Restraining Orders Also (CC)

[5knights3maidens]

Can you get a restraining order against a 20 year old man who you believe is a threat to your family? If they send you an e-mail and say, " In 2 years "she" (dd) will be 18 and then she will be gone from you forever". And the police have already told this person to stay away (the police read this message). This person is 'not quite' 4 years older than dd (16). He seems to have a hold on dd. He has been told repeatedly to stay away and dd isn't listening either. He is a creep and I get a very sick feeling when I see him. He's a smooth talker and we believe a danger.

Please pray for dd that she will wake up before it is to late. (tears)

By the way, she met him at a church youth group last Sept. (Isn't he too old for a youth group)?

[Heather in Neverland]

i don't know but i would sure try. :grouphug:

[LibraryLover]

This is going to be tricky, as your dd may try to see him anyway, which pushes it all underground. You may also find she will minimize any of his negative behaviors to try and protect him, and get you to see his 'good side'. "Nobody understands him, Mom!".

 

How reachable is your dd? How open is she with you all about him? What does she say when you express your concerns? Does he have any record of criminal activity that you can share with her? Can the police talk to her? Will she try to run off with him despite the restraining order?

[JFSinIL]

If she is a minor and he is not - he can end up in a barrel of trouble, with a criminal record that will follow him FOREVER! Someone needs to point this out to him -

[JVA]

Our dd is currently in grad school for Marriage and Family counseling. She is doing her internship at a womens shelter in TX. At a group counseling session just last night, she heard story after story from women who got bamboozled by sweet-talking guys. They now live their lives looking over their shoulders with great regret and some have little ones to protect and hide. It's AWFUL. My heart goes out to them.

This test may be helpful for you and your daughter. If I were in your place, yes I'd get the restraining order and have her talk to a counselor to wake her up to the possibility that he could be controlling, possibly violent and ruin her life. Better to err on the side of caution. This test was talked about by the in-house therapists and also discussed in my dd's counseling class. It might open some eyes.

 

http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/MOSAIC-Gavin-de-Beckers-Online-Threat-Assessment-Tool

[LibraryLover]

Yes!

 

MOSIAC and Gavin de Becker. Amazing info.

 

 

Our dd is currently in grad school for Marriage and Family counseling. She is doing her internship at a womens shelter in TX. At a group counseling session just last night, she heard story after story from women who got bamboozled by sweet-talking guys. They now live their lives looking over their shoulders with great regret and some have little ones to protect and hide. It's AWFUL. My heart goes out to them.

This test may be helpful for you and your daughter. If I were in your place, yes I'd get the restraining order and have her talk to a counselor to wake her up to the possibility that he could be controlling, possibly violent and ruin her life. Better to err on the side of caution. This test was talked about by the in-house therapists and also discussed in my dd's counseling class. It might open some eyes.

 

http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/MOSAIC-Gavin-de-Beckers-Online-Threat-Assessment-Tool

[dragons in the flower bed]

If she is a minor and he is not - he can end up in a barrel of trouble, with a criminal record that will follow him FOREVER! Someone needs to point this out to him -

 

This was my thought too. If he does touch her, he's committed just about the worst crime a guy can commit and no one is going to look beyond the label to the fact that she was only four years younger than him. Does he want to be Googleable as a pedophile for the rest of his life? Does your daughter want that for him?

[KidsHappen]

You can get a restraining order until she is 18 but that may actually make your problems worse especially if your dd is not on board with this. You are in a very tough situation and I would not proceed further until you have talked to a counselor that specializes in teen issues. I been through this as both the mother and the daughter, both of which ended well although I have to admit that neither of the guys involved were creeps. I have to leave for an appointment in just a few minutes so I don't have time to cover this more deeply but the guy is right, if you do not proceed carefully you could lose your dd. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. :grouphug:

[BikeBookBread]

:grouphug: I don't have any advice, just prayers.

[dansamy]

I have a friend going through a similar situation. She filed a CHINS petition and had her daughter placed on probation, had the guy arrested, filed a restraining order, etc. You name it. She did it. 6 months after her dd turned 18, she found out that dd had continued to see the male in question, in secret and in violation of her probation. She gave the dd the ultimatum to choose him or her family. The child (because no 18yo is "grown") chose him. Child moved in with him, but since she is now "grown" according to LEO, there's not one whit she can do about it.

 

This couple waited (and saw each other in secret) and nothing her parents did stopped it. The daughter is now 19, dropping out of college and working two jobs to support said bum. They live with bum's other family members. Bum has no job, is a high school drop-out with a criminal record and has limited prospects for his future and less ambition.

 

It's a very sad situation all around and my friend's heart is deeply hurt that her dd would choose to abandon her family in favor of this male. I hope you are able to rescue your child from this impending situation. My friend did everything she knew to do and still lost her child to this male.

[Murphy101]

Other than age, what is creepy?

 

The email itself isn't threatening to me. It's factual. If you cannot bring dd on board, she will turn 18 (which is an adult) and be gone forever.

 

I'm not saying I'd be okay with it.

[Tidbits of Learning]

The truth is that he shouldn't have been involved in a teen youth group at 19 if he wasn't in school anymore. He should have been in a young adult group.

I would talk to the church about the situation. Maybe they can prevent it from happening to another teen girl. I have big issues with youth groups b/c of situations like this and the fun factor and boy/girl factor of youth groups.

For your situation, I would give dd strict rules to follow. The more you push this "man" out of her life, the more she will seek him out. I would make rules for her age. Yes, she can go out. She can't on school nights. I would make an established curfew and I would ask exactly where they were going on their "dates".

Since they met in youth group, then I would encourage and invite this man to church with the family. I would invite this man to family events. He probably will go away on his own after there is so much welcoming. Most of these guys want the control and to alienate the girls from family and friends where they come to trust and believe only what the guy says.

I have been in your daughter's position years ago. My mother started out trying to figure out ways to keep us apart and I was listening to the guy on how unfair they treated me and like I was a kid and I was losing all my friends...then my mother abruptly changed tactics and went to meet this guys parents with us and invited him over for everything. She basically quit playing the game he was wanting her to play. I started to listen to my Mom more since she was listening to me and giving the guy a chance. I was happy. The guy, however, was not. I was no longer going against my parents and friends. My eyes were opened a lot just by my Mom changing her tactics and rewriting the rules to the game.

Said guy soon let his eyes wonder to another even younger than I was girl and her parents soon started playing the game. I got a phone call from her a year after I broke up with the guy. I was dating my dh at the time and she called me to ask me if the overbearing guy had every hit me. I'm glad to say that it never got to that point, but had my mom not changed tactics I could very well have been that girl.

My advise is to change tactics. Tell your dd that you want to see what she sees in the guy. Invite him to dinner. Invite him to church with the family. Make sure dd knows he is invited to cousin Susie's b-day...basically kill him with kindness. He won't be able to turn her against you if you are going out of your way to find the good in him.

[Danestress]

and not all states have the same law. Here is one link (can't vouch for it, there are others I am sure) that talks about the age of consent in different states: http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/category/family-laws/age-of-consent-laws/

 

In my own state, there is nothing criminal about a man having s@xual relations with a 16 year old girl. Any age man. If the girl is under 16 aqnd the boy is more than 4 years older than he is, then there is a problem, but 16 year olds can consent to s@xual activity.

 

But that's not really your issue, OP. Your issue is that she's still a minor and under your legal authority, and even if that doesn't make him a pedophile or rapist, he is still violating your rules about your minor daughter. I am not sure that a restraining order will work here, since your daughter is not necessarily going to honor it and he is unlikely to be criminally liable if she's the one initiating contact.

 

Talk to an attorney, though. Again, the laws vary by jurisdiction, and perhaps there is something someone can do to help you.

 

I am so sorry, OP. I have no real advice for you.

[Joanne]

You need to read:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Saving-Beauty-Beast-Unhealthy-Relationship/dp/0316735523/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276711525&sr=1-1

 

Also helpful:

 

Why Does He Do That: inside the minds of abusive and controlling men by Luncy Brancroft

 

A normal, safe man does not do what he is doing/has done.

 

I would do EVERYTHING I could to prevent interaction and contact. EVERYTHING. IMO, this is NOT a situation where you allow contact, meet the parents, etc. This is beyond not liking his dress, language, table manners.

 

Even if physical abuse/violence/death does not occur, there are lifelong ramifications of having been involved with abusers.

[5knights3maidens]

Creepy: Has the look of a non trusting, sneaking person. (can't explain..this is from a my feelings and my dh. Well her brother thinks he is a predator...all ready check police records...nothing). "Very argumentive", only he is correct. Argued with dh for a long phone conversation. Read some letters I found...ohhhh, very creepy...saying things to divide her from me. Found him at public place with dd in his car, in daylight. He wouldn't get out, kept creeping down in his seat. Yelled at me from behind the glass. (she had been given the priviledge to ride her bike somewhere and abused it by calling him.

(she has now lost that priviledge, again.)

Edited to say; He's lucky I didn't climb onto the car or grab him from his seat.....My mother bear instincts were flying!!!

 

Back in December he took dd from a youth group "over-night" function...she was dropped off by dh and never went in.. (we are still trying to figure somethings out:confused:) Found out he also let her drive...??????? Trying to figure out when...she could have left a "youth group" night. Still trying to figure out where the adults were.

 

I did try and contact his mom...she will not respond.

Thank you for all your advice, ladies. You are great!

[Harriet Vane]

Creepy: Has the look of a non trusting, sneaking person. (can't explain..this is from a my feelings and my dh. Well her brother thinks he is a predator...all ready check police records...nothing). "Very argumentive", only he is correct. Argued with dh for a long phone conversation. Read some letters I found...ohhhh, very creepy...saying things to divide her from me. Found him at public place with dd in his car, in daylight. He wouldn't get out, kept creeping down in his seat. Yelled at me from behind the glass. (she had been given the priviledge to ride her bike somewhere and abused it by calling him.

(she has now lost that priviledge, again.)

Edited to say; He's lucky I didn't climb onto the car or grab him from his seat.....My mother bear instincts were flying!!!

 

Back in December he took dd from a youth group "over-night" function...she was dropped off by dh and never went in.. (we are still trying to figure somethings out:confused:) Found out he also let her drive...??????? Trying to figure out when...she could have left a "youth group" night. Still trying to figure out where the adults were.

 

I did try and contact his mom...she will not respond.

Thank you for all your advice, ladies. You are great!

 

Trust your instincts.

 

I like Joanne's advice.

 

I'll say it again--trust your instincts.

 

:grouphug:

[5knights3maidens]

I'm going to get that book. Thanks, Joanne.

Thank you all.

[FaithManor]

My cousin had success with her daughter by volunteering at a woman's shelter (her dd went with her in order to earn back some privileges). She saw abused woman after abused woman, frightened children, etc.

 

She also had a couple of trusted police officers from their community "talk turkey to her". They told her that the best outcome they could see for her was that she'd end up working her hiney off to support the bum while he drank or drugged the money away and beat the living daylights out of her on a regular basis and that the worst was they'd be identifying her body by dental records. The one officer's exact words were, "If there is enough left of you to identify at the morgue who do you think would hold up the best for that, your mom or your dad?"

 

Don't mean to be gruesome. Obviously, these two scenarios are extremes but they wanted to scare her into using her head and it worked.

 

I would apply for the restraining order and constantly use these words to the judge "I feel stalked. He's stalking us. I am afraid for dd to be alone for even a second, etc."

 

My niece came to live with us when she was stalked by a slime she met on the internet and then sneaked off to the library to see in person. We lived far enough away that being given a 6 month custody of her kept her safe and allowed that hold to be broken. We had the internet on full lock-down (thankfully dh is a computer professional by career and knew how to do it), we got rid of our land-line phone and used only cell phones which we carried on our person. She was not allowed access except to call her parents or her therapist and we remained in the room while she used the phone and removed it from her hands when the conversation was over with. So, if you have a trusted relative who lives far enough away that this would cause a complete break with the slime, you might want to consider it.

 

Our niece's other family and friends were not even told of her whereabouts. On her birthday, her parents collected birthday cards from some individuals and then forwarded them on to us. Absolutely no contact. At first, she was pretty hard hearted about it. But, after being forced to confront how her actions had lead to this extreme event in her life just to keep her safe, she finally wised up and started cooperating. She was clincially depressed and that also caused her to not be able to see the bum for what he was. After three months of therapy, St. John's Wart, exercise and nutrition therapy, and counseling with a youth pastor who was very wise in dealing with rebelious kids, she really came around. Please consider that maybe your dd needs intervention on this level. She may be having another problem that could be exacerbating her lack of judgment or be the total cause of her inability to "see" the hold her has on her.

 

Faith

[Parrothead]

Can you send your dd to Grandma's for the summer?

[Willow]

My sis is a probation officer.

 

The first thing they were taught is NEVER EVER ignore that creepy feeling in the back of your neck. Just get out, fast.

 

If he creeps you out, rather than you just dislike him seeing your dd, then don't ignore it.

 

I wish I had practical advice, but i just have hugs :grouphug:

[beezus]

The grounds for stalking orders and abuse restraining orders can vary by state, so you'd probably want to talk to an attorney in your state about what the requirements are for obtaining one. If you can't afford a lawyer, your state bar association or justice department may have some links on their web sites that could help you figure this out. Even if you get one, the problem is your daughter may still be sneaking around and contacting him. Plus, if a abuser is set on violating a restraining order, he will find a way to do it. Not saying it wouldn't be worthwhile to pursue it, but a RO is not necessarily a cure all. You can't do much to fix him, but hopefully you can work on your daughter and convince her to turn her attention elsewhere.

 

Kathleen

[Danestress]

In a number of states - maybe the majority. I'm not sure what state the OP is from, or you either, but it's not a crime in my state. Most states have 16 or 17 as the age of consent. It varies, but even a 50 year old having sex with a 16 year old is not a crime in many states.

 

This was my thought too. If he does touch her, he's committed just about the worst crime a guy can commit and no one is going to look beyond the label to the fact that she was only four years younger than him. Does he want to be Googleable as a pedophile for the rest of his life? Does your daughter want that for him?

[ereks mom]

...a battered women's shelter, or at the local domestic violence advocate's office, or at your county solicitor's office (or other office who handles domestic abuse cases). When he was in high school, ER worked part-time at the domestic violence advocate's office (that individual is a family friend, and hired him because she knew him well), and one of his duties was to sit in on victims' interviews and take case notes. It was VERY eye-opening--and disturbing.

[Joanne]

Other than age, what is creepy?

 

The email itself isn't threatening to me. It's factual. If you cannot bring dd on board, she will turn 18 (which is an adult) and be gone forever.

 

I'm not saying I'd be okay with it.

 

Really? :001_huh::confused:

 

Can you get a restraining order against a 20 year old man who you believe is a threat to your family? If they send you an e-mail and say, " In 2 years "she" (dd) will be 18 and then she will be gone from you forever". And the police have already told this person to stay away (the police read this message). This person is 'not quite' 4 years older than dd (16). He seems to have a hold on dd. He has been told repeatedly to stay away and dd isn't listening either. He is a creep and I get a very sick feeling when I see him. He's a smooth talker and we believe a danger.

Please pray for dd that she will wake up before it is to late. (tears)

By the way, she met him at a church youth group last Sept. (Isn't he too old for a youth group)?

 

The facts:

 

1) He was old to attend a yg.

2) He emailed the parents with a threat "will be gone from you forever".

3) He emailed the parents, period. :glare:

4) He is not honoring the law or the adults involved.

 

Red flags all over.

[Slartibartfast]

Other than age, what is creepy?

 

The email itself isn't threatening to me. It's factual. If you cannot bring dd on board, she will turn 18 (which is an adult) and be gone forever.

 

I'm not saying I'd be okay with it.

 

His behavior, the email ect ect The whole thing sounds creepy and crazy

 

He needs a butt whupping. I would complain to the church and also file the RO

Edited June 16, 2010 by Sis

[fivetails]

1) He was old to attend a yg.

 

 

One of the churches in our town has their Youth Group for ages 12-22. It's not the first one that I've seen run up to that age or thereabouts either - I don't agree with it, as I think that's too big of an age spread for most activities, but it does happen.

[Joanne]

One of the churches in our town has their Youth Group for ages 12-22. It's not the first one that I've seen run up to that age or thereabouts either - I don't agree with it, as I think that's too big of an age spread for most activities, but it does happen.

 

It's part of a whole, cumulative issue. In conjunction with everything else, a legal adult attending a YG and developing and sustaining an interest in a minor that is unwelcome by adults = trouble.

[Cindy in the NH Woods]

It's part of a whole, cumulative issue. In conjunction with everything else, a legal adult attending a YG and developing and sustaining an interest in a minor that is unwelcome by adults = trouble.

 

Absolutely. Folks that age belong to College & Career groups, or other adult groups.

 

Praying for your family, Margarete. :grouphug: He is able, and our help.

[elizabeth]

I suggest you look up the age of majority in your state. It might be the case that the police can file charges. In any event, apply for the restraining order. Trying to be polite or not to estrange dd will not work ,that ship has sailed. In fact, if he is such a punk that he slinks down in his seat he likely will be scared ****less by a restraining order. Act now before it is too late. I have seen these situations go downhill rather quickly in my experience. The fact that she is engaging in these behaviours indicates that things are already at what I call a zero sum game. Someone will win and the other will lose. We want the lame o slinking , sneaking , creeper who leaves slime in his trail to be the loser. The alternative is horrible . She will not get the message until her brain has had time to clear itself and reset to rational thought. Abusers are really skilled at throwing perfectly reasonable, sane and competent adult women off their stride, trust me this weasel has managed to simultaneously rupture your relationship with her through building her up and then tearing her down so she will not leave. This stinks. Give me 5 minutes with that $%####...I am really sorry you are dealing with this.

[Slartibartfast]

Do you know your state's laws regarding this sort of relationship? Each state has very different laws, I know in some states you could have him prosecuted but I don't know which state you are in.

[Slartibartfast]

I suggest you look up the age of majority in your state. It might be the case that the police can file charges. In any event, apply for the restraining order. Trying to be polite or not to estrange dd will not work ,that ship has sailed. In fact, if he is such a punk that he slinks down in his seat he likely will be scared ****less by a restraining order. Act now before it is too late. I have seen these situations go downhill rather quickly in my experience. The fact that she is engaging in these behaviours indicates that things are already at what I call a zero sum game. Someone will win and the other will lose. We want the lame o slinking , sneaking , creeper who leaves slime in his trail to be the loser. The alternative is horrible . She will not get the message until her brain has had time to clear itself and reset to rational thought. Abusers are really skilled at throwing perfectly reasonable, sane and competent adult women off their stride, trust me this weasel has managed to simultaneously rupture your relationship with her through building her up and then tearing her down so she will not leave. This stinks. Give me 5 minutes with that $%####...I am really sorry you are dealing with this.

 

I agree, this guy is a major douche. If he realizes you are going to pay hardball he may slink off.

[fivetails]

1) He was old to attend a yg.

 

One of the churches in our town has their Youth Group for ages 12-22. It's not the first one that I've seen run up to that age or thereabouts either - I don't agree with it, as I think that's too big of an age spread for most activities, but it does happen.

 

It's part of a whole, cumulative issue. In conjunction with everything else, a legal adult attending a YG and developing and sustaining an interest in a minor that is unwelcome by adults = trouble.

 

 

Yes, there's certainly other things at play here ~ I was just commenting on the Youth Group part as some YGs have a wider range for the age of their members.

[jillian]

Please mama follow your gut. There is a reason us women have that intuition. I was in a situation that turned abusive (sexually and physically not to mention all of the emotional/psychological trauma I STILL deal with) and I am so thankful that I was able to break free. He gave me an STD that will forever impact my life, etc.

 

I highly recommend that she volunteers at a battered woman's shelter; listen to those stories. I am fearful for her (it was so easy for me to be taken in by the glib, sweet talking man in my past).

[5knights3maidens]

Update: My friend will be talking with dd tomorrow. She has, unfortunately, gone through something like this. She also has initiated a prayer chain through e-mail. Thanks everyone.