Wee Pip Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Curious about this... Learned this from a relative of ours. Her son is advanced in math, and took pre-alg in 5th grade in public school. Next year, all the 6th graders will be combined in one level and all will take pre-algebra (i.e., advanced and behind kids are all taking the same level). The mom is upset because her son excelled in pre-alg this year but will be forced to take pre-alg again next year. He should be taking Intermediate Algebra. Anyhow... Yes, it is sad that the public schools are forcing all 6th gr kids of all abilities to be in the same level, and I think this system will TANK big time, but the other part of me is saying... Pre-algebra in 6th grade??? Really??? :001_huh: When I was in school, all the smartest kids took pre-alg in 7th gr. Most homeschool math texts are doing pre-alg in 7th-8th gr. I know elementary texts are using pre-alg concepts in their books, but I'm still really dumbfounded by the idea that everyone would be taking pre-alg in 6th gr. Curious to know your reaction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keniki Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I wonder if he was really taking pre-algebra or if pre-algebra skills were covered and therefore Mom decided he was taking pre-algebra. I've heard people do this before. It's misleading, but somehow it seems to feed their ego or something. In our area, 8th grade pre-algebra is the "norm", fast-track kids take it in 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I think some places do prealgebra over a two year period. Maybe that's what this school is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Curious about this...Learned this from a relative of ours. Her son is advanced in math, and took pre-alg in 5th grade in public school. Next year, all the 6th graders will be combined in one level and all will take pre-algebra (i.e., advanced and behind kids are all taking the same level). The mom is upset because her son excelled in pre-alg this year but will be forced to take pre-alg again next year. He should be taking Intermediate Algebra. Anyhow... Yes, it is sad that the public schools are forcing all 6th gr kids of all abilities to be in the same level, and I think this system will TANK big time, but the other part of me is saying... Pre-algebra in 6th grade??? Really??? :001_huh: When I was in school, all the smartest kids took pre-alg in 7th gr. Most homeschool math texts are doing pre-alg in 7th-8th gr. I know elementary texts are using pre-alg concepts in their books, but I'm still really dumbfounded by the idea that everyone would be taking pre-alg in 6th gr. Curious to know your reaction... Knowing public schools, the course may very well not BE pre-algebra, and just be called that. I have seen many public schools claiming that their elementary students were doing early algebra because they used letters instead of boxes in the simple equations the children solved. On the other hand, real pre-algebra in 6th grade does fit in with the current trend of pushing advanced classes earlier and earlier, without establishing a firm foundation in the beginning classes first. [it occurs to me that one reason all 6th graders are being lumped into the same math class is shortage of funds to pay teachers. Since fewer teachers are employed, fewer classes can be offered. So, instead of classes (and teachers) for remedial, average, and advanced (and maybe even gifted, though that has often been lumped in together with advanced anyway), the school only has to offer one class: 6th grade math.] Our state, along with many others, now requires ALL students to take Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 for basic high school graduation. This includes the kids who have no aspirations beyond hair dresser or department store manager. Many of these kids are not CAPABLE of truly mastering the material in Algebra 2. They would be better served by being given a rock solid foundation in basic arithmetic, fractions, decimals, and percents. Instead, they will be given a superficial acquaintance with algebra concepts to go along with their vague understanding of basic math. The same approach is taken to English. Students graduate with poor skills in reading, speaking, and writing, but with fancy course titles. To make things worse, the kids who could have excelled in such classes are held back as the courses are watered down for the students who are not ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 It really depends on what they consider pre-algebra, but around here, algebra is the norm for 8th, so pre-algebra would be 7th, not 6th. I would be irritated if he's going to be doing the exact same pre-algebra book again. I suspect what they're really doing is cutting the gifted program due to funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 In my middle school, we took pre-algebra in sixth and seventh grades as a two part course. In eighth grade, advanced kids would be put into year one of "integrated mathematics." The rest of us did another year of pre-algebra. I didn't realize until I was out of school and looking at homeschooling materials that pre-alg is meant to be a one year course, not the term for what you do after elementary school but before high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I saw K12 is doing this. It is two years of prealgebra. The same basic prealgebra but spread over two years and written at a lower level than the high school text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I was part of a pilot program at my middle school where we skipped pre-algebra completely and did algebra in 7th grade and geometry in 8th. They kept that program of having 7th grade algebra and 8th grade geometry for some kids but gave the 6th graders pre-algebra instead of throwing them straight in. (Because we all had a really hard time!) That was over 15 years ago and schools seem to be pushing advanced classes on younger students, so I wouldn't be surprised if some districts now had everyone doing pre-algebra in 6th. My son was in 2nd in public school last year and they were already introducing them to math with letter variables like 5+X=7 and x/2=4/8. I don't think it is much different than what we learned in 2nd except our teachers put a question mark in place of the Xs and Ys that my son was seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 My sister took Pre-Algebra in 6th grade at her public school. And she just finished Algebra I in 7th. It was an actual Algebra I class using the standard Holt Algebra book. At her school, they really push the kids in math and science. All of the kids in the school (a fairly large school) are expected to take Algebra by 8th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I was trying to decide what track to get my dc on. When I chose LoF for math last year, I was fortunate enough to have a great email conversation with the author. He is quite against early algebra, saying that the kids' brains just aren't mature enough to really get the concepts. He told me there was absolutely no reason for anyone to take algebra until " they grew underarm hair". :D I have also read studies online that point to problems with comprehension in later math classes with earlier algebra courses. My DS will be taking algebra in 8th next year at the PS, and I'm having my younger DS take a second year of pre-algebra rather than advance him before 8th grade. 8th grade algebra is pretty standard in this school district now - but there are still quite a few kids who take it as a Freshman in high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheryl in SoCal Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I was trying to decide what track to get my dc on. When I chose LoF for math last year, I was fortunate enough to have a great email conversation with the author. He is quite against early algebra, saying that the kids' brains just aren't mature enough to really get the concepts. He told me there was absolutely no reason for anyone to take algebra until " they grew underarm hair". :D I have also read studies online that point to problems with comprehension in later math classes with earlier algebra courses. My DS will be taking algebra in 8th next year at the PS, and I'm having my younger DS take a second year of pre-algebra rather than advance him before 8th grade. 8th grade algebra is pretty standard in this school district now - but there are still quite a few kids who take it as a Freshman in high school. Isn't he just the best?! I totally agree, and think pushing advanced math on the younger kids is going to have the opposite effect than the one they hope. In my area most students take Algebra in 9th grade and it's still offered to upper high school students, even in private schools. You only need 2 years of math to graduate and I think you only have to go as high as Algebra 1:001_huh: I think my username will explain the low standards;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Algebra 1 in 7th is the new norm for the honors math track in many places. That way kids can get through Differential Calculus in 11th and Integral Calculus & Differential Equations in 12th. This is a change from when I went through in the '90's where the honors track was Pre-Algebra in 7th, Algebra 1 in 8th and (Differential) Calculus in 12th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I was trying to decide what track to get my dc on. When I chose LoF for math last year, I was fortunate enough to have a great email conversation with the author. He is quite against early algebra, saying that the kids' brains just aren't mature enough to really get the concepts. He told me there was absolutely no reason for anyone to take algebra until " they grew underarm hair". :D I have also read studies online that point to problems with comprehension in later math classes with earlier algebra courses. Why is it then that many Asian and European countries can get their kids ready for Algebra in 7th? The reason is they do a much better job teaching elementary and middle school math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I went through Pre-Algebra in 6th in the Honors track in the 90s. I really think this varies by location and whether the schools have 6th grade housed in an elementary or middle school. If it is a middle school, they are more likely to offer Pre-Algebra in 6th grade to prep for Algebra 1 or Statistics and other seemingly more Jr. High classes which is what the middle school model advocates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in the Country Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I spent my middle school years across two different school districts in two different states. In the 6th grade, I was taught pre-algebra type topics. I don't know whether it qualified as "pre-algebra" though. That district school kept all kids together for 6th grade math, then in 7th the gifted kids went to went on to "Algebra 1/2". I remember learning about negative numbers and solving for a variable in the 6th grade. In 7th, I went on to Alg. 1/2, but it was almost a complete Alg. 1 course. I only know that because I moved to a different state for 8th grade Algebra 1 in a different school district. I didn't encounter any new material until the last few weeks of the school year. It was a boring year. My new school district didn't offer anything higher than Alg. 1 for 8th graders, so I was just stuck. All this to say, some kids can handle math at this level. It is possible even without hairy armpits. (And I love the author of LoF, but as a formerly bored-stiff math student, I respectfully disagree with him here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 All this to say, some kids can handle math at this level. It is possible even without hairy armpits. :iagree: In fact, I don't think anyone would completely DISagree as there are students who are very math-minded and excel in math at an early age. What I find troublesome is when a school pushes all students to excel at the same advanced rate and/or age...hairy armpits or not. I think there should remain an advanced math track, and a average-Joe math track. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENEEinVA Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Within the next 5 years, I believe good ol' Northern VA is moving to have ALL students complete Algebra I by 9th grade, whether they are ready for it or not. Most advanced students take it in 7th grade, however, and there are some who complete Alg. I before they even leave elementary school. Those are usually the students who move on to the topnotch science & technology school here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in the Country Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 What I find troublesome is when a school pushes all students to excel at the same advanced rate and/or age...hairy armpits or not. I think there should remain an advanced math track, and a average-Joe math track. ;) :iagree: Oh I totally agree. This is where I am glad I homeschool. If a school district keeps all age-peers together until the 7th grade, there is no way to prepare the advanced students for Algebra in 7th, unless pre-algebra is taught for EVERYONE in 6th. Some schools may separate their students out into individual math classes in 6th which would be better imo. Just the nature of the beast I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Pip Posted June 11, 2010 Author Share Posted June 11, 2010 My 7 & 9yo are developing arm-pit hair early, but they are not ready for algebra! LOL. Nice correlation, though;) A little background info: the relative's school is having funding issues. They closed a few schools and are re-organizing. The 6th gr used to be elementary, but are getting placed in a middle school with 7th & 8th. In order to keep the classes separated, they are having the class periods run at different times (3 different bells!) Because there is no mixing of the classes, then they can only offer 1 level of math for all 6th graders, and so on. Pre-algebra is a 1 yr course - Intermediate Algebra is the next step up (I don't know if Intermediate = Alg 1, or if it's been broken down). This is in Michigan where the grad requirements have recently changed to say that you can only get a diploma if you complete Alg I, Geo, Alg II, and one more year of Math (like pre-calc, since consumer math does not count). This means that you absolutely must complete Alg I in 9th gr or earlier to meet this requirement, or you will not qualify for a diploma. Yeah, it's rather interesting! Glad I homeschool :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Its the norm here in my neck of the woods. My oldest did pre algebra in 5th ( she was a year ahead in math). Then retook it again this year for 6th as she was NOT at all ready for pre algebra. But both times it was pre algebra. From what I gather this is about right in the ps system in our state and in our area. I think its wrong because its pushing to fast. Unless the child is truely ready 6th graders are not ready for pre algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheryl in SoCal Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Its the norm here in my neck of the woods. My oldest did pre algebra in 5th ( she was a year ahead in math). Then retook it again this year for 6th as she was NOT at all ready for pre algebra. But both times it was pre algebra. From what I gather this is about right in the ps system in our state and in our area. I think its wrong because its pushing to fast. Unless the child is truely ready 6th graders are not ready for pre algebra. :iagree:There will always be exceptions but I don't think most 6th graders are ready for a true Pre-Algebra course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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