedtime and wakeup time and limiting the time in bed. She wasn't allowed to get into bed until 2 am and then we had to wake her up at 10 am the next day so that she would only be in bed for 8 hours. If she didn't fall asleep after 1/2 hour she had to get out of her bed and try again in 1/2 hour. We also tried keeping her up until 3 am and then letting her sleep for 8 hours. The next night we would keep her up until 2:30 and let her sleep for 8 hours. This was supposed to gradually reset her clock to the right time.

 

We also tried Benadryl but it actually makes her hyper. The doctors tried her on about 8 different sleeping pills but none worked. Definitely wouldn't recommend that for a young child though.

 

You might want to get a sleep study done. That way they can rule out things like sleep apnea and restless leg syndrome. They can also see what kind of sleep the child is actually getting (which phases and for how long) and also how long it takes to fall asleep, how often they are waking up.

 

I wish I could help more. I know it is a miserable situation.

[Lolly]

My eldest. Nothing works for her. Nothing. They do finally get old enough to just take care of themselves. It is kinda sad. She lives at night, alone.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I give my kids "calms forte" - it relaxes them and helps them get to sleep. We also use melatonin 3 mg. Another thing to try is calcium and/or magnesium. There is a product called "children's Calm" that is flavored magnesium powder that you mix into a drink.

[MistyJ]

Melatonin has worked like a charm for my dd. But be careful...it can cause depression in some kids. She had started to become very tearful and hopeless after a couple of years...we recently stopped giving it to her, and her mood seems to have brightened.

[flobee76]

I give my kids "calms forte" - it relaxes them and helps them get to sleep. We also use melatonin 3 mg. Another thing to try is calcium and/or magnesium. There is a product called "children's Calm" that is flavored magnesium powder that you mix into a drink.

:iagree: We've used Calms Forte 4Kids before and it's amazing. Helped soothe our DD's night terrors during growing spurts or over-tiredness.

[NanceXToo]

It seems to take my daughter a really long time to fall asleep, too. Not so long ago I had my husband look up melatonin online to see what it said about it, as I'd seen a couple of people here mention it.

 

Then he found something in the list of possible side effects that mentioned possibly affecting fertility and that scared me off pretty quickly.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It seems to take my daughter a really long time to fall asleep, too. Not so long ago I had my husband look up melatonin online to see what it said about it, as I'd seen a couple of people here mention it.

 

Then he found something in the list of possible side effects that mentioned possibly affecting fertility and that scared me off pretty quickly.

 

That is surprising to me since melatonin is a hormone that is produced by our bodies. 5-HTP is another hormone that our body produces that is a precursor to melatonin.

[MyBlueLobsters]

Emily,

 

How was your son diagnosed? Are there any side effects or long term issues to consider?

 

I talked to his Dr and he said it was okay to try Melatonin. I haven't noticed any negative side effects. In fact, we've had less stressful and less tears at school since he's been sleeping better!

 

Melatonin can cause nightmares and migraines. GABA is another to try. Though it can cause migraines as well. Almost all of them can.

.

 

I have heard about GABA too. I would have tried that if the Melatonin didn't work. My brother had nightmares when he took the Melatonin.

[mamamace]

Neuroscience is a company that offers tests for kids and adults to measure neurotransmitter levels. I was struggling so much after the birth of my third, and my naturopath suggested doing a test. You give a urine sample and send it away to them. They test it and send you the results...like real numbers(!) of your serotonin, gaba, epinephrine, etc. They also provide a regimen of supplements to help correct the imbalances. These imbalances can cause many problems in our bodies from insomnia to anxiety and depression. The website is neurorelief.com where you can do some research.

 

I know how terrible lack of sleep can be. I pray for rest and peace for your family.

Amber

[BettyL]

Thank you for your suggestions. I guess I'm not at the point of seeking medication. DD amuses herself when she can't sleep. After laying there for a while she will read, play with her stuffed animals or toys.I have tried every other suggestion you have all listed except for the glasses to filter out blue light. She has very limited screen time, is on a regular bed schedule, gets lots of exercise, eats very healthily and is overall a very happy child.

 

My dd is not sleepy or irritable at all during the day. I virtually never see her yawn. She is always still awake when I wander to bed at midnight. Could she only need about 6-7 hours a night and be rested? I have an ongoing heart issue, so I need 9-10 hours of sleep to function. Maybe I'm just thinking she needs more hours of sleep than she really does?

 

I'm also wondering if her cats are waking her up to play in the night. Maybe once they wake her she can't go back to sleep. We will try shutting the downstairs door to keep them out of her room at night. Maybe that will make a difference.

 

Thank you again for your input and support!

[BettyL]

I will look into whether my insurance company does cover sleep studies. I will also be researching these other medications and tests that have been suggested.

 

Thank you again!

[Lovedtodeath]

The things that seem to help me, though aren't sleep inducing drugs like Melatonin or GABA, so YMMV... I have been prescribed them at various points.

 

Calm Magnesium powder... you mix it in with boiling water. Can cause diarrhea at large doses but is often needed by people suffering from insomnia.

 

Monavie Acai Berry Juice... something in this calms my mood for the whole day and improves sleep. I don't know what it is.

 

Immunocal this is a milk protein powder that is a powerful antioxidant. It seems to help me get to sleep at a decent time.

 

Trauma Life essential oil, rub on palms and waft around.

 

Doc said that the kids can take all of them. HTH!

 

:iagree: We've used Calms Forte 4Kids before and it's amazing. Helped soothe our DD's night terrors during growing spurts or over-tiredness.

Where do you get this?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Where do you get this?

 

Calms Forte 4kids or just the Calms forte have gotten pretty mainstream. I get mine at a health/vitamin store but I've also seen it at the local pharmacy and even our grocery store. Often they have it in the baby aisle.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks. I looked for it at Walmart. lol They didn't have it. I need to use my Trauma Life more often. It was prescribed for Jake a while ago and I forget that I have it.

[jenL]

Funny that you posted this thread (well, not that your dd can't sleep) as my 7yo just came downstairs almost 2 hours after we put him to bed because he can't sleep. It seems his Melatonin is not working tonight. We started him at 1.5 mg (1/2 tablet) per recommendation by his pediatrician at age 4, and now we're at a whole tablet (3 mg). Apparently, children can take up to 6mg, but we haven't needed to go that high.

 

I hope you find relief for your dd. We've been dealing with this with our son for years, and it can be difficult.

[Heather in OK]

Homeopathic Valerian (we use the one made by Energetix) works for my 10yo when she can't sleep due to her mind racing. I've taken it a few times too when my mind won't shut down and it works wonders!! Not sure if that is your dd's reason for insomnia but just thought I'd throw that out there.

[gracesteacher]

I am a sleep tech. I work in a ped lab. Kids sleep amts can vary. Melatonin is not FDA regulated so one night you can get a pill that is 1mg and the next night 7mg. One of the drs I worked with did a research project with the pills and even with the same bottle there were varying amts

 

Basically once it has been ruled out that nothing is physically going on with her sleep then we advise parents to make sure the child has a cool dark room with no TV no pets and if necessary no siblings Some kids need 14hrs of sleep but most need at least 8 to 9 If she hasnt fall asleep after about a half hour (dont have a clock in the room) get up and do something that will not arouse her (ie playing) reading a boring book in a darkened room. then after about 15min or so go back and lay down and just breathe dont think just breathe listen to your breath and dont think and if after what feels like a half hour get up and do the same.

 

How tired is she thru out the day?

Have her do the Epworth sleep scale to see how bad teh problem is for her

When she does sleep can you hear her? Movements? Snoring her respirations?

 

 

Good luck

[Catherine]

Has your son ever slept with you, as a baby? My just-turned 9 yo was joining me in the night every night around 3 AM until dh insisted he stop about a year ago. He has been getting up between 5 and 6, and having much more trouble going to sleep than he ever did before. Our compromise is that I sit with him until he is sleeping, and he is allowed to wake me if he can't sleep during the night-I sit with him again until he is sleeping (this rarely takes even 5 minutes).

 

I don't believe our biology intends for us to sleep alone as children. Many children manage it just fine, but the prevalence of sleep disorders like many of you have described, and the widespread practice of co-sleeping in many cultures until puberty suggests we are meant to sleep with others. Just my 2 cents.

[BettyL]

gracesteacher,

 

Thank you for your insights. My dd scored a 0 on the Epworth scale. The only time she has ever fallen asleep in front of a television or in the car has been when she is sick. She is NOT tired or cranky throughout the day. However, her mother, at times, is :lol:.

 

I have watched her sleep and it is very peaceful, no snoring, no movement. She has occasionally slept with us during thunderstorms and moves very little. There are no jerky, sudden movements.

 

Thanks you for the drug information as well. I appreciate your input!

[Lolly]

Thank you for your suggestions. I guess I'm not at the point of seeking medication. DD amuses herself when she can't sleep. After laying there for a while she will read, play with her stuffed animals or toys.I have tried every other suggestion you have all listed except for the glasses to filter out blue light. She has very limited screen time, is on a regular bed schedule, gets lots of exercise, eats very healthily and is overall a very happy child.

 

My dd is not sleepy or irritable at all during the day. I virtually never see her yawn. She is always still awake when I wander to bed at midnight. Could she only need about 6-7 hours a night and be rested? I have an ongoing heart issue, so I need 9-10 hours of sleep to function. Maybe I'm just thinking she needs more hours of sleep than she really does?

 

I'm also wondering if her cats are waking her up to play in the night. Maybe once they wake her she can't go back to sleep. We will try shutting the downstairs door to keep them out of her room at night. Maybe that will make a difference.

 

Thank you again for your input and support!

 

This really sounds like she is doing just fine. Unfortunately or fortunately, it is your problem not hers! I know a girl like her. She only needs about 4-5 hours of sleep a day. She sleeps from about 3 or 4 a.m.-8 a.m. For her, that is plenty. She is at her most alert from 9 or 10 at night until 3 in the morning. She is now 10. Her father, a single parent, always looks exhausted!

[Lovedtodeath]

Has your son ever slept with you, as a baby? My just-turned 9 yo was joining me in the night every night around 3 AM until dh insisted he stop about a year ago. He has been getting up between 5 and 6, and having much more trouble going to sleep than he ever did before. Our compromise is that I sit with him until he is sleeping, and he is allowed to wake me if he can't sleep during the night-I sit with him again until he is sleeping (this rarely takes even 5 minutes).

 

I don't believe our biology intends for us to sleep alone as children. Many children manage it just fine, but the prevalence of sleep disorders like many of you have described, and the widespread practice of co-sleeping in many cultures until puberty suggests we are meant to sleep with others. Just my 2 cents.

We co-sleep with both of our children and they still keep us up all night.:tongue_smilie:

[gracesteacher]

I am anti co sleeping. Before going in to sleep i honestly had no opinion on it. Now that I have had to do studies on kids who have a parent in the bed and how many time the parents move in bed and or snores and how many times that wakes the child i am against it.

I had a situation one night where the 8 yr old needed to have his mom in his bed and she was told that she could stay in there until he feel asleep and I would go in there when he go to deep sleep so it would not distrub him when she got out but her leg movements where so bad that he could not get in to deep sleep. She had no idea her she had leg movements they were small movements and if I wasnt looking for them because of the artifact on the test but they were enough to wake up for threee to five seconds with every movement.

I have seen that with parents in the room who snore. I have had to have parent sit up all night in a dark room but cause there snoring was so bad.

[Lovedtodeath]

But then if a child is used to co-sleeping then not having the parent there disturbs sleep. Not to mention the parent's sleep when the child wakes up and stays up because the parent wasn't there. ;)

[gracesteacher]

A child was also use to wetting in a diaper and was trained to use the toilet. :tongue_smilie:You can train them to sleep alone successfully.

 

I get you are a pro sleeper. More power to you if that is what you chose to do but I have seen how it effects the child's sleep when they do.

[Lovedtodeath]

I am not arguing with you gracesteacher. Like I said they are keeping us up all night and it is becoming a big problem. They are still asleep right now. I don't know what to do about it. They are 3 and 8. If you have advice I will take it. It is mostly the three year old being hyper and fighting sleep.

[gracesteacher]

I would have you wake them up and then but them to bed at early time tonight for most 3 year olds I reccomend by 8 if you have to silently sit in there room nanny style for a few days then do that. Also what is waking them up at three to come and get in bed with you? The more hyper a child the more tired or an allergic reaction to something in there diet.

Pick a time that you feels is a good get up time and stick to it. To a point you can change a night owl in to a lark. It will take time get them use to sleeping in there own bed. It has taken years to get to this point

 

This is a subject much like my kids only eats so much junk food because he won't eat veggies and some food is better than no food theory that just frustrates me. I am very happy to give out every ounce of knowledge I have because a well rested house is a much happier house

[KidsHappen]

After trying every possible natural cure for insomnia, my 17 year old went on Ambien two years ago. She still only gets maybe 5 or 6 hours of sleep but it is way more than she used to get. My youngest one also has problems sleeping. I will sometime wake at 3:00 in the morning and find her on the computer or watching tv. I have insomnia as well and it is crazy at my house. It doesn't matter what time of day you are wandering the halls, you will run into someone else who is not asleep.

 

I really think the problem in my house is delayed sleep cycles. We can all fall asleep by 4:00 and then sleep until 11:00 or even later sometimes. We have tried to reset our body clocks many time but it just doesn't work. We seem to be hard wired to be night owls.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I would have you wake them up and then but them to bed at early time tonight for most 3 year olds I reccomend by 8 if you have to silently sit in there room nanny style for a few days then do that.

What time is a child getting up with an early bed time like this? No offense taken. I need the help.

[Parrothead]

I'm such a freak of nature. Melatonin actually keeps me awake. Me on melatonin ---> :willy_nilly:

[gracesteacher]

Depends on the child. Most kids at that age need 13 hrs of sleep. Lots survive on less. Mt 3 year old goes to bed at 7 and gets up at 730 or 8. She also lays down from noon to one for rest time (not a nap)

 

Yes esspecially teens are biologically night owls and the older you get you become a lark. (There is a reason they make fun and call it rhe senior early bird special)

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm such a freak of nature. Melatonin actually keeps me awake. Me on melatonin ---> :willy_nilly:

If you stay up past "the window" then your adrenaline kicks in to keep you going. I have read that melatonin only works within 15 minutes to one hour if you go to bed in complete darkness. Light screws it up. (forgive me if you have already tried all that)

 

Depends on the child. Most kids at that age need 13 hrs of sleep. Lots survive on less. Mt 3 year old goes to bed at 7 and gets up at 730 or 8. She also lays down from noon to one for rest time (not a nap)

 

Yes esspecially teens are biologically night owls and the older you get you become a lark. (There is a reason they make fun and call it rhe senior early bird special)

Okay, so how about I get them up at 9 AM (after 7 or 8 hours of sleep) and take them straight to the Museum, zoo or grandmas everyday for a week, then head home for nap time? (oh and when should that be?) Think that will work?

[gracesteacher]

I would try for at least 8 hrs and yes good play hard and outside play

 

With any sleep aide you should take in bed.

[PollyOR]

OP - Sounds like you are doing every thing right. I appreciate you starting this thread as I'm seeing some different options that I wasn't aware of.

 

 

My 15yo dd's sleep pattern was out of whack. She napped every day because she was exhausted from not being able to sleep at night. She takes .25mg of melatonin after supper and then 3mg at bedtime. No lights from electronics after supper (okay, so she fudges on this one). It has helped tremendously even though she really wants to sleep-in later than her 8am wake time. I understand as I'm a night owl myself.

 

Good to know that melatonin can affect depression. My dd has been treated for depression for two years, so we don't want to add to it.

[gracesteacher]

Polly is there any reason she can't sleep in?

[Lolly]

I would have you wake them up and then but them to bed at early time tonight for most 3 year olds I reccomend by 8 if you have to silently sit in there room nanny style for a few days then do that. Also what is waking them up at three to come and get in bed with you? The more hyper a child the more tired or an allergic reaction to something in there diet.

Pick a time that you feels is a good get up time and stick to it. To a point you can change a night owl in to a lark. It will take time get them use to sleeping in there own bed. It has taken years to get to this point

 

This is a subject much like my kids only eats so much junk food because he won't eat veggies and some food is better than no food theory that just frustrates me. I am very happy to give out every ounce of knowledge I have because a well rested house is a much happier house

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Lovedtodeath]

S/O thread... http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1889268#post1889268 Thanks!

[Lovedtodeath]

Funny that you posted this thread (well, not that your dd can't sleep) as my 7yo just came downstairs almost 2 hours after we put him to bed because he can't sleep. It seems his Melatonin is not working tonight. We started him at 1.5 mg (1/2 tablet) per recommendation by his pediatrician at age 4, and now we're at a whole tablet (3 mg). Apparently, children can take up to 6mg, but we haven't needed to go that high.

 

I hope you find relief for your dd. We've been dealing with this with our son for years, and it can be difficult.

 

So I gave them Melatonin, after screaming for a while they were asleep by 11:30 PM. Got up at around 5:45. Now what?I know less than 7 hours of sleep isn't good no matter what.

 

I have a question about Melatonin and kids. If I only give them about 75-150 MCG... that is Micrograms... then am I setting myself up for the early wakings?

[Ottakee]

I have a question about Melatonin and kids. If I only give them about 75-150 MCG... that is Micrograms... then am I setting myself up for the early wakings?

 

Depending on the child that might be enough to make any difference for them. If early/middle of the night wakenings are a problem they do make time release melatonin but you can't break those tablets into 1/2 or quarters, etc.