Is RightStart much better than Singapore?

[imhim]

I am not sure if I am doing a disservice to my children (oldest in second grade) by using Singapore, since it seems most people think RightStart is much better. We always used Singapore, and really enjoyed this past year with 1A and 1B, and it is easy for me to teach, as my background has lots of math. I did try RightStart B and it was going too slowly for us. But maybe I should have stuck with it.

I also used Intensive practive and Challenging Word problems.

I have all Singapore I need for second grade, and already sold RightStart B, but I wonder if I should try it again. Is it really much better?

 

I used a combination of Singapore and Abeka Worktext - to be sure she tests well.

 

What would you do?

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

I often suffer from "the grass is greener" syndrome after making my homeschool curriculum choices.

 

What is important to know is if SM is working for your child. Is he/she understanding the concepts?

 

I think it is just as important to pick a program that you can teach. It does your children no good if you use a program that you are not able to teach. I've had several duds in my homeschooling career -- and they were fine programs and lots of other people like them, but they just didn't work for my teacher style and learning style.

 

And, if it helps, a high school math level curriculum vendor I spoke with at this year's homeschool convention recommended MUS, RS, and SM for elementary level math programs. He believed they all did a good job of teaching the "why" behind math.

[catz]

My son has gone through Singapore 6B and tests great. I think Singapore is a fabulous curriculum - standalone or with supplementary material. I have a math degree too. I will say, we use computer games as reinforcement of math facts and I have been completely hands off on that. My son has no problem with his facts. He did Everyday Math at school for 2 years and that was WAY too much review and reinforcement for him.

 

So, if Singapore is working for you, and RS seemed too slow for your family, you're right. One curriculum that is the perfect fit for one child might be a disastrous fit for another.

 

I don't know anything about Abeka. If your child is not retaining the material and needs more reinforcement, then that may be a good choice. I'm guessing if you are doing the IP and the CWP books, your child is probably in pretty good shape! :001_smile: Good luck!

[Capt_Uhura]

I wouldn't say RS is better than SM. I've taught RS A-E and A-C w/ my 2nd child. RS is complemented well w/ SM CWP. I chose RS over SM b/c at the time, I didn't feel like I could teach SM effectively since I didn't learn math that way. RS gave me the foundation I was lacking. If you read websites that demonstrate how SM is taught in Singapore, it is very much like RS. It's discovery-based which is what I liked about RS. THere is no one perfect curriculum for every kid. If SM works, keep using it! Don't fix what ain't broke! For my kid, RS D/E definitely needs supplementing for decimals and percents b/c those were introductions not mastery. So now that we are finished level E, we'll move into SM 5A/5B and 6A/6B for pre-algebra and mix in some Math Mammoth.

[imhim]

Thank you for your advice -

i will most likely stay with Singapore, but since I still have all the RightStart manipulatives, maybe I should get the Math Game book they sell? Never tried the games...

I think my problem is my friend thinks RS is wonderful and would never do anything else, and she told me even the classical christian school in town uses RS. Singapore is more interesting for me to teach than RS. And my dd likes it, too. But maybe adding some RS games will make it more fun? Anyone tried their game book, just for fun?

 

I do Abeka just so I will have an idea what they teach in an US curriculum - after Singapore, it is really easy for dd to do Abeka, but has some little topics here and there that SM does not touch.

[blessedmom3]

I prefer Singapore and so does my son. I guess I hate all scripted programs.

However , I do use ( and love ) Rightstart activities & worksheets for AL Abacus as a supplement to Singapore. It's the same as RS , just not grade level and not scripted. Much simpler, easier and cheaper .

[imhim]

Never heard of these: "Rightstart activities & worksheets for AL Abacus as a supplement to Singapore. It's the same as RS , just not grade level and not scripted. Much simpler, easier and cheaper " I need to go check them out of the RS website. Sounds good. Thank you.

[EKS]

I felt that RightStart B did a better job introducing concepts than Singapore 1A/B did. If you are going into 2A now though I wouldn't bother switching. Singapore is excellent from 2A on up.

 

Also, I wouldn't worry about her testing well using Singapore exclusively (assuming that she is working at or above grade level). When my son finished 2B last year, he scored at the 98th percentile on the 2nd grade ITBS. He didn't know any more than what he had learned in Singapore.

[PeterPan]

No, "most" people do not think RS is "better" than Singapore, lol. It's good, more or less equivalent, but not better. RS has some strengths, but the strengths (scripted lessons, manipulative use, careful progression from concrete to abstract) sounds like stuff you don't need or are already bringing to the table yourself. As Capt. Uhura said, it's time to put on your blinders girlfriend! There are lots of good options, and you need to just pick one and do it! It's all going to work out just fine. It's ok for Singapore to be the best thing for *you* and RS to be the *best* thing for your girlfriend. There really and truly are about 10+ super duper good math programs we have right now as options. They're ALL good and ALL could have been chosen by that cs.

 

So bolster your self-confidence here a bit and get back to teaching! :)

 

BTW, we used RS A-D, dabbled in Singapore, CLE, Horizons, etc. and then went over to BJU. I think I probably could have been happy with any of them, if they had been my choice. It's partly you and what you bring to the table the way you use it. It's partly how the curriculum interacts with your student and how your student responds to it. You're just really unwise to hope around, thinking excellence or perfection in choices happens in a vacuum. You're not teaching a theoretical child; you're teaching YOUR child. You're not a theoretical, model teacher; you're YOU. So just because a curriculum is a great fit for the theoretical student the cs anticipates doesn't mean that same curriculum will be best for your particular student. And just because the teacher at the cs needs that curriculum to do well teaching doesn't mean YOU need that curriculum. And should you buy anything? Eh, I wouldn't. I mean if you really want to you can, but why? Does he want those games? Does he need them? Does he retain his facts better with auditory practice? If it's just to appease your sense of RS guilt, I wouldn't bother. If you actually perceive a NEED or hole in the methodology you have right now, then sure try to fill it. Your manipulatives all came with instructions, so you can probably do more with them than you realize.

[imhim]

Wow! Thank you all for sharing your wisdom with me. Yes Elizabeth, it is mostly to appease my mind that I amn doing "some" Rs, that

I would look into the games. My dd would love games, but she does well with what she is learning. I do not like to change curriculum, so I will keep doing what I am doing. Thank you again

[mom2denj]

Just wanted to say thank you to the op for starting this thread. I have been wondering this myself for awhile. Great responses!

[crazyforlatin]

I use Singapore, Math Mammoth and Miquon and all have been great as a combo, and if you ask me to drop one or choose just one, I couldn't, not because each one cannot stand alone, but because I like to present DD with something different each time to see if she really understands the concepts. I've also added in the Right Start Math Games and DD now sees how important math is if she wants to play with us. It has helped her learn her math fact families, add up double digit numbers mentally for score keeping, and made math fun for her. When I purchased Singapore a few months ago, I didn't realize RS was so recommended (didn't know about this forum) and I thought that Singapore would get us to the same place without the expense. Of course, I've added the rest of the popular math programs and have spent about the same amount probably.

[Crimson Wife]

I felt that RightStart B did a better job introducing concepts than Singapore 1A/B did. If you are going into 2A now though I wouldn't bother switching. Singapore is excellent from 2A on up.

 

:iagree:

I personally feel that RS A & B are more developmentally appropriate than Singapore EB and 1 A/B because I feel that young kids should be doing primarily "hands-on" math rather than workbooks. But I do like the higher levels of Singapore better than the higher levels of RS because they are easier to up the challenge level for a bright child.

 

RS is easier to teach for many parents because it's scripted. OTOH some folks who are strong at math themselves don't like the scripted nature of RS.

[siloam]

I am not sure if I am doing a disservice to my children (oldest in second grade) by using Singapore, since it seems most people think RightStart is much better. We always used Singapore, and really enjoyed this past year with 1A and 1B, and it is easy for me to teach, as my background has lots of math. I did try RightStart B and it was going too slowly for us. But maybe I should have stuck with it.

I also used Intensive practive and Challenging Word problems.

I have all Singapore I need for second grade, and already sold RightStart B, but I wonder if I should try it again. Is it really much better?

 

I used a combination of Singapore and Abeka Worktext - to be sure she tests well.

 

What would you do?

 

The quick answer, no.

 

Right Start doesn't make the logical leaps that Singapore does, and combine that with the hands on and it works better for non math students, hands down. A mathy kid would do well with it to.

 

Singapore has more critical thinking and problem solving, so over all it is more rigorous, if your kids can handle that. My kids aren't really mathy, so they need to do RS before they can manage Singapore. Even then I have CWP and IP problems I have to walk them through because they just don't make the connections.

 

Heather

 

[PeterPan]

Right Start doesn't make the logical leaps that Singapore does, and combine that with the hands on and it works better for non math students, hands down. A mathy kid would do well with it to.

 

RS requires parental adjustment for the mathy dc and gets frustrating after a while. We were constantly finding that dd had intuited the next steps but needed the practice, was bored in the lessons but needed the work, etc. It was just bizarre. If Singapore makes more leaps, as you say, then it would have been a better fit. You CAN use RS with a mathy dc, and people around here do, but you're constantly tweaking it (or fighting it, depending on your mood).

[Honey Bee]

Right Start doesn't make the logical leaps that Singapore does...

 

 

I keep hearing this about Singapore, what are we talking about here? Can you give some examples?

[Capt_Uhura]

RS requires parental adjustment for the mathy dc and gets frustrating after a while. We were constantly finding that dd had intuited the next steps but needed the practice, was bored in the lessons but needed the work, etc. It was just bizarre. If Singapore makes more leaps, as you say, then it would have been a better fit. You CAN use RS with a mathy dc, and people around here do, but you're constantly tweaking it (or fighting it, depending on your mood).

 

 

Interesting....I had the exact same problem with my DS and RS. We managed to get through level E.

 

i'm not sure about SM making more leaps than RS. I found RS to make a number of leaps whereas it seemed SM was more incremental. HHmmm

 

We're moving into SM5A/5B after having finished RS E.

 

Capt_Uhura

[nmoira]

RS requires parental adjustment for the mathy dc and gets frustrating after a while.

 

Interesting....I had the exact same problem with my DS and RS. We managed to get through level E.

 

i'm not sure about SM making more leaps than RS. I found RS to make a number of leaps whereas it seemed SM was more incremental. HHmmm

 

We're moving into SM5A/5B after having finished RS E.

DD the Elder made it not quite halfway through Level C. Having new information doled out a bit at a time as in Right Start initially just drove her batty and finally pushed her into a rage. I should have switched her to a new program earlier. :blush: Singapore is formatted in such a way that a child who needs it can push on through the text to get the big picture. I don't think Singapore makes more leaps, but I do think some homeschoolers get lulled into a state of complacency with the early books; they look so simple, yet it's important to get the facts down and practice doing mental math the "Singapore way."

[siloam]

I keep hearing this about Singapore, what are we talking about here? Can you give some examples?

RS has more work on place value at an earlier level, RS directly teaches how to do the puzzle boxes where Singapore has you figure them out, RS teaches you how to do mental math in teaching visualizing and how to hold numbers in your mind with two digit numbers where Singapore just expects you to do it.

 

Though I will also agree that once a topic has been introduced RS will take it farther faster. Singapore makes the leaps in introducing the topic, RS after the topic is introduced it will move farther faster. For example level B goes from 4 digit addition to 9 digit addition. Singapore only adds about one place value a year, so it would be 3rd or 4th level before you did 4 digit addition, and then only after reviewing 3 digit addition right before.

 

Heather

[nmoira]

RS teaches you how to do mental math in teaching visualizing and how to hold numbers in your mind with two digit numbers where Singapore just expects you to do it.

:confused: Singapore has exercises in the HIGs, the text, and the workbooks walking the child through the steps.

 

Though I will also agree that once a topic has been introduced RS will take it farther faster. Singapore makes the leaps in introducing the topic, RS after the topic is introduced it will move farther faster. For example level B goes from 4 digit addition to 9 digit addition.

I found this to be true of Level B vs Singapore 1A/1B, but not by the end of Level C. IMHO, the difference between 4 and 9 digit subtraction is trivial, and with MEP I have come to appreciate just how far you can push concepts while still working with small numbers (MEP Y1 doesn't move beyond 20, and Y2 doesn't move beyond 100).

 

Other than the alAbacus (eta: and sequencing... Singapore covers concepts in discrete units), the biggest difference between RS and Singapore is words. Right Start is jam packed with them, while Singapore uses a more streamlined visual approach.

Edited July 10, 2010 by nmoira
clarity

[Honey Bee]

RS has more work on place value at an earlier level, RS directly teaches how to do the puzzle boxes where Singapore has you figure them out, RS teaches you how to do mental math in teaching visualizing and how to hold numbers in your mind with two digit numbers where Singapore just expects you to do it.

 

Though I will also agree that once a topic has been introduced RS will take it farther faster. Singapore makes the leaps in introducing the topic, RS after the topic is introduced it will move farther faster. For example level B goes from 4 digit addition to 9 digit addition. Singapore only adds about one place value a year, so it would be 3rd or 4th level before you did 4 digit addition, and then only after reviewing 3 digit addition right before.

 

Heather

 

Thanks Heather, that makes sense now. I've used RS B this year with my son and we are now going through Singapore 1a for "just the summer." He seems to enjoys it and he doesn't seem to be frustrated. He is always frustrated with RS. I think I may be seeing why by reading thread.

 

Problem is *mom* likes RS and it makes me feel secure. I like the way RS introduces 4 digit addition and I always wonder if their methods are better, more pure than Singapore? :confused: oh the guilt. So many people love Singapore, it must be great, why else would Sonlight, HOD, LCC, and others use it?

 

A personal note, I've had to wrestle my guilty consious about not using Phonics Road or SWR next year. I've struggled with them for 2 years now. I will use AAS and FLL and WWE instead. I'm also using PP to teach my kids to read and I LOVE it! I'm slowly building my confidence about my decisions. I really don't like to switch curriculum, I feel like I haven't finished or I have failed. I think I'm dealing with that with math too. And I know, not earth shattering decisions, same methods, but once again, I feel unfinished or failure and guilt.

 

Like Heather once said..."keep swimming." :001_smile:

[siloam]

:confused: Singapore has exercises in the HIGs, the text, and the workbooks walking the child through the steps.

 

I found this to be true of Level B vs Singapore 1A/1B, but not by the end of Level C. IMHO, the difference between 4 and 9 digit subtraction is trivial, and with MEP have come to appreciate just how far you can push concepts while still working with small numbers (MEP Y1 doesn't move beyond 20, and Y2 doesn't move beyond 100).

 

Other than the alAbacus, the biggest difference between RS and Singapore is words. Right Start is jam packed with them, while Singapore uses a more streamlined visual approach.

 

Yes but RS teaches a child how to see quantities in their mind, Singapore assumes a child can already. RS teaches how to think of 47+31 as 47+30 (hold the 1 in your head)=77+1=78. My 2nd dd would have never learned to add it her mind with just Singapore, she didn't have the ability to see numbers or quantities in her head and didn't know how to go about adding them.

 

My oldest two did fine with both the 9 digit addition and the mental addition, my younger two have had to camp out on both concepts (well I am assuming the double digit addition with ds, he isn't there yet, but it is a safe bet). Those little leaps that some kids would get intuitively they just don't see and need the direct instruction in RS. Once they have a concept down most of the time they don't have a problem working more quickly up to multi-digit work. They just did with addition, and I think half of that was mental, being overwhelmed by how much work there looked to be, or maybe it was how new it was? They haven't had a problem since. My younger dd is now mid C.

 

My oldest did Singapore and Miquon, and HATED Miquon. She didn't do well with discovery approach, she wanted to be told exactly what she was to do and why. She struggled every step of the way through Singapore. I would have to sit with her for up to a month walking her through problems and she still wouldn't really get the why but would know what steps to do. She hated math. In 3rd grade I found Right Start and she started with level B, and it was like a thirsty cat had finally found water. She got the why and math became 10 times easier for her. She could do Singapore now after covering the topics in RS and didn't need a month of me sitting with her walking her through every problem. She still doesn't love math, but now she knows she is good at it and she doesn't hate it.

 

Though part of the reason for this change is that she is an auditory and hands on learner. My 2nd dd was following the same path (hated Miquon, needed me to sit with her through Singapore), and is a hands on and then visual learner. The visual in Singapore wasn't enough to make up the difference for her.

 

In the end I think there are probably three things to consider. If your kids is mathy or not, what their learning style is and where the programs make logical leaps. My kids are all not mathy, need concrete instruction and are hands on learners (visual is at best secondary to hands on), so it is not a big surprise that they do better with RS.

 

Funny but I would actually say Singapore has more words, because of the word problems, where with RS they don't look at the manual just do the exercises and the worksheets. With Singapore they do the Primary texts, IP and CWP so here they see a lot more words in Singapore and very few in RS. That could be a difference in implementation, especially if you don't use all the Singapore texts.

 

Heather

 

 

[nmoira]

Yes but RS teaches a child how to see quantities in their mind, Singapore assumes a child can already. RS teaches how to think of 47+31 as 47+30 (hold the 1 in your head)=77+1=78.

This probably isn't the best example, as Singapore would use:

 

 

 

47+31 = 48+30 = 78 :tongue_smilie:

 

 

But even with a different example, after having gone through 1B-4A in Primary Math (US Edition), I'm not getting the distinction on this one, but that's OK. [Disclaimer, we never used this particular technique anyway... when making tens/hundreds wasn't an option, DD the Elder preferred "add the tens (of all addends), then add the ones (of all addends)." Likewise she can calculate differences lightning fast by "chopping off" the "top and bottom" and adding them back in... for example for 943-188... she'd quickly do 900-200=700 then 700+12+43=753. This particular technique also proved well suited to working with negative numbers.]

 

I do absolutely agree that RS is a better fit for some kids than Singapore and vice versa. However, the OP's children seem to be doing fine with Singapore, and IMHO, there's no reason to switch from Singapore to RS other than fit. I don't believe that one program is conceptually superior to the other, with the exception of word problems and CWP, which can be added to RS in any case.

 

Funny but I would actually say Singapore has more words, because of the word problems, where with RS they don't look at the manual just do the exercises and the worksheets. With Singapore they do the Primary texts, IP and CWP so here they see a lot more words in Singapore and very few in RS. That could be a difference in implementation, especially if you don't use all the Singapore texts.

We're talking about different things here. I'm referring to instruction, and at least in Levels B and C, Right Start is very wordy, while with Singapore visual students can just "see it," even without using the HIG. It's a question of fit and preference: some students will respond better to one approach, many will do well with either.

 

There are many more word problems in Singapore, and the student gets lots of practice pulling the essential bits of of the problems and translating words into bar problems and equations.

Edited July 10, 2010 by nmoira

[siloam]

This probably isn't the best example, as Singapore would use:

 

 

 

47+31 = 48+30 = 78 :tongue_smilie:

 

 

But even with a different example, after having gone through 1B-4A in Primary Math (US Edition), I'm not getting the distinction on this one, but that's OK. [Disclaimer, we never used this particular technique anyway... when making tens/hundreds wasn't an option, DD the Elder preferred "add the tens (of all addends), then add the ones (of all addends)." Likewise she can calculate differences lightning fast by "chopping off" the "top and bottom" and adding them back in... for example for 943-188... she'd quickly do 900-200=700 then 700+12+43=753. This particular technique also proved well suited to working with negative numbers.]

 

I do absolutely agree that RS is a better fit for some kids than Singapore and vice versa. However, for the OP's children seem to be doing fine with Singapore, and IMHO, there's no reason to switch from Singapore to RS other than fit. I don't believe that one program is conceptually superior to the other, with the exception of word problems and CWP, which can be added to RS in any case.

 

We're talking about different things here. I'm referring to instruction, and at least in Levels B and C, Right Start is very wordy, while with Singapore visual students can just "see it," even without using the HIG. It's a question of fit and preference: some students will respond better to one approach, many will do well with either.

 

There are many more word problems in Singapore, and the student gets lots of practice pulling the essential bits of of the problems and translating words into bar problems and equations.

 

With the mental math Singapore more teaches how to do double digit addition in a base 10 method, and then just expects a child to be able to do it mentally as well. Works for a lot of kiddo's probably most kids.

 

If you don't have a child who can see quantities in their mind, who can't do it with out looking at the problem or using pencil and paper to add it, even after knowing how to add numbers in a base 10 way, RS teaches them how to more to mental math. Both teaching how to see quantities and how to methodically add the tens first while keeping one of the ones with the number and holding the second one mentally, and then after adding the tens then adding the ones.

 

If you don't have a child who stuggles with these little differences, then I don't think they would seem like a big deal. It is noticeable if you have kids who can't make those leaps and they struggle with one program and not the other.

 

None of my kids could see things with Singapore. I had to walk them through how to break the quantities down into amounts that added up to 10. I would start out with a problem like 8+8, write it on the white board and then ask them, "What do you need to add to 8 to get 10?" They would answer 2, and I would draw the upside down v that Singapore uses and show 8 dividing into 2 and (leaving the second part blank) I would ask, "If I take 2 away from the 8 how much do I have left?" They would answer 6 and I would write the 6 down. The white board now looks like this (ignore .... as the are just in there to keep the spacing):

 

8 + 8 =

...../ \

8+2+6=

 

Now I ask, "What does 8+2 equal?" The answer 10 and I write the v and 10 and carry down the 6:

 

8 + 8 =

...../ \

8+2+6=

\../

10 + 6=

 

Then I finish up by asking what is 10+6 and writing their answer, which they copy into their book.

 

After a few days of walking them through each problem like that, if they didn't naturally start anticipating my questions and answering before I asked, I would starting asking, "What do I do next?" Eventually they would walk me through how to do the whole problem, and then eventually they could do their assignments on their own, but with my kids it took a long time. They didn't see anything. They actually moved more quickly through RS than they did Singapore.

 

I would agree that RS and Singapore Primary (only) are close to the same level. CWP are a good add on to either, but it is the IP books that put Singapore at a higher level. They could be added on to RS too, or you could do all of both like we do.

 

If you want to continue on with upper level Singapore math they recommend you do the IP books to help the child be used to having to struggle with math because a large part of the focus in the upper level Singapore texts is applying the concepts to new situations that haven't been directly taught. They do directly teach the concept behind it, and give a few practice problems, but then they totally shake it up by having the child apply it to something different to make sure they understand the base concept.

 

It is the critical thinking/problem solving focus in Singapore, especially in the IP books that make it a more rigorous program. Though I think the problem solving with bars taught in level 3 and up also make Singapore more rigorous. If someone using the CWP books uses the bar method then they would also get that benefit. As a base program without CWP though RS isn't quite as rigorous as Singapore. Doesn't mean it isn't excellent.

 

Heather

 

[imhim]

Thank you for your conversation, ladies. It helps me a lot.

I find Singapore very easy to teach. Rs was so boring and slow. For me and for dd. I do not know if my dd is as mathy as I was (I hold a masters in both electrical engineering and computer science, but don't work anymore) - dd gets the topics most of the time - not all the time - and we use the manipulatives as described in the IG, she likes that, she "sees" well this way. She likes the pictures, too, because she is very artistic - something that I am not - but it helps her. She does not like to do the exercises, but I do not give her a choice.

I will stay with what we are doing - my dd learned already the 3-digits addition with carrying from the Abeka workbook, although it has not been touched on Singapore yet.

 

My friend that really likes RS and can't stop talking about it has a completely different background than me, she was an art teacher and likes the scripted lessons in math that drove me insane... so there might be part of the ...explanation. I do like scripted lessons in grammar and LA, as English is my second language, I did not grow up American, but not math or any other kind of science.

 

I will still look into the activity and worsheets for Rs. I wish I could find the math card game book used somewhere...

 

Thank you all for helping!!

In Him

[nmoira]

If you don't have a child who stuggles with these little differences, then I don't think they would seem like a big deal. It is noticeable if you have kids who can't make those leaps and they struggle with one program and not the other.

I'm sure that's my problem... it's like when I tried to teach my kids to swim... and told them "now start swimming." :lol: I don't remember not knowing how, so at the time I couldn't break it down in my head to a series or sequence of skills. Thanks so much for the explanation. :001_smile:

 

It is the critical thinking/problem solving focus in Singapore, especially in the IP books that make it a more rigorous program. Though I think the problem solving with bars taught in level 3 and up also make Singapore more rigorous. If someone using the CWP books uses the bar method then they would also get that benefit. As a base program without CWP though RS isn't quite as rigorous as Singapore. Doesn't mean it isn't excellent.

Based on what I saw of RS, I agree. I'll also add that I see no reason for a child doing well with RS to switch to Singapore... though I always recommend CWP, no matter which program people are using.

[siloam]

Thanks Heather, that makes sense now. I've used RS B this year with my son and we are now going through Singapore 1a for "just the summer." He seems to enjoys it and he doesn't seem to be frustrated. He is always frustrated with RS. I think I may be seeing why by reading thread.

 

Problem is *mom* likes RS and it makes me feel secure. I like the way RS introduces 4 digit addition and I always wonder if their methods are better, more pure than Singapore? :confused: oh the guilt. So many people love Singapore, it must be great, why else would Sonlight, HOD, LCC, and others use it?

 

A personal note, I've had to wrestle my guilty consious about not using Phonics Road or SWR next year. I've struggled with them for 2 years now. I will use AAS and FLL and WWE instead. I'm also using PP to teach my kids to read and I LOVE it! I'm slowly building my confidence about my decisions. I really don't like to switch curriculum, I feel like I haven't finished or I have failed. I think I'm dealing with that with math too. And I know, not earth shattering decisions, same methods, but once again, I feel unfinished or failure and guilt.

 

Like Heather once said..."keep swimming." :001_smile:

 

If Singapore clicks then run with it, he might just be stronger in math and not need some of the direct instruction in Singapore, he might also be a visual learner and Singapore just makes sense to him. Overall I think Singapore is actually the more rigorous program. I wouldn't say stronger because I think it is a bonus to have that in Singapore, not a need, if that makes sense.

 

BTW I am horrible about following scripted lessons. I basically read it and make it my own, I don't follow the scripts (FLL, RS, WWE). Given I have used it before, the last time I did FLL 1/2 I just looked at the topics and didn't even read the script...come to think of it I do that with RS too, LOL! :D

 

AAS is just as strong a program as SWR and Phonics Road. For LD students it would be a stronger program. Talking spelling here, phonics wise there are stronger programs than all three. The thing that can be hard with AAS is that the words can be easy for some students. That is probably partly the way they are grouped and partly because they are on the easy side. Personally my oldest was spelling on a 7th grade level when we started AAS and all the words have been easy. It wasn't till one of the last lessons on the 3rd level that she mis-spelled anything. That was only because she wanted to spell pennies Pennys from seeing the name in print. She is still learning a lot about syllable rules, I just don't focus on the words. I have her basically teach me with the examples, because she has such good visual memory she would never get it wrong. By having her explain how to follow syllable rules to me she is internalizing them so when she meets long science words she doesn't know she can puzzle them out. SWR was excellent too, but honestly AAS just makes more sense to me and therefor is of more benefit. I.E. it gets done more often with both of us having a better attitude.

 

Let guilt go. It won't help you reach your goals, it will just add stress and make it harder. Same with doing program that just don't work for you. While I adore TOG I am the first to admit it is way too much for most people. That which makes sense and gets done is always better than struggling to meet ideals which might not even get you where you think you want to go.

 

Yes, keep on swimming....

 

Heather

[Julie]

Not to high jack this thread, but I have been considering swithichg from SM to RS becasue I would like more hands on. In looking at the web site you answer 5 questions and that is the level?? That does not seem like enough. My DD is 1/2 through CLE 204 and 1/2 through SM 1B. Any thoughts on where to begin with RS?

[Spy Car]

RS has more work on place value at an earlier level...

 

While we are using Singapore (and love it) this is one area where I think RS has a more logical start than Singapore. So I simply "steal" the ideas from RS, and have done a lot of place value work up-front. Because if you don't understand the base-10 number system, how you really "understand" math.

 

While Singapore is a better fit as a spine for my son (and me) I greatly appreciate or RS materials, games, cards, abacus, and activities book for what they bring to the table. Which is a lot.

 

It has been a helpful thread it terms of identifying what parents and student might favor one or another of these two fine programs. We are fortunate to have such good options.

 

Bill

Edited July 10, 2010 by Spy Car

[siloam]

Not to high jack this thread, but I have been considering swithichg from SM to RS becasue I would like more hands on. In looking at the web site you answer 5 questions and that is the level?? That does not seem like enough. My DD is 1/2 through CLE 204 and 1/2 through SM 1B. Any thoughts on where to begin with RS?

 

Yes it is possible. RS is mastery based with some review. The first 3 questions look for developmental issues, then they begin to ask questions to target which level would work best. It looks like place value is the one you probably were stopped at. Place value is emphasized through the whole program, but level B is where it is explained in depth. You really don't want to move ahead without having a solid foundation in place value. Singapore actually waits and covers it in depth in level 3 and some programs barely touch on it.

 

Remember you can move through stuff more quickly. My oldest started RS in 3rd grade and did levels B-D at double pace (except any drawing lessons, those she did one at a time). This year with level E there was enough new information and a quick enough pace that she has gone through it at normal speed.

 

Also it might help to understand that level B covers up to 9 digit addition, then introduces simple subtraction and multiplication. Level C covers subtraction and multiplication. Level D covers fractions and measurements and at the end introduces simple division. Level E covers division, decimals, percents and probability so far. Money and time is also covered, but generally under the bigger topics. The program will introduces a new skill, say subtraction, then have the child do subtraction with money and subtraction with time, later it adds measurements to that list, after measurements is introduced.

 

Let me know if you have questions.

 

Heather

 

 

 

 

[Julie]

Thanks Heather!!

 

I am thinking I need B or C. I did the 5 question test is there a longer one? Based on were we are with SM and CLE do you have any thoughts, it seems like I recall you having experience with both.

[PeterPan]

Not to high jack this thread, but I have been considering swithichg from SM to RS becasue I would like more hands on. In looking at the web site you answer 5 questions and that is the level?? That does not seem like enough. My DD is 1/2 through CLE 204 and 1/2 through SM 1B. Any thoughts on where to begin with RS?

 

Julie, the RS levels each focus on a particular skill, though they introduce or extend others. In that sense their online placement test is accurate. I would start there and then look at the toc for the level you're considering to see if it's a good match. To enter levels C and above you do Transitions, so many people will buy the Transitions starter set, see how far they go in it, and then launch into the appropriate main level of RS. Or for a student who is right on the line, you can do RS B, albeit quickly, and then go into C.

[siloam]

Thank you for your conversation, ladies. It helps me a lot.

I find Singapore very easy to teach. Rs was so boring and slow. For me and for dd. I do not know if my dd is as mathy as I was (I hold a masters in both electrical engineering and computer science, but don't work anymore) - dd gets the topics most of the time - not all the time - and we use the manipulatives as described in the IG, she likes that, she "sees" well this way. She likes the pictures, too, because she is very artistic - something that I am not - but it helps her. She does not like to do the exercises, but I do not give her a choice.

I will stay with what we are doing - my dd learned already the 3-digits addition with carrying from the Abeka workbook, although it has not been touched on Singapore yet.

 

My friend that really likes RS and can't stop talking about it has a completely different background than me, she was an art teacher and likes the scripted lessons in math that drove me insane... so there might be part of the ...explanation. I do like scripted lessons in grammar and LA, as English is my second language, I did not grow up American, but not math or any other kind of science.

 

I will still look into the activity and worsheets for Rs. I wish I could find the math card game book used somewhere...

 

Thank you all for helping!!

In Him

 

I am jealous, I wish I had mathy kids as it is my favorite topic. Truth is I probably wasn't any more mathy at their age. I just loved numbers and later in life that grew into a love of math. Sigh...

 

Don't feel guilty for doing what works best for your child, that is why we hs. If RS isn't working there, ditch it and don't look back.

 

Keep and eye on the used boards here, the games book does pop up now and then.

 

Heather

 

[PeterPan]

Thanks Heather, that makes sense now. I've used RS B this year with my son and we are now going through Singapore 1a for "just the summer." He seems to enjoys it and he doesn't seem to be frustrated. He is always frustrated with RS. I think I may be seeing why by reading thread.

 

Problem is *mom* likes RS and it makes me feel secure. I like the way RS introduces 4 digit addition and I always wonder if their methods are better, more pure than Singapore? :confused: oh the guilt. So many people love Singapore, it must be great, why else would Sonlight, HOD, LCC, and others use it?

 

A personal note, I've had to wrestle my guilty consious about not using Phonics Road or SWR next year. I've struggled with them for 2 years now. I will use AAS and FLL and WWE instead. I'm also using PP to teach my kids to read and I LOVE it! I'm slowly building my confidence about my decisions. I really don't like to switch curriculum, I feel like I haven't finished or I have failed. I think I'm dealing with that with math too. And I know, not earth shattering decisions, same methods, but once again, I feel unfinished or failure and guilt.

 

Like Heather once said..."keep swimming." :001_smile:

 

Heather, I like the way RS teaches 4 digit subtraction in level C, but beyond that I would just free yourself of the guilt! You could get that level and use it to teach him that far, or you could get Activities for the ALAbacus to do that. Or you could just toss him to Singapore entirely and be done with it. But I certainly wouldn't sit there making him to RS at this point when he's more happy with Singapore. Besides, with so many other littles, maybe your next will just LOVE RightStart! :)

 

On the SWR and PR, mercy girl, free yourself! I used SWR for years, dabbled in PR, and I KNOW what you mean. I finally looked over AAS at the convention, and it's adorable! It definitely would have been a great option when my dd was younger, had it been around at the right level, and personally I think it's insane not to use it or to sit there telling yourself it's not doing the best by your kids. It's TERRIFIC!!! :)

[Honey Bee]

If Singapore clicks then run with it, he might just be stronger in math and not need some of the direct instruction in Singapore, he might also be a visual learner and Singapore just makes sense to him. Overall I think Singapore is actually the more rigorous program. I wouldn't say stronger because I think it is a bonus to have that in Singapore, not a need, if that makes sense. It wasn't until this thread, that I realized that RS can sometime drag for kids, maybe this was happening with my oldest. He is already doing much better with Singapore worksheets, especially because he is reading well and can do them as independent work after we've done discussed. The independent part seems to be key for him. *I* like singapore, but sometimes I have to close the textbook, because I'm overwhelmed by all the cartoons on the pages, I hope that calms down in the later levels. I know they are trying to make a point, but it's hard for *me* to teach from or start our discussion on.

 

BTW I am horrible about following scripted lessons. I basically read it and make it my own, I don't follow the scripts (FLL, RS, WWE). Given I have used it before, the last time I did FLL 1/2 I just looked at the topics and didn't even read the script...come to think of it I do that with RS too, LOL! :D With you here!

 

AAS is just as strong a program as SWR and Phonics Road. For LD students it would be a stronger program. Talking spelling here, phonics wise there are stronger programs than all three. The thing that can be hard with AAS is that the words can be easy for some students. That is probably partly the way they are grouped and partly because they are on the easy side. Personally my oldest was spelling on a 7th grade level when we started AAS and all the words have been easy. It wasn't till one of the last lessons on the 3rd level that she mis-spelled anything. That was only because she wanted to spell pennies Pennys from seeing the name in print. She is still learning a lot about syllable rules, I just don't focus on the words. I have her basically teach me with the examples, because she has such good visual memory she would never get it wrong. By having her explain how to follow syllable rules to me she is internalizing them so when she meets long science words she doesn't know she can puzzle them out. SWR was excellent too, but honestly AAS just makes more sense to me and therefor is of more benefit. I.E. it gets done more often with both of us having a better attitude. I'm glad to hear you say that AAS just as strong as SWR and PR. I know they are adding a 7th level, maybe it will have higher level words. And I think AAS uses the Ayers list like SWR, so I wonder why AAS seems easier?

 

Let guilt go. It won't help you reach your goals, it will just add stress and make it harder. Same with doing program that just don't work for you. While I adore TOG I am the first to admit it is way too much for most people. That which makes sense and gets done is always better than struggling to meet ideals which might not even get you where you think you want to go. If I could just get started, it would be better. We're not starting till Sept. because of my husbands busy schedule. I think this year we will make better headway from our better and more suitable choices. Thanks for your encouragement!

 

Yes, keep on swimming.... :iagree:

 

Heather

.

[Honey Bee]

Heather, I like the way RS teaches 4 digit subtraction in level C, but beyond that I would just free yourself of the guilt! You could get that level and use it to teach him that far, or you could get Activities for the ALAbacus to do that. Or you could just toss him to Singapore entirely and be done with it. But I certainly wouldn't sit there making him to RS at this point when he's more happy with Singapore. Besides, with so many other littles, maybe your next will just LOVE RightStart! :) Thanks for the kind words and I'm working on the guilt thing. And you are right, maybe I will have one who loves RS. Doing both in my house would probably be a good thing and keep things fresh for me!

 

On the SWR and PR, mercy girl, free yourself! I used SWR for years, dabbled in PR, and I KNOW what you mean. I finally looked over AAS at the convention, and it's adorable! It definitely would have been a great option when my dd was younger, had it been around at the right level, and personally I think it's insane not to use it or to sit there telling yourself it's not doing the best by your kids. It's TERRIFIC!!! :)

I'm trying. You are so right. And an excellent curriculum that gets DONE is better than another excellent curriculum that doesn't. I know this. Its like a tragedy, time will my SWR and PR hole in my heart. :) Thanks for :bigear:.

[Lovedtodeath]

I am not sure if I am doing a disservice to my children (oldest in second grade) by using Singapore, since it seems most people think RightStart is much better. We always used Singapore, and really enjoyed this past year with 1A and 1B, and it is easy for me to teach, as my background has lots of math. I did try RightStart B and it was going too slowly for us. But maybe I should have stuck with it.

I also used Intensive practive and Challenging Word problems.

I have all Singapore I need for second grade, and already sold RightStart B, but I wonder if I should try it again. Is it really much better?

 

I used a combination of Singapore and Abeka Worktext - to be sure she tests well.

 

What would you do?

I would stick with Singapore but make sure we are using an abacus. A lot.

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm trying. You are so right. And an excellent curriculum that gets DONE is better than another excellent curriculum that doesn't. I know this. Its like a tragedy, time will my SWR and PR hole in my heart. :) Thanks for :bigear:.

Using AAS is no tragedy!

 

Oops. I posted before reading the other posts. Oh well, I agree then.

[siloam]

Thanks Heather!!

 

I am thinking I need B or C. I did the 5 question test is there a longer one? Based on were we are with SM and CLE do you have any thoughts, it seems like I recall you having experience with both.

 

If you answer yes instead of no, then it will keep going.

 

If you start with C you will still need to do transitions in order to know how to use the abacus. Given place value is so important and covered extensively in B, I would go with B.

 

I will warn you that at first it is going to feel too easy. Just focus on the "seeing" quantities (not writing them) and double up on lessons as needed, then slow it down later when it really gets into place value and multi-digit addition, then you would probably double pace it again at the end.

 

Heather

 

[Lovedtodeath]

AAS seems easier because like words are grouped together and it starts out more slowly in the first couple of levels.

[siloam]

AAS seems easier because like words are grouped together and it starts out more slowly in the first couple of levels.

 

I ponder this a lot, and I think that is more of a factor than people realize. They also pull out suffix and prefix words and first cover a group together, then cover them in the writing station, which is more isolated, but you are prepared for the fact that most of them will have base words with a suffix or prefix.

 

With SWR you have so much of a mix of words, sometimes really easy, and a few hard. I think it is just the few hard that make it seem to have more value. I also skipped up quite a few lessons and didn't start at the beginning, or I probably would have felt the same with SWR.

 

Heather

[Julie]

Heather thanks for the advice I am going to heed it. I spoke with one of their reps today and I think even though it may seem easy at first it will help me get past where I seem to be stuck with her.

 

Everyone who uses this says it is their kids favorite subjecty and they ask to do math, sure hope it is true in my case. :0

[Lovedtodeath]

I ponder this a lot, and I think that is more of a factor than people realize. They also pull out suffix and prefix words and first cover a group together, then cover them in the writing station, which is more isolated, but you are prepared for the fact that most of them will have base words with a suffix or prefix.

 

With SWR you have so much of a mix of words, sometimes really easy, and a few hard. I think it is just the few hard that make it seem to have more value. I also skipped up quite a few lessons and didn't start at the beginning, or I probably would have felt the same with SWR.

 

Heather

Yes, we have had a lot of words that we could glide right over with nothing learned (already known) in PR. I have also had to take a break from PR and use the AAS approach with some phonograms and rules that we have had trouble with.

[Beth in SW WA]

Hey Julie,

I just bought B for Abi & Aly. It looks awesome. I'm still waiting for the worksheets and other pieces of the program which I bought at the conference.

 

I did not buy the balance. I hope that's ok.

 

I'll be home from vacation tomorrow and can let you borrow the B manual, games kit and abacus (I ordered another one for Aly.)

 

Abi will start midway through and Aly is starting with Lesson 1.

 

We will also do Singapore and daily math facts on the iPad.

 

This is a great thread.

[Julie]

Hi Beth, thanks for offering your wears! When I went to the booth there was no one there and then I ran into the Ortiz clan and never made it back.

 

I have the games and an abacus maybe I don't need the $150 full meal deal..........if I had not been on the golf course all day I would have ordered it. What do you think do I just need the work sheets and a few extra manipulatives? Tell me more about what your doing.

 

Hope you have having good weather and lots of fun.