Yes, 🙂 I know dyslexia isn’t a math problem per se, but the learning challenges that cause dyslexia affect math learning too! My 12 year old (7th grade) dyslexic daughter struggles with new concepts, and takes lots of repetition to remember how to do new things in math. This has slowed our progress down greatly. She is currently about halfway through Saxon 6/5 and it has worked well for her because it gives lots of practice. However, we’ve definitely tweaked the way we use it, because it takes SO MUCH TIME- especially for her. She is my fifth child, and watching two of my older children hit a wall once they hit Saxon pre-algebra or algebra is making me think I will need to find a different program for her. The amount of work was overwhelming for these two who may have been slow processors/ ADD, but were not dyslexic (or at least not severely) on top of it. The problem is, both of those children decided to go to public school for high school, where they thrived in math, but I have no idea what to do with this child at home for a curriculum that won’t take her hours and hours to complete each day. Both of my boys had math teachers who assigned much less homework than Saxon ever does, yet they both did well. She will have different challenges than they did, but I’m hoping some of you have some experience/advice for me on this. We may be able to stick it out through pre-algebra in Saxon if that’s what is necessary to complete that level of math without leaving gaps before we jump ship, but I really think Saxon algebra will be too much. But I’m open to suggestions with Saxon as well. Thanks!

Yes, 🙂 I know dyslexia isn’t a math problem per se, but the learning challenges that cause dyslexia affect math learning too! My 12 year old (7th grade) dyslexic daughter struggles with new concepts, and takes lots of repetition to remember how to do new things in math. This has slowed our progress down greatly. She is currently about halfway through Saxon 6/5 and it has worked well for her because it gives lots of practice. However, we’ve definitely tweaked the way we use it, because it takes SO MUCH TIME- especially for her. She is my fifth child, and watching two of my older children hit a wall once they hit Saxon pre-algebra or algebra is making me think I will need to find a different program for her. The amount of work was overwhelming for these two who may have been slow processors/ ADD, but were not dyslexic (or at least not severely) on top of it. The problem is, both of those children decided to go to public school for high school, where they thrived in math, but I have no idea what to do with this child at home for a curriculum that won’t take her hours and hours to complete each day. Both of my boys had math teachers who assigned much less homework than Saxon ever does, yet they both did well. She will have different challenges than they did, but I’m hoping some of you have some experience/advice for me on this. We may be able to stick it out through pre-algebra in Saxon if that’s what is necessary to complete that level of math without leaving gaps before we jump ship, but I really think Saxon algebra will be too much. But I’m open to suggestions with Saxon as well. Thanks!

I am wondering if anyone here has used Sadlier-Oxford Pre-Algebra program and Dimensions 7/8 (Singapore) Math and could give me some input on those programs.

So...I thought since there are quite a few threads going now on the topic of Pre-Algebra, it might be helpful to have one master thread to discuss texts, and to link to previous conversations. (Links at the bottom) I will post a link to my blog once I get photos up, as I know some of the texts are hard to preview online (Lial's, in particular) I have received Dolciani PreAlgebra: An Accelerated Course (1985) and Lial's Pre-Algebra Third Edition in the mail this past week. I already own Lial's BCM and AoPS Pre-A. So I think I have shopped enough that I can now safely make my decision...:D Initial impressions of Dolciani and Lials: Dolciani Pre Algebra: An Accelerated Course 1985 thorough, dry, no color, few pictures/images, black text with some color fonts as headers to different sections. Problems: divided into A (basic) B (more challenging) and C (challenging) problems. Word problems are dull, but serviceable. If your child didn't have trouble with Singapore CWP, he/she won't find these too hard, certainly not in the first part of the book. Odd answers in the back of the student book. Percents Chapter has the following sections: Percent of Increase or Decrease, Discount and Markup, Commision and Profit, Percents and Proportions, Simple Interest, Compound Interest, Percents and Problem Solving. Sample Word Problem: Gilbert wants to borrow $2250 for 3 years to remodel his garage. The annual rate is 18%. If the principal and interest are to be repaid in equal monthly installments, how much will each installment be? Sample Word PRoblem 2: If a car uses 5 gallons of gas to travel 160 miles, how many gallons would the car use in traveling 96 mi Lial's Pre-Algebra, Third Edition: Thorough, more visually appealing than Dolciani. Some might say it's more visually cluttered, but I don't agree. I think the colored fonts are used well to highlight important information. Sidebars on each page provide problems that are linked directly to the text they are next to, so it's easy to pinpoint areas of weakness in your student. Word problems seem more 'real-life'. Each chapter has sub-sections outlining how to solve different sorts of problems. For example, the Percent chapter has subsections entitled: Changing Percents to Decimals by Moving the Decimal Point, Changing Decimals to Percents by Moving the Decimal Point, Wrting Percents as Fractions, Writing Decimal Percents or Fractions Percents as Fractions, Writing Fractions as Percents, Finding 100% of a Number, Finding 50% of a Number. Each explanation is clear and shows a few examples. Sample Word Problem:In the hospital pharmacy, Michiko sees that a medicine is to be given at a rate of 3.5 mg for every 50 lbs of body weight. How much medicine should be given to a patient weighing 210 pounds? As point of reference, this question shows up about halfway through the book. Sample Word Problem 2: Ms Henderson owes $1900 in taxes. She is charged a penalty of 12 1/4 % annual interest and pays the taxes and penalty after 6 months. How much does she pay? Both text have built-in review and self-tests. I think Lial's has more concrete examples, Dolciani assumes a bit more. Lials' questions seem more...interesting. With Lial's I think you'd have to be careful that your child wasn't just following the steps: the steps are so clear, that a child could potentially follow formulas rather than truly understand the concept. Throwing in some Singapore CWP 6 or AoPS Pre-A would certainly reveal that. Dolciani is more old-fashioned and perhaps less suitable to a younger child. Okay, so I have more to say, and want to talk about AoPS and BCM too, but I'm tired and I'd rather here what others have to say. Links to recent threads on Pre-A: Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6

Hello -- My daughter is currently about 12 lessons into the most current Horizons Pre-Algebra program and it really isn't working for her. She is generally pretty good at math but is frustrated with Horizons because it is asking her to solve problems without showing her the steps necessary in order to accurately do so. For example, the way square roots were explained was that a square root of any given number is a multiple of that number. End of story. The lesson then proceeded to ask her to solve several square root problems. Occasionally it will ask her to perform a certain task and then explain the necessary steps a few lessons later. Perhaps this works for some, but it has led to lots of discouragement for her. Any recommendations for a program which is challenging but thorough as far as providing clear explanations and examples with each concept introduced? Thank you

My seventh grade daughter, age 12, is working through AOPS pre-algebra right now. She is a good math student and enjoys math. She aspires to be an engineer some day. She is frustrated daily by AOPS but is loathe to switch programs. I think she might benefit from a supplemental text to offer a little more practice and more explanation when the discovery method fails her. Thoughts? Suggestions?

HI, I am looking at switching my son from MUS (he's finishing Zeta now) to Tablet Class Pre.-Alg., but I have a question: Does TC Pre-Alg cover negative numbers? I read on a previous posting the recommendation to start TC only after the negative number teaching in MUS. I'd really prefer to avoid buying MUS and TC in one year. Thanks for your help, Rachel

Hi, I have a gifted 10 year old that will be officially in 5th grade in the fall. I am trying to nail down what to use for math with him. Math is definitely his best and easiest subject for him. He is doing Horizons Math 4 right now, coupled with Singapore Math 4. He's doing just the student book in the Singapore "just for fun" and by choice. He is good at self-teaching, which is great since math is not my best subject. For fall, should I continue with Horizons 5? Should we do Singapore Math 5 too, as I am sure he will ask for it? Or, I also had someone ask me if we were starting him in pre-algebra, which is what he would be in if he was at the local public school. I know nothing yet about pre-algebra material or curriculum. What is the best age to begin that? Any tips or advice? Since math is not my best subject, I would prefer to either have it set up to where he can learn on his own or where it requires minimal teaching. :) Thanks!

I know there's much anxiety over selecting a pre-algebra program. DS just completed AoPS Pre-Algebra and I kept detailed notes throughout so I decided to share it with the Hive. If you don't know much about AoPS, the company teaches mathematics using the discovery method. The student works through example problems that gradually increase in difficulty to teach a particular concept. After the example section, there is an explanation of the concept taught. There's often call-out boxes with important notes. After the section, there are exercises for the student to work through. At the end of every chapter, there's a review section and challenge problems. *** It is important that the student read the explanation section even if he or she understands the concept *** Background I began homeschooling DS in the middle of second grade. He is advanced, but not accelerated in math. He did Everyday Math in public school. At home, he did a combination of Primary Mathematics, Miquon, Beast Academy, and Math Mammoth plus a few other supplemental math books. By the end of fourth grade, he had completed MM5 and selected topics in MM6. He began AoPS Pre Algebra when he was 11 years old (fifth grade). He finished in a year and half (12 years old, sixth grade). Why I chose AoPS DS is good at mathematics and was easily bored by his elementary math programs. In primary math, he understood concepts easily, but gave up quickly when problems were challenging. I opted to use AoPS because I wanted to work on his problem-solving skills. I also wanted him to learn from being wrong. I admit that AoPS may not have been my son's choice at the beginning, but I was really enamored with the program (I questioned this decision multiple times through the past year and a half). Strengths The problem sets are excellent; I had a hard time finding an equivalent level of difficulty when DS needed additional practice. DS didn't spend hours working through equations that didn't vary much; he worked problems that required real thought. As he complained once, "These problems get hard quickly." Weaknesses Having read through AoPS Algebra, it's obvious this curriculum has a completely different tone. It seems much less conversational and more adult than Algebra (which is odd since this, being a prerequisite to Algebra, should have a more youthful voice). Oftentimes, the explanations use fifteen words when half the number would have been sufficient. In my opinion, the explanation sections of this book really need to be re-written to better serve its young customer base. How We Used AoPS For the first few chapters, we did buddy math. Since AoPS was completely different from anything DS had ever done before, we worked through example problems together. Next he'd read aloud the explanation part, then work through the section exercises, with me right by his side. After the first three chapters, he worked on his own. I never assigned problems; he just had a one hour time limit on math. DS did every problem: section, review, and challenge. For the challenge problems, I made myself available to provide assistance. I never told DS the answer outright when he needed help. I'd use guiding questions, trying to lead him to a strategy. If you opt to use AoPS, I'd recommend that you, as the teacher, work through Chapter 15 Problem Solving Strategies. This was the last chapter DS worked and once he reached it, I realized that I had already been teaching him these strategies when he was stuck. It's a good refresher for the parent. Ch 1 Properties of Arithmetic The biggest issue was DS was confused about "proving" concepts. He was uncertain about what this meant and what needed to be said. He was also confused by the "smiley" functions, proving the commutative and associative properties. Using a whiteboard, I showed him how functions can mean anything, even beyond the standard arithmetic +,-,*, and /. He had a bit of fun creating rocket, flower, and star functions and proving or disproving the commutative and associative properties. Ch 2 Exponents This chapter was the most difficult. For DS, perhaps it was that exponents were still fairly new compared to standard arithmetic, but he really had a tough time. I repeated often, "Multiplication is repeated addition; exponents are repeated multiplication. Write it down. Write it out. Simplify." Ch 3 Number Theory Here's where my son's arithmetic skills conflicted with his thinking skills. The mantra for this chapter was, "Don't be a computer. Be a thinker." We did take several brief breaks to work on prime factorization. DS would often compute first, before simplifying which caused much frustration. I purchased Lial's Pre-Algebra just to have additional problem sets for him to work through. It took him a long time to realize the benefits of simplifying before computing. Ch 4 Fractions This wasn't a difficult chapter for DS. Honestly it was a relief after the first three chapters. Ch 5 Equations and Inequalities This was more difficult than chapter four, but still not as bad as the first three. This chapter he really needed to check his work and ask himself if the solution made sense, especially with the reversal of signs for inequalities. Ch 6 Decimals No issues with this chapter. Ch 7 Ratios, Conversions, and Rates In this chapter, I had to take a few minutes to discuss with DS the relationship between fractions, decimals, and ratios. DS tended to forget that there were different ways to look at similar numbers. 1:3, 1/4, 0.25 are all the same number, but expressed in different ways. He did have some difficulty with rates that weren't expressed in terms of speed so I would encourage him to write out the problem. Ch 8 Percents No issues with this chapter other than we had a few conversations similar to the one above: 1:3, 1/4, 0.25 and 25% are all the same number. Ch 9 Square Roots He greatest difficulty with this chapter was understanding that x^(1/2) + x^(1/2) equals 2*x^(1/2), not x. We had to back up a bit and write out everything so he could prove to himself that this expression was true. Ch 10 Angles, Ch 11 Perimeter and Area, and Ch 12 Right Triangles and Quadrilaterals These chapters are grouped together because they passed quickly and required the same skills. The only note I had was that DS would often assume the pictures were drawn to scale, which is not an assumption he should make. Ch 13 Data and Statistics Another quick chapter. DS just had to make sure he wasn't making assumptions based on information that wasn't there. Ch 14 Counting As the second to last chapter, DS struggled a bit. I think because it was his first true exposure to probability. He could easily figure out the likelihood of rolling a one on a six-sided die. He could determine the probability of rolling two ones on two six-sided dice. Where he got confused was probability for separate cases, as in the likelihood of one penny and two pennies showing the same number of heads. Ch 15 Problem-Solving Strategies An easier chapter that DS flew through, except for the challenge problems, which are tough. Final Thoughts Looking back, I'm content with our experience even though I had many doubts through the past 18 months. After Chapter 5, I showed DS Lial's pre-algebra and asked him if he wanted to switch. He said no; he liked the challenge and "at least Art of Problem Solving is never boring." For Algebra, I gave DS the option between Forrester's and AoPS and he wants to continue with AoPS. Talk to me in a year and I may have a different opinion ;) Like many other members have said, AoPS is not for everyone. For my dd, I'm pretty sure I'll use something other than AoPS. She would struggle with the uncertainty and find the frustration demoralizing. But AoPS worked for my DS in pre-algebra and I'm hoping it will continue to work for him in Algebra. ETA: Corrected some wording

Hi all, I thought I would share some good news with you. According to Maria, she is preparing to release her newest MM Pre-Algebra this Fall. In response to my question about it's progress which I have been following she stated: Hello Derek, Yes, there's progress. :-) Part 7-A (the first half) should be available in late August, as a download. Sincerely, Maria Miller

Hello there, I have never used MUS before. I used RightStart A - C with my son and then Singapore through 6B for the rest of the years. He is now grade 8 and someone gave me MUS Pre-algebra complete package. I'd love to make use of this free blessing but I am not sure I can. With RightStart for instance, you can't just start using it if you've never used it before. You have to do transition lessons to get you thinking and doing math in the "RightStart way". Is this the case for MUS too? Doesn't he need to learn to use the rods and stuff first? Or could we jump right in to the Pre-Algebra program without problems? opinions would be great! Thank you so much. Originally I was planning to do Video Text this year. I could still sell this program and get Video Text but I'm not sure if MUS might end up being a good match for us after all? Thanks!

I just bought dh an early Christmas present--the Dolciani Pre-Algebra 1985/1988 Teacher's Edition. I think it will be his favorite gift of the year. Thank you for indulging my telling that bit of news. You people are the only ones I know in the whole world who can share my joy. :laugh: Anyway... Are there any pre-algebra topics either not covered well enough or entirely missing in Dolciani? Since it is such an old textbook, I am wondering if we may need to supplement it. Or else... Does anyone know of a thorough scope and sequence for Pre-Algebra which I could compare to the Dolciani table of contents? TIA, math friends.

Hi everyone - I purchased the Fred Pre-algebra series for my almost 10 year-old dd. She is about 1/2 way through the Physics book and I do not like the look of the Pre-algebra 2 with Economics book, so I have decided not to use it. I estimate that she will be finished with the Pre-algebra 1 with Biology book by February. My question is, where should we go from there before she takes Algebra? Jousting Armadillos and the other books in that series look good. I also have Fred Algebra (my older daughter is using that now) and Jacobs Algebra on my shelf, as well as Jacobs Mathematics a Human Endeavor. Do you see a natural progression from Fred Pre-algebra 1 to anything that I have, or should I bite the bullet and buy JA? Should I just get that now and switch her to that instead of Fred if I am not going to have her do the Fred Pre-algebra 2? In the past, we have used Fred for summer review - this is the first time we have used it for the main math. Should I get the JA now and then use Fred just for summer review again? I hate second guessing myself after we have started something! I appreciate any thoughts. Thanks! Kristin

So, we took the plunge and are using Tabletclass this year (thanks, Derek!). We decided to start midway through Pre-A as we didn't finish Dolciani last year, and I heard Tabletclass was advanced. Boy, was that spot on! My son started at Chapter 6, Graphing Linear Equations (there are 15 chapters in the course). He had covered this a bit last year, but not really. So far, we both really like the class. The videos are very clear, and when my son gets a question wrong, having the videos that work out the questions step by step is very helpful. He can really see exactly where he made his mistake. John Z manages to present fairly complicated subject matter clearly-my son basically does the work independently because John's explanations are very clear. I will continue to update as we go, but so far, I am very pleased with Tabletclass--I wish we had used it last year.

Hi all, I just wanted to give you a quick heads up that today is the last day of the best sale they have had so far at half off regular prices. According to an email I got the sales ends at midnight tonight. http://homeschoolmathonline.com/sales-page/

I've tried to search for it but couldn't find the link to the online version of Dolciani Pre-Algebra. Can anybody point me in the right direction?

... this is for Button, who isn't the fastest writer but is perfectly WILLING to show his work. He can do the AoPS pre-algebra placement test, and we're about to wrap up SM 4B; he is extremely good with math concepts. I'll probably do the AoPS pre-A sooner or later with him, so could purchase the next round of SM and also the AoPS book; but I'm trying to spend carefully. Ideas? ... and thanks!

My son is struggling with math. We dropped saxon 7/6 and he is currently doing Life of Fred pre-algebra with bio and loving it! He LOVES LoF. The issue is he's not getting enough practice, I'm finding lots of holes, and his retention is dismal. He frustrates very easily which doesn't help the metter. Do you think adding MUS pre-algebra in with it will be a good solution? I've never done MUS but it's coming highly recommended by my friends here. It's what I'm planning to use with my third grader as well--who is currently loving LOF Apples after homework. Any other suggestions? I thought of just supplementing here and there as needed, but it looks like he needs a more complete curriculum.

Page 2A problem 8 In the video Mr. D said the order of operation is: parentheses, exponents, multiply, divide, add, subtract. The problem reads: 18 divided by 2 times 5 plus 6. Dd did the 2x5=10, 18/10=1.8, then added the 6 for 7.8 The answer in the book says the answer is 51 by dividing 18 by 2 then multiplying the 9 by 5 and adding 6. What say the Hive? And if one is to divide first in that problem (after the instructions clearly state to multiply before dividing) how do I explain it do dd?

I'll start with a bunch I'm aware of. If anyone wants to comment on a program they've used, it would be most helpful. Chalkdust Teaching Textbooks Life of Fred Lial's Basic College Mathematics Lial's Pre-algebra Math-U-See Dolciani Thinkwell Art of Problem Solving Discovering Mathematics Saxon 8/7 CLE 7 Pre-Algebra Concepts (Mastering Essential Math Skills) Horizons BJU Abeka Kinetic Books What am I missing? Anyone have a love on this list?

For those people whose kids have done MM through levels 5 and 6, how did it go? Did your kids find it pretty challenging? I keep reading that some kids are able to jump from MM 6 into algebra. This makes it sound like MM is ahead or challenging. My 10yo son is bright and hasn't had any previous trouble with math (we've been doing MM since 2nd grade). His mental math is better than mine (and I was always good at math). I would say he might be slightly above average in math. But MM 5 is giving him a pretty hard time. We are repeating lessons and we're only on Chapter 1. I am not opposed to switching to something else but I don't want to wait long if I'm going to do it. So can anyone tell me, does it get better? Or are the last levels of MM this challenging throughout? If your child has completed MM 5 or 6, are they pretty "mathy"? Thanks for any help.

I've recently created a list of options we've tried for mathematical learning after Singapore 6B. With two accelerated learners, this happened quickly, and I thought it might be helpful to share the (many) paths we've taken and considered. I'd appreciate any additions (add to the comment section). I hope this is helpful to someone out there.