Astrid: sorry to hear about the AKC ruling

[vettechmomof2]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37993800/

 

 

I just heard they introduced your breed into the AKC. Very sorry to hear that.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Color me ignorant.

 

Why sorry?

[fivetails]

*also wondering*

 

I don't know much about purebred dogs, but isn't it a good thing when a breed is recognized officially? I read the article, but I can't find anything in it that helps shed light here...

[Carrie12345]

I'm no expert, but I do know that many people take issue with some AKC standards, which make their way into the majority of breedings. For instance, the controversial sloped hips of German Shepherds. Or ear/tail docking.

 

-Carrie, who loves the fact that her GSD is a mutt, giving him a great, straight back!

[WistfulRidge]

In general the AKC is a good thing. It is really only one of two decent purebred kennel clubs of any quality in North America (the other being the CKC - Canadian Kennel Club, and not the other CKC). That being said in a lot of very popular breeds showing becomes such an obsession and winning becomes such a prize that if a judge "slips" and lets something less than standard worthy win suddenly many of the breeders are trying to breed to a less than perfect ideal because that is what is winning. It's created lots of problems and confusion, especially because in some cases there are now differences between the breed standards as held by the AKC and those held by various international registries as the breed clubs within the AKC work to have their standard modified occasionally so the winning dogs they're breeding actually match the standard they're supposed to be breeding to. This has created divisions within certain breeds, creating "show lines" that match the winning style and "work lines" which in general hold to the breed standard, but put a lot more emphasis on breeding a dog that does what the breed was meant to do. (Off the top of my head this is seen most often in a lot of herding breeds - particularly Border Collies and Australian Shepherds - a few working breeds, and a lot of sporting breeds.) The other main issue with the AKC is it still requires docking of tails for many breeds and ear cropping (sometimes optional, sometimes not) for many - both of which are cruel (IMO) unless the docking/cropping was originally required for safety reasons (terriers usually have docked tails to give their quarry less of something to hold onto if they fight back, etc) and you actually plan on using the dog for its intended purposes.

I have a friend who is a Cane Corso breeder and she is both quite excited and somewhat apprehensive that her breed has been added. On one hand it opens so many more doors for her and her dogs as far as competitions, evaluations, credibility etc goes but on the other hand now that its in the limelight she's very nervous that some of the things so important to the breed (like their temperament) will be forgotten in the effort to produce that perfect, winning dog. Temperament isn't exactly something you want to slack on for an Italian Mastiff, it's a bit of a recipe for disaster.

Overall I don't actually have much of a beef with the AKC. I intend to get (back?) into the show/breeding world once we have the space/money etc. It's really a very good organization, for the most part. But like all organizations, it's not perfect, and there are definitely people and breeders in it that give it kind of a sour edge for everyone else.

[ciyates]

I got my Cane Corso while we lived in Italy and it was the best dog I ever had. We brought her back to the US when we transfered and were shocked to see what the breed had deteriorated into in the US.

[weaver_67579]

can be a double edged sword.

 

On the one hand, it can bring credibility and opportunities for the breed that can't be had without recognition, such as opportunities to compete with your dogs in breed and performance settings.

 

On the other-AKC recognition may lead to the breed being more recognized in the public and lead less than ethical breeders to produce more dogs to meet the wants of a public that is often less than educated about owning whatever breed it is. It is also one of the reasons reputable breeders hate to see their breed in movies-the public has to have them...even if they shouldn't. I had a rescue Dalmatian from the 101 Dalmatians era. He was very poorly bred with terrible conformation and was very dominant. In the wrong home he could have been a disaster. Also what a previous poster listed as the breed sometimes moving from the conformation and temperment of whatever the breed was originally designed for to that of what is winning can also happen. On the other hand plenty of the AKC show dogs adhere more tightly to the original type and function of the breed than the backyard bred ones-it just depends. (such as who would want to drag a 120 pound lab into a boat while hunting)

[astrid]

Thanks, Allene.

 

It's been a long, long haul. I have been President of the Leonberger Club of America for the past three years, but have been an Officer in the Board of Directors for the past six, which is when this whole AKC journey began. It's been draining, both physically and emotionally. My term ended in April, and our bylaws state that I must sit off a year before running again for a board position. Haven't decided whether I will or not.

 

For anyone who's interested, here's the short version of a very long story:

 

The Leonberger Club of America (LCA) is the founding breed club for Leonbergers in the USA. We just celebrated our 25th anniversary, and have a VERY large membership-- over 1,000 members, most of whom are pet owners and do not breed or show. OUr national specialty shows are big family reunions, and it's an amazing, amazing breed club. Our club motto is "Great Dogs, Great People" and I can say unequivocally that it's true. More than true.

 

The LCA flew under the AKC radar for 20 years. We had six active regional clubs who each held two shows per year, and our national specialty. Members showed in UKC, IABCA, and Rare Heirs shows, and we were all happy. We brought European judges over to judge our nationa specialty and consult with breeders in seminars so that we could keep the breed meticulously close to the original European/German dog. We didn't want to develop an "American Type Leonberger" and above all, health and temperament were what we bred for. The LCA was a partner in the International Leonberger Union, supported two very active breed rescue groups and a very influential Health Foundation, and prided ourselves on our dedication to the health and welfare of our breed and to the family roots. But mostly we had picnics and get togethers, hugged puppies, watched the dogs play and get muddy and happy, and loved our big hair breed and each other.

 

Then 5 years ago a few members of the LCA who were very interested in showing split off, formed a rival club and filed the AKC paperwork. From then on it was foregone conclusion that the breed WOULD go AKC, it was just a matter of which club (now that there were two) would be named the Parent Club by the AKC. We (the LCA) didn't want to be AKC recognized because with the AKC comes irresponsible breeding, an increased public awareness of the breed and an end to the strict breeding Code of Ethics and controls that we as a club were able to place on the breeding. Our Code of Ethics forbade breeding dogs who did not have extensive health and temperament clearnaces. AKC doesn't allow those restrictions. We watched what happened to, for instance, the Bernese Mountain Dog, the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, the German Shepherd Dog and a host of other breeds who are far, far away now from what they were originally bred for, and plagued by horrific health issues. Even the Berner folks themselves will tell you that the life expectancy of their breed is now about 5 years. Cancer is rampant. It's so sad.

 

So anyway in the end it was decided by the Board of Directors, and a full vote of the membership, to pursue Parent Club Status so that we could be better positioned to protect the breed going forward. As the PC, WE would be the ones to write the AKC breed standard, staying true to the European type, educate judges, handle the health foundation and rescue groups, and be positioned for public awareness campaigns. NO ONE was happy about it, but it was the better part of valor.

 

I was president during this time. It was heartbreaking for me and many others in the club to see our beloved dogs show up in puppy mills, backyard breeding operations and Amish dog breeding farms. Gut wrenching. We spent many years trying to position the breed to be in the safest possible place prior to our July 1, 2010 entry into the AKC's Working Group and full recognition. WE've been working so hard on public awareness, judges education, and health research. Managing all this and brokering/negotiating with the AKC has been basically a full-time job for me for the past six years. We never wanted to see our breed at Westminster, but here we are.

 

The dogs are big, hairy, bouncy, they shed, and they love the mud. They are NOT OUTSIDE DOGS. The are DEVOTED to their people and should NEVER be tied outside or required to live outside. There's so much we want to tell people, and we're petrified that impulse buying will result in tragic lives for many of our beloved breed. I've had too many conversations with people in other breeds who have seen it happen to their world too many times. Don't get me wrong-- we're active show people. We have nice dogs and we love to show and train for conformation and performance events. Molly is active in AKC Junior showmanship and we show to win. But the world is about to change for us.

 

So there is the very short version of a very long saga. Yes, I'm sad today. Very sad, and very worried. I'm hugging my Leos extra close, and bracing for what the future holds. I hope I"m wrong. I hope that all this stress and worry has been for naught. God help me I hope I"m wrong. I pray I'm wrong. In the meantime I'm still doing all I can to educate the public. I have to work at a teachers workshop today or that would be me and my dogs on Fox and MSNBC. AKC is all about marketing, but at least I could have snuck in comments about the hair, the size, the mess, and the expense of their upkeep.

[astrid]

I got my Cane Corso while we lived in Italy and it was the best dog I ever had. We brought her back to the US when we transfered and were shocked to see what the breed had deteriorated into in the US.

 

And unfortunately, you ain't seen nothin' yet. :crying:

 

Astrid

[Stacia]

:grouphug:

[hornblower]

Oh no. :-(

 

The AKC = cash cow. When they stop registering "high volume breeders" (aka puppy mill and amish dog farm) THEN they might recoup some of their status in my eyes.

 

They've 'wrecked' breeds pretty fast. You know the border collie people folks call the AKC bc 'barbie collies'. Pretty but not much else.

 

For people who want to learn about why some are so unhappy about the AKC, this is a good book on the subject

 

The Dog Wars - how the border collie battled the AKC

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Wars-Border-Battled-American/dp/0979469007 - the amazon reviews will give you a good outline of the issues

 

There is also a great BBC documentary called Pedigree Dogs Exposed which focuses on the UK kennel club. It was shown in Canada - not sure if it was in the US. There are clips & a synopsis online.

 

Astrid - I am fortuanate enough to have regular play dates with a leo. They're still really rare here. It's the only one I've ever seen! Wonderful dog (but has wracked up a large vet bill & she's only 2.)

 

 

(p.s. cane corsos here are the new status symbol for gangs and gang wanna be thugs. THOSE I've seen lots of, sadly. They pop up in shelters frequently.)

Edited June 30, 2010 by hornblower
"pop up", NOT pup. Though pup is also true..... :-(

[dansamy]

You know the border collie people folks call the AKC bc 'barbie collies'. Pretty but not much else.

 

Quoted for truth. Working border collies are a very different animal than the AKC-registered show lines.

[astrid]

Yep. Couldn't agree more. Same goes for almost any working breed-- just look at the weak topline and ridiculously overangulated rear on show German Shepherds, then look at one from working lines. Completely different animal.

 

astrid

[dansamy]

Same with actual "field" Labradors. They almost look like a "Lab mix" compared to show lines.

[Audrey]

Yep. Couldn't agree more. Same goes for almost any working breed-- just look at the weak topline and ridiculously overangulated rear on show German Shepherds, then look at one from working lines. Completely different animal.

 

astrid

 

 

I think it is the same for Great Pyrenees, yes? Our old farm dog (may he rest in doggie peace) was an abandoned pup. It is likely he may not be entirely purebred -- hard to say since we just found him at a no-kill shelter. But he was a much sturdier dog than the ones I've seen on tv dog shows. He also lived to be 15 years old, which I think is pretty darn awesome for such a large dog. He was a good working dog his whole life (except the last year when the arthritis was too much for him, poor babe). Dang... making me cry here. I miss that old fellow. The farm is not the same without him... not the same at all.

[Mejane]

Ugh, I hate hearing this. Designer dogs. :glare: I'm sorry, Astrid.

[Janet in Toronto]

[ATTACH]2747[/ATTACH]

 

This is "The Boys"

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing your picture! Regardless of their issues, they're very cute boys!

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think this BBC expose was shown on Frontline (pbs) a few months back. It was heartbreaking to see so many dogs suffering greatly because much of the conformation rules are about show, not about function. The stories about the brittany spaniels and the bulldogs were heartbreaking. The show judges were not interested in changing the conformation to improve the health of the breed. One show gave a best-in-breed award to a dog who had surgery to correct a breathing defect caused by the "breed standard."

[Mejane]

Assume this is why labs are so prone to hip dysplasia. :glare: