Comma Usage and Analytical Grammar

[TechWife]

Why does this curriculum teach that a comma should be placed before the word "and" in a list? When my husband and I were in school we were taught that this is incorrect.

 

An example from Analytical Grammar, Unit 18:

John, Uncle Hank, Aunt Jean, and Anne went to church.

 

If I had written the sentence, I would have done it this way:

John, Uncle Hank, Aunt Jean and Anne went to church.

 

Shurley Grammar taught the way that I do it. BJU teaches the same way that AG teaches. I have always taught my son the way I learned it & at this point I would need a really good reason to change. So, does anyone have a really good reason I should change the way I teach comma usage in a list?

[mo2]

I couldn't tell you "why," but I just wanted to say that I have always been taught that way (with the comma before the "and" in a list of 3 or more). Maybe it's a subjective style issue?

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Why does this curriculum teach that a comma should be placed before the word "and" in a list? When my husband and I were in school we were taught that this is incorrect.

 

An example from Analytical Grammar, Unit 18:

John, Uncle Hank, Aunt Jean, and Anne went to church.

 

If I had written the sentence, I would have done it this way:

John, Uncle Hank, Aunt Jean and Anne went to church.

 

Shurley Grammar taught the way that I do it. BJU teaches the same way that AG teaches. I have always taught my son the way I learned it & at this point I would need a really good reason to change. So, does anyone have a really good reason I should change the way I teach comma usage in a list?

 

We used BJU this year and before, but are switching for next year. I was taught the same way you were, but my dh was taught you put a comma before the word and:confused:

 

I told my dd that BJU is wrong (no stones please) and she does it the way I was taught! I asked my 15 year old niece who is in PS and they are still teaching no comma before and. Just doesnt make sense!

[ekarl2]

That comma is called the "auxiliary comma." It is a style thing. We chose to teach it since, unless a student is writing in a journalism style, you can never be wrong when using it. It is possible to confuse your reader if you leave it out.

 

Newspapers dropped it because it takes up space. It's the same reason that newspaper writers only put one space after a period. That's advertising space that could be sold! LOL

[razorbackmama]

That comma is called the "auxiliary comma." It is a style thing. We chose to teach it since, unless a student is writing in a journalism style, you can never be wrong when using it. It is possible to confuse your reader if you leave it out.

 

And oh boy howdy have I been confused many a time by that comma being left out!

 

I was always taught that it was optional but that having one was "more" correct. I have to admit I'm seeing the comma less and less, and it drives. me. in. sane.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

We used BJU this year and before, but are switching for next year. I was taught the same way you were, but my dh was taught you put a comma before the word and:confused:

 

I told my dd that BJU is wrong (no stones please) and she does it the way I was taught! I asked my 15 year old niece who is in PS and they are still teaching no comma before and. Just doesnt make sense!

 

I was taught to use the comma b/f the and. When Shurley taught my daughter to leave it out, I told her that Shurley was wrong. :001_huh:

[razorbackmama]

I was taught to use the comma b/f the and. When Shurley taught my daughter to leave it out, I told her that Shurley was wrong. :001_huh:

 

I would have, too!

[JudyJudyJudy]

And oh boy howdy have I been confused many a time by that comma being left out!

 

I was always taught that it was optional but that having one was "more" correct. I have to admit I'm seeing the comma less and less, and it drives. me. in. sane.

I totally agree. There are times when I find it difficult to understand a sentence when the comma is not used, and I have to reread the sentence to understand it.

[Corraleno]

I used to work in publishing, and pretty much everyone in the US (except newspaper publishers) uses the serial comma:

The Chicago Manual of Style, Strunk and White's Elements of Style, most authorities on American English and Canadian English, and some authorities on British English (for example, Oxford University Press and Fowler's Modern English Usage) recommend the use of the serial comma. Newspaper style guides (such as those published by The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, the Associated Press, The Times newspaper in the United Kingdom, and the Canadian Press) recommend against it, possibly for economy of space...

 

The style that always uses the serial comma may be less likely to result in ambiguity. Consider the possibly apocryphal book dedication quoted by Teresa Nielsen Hayden: To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

:lol:

 

The MLA Style Manual uses the serial comma, so students should be taught to use it since most colleges and universities follow MLA guidelines.

 

Jackie

[Marie in Oh]

but using the auxilary comma is more correct than laving it out. I was trained ala Strunk and White and thus use the comma.

[Peela]

Australian and British grammar do not use the comma, officially, so we have always had to disagree with U.S. programs that insist on it.

[Laura Corin]

The style that always uses the serial comma may be less likely to result in ambiguity. Consider the possibly apocryphal book dedication quoted by Teresa Nielsen Hayden: To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

 

Those of us who don't use the 'Oxford' comma do include it if there is any ambiguity.

 

Laura

[Karen in CO]

The style that always uses the serial comma may be less likely to result in ambiguity. Consider the possibly apocryphal book dedication quoted by Teresa Nielsen Hayden: To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

 

Those of us who don't use the 'Oxford' comma do include it if there is any ambiguity.

 

Laura

:D

That is a terrific example of ambiguity caused by not using it. I had been taught to use it but have for years been trying to learn to not use it. Now, I will ponder commas the rest of the day.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Karen in CO

[Guest]

:D

That is a terrific example of ambiguity caused by not using it. I had been taught to use it, but have for years been trying to learn to not use it. Now, I will ponder commas the rest of the day.

 

That is a great example. I was always taught to use it - severely marked down when I didn't. I have been wondering about it, too, especially since lately I've been having that come up in my daily writing. I think I'm going to have to do some un-schooling to myself, as well.

[Jim]

I had to laugh at this one. My wife and I discuss this issue often. She was taught to leave the comma out. I was taught (by the nuns) to use the comma. I was pleased to see our hs material used the comma and I use that frequently during our discussions.

 

I look at it this way, the comma ensures that the readers knows you're talking about different items and that the last two should not be lumped into a single item. I picture it like a math expression, 2+2x2 vs. 2+(2x2) could have very different results. The comma, like the "()" offers clarity. can't mark you wrong for that, can they? Actually, with the effort to get rid of commas they probably will mark me down.

[Amy Jo]

:D

That is a terrific example of ambiguity caused by not using it. I had been taught to use it but have for years been trying to learn to not use it. Now, I will ponder commas the rest of the day.

 

:iagree: (I'm reading "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" and I was pondering this very question. Thanks to the OP for asking.)

[ekarl2]

The style that always uses the serial comma may be less likely to result in ambiguity. Consider the possibly apocryphal book dedication quoted by Teresa Nielsen Hayden: To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

 

Those of us who don't use the 'Oxford' comma do include it if there is any ambiguity.

 

Laura

 

Laura, this is a FANTASTIC example sentence! Mine is usually about sandwiches:

 

The sandwiches I enjoy are ham and cheese, peanut butter and jelly and tomato and mozzarella.

[Jean in Wisc]

I have settled on using the comma before 'and' unless they are a pair.

 

"What kind of sandwiches do you have?

 

"We have egg salad, turkey, ham, and cheese."

 

or

 

"We have egg salad, turkey, and ham and cheese."

 

 

"Ham and cheese" is one sandwich with both; "ham, and cheese" are two sandwiches with either ham or cheese, not both. I teach them to use the comma to say what they mean.

 

:001_smile:

[razorbackmama]

I have settled on using the comma before 'and' unless they are a pair.

 

"What kind of sandwiches do you have?

 

"We have egg salad, turkey, ham, and cheese."

 

or

 

"We have egg salad, turkey, and ham and cheese."

 

 

"Ham and cheese" is one sandwich with both; "ham, and cheese" are two sandwiches with either ham or cheese, not both. I teach them to use the comma to say what they mean.

 

:001_smile:

 

Yep. I'm in college right now, and my instructor apparently was taught to NOT use commas. On our Powerpoint slides we were told a receiving report should go to "Accounting, Requesting and Purchasing." I thought, "Hm, is Requesting and Purchasing the name of one department or two?" I finally figured out that it was two when I read that a purchase order should go to "Supplier, Requesting, Purchasing and Accounting."

 

Yep. Lack of commas before that "and" DRIVES ME BONKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JennyW]

 

razorbackmama you are a kindred spirit! I have to use the comma before the and, and it drives me nuts when people leave it out. It messes with my sense of order, and can confuse the meaning of a sentence. Unfortunately, I write for some people that go by the AP stylebook and I have to leave it out in my writing. It pains me each time.

[LizzyBee]

Why does this curriculum teach that a comma should be placed before the word "and" in a list? When my husband and I were in school we were taught that this is incorrect.

 

An example from Analytical Grammar, Unit 18:

John, Uncle Hank, Aunt Jean, and Anne went to church.

 

If I had written the sentence, I would have done it this way:

John, Uncle Hank, Aunt Jean and Anne went to church.

 

Shurley Grammar taught the way that I do it. BJU teaches the same way that AG teaches. I have always taught my son the way I learned it & at this point I would need a really good reason to change. So, does anyone have a really good reason I should change the way I teach comma usage in a list?

 

My school taught us to use the comma before the and, and I've taught my kids to use it. I hate reading an author that doesn't use it, because I often have to read those sentences twice to get the meaning.