Is this normal 8 year old behavior?

[joannqn]

Are we expecting too much?

 

Things my 8 year old does:

 

He's taking forever leaving the pool of our hotel, so I start walking for the door and he lets out a loud, screeching cry about being left behind. At 8, I would have been extremely embarrassed to do this in front of other kids.

 

He does the same crying bit at another public place over being asked to do something one time. He explained that he was upset over me being too impatient.

 

He pushes his 3 year old brother off the couch onto the hard wood floor. His response is that his brother hit him first.

 

He decides he doesn't like a boy he's just met for the first time because he was being loud and didn't stop being loud when DS asked him to.

 

He decides he doesn't want to play with another kid because that kid doesn't want to play what he wants to play. This particular thing happens nearly every time he gets together with other kids, or goes to a park. He ends up playing by himself. Yet, he complains about not having any friends.

[simka2]

I have 2 8yr old boys who do some of those things, but not all. Whenever my kids try to use their public behavior to manipulate or get away with things they normally wouldn't I make sure that their punishment is double. Meaning they will loose 10min of pool time for not immediately getting out when asked...and they will go to bed 30min early for reacting the way they did in public.

 

The friend thing is something we have never allowed. I would talk pretty severly with them about judging others and not assumeing the best about someone. I would ask questions of them like "Why do you think they were loud?" "Why do you think they wouldn't listen?" "Are you the boss of that person?" "Could they be haveing an off day?"

 

I also don't tolerate the "I don't have anyone to play with" stuff. I was an only child and often didn't have someone to play with. Or I will ask them "what have you done to reach out and be a friend?"

 

I'm writing this thinking..."WOW! I am a mean mom!!!" I have more of a problem with triangulation between the twins and one neiborhood kid.

 

We have had some problem with them hurting the 4yr old, but again it's dealt with swiftly. Right now I am having more problems with the 4yr old lashing out and thinking he can get away with it because he's the baby. ERRRRGH!!!!

 

Good luck! Sorry I cannot be more help!

[abbeyej]

Hm, the only one that I would expect of my 8yo is deciding she doesn't like someone based on his (or her) initial loudness. ;) Dd would totally do that, sigh. ... I don't *think* ds would have done any of that at 8...

 

The other stuff? It's not exactly red flag territory for me, but I wouldn't describe it as typical of the age either. Does that make sense?

[mktkcb]

OK, here are some thoughts. My son is very similar.....was very much like your ds at age 8, now at age 13 is *better*, but still struggles with some things. Very immature. Non existant frustration tolerance. I've known for awhile that he is mildly spd. Is is possible that your son could have some of that going on? I tend to deal with one thing at a time, as patiently as possible. My ds *still* does things that are embarrassing in public, sigh. I have to be very concrete with him. If you are noticing patterns (and it seems you are), alert him ahead of time. "if you don't get out of the pool right away, you'll be sitting for X minutes next time we come, before you can get in. Ditto for screaming/carrying on...whatever". "If you hurt your brother, you must do X,Y, and Z to show kindness as restitution" (do follow up on his brother hitting him also, though). As far as "not liking" the boy because he was being loud...mmmm...my son gets a bit irrational at times about such things as well. I'm not always sure how to handle that. As for the "I'll only play if they play what I want" thing, I think I'd talk beforehand, and let him know that it is mandatory for him to play at least 1 thing that someone else wants to play. Let him know that if he isn't willing to do that, then he can SIT with you. Not play by himself. I'm constantly reminding my ds still to make sure (when he's at a party or group thing) to play whatever the others want to play/do. So.....I guess I would say do LOTS of forewarning/pre event teaching with rewards/consequences/expectations laid out ahead of time. Just make a habit of it. Then follow through as much as possible. Get over being embarrassed...don't let it make you angry. Calm, calm, calm. reteach reteach reteach.....ad nauseum :o). Pinpoint trouble areas, and plan.

[Jean in Newcastle]

OK, here are some thoughts. My son is very similar.....was very much like your ds at age 8, now at age 13 is *better*, but still struggles with some things. Very immature. Non existant frustration tolerance. I've known for awhile that he is mildly spd. Is is possible that your son could have some of that going on? I tend to deal with one thing at a time, as patiently as possible. My ds *still* does things that are embarrassing in public, sigh. I have to be very concrete with him. If you are noticing patterns (and it seems you are), alert him ahead of time. "if you don't get out of the pool right away, you'll be sitting for X minutes next time we come, before you can get in. Ditto for screaming/carrying on...whatever". "If you hurt your brother, you must do X,Y, and Z to show kindness as restitution" (do follow up on his brother hitting him also, though). As far as "not liking" the boy because he was being loud...mmmm...my son gets a bit irrational at times about such things as well. I'm not always sure how to handle that. As for the "I'll only play if they play what I want" thing, I think I'd talk beforehand, and let him know that it is mandatory for him to play at least 1 thing that someone else wants to play. Let him know that if he isn't willing to do that, then he can SIT with you. Not play by himself. I'm constantly reminding my ds still to make sure (when he's at a party or group thing) to play whatever the others want to play/do. So.....I guess I would say do LOTS of forewarning/pre event teaching with rewards/consequences/expectations laid out ahead of time. Just make a habit of it. Then follow through as much as possible. Get over being embarrassed...don't let it make you angry. Calm, calm, calm. reteach reteach reteach.....ad nauseum :o). Pinpoint trouble areas, and plan.

 

Exactly - ds (almost 13) is like this too.

[Dawn in OH]

 

He decides he doesn't want to play with another kid because that kid doesn't want to play what he wants to play. This particular thing happens nearly every time he gets together with other kids, or goes to a park. He ends up playing by himself. Yet, he complains about not having any friends.

 

I think this one is perfectly normal. My two older children and all the kids in the homeschool group we interact with do this one. Seems like a normal kid thing to me.

 

Before anyone says it, I know it's not right, but it does seem fairly normal for the age.

[Momof1plustwins]

OK, I've known for awhile that he is mildly spd. Is is possible that your son could have some of that going on?

 

What do you mean by spd?

 

This sounds alot like my son. I have 6yo twins who are much more mature than my 9yo. I have to get after 9yo a lot more. I can usually tell the twins something one time and they listen. Not with 9yo. It's very frustrating and I worry about him.

 

He complains about not having more friends but when we put him in scouts, he decided within a few weeks that he didn't want to go anymore.

 

He must be in control of what games are being played. Compromise isn't something he is willing to do. He would rather manipulate others into changing their minds. I feel bad for venting like this, but there are times when I feel like I'll explode if I don't vent a little!:banghead:

[Jan in SC]

My sons are 7, 8, and 10. None of them would cry about that in public. They would be very embarrassed. However, they wouldn't think about "fighting" with a brother in public. For some reason they cannot be convinced that fighting in public should embarrass them!!

 

If they had a 3 year old brother I'm sure they would find a reason to push him off the couch. Two minutes later they would all be best friends. (That might last 20 minutes!)

 

They would make snap judgements about other children. Two would dislike the loud kid and one would want to be his best friend.

 

All of them are pretty adaptable to groups, though. Even if they disliked the loud child, they would still be pretty inviting to him.

[abbeyej]

He decides he doesn't want to play with another kid because that kid doesn't want to play what he wants to play. This particular thing happens nearly every time he gets together with other kids, or goes to a park. He ends up playing by himself. Yet, he complains about not having any friends.

 

I think this one is perfectly normal. My two older children and all the kids in the homeschool group we interact with do this one. Seems like a normal kid thing to me.

 

Before anyone says it, I know it's not right, but it does seem fairly normal for the age.

 

I think it's normal for this to happen on occasion among children this age. I would not expect it to happen regularly. By age eight, most kids have learned that they can't dictate what and how to play at all times. They may occasionally walk away, but more often they find ways to coordinate play with at least some of the others present in a group.

 

I would be concerned if this were happening every time a certain group of kids got together (concerned about the group dynamic), or every time a certain child tries to play with others (as in the case of the OP).

 

Sure, *some* of this is just part of learning to play with others. And there are times when *all* of us decide that we are unwilling to accept the dictates of a group and that we'd rather not participate. Those are both important lessons. ... But by 8, I'd expect a child to be able to do both.

[joannqn]

I don't know how to word my follow up thoughts to your comments.

 

I feel that we are hard on him, and that we have to be.

 

The crying thing is new. My initial gut is that he's reacting to getting in trouble on a regular basis for similar situations. It feels like he doesn't know how to react or behave in these situations despite being told repeatedly, gets in trouble repeatedly, and then freaks out when he thinks he's going to get in trouble but hasn't done anything this time to get in trouble. Does that make any sense?

 

For example, we'll tell him to do something and he'll sit there and just stare at us rather than getting up and doing what he was told. Or we'll tell him to do something and he'll do something totally unrelated to what we asked him to do. Like we'll ask him to let the dog in (who's scratching at the back door) and he'll go turn off the light in the bathroom. When he's questioned about it, he'll walk to the front door and let the cat out. Meanwhile, the dog is still scratching at the back door, and we're wondering if our child has a brain. Fast forward a bit and this exact same scenario plays out multiple times with him repeatedly being talked to, put in time out, losing privileges, etc. for not listening to us. Then one day, the scenario begins but instead of staring at us, he freaks out and panics. Now instead of just sitting there, he's doing what he was told as if the world is going to end if it isn't completed in .2 seconds...and hopefully he doesn't break something or someone that gets in his way because he's so wound up that he doesn't notice what he's doing or where he's going.

 

So, this weekend when I said it was time to go, waited for a while for him to comply (the other kids were waiting too), told him to get his stuff, waited some more, and then started to walk out, he freaked out and started this screechy, crying thing at me. It's like he's frustrated, angry, and scared all at the same time. I'm standing there wondering just how hard is it to slide your feet into flip flops and pick up a pool noodle and squirt gun, and does it really warrant a meltdown.

 

I think he's trying to be a good boy who obeys but just doesn't know how.

 

Then there's his relationship with is little brother, which isn't good. Little brother will ask him to put in a certain movie and he'll take that movie out of his hands, put it away, pull out a different movie, and put the different movie in the player and wonder why his brother his getting upset.

 

The friend thing seems to be getting better. He finally found a good friend recently only to have her move away. He's doing ok with two neighborhood boys. He seemed to play ok with newlifemom's kids. I'm less worried about that because he's slowly getting it. He still prefers to talk to adults and still prefers to talk about math or something he's learned in school. He doesn't make eye contact much, makes weird gestures, and emphasizes words in a strange way. But he's playing with other kids finally.

[simka2]

Oh sweeetie it sounds like you have your hands full! I wanted to say that although those are not typical in our family...I deal with some other end of the spectrum issues. Sometimes, I think the twins have mild adhd...like tonight one ds could not sit at the table...I mean literally would take a bite and get up and walk around the room...get sent back to his seat only to get right back up and walk around again...ERRRGH!

 

My 9 yr old dd used to do the spacey/panicky thing...sorry I don't have a better word. I learned to pick up on that sort of spaced out look on her face and the moment she took a step in the opposite direction of where I asked her to go I would physically grab her and turn her in the direction she was supposed to go. With the panicky stuff we had to teach her that firstly, panicing doesn't help her...and 2nd taught her ways to cope...deep breathes things like that.

 

Just wanted you to know I was still thinkin' of you! :)

[Ottakee]

With all of this added information, I might wonder about Aspergers, sensory issues, possibly petit mal seizures, or a processing disorder. If this was my child I would likely seek out a professional evaluation as many of these things are easier to treat the early to address them.

 

I It feels like he doesn't know how to react or behave in these situations despite being told repeatedly, gets in trouble repeatedly, and then freaks out when he thinks he's going to get in trouble but hasn't done anything this time to get in trouble. Does that make any sense?

 

 

I think he's trying to be a good boy who obeys but just doesn't know how.

 

I'm less worried about that because he's slowly getting it. He still prefers to talk to adults and still prefers to talk about math or something he's learned in school. He doesn't make eye contact much, makes weird gestures, and emphasizes words in a strange way. But he's playing with other kids finally.

[mktkcb]

sorry.....Sensory Processing Disorder, also called Sensory Integration Dysfunction. You can google it and get boatloads of info.

[ktgrok]

That sounds like issues with working memory. I'm having the same issue with my son. Having him repeat back what I asked him to do helps a LOT. It's amazing how many times he really doesn't know what I just said. And his reactions are identical to your son's. I think it must be so frustrating to them!!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

For example, we'll tell him to do something and he'll sit there and just stare at us rather than getting up and doing what he was told. Or we'll tell him to do something and he'll do something totally unrelated to what we asked him to do. Like we'll ask him to let the dog in (who's scratching at the back door) and he'll go turn off the light in the bathroom. When he's questioned about it, he'll walk to the front door and let the cat out. Meanwhile, the dog is still scratching at the back door, and we're wondering if our child has a brain. Fast forward a bit and this exact same scenario plays out multiple times with him repeatedly being talked to, put in time out, losing privileges, etc. for not listening to us. Then one day, the scenario begins but instead of staring at us, he freaks out and panics. Now instead of just sitting there, he's doing what he was told as if the world is going to end if it isn't completed in .2 seconds...and hopefully he doesn't break something or someone that gets in his way because he's so wound up that he doesn't notice what he's doing or where he's going.

 

 

 

Have you asked him to repeat what you've asked him to do? "Son, let in the dog. Repeat back to me, what I asked you to do."

[blessed2fosteradopt]

Almost all of the behaviors you describe are identical to ones exhibited by my bf's son that has Aspergers. The last paragraph of your most recent reply especially describes him. He was diagnosed at age 7 and is now 12. You might want to do some research and maybe contact your pediatrician.

 

I hope that you get the answers you are searching for.

 

Blessings,

 

Lisa

[Misty]

JoAnn,

I've mentioned to you before (maybe last year?) that it sounds like your son is Asperger-ish. This thread really makes me think it even more. Isn't he also a math whiz? He sounds very Aspie to me.

[abbeyej]

Oh, ((Joann))... I agree with Ottakee on this... Now, with more information, there *are* some red flags. And it does sound like you're dealing with something ... more ... with him. What exactly, I couldn't say. But something worth exploring, whether it's spectrum-related, something neurological...

[joannqn]

I'll ask the ped about it at his next appt later this month.

[helena]

Are we expecting too much?

 

Things my 8 year old does:

 

He's taking forever leaving the pool of our hotel, so I start walking for the door and he lets out a loud, screeching cry about being left behind. At 8, I would have been extremely embarrassed to do this in front of other kids.

 

He does the same crying bit at another public place over being asked to do something one time. He explained that he was upset over me being too impatient.

 

He pushes his 3 year old brother off the couch onto the hard wood floor. His response is that his brother hit him first.

 

He decides he doesn't like a boy he's just met for the first time because he was being loud and didn't stop being loud when DS asked him to.

 

He decides he doesn't want to play with another kid because that kid doesn't want to play what he wants to play. This particular thing happens nearly every time he gets together with other kids, or goes to a park. He ends up playing by himself. Yet, he complains about not having any friends.

 

Darn, I saw "Is this normal 8 yo behavior? and the word hotel". I thought oh, yay! My kids not the only one! We walked into a hotel room last month, and my 8yo yelled out hooray, jumped on the bed and licked it!! I just keep thinking, that is not normal yet so typical (of her style).

I don't know what normal is anymore. :)

 

FWIW my 8 yo just had a mini noisy melt down in public. It surprised me that she was willing to do it in public, it's been a while. She's on the young side though, and she's struggling to find her place as the youngest who wants to be big, but likes to be little.

 

She does have Tourette Syndrome, which frightened her when it started. We've been working very hard to be consistent with expectations, and show lots of patience for her need to be near mama (and occasional digressing into toddlerish behavior).

 

I hope you find some answers soon, not knowing is the worst. Once you have the facts, it's so much easier to find solutions.

:grouphug:

[Alessandra]

My first thought was that the behavior was not 'typical' (my word for 'normal', because atypical sounds better than abnormal).

 

One thought -- a diagnosis can depend upon the doctor/other professional you see. Same child, different diagnoses. So, if your gut is telling you there is something to be concerned about, don't necessarily take no for an answer.

 

Also, many kids can have more than one diagnosis -- a child on the autism spectrum could also have issues with auditory processing or sensory processing, for example.

 

It must be hard for you, I know, especially if well meaning IRL friends or relatives tell to "just" be stricter or kinder or more consistent or more flexible.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Alessandra

[sbgrace]

Just agreeing with others that a lot of it rings true with my son who does have issues. He's got an autism spectrum diagnosis.

 

FWIW, The Nurtured Heart Approach by Glasser has been wonderful for him parenting wise. I read the book "All Children Flourishing" not his original book. Fits Andrew like a glove and in fact he needs it. I'm wondering if your son does too.